🚀 go-pugleaf

From article <725595649.AA02229@illusion.tpg.org>, by Mark.Kraml@f250.n514.z17.illusion.tpg.org (Mark Kraml):
> 
> .....
> nous avons tous le meme access a l'education......

NON! Nous n'avons pas tous le meme access a l'education!  :-(((((

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
References: <726336901.AA04023@illusion.tpg.org>
Message-ID: <1993Jan8.094325.12527@spxtech.qc.ca>
X-Bytes: 3481
Subject: Re: Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties
Lines: 93
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
Newsgroups: mtl.followup
Path: steven
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:43:25 GMT

From article <726336901.AA04023@illusion.tpg.org>, by Yvon.Decelles@f420.n514.z17.illusion.tpg.org (Yvon Decelles):
> Hello Steve,
> 

Hello.

> 
> Your previous message about Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties said
> 

Don't forget, I said the fact that para 23(1)(a) is not applicable in Quebec
and chapter vii of Bill 101 ...

>  SP> make it legally possible for about 12,000 English speaking children in
>  SP> this province to be DENIED access to education in their own language
>  SP> schools. (If the parents attempt to obtain their certificate of 
>  SP> eligibility for instruction in English the children are actually
>  SP> "declare' ineligible pour l'instruction en anglaise" !!!!)
> 
>  ???
> 
>  You are misinformed,

No I'm not.

>  My children are now in english shool, I personaly
>  NEVER attended english school but my wife did. 

Was your wife a resident in Quebec before 26th August, 1977?

Was your wife educated in english in Canada?

> All that was required is that she bring a proof that she attended
> at least one full year in  english elementary school when we went
> to register my child.

WRONG!!!!!!!

One must also prove that one of the parents was educated in english IN
CANADA or else was educated in english elsewhere (for most of the first
7 grades - excluding kindergarten) but was a resident of Quebec before
26th August, 1977!!!!!!!!!

People who landed here after 26th August, 1977 (whether they have 
bothered to obtain their Canadian citizenship or not) can NOT send
their children to English schools in Quebec even if they were educated
in English for their entire lives!

If you got your "Certificate of eligibility for instruction in
English" for your child and your wife was not educated in english in Canada
or was educated in english elsewhere but was not a resident of Quebec
before 26th August 1977 - I (and about 10,000 others perhaps) would like
to know where you got it so we can get around this law too! (Email me so
we can all go get our eligibility certificates too! :-) )

> 
>  Perhaps less propaganda and more truth is what we need Hmmm?
> 

Absolutely!!!

Why don't you read sections 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms, paragraph 59 of the Constitution, and chapter viii of Bill 101?

>  SP> Hardly a demonstration of open-mindedness and tolerance! :-(
>  
>  The only demonstration here is your wilingness to believe anything said
>  to you.

Apparently, you are the one who is sadly misinformed.

> As I said, that is simply NOT the case and I have here my child
> as a living proof of that.

It IS the case and if your family has obtained your child's eligibility
certificate illegally perhaps you should keep quiet about it before one
of Quebec's language cops finds out about it and has your child transferred
to a French school!

I think that you have probably not understood the restrictions as they
applied outside of your own families experience. A simple read of the
appropriate legislation should help to straighten things out for you.
I would happy to send you some information on the subject if you would
really like to be accurately informed before speaking on the subject
again.

OK?
-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven@spxtech.qc.ca                       |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Message-ID: <1993Jan8.094809.12668@spxtech.qc.ca>
Path: steven
X-Bytes: 3616
Lines: 98
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:48:09 GMT
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
Newsgroups: mtl.general,can.politics

From vn Fri Jan  8 09:43:26 1993
Subject: Re: Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties
References: <726336901.AA04023@illusion.tpg.org>

From article <726336901.AA04023@illusion.tpg.org>, by Yvon.Decelles@f420.n514.z17.illusion.tpg.org (Yvon Decelles):
> Hello Steve,
> 

Hello.

> 
> Your previous message about Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties said
> 

Don't forget, I said the fact that para 23(1)(a) is not applicable in Quebec
and chapter vii of Bill 101 ...

>  SP> make it legally possible for about 12,000 English speaking children in
>  SP> this province to be DENIED access to education in their own language
>  SP> schools. (If the parents attempt to obtain their certificate of 
>  SP> eligibility for instruction in English the children are actually
>  SP> "declare' ineligible pour l'instruction en anglaise" !!!!)
> 
>  ???
> 
>  You are misinformed,

No I'm not.

>  My children are now in english shool, I personaly
>  NEVER attended english school but my wife did. 

Was your wife a resident in Quebec before 26th August, 1977?

Was your wife educated in english in Canada?

> All that was required is that she bring a proof that she attended
> at least one full year in  english elementary school when we went
> to register my child.

WRONG!!!!!!!

One must also prove that one of the parents was educated in english IN
CANADA or else was educated in english elsewhere (for most of the first
7 grades - excluding kindergarten) but was a resident of Quebec before
26th August, 1977!!!!!!!!!

People who landed here after 26th August, 1977 (whether they have 
bothered to obtain their Canadian citizenship or not) can NOT send
their children to English schools in Quebec even if they were educated
in English for their entire lives!

If you got your "Certificate of eligibility for instruction in
English" for your child and your wife was not educated in english in Canada
or was educated in english elsewhere but was not a resident of Quebec
before 26th August 1977 - I (and about 10,000 others perhaps) would like
to know where you got it so we can get around this law too! (Email me so
we can all go get our eligibility certificates too! :-) )

> 
>  Perhaps less propaganda and more truth is what we need Hmmm?
> 

Absolutely!!!

Why don't you read sections 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms, paragraph 59 of the Constitution, and chapter viii of Bill 101?

>  SP> Hardly a demonstration of open-mindedness and tolerance! :-(
>  
>  The only demonstration here is your wilingness to believe anything said
>  to you.

Apparently, you are the one who is sadly misinformed.

> As I said, that is simply NOT the case and I have here my child
> as a living proof of that.

It IS the case and if your family has obtained your child's eligibility
certificate illegally perhaps you should keep quiet about it before one
of Quebec's language cops finds out about it and has your child transferred
to a French school!

I think that you have probably not understood the restrictions as they
applied outside of your own families experience. A simple read of the
appropriate legislation should help to straighten things out for you.
I would happy to send you some information on the subject if you would
really like to be accurately informed before speaking on the subject
again.

OK?

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven@spxtech.qc.ca                       |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: mtl.general,can.politics
From vn Fri Jan  8 09:43:26 1993
Subject: Re: Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties
References: <726336901.AA04023@illusion.tpg.org>
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Keywords: 

From article <726336901.AA04023@illusion.tpg.org>, by Yvon.Decelles@f420.n514.z17.illusion.tpg.org (Yvon Decelles):
> Hello Steve,
> 

Hello.

> 
> Your previous message about Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties said
> 

Don't forget, I said the fact that para 23(1)(a) is not applicable in Quebec
and chapter vii of Bill 101 ...

>  SP> make it legally possible for about 12,000 English speaking children in
>  SP> this province to be DENIED access to education in their own language
>  SP> schools. (If the parents attempt to obtain their certificate of 
>  SP> eligibility for instruction in English the children are actually
>  SP> "declare' ineligible pour l'instruction en anglaise" !!!!)
> 
>  ???
> 
>  You are misinformed,

No I'm not.

>  My children are now in english shool, I personaly
>  NEVER attended english school but my wife did. 

Was your wife a resident in Quebec before 26th August, 1977?

Was your wife educated in english in Canada?

> All that was required is that she bring a proof that she attended
> at least one full year in  english elementary school when we went
> to register my child.

WRONG!!!!!!!

One must also prove that one of the parents was educated in english IN
CANADA or else was educated in english elsewhere (for most of the first
7 grades - excluding kindergarten) but was a resident of Quebec before
26th August, 1977!!!!!!!!!

People who landed here after 26th August, 1977 (whether they have 
bothered to obtain their Canadian citizenship or not) can NOT send
their children to English schools in Quebec even if they were educated
in English for their entire lives!

If you got your "Certificate of eligibility for instruction in
English" for your child and your wife was not educated in english in Canada
or was educated in english elsewhere but was not a resident of Quebec
before 26th August 1977 - I (and about 10,000 others perhaps) would like
to know where you got it so we can get around this law too! (Email me so
we can all go get our eligibility certificates too! :-) )

> 
>  Perhaps less propaganda and more truth is what we need Hmmm?
> 

Absolutely!!!

Why don't you read sections 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms, paragraph 59 of the Constitution, and chapter viii of Bill 101?

>  SP> Hardly a demonstration of open-mindedness and tolerance! :-(
>  
>  The only demonstration here is your wilingness to believe anything said
>  to you.

Apparently, you are the one who is sadly misinformed.

> As I said, that is simply NOT the case and I have here my child
> as a living proof of that.

It IS the case and if your family has obtained your child's eligibility
certificate illegally perhaps you should keep quiet about it before one
of Quebec's language cops finds out about it and has your child transferred
to a French school!

I think that you have probably not understood the restrictions as they
applied outside of your own families experience. A simple read of the
appropriate legislation should help to straighten things out for you.
I would happy to send you some information on the subject if you would
really like to be accurately informed before speaking on the subject
again.

OK?

Newsgroups: can.politics,mtl.general
Subject: sds
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
Keywords: 

References: <726677019.AA04883@illusion.tpg.org>
Message-ID: <1993Jan11.103750.24908@spxtech.qc.ca>
X-Bytes: 3155
Subject: Re: Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties
Lines: 80
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
Newsgroups: mtl.followup
Path: steven
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:37:50 GMT

From article <726677019.AA04883@illusion.tpg.org>, by Yvon.Decelles@f420.n514.z17.illusion.tpg.org (Yvon Decelles):
> Hello Steve,
> 

Hello Yvonne.

> 
> Your previous message about Welcome to Quebec/repressed liberties said
> 
> 
>  SP> Was your wife a resident in Quebec before 26th August, 1977?
> 
>  Yes altough she wasn't in school anymore at that time.
> 
>  SP> Was your wife educated in english in Canada?
> 
>  New-Brunswick and Qc
> 

She was educated in English in Canada - that is one exception that allowed
her to obtain a certificate.
You said before that she had been educated in English - had that been outside
of Canada, the fact that she had received her education in English and was
resident in Quebec before 26th august 1977 is a nother exception that allowed
her to get a certificate.
Either of these exceptions could have been used. The first comes under the
provisions of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the second comes
under the provisions of Bill 101 itself.

>  SP> One must also prove that one of the parents was educated in english IN
>  SP> CANADA or else was educated in english elsewhere (for most of the
>  SP> first 7 grades - excluding kindergarten)
>  
>  One of the parent had to have received ONE year of primary level
>  schooling in Canada somewhere. That's the extent of what they ask us to
>  show. If anybody qualifies following this rule their children can go to
>  english school.
> 

This is not correct.

The law is interpreted to mean the MAJORITY of one's elementary
schooling (kindergarten does not count) must have been in English school,
and if one was not resident in Quebec before 26th august 1977 then that
schooling must have been IN CANADA.

> 
>  SP> People who landed here after 26th August, 1977 (whether they have 
>  SP> bothered to obtain their Canadian citizenship or not) can NOT send
>  SP> their children to English schools in Quebec even if they were educated
>  SP> in English for their entire lives!
> 
>   Can't really say anything about that since it didn't apply to our
>   situation. Altough up to a point I understand that immigrant who never
>   took english anywhere could be forced to take french. Immigrant who
>   previously had english education should be treated as englophone here
>   IMO.
> 

That is the current position of ALLIANCE QUEBEC.

My wife and I came here from England - we learned French as a second
language in school in England, our children could learn French as a 
second language here (and in an immersion program with plenty of extra-
curricula exposure). Why should we be told that we must allow our children
to be abducted into the French school system and to be assimilated into
the French community here?

I personally don't think there should be any limitations on choice of
schooling. It is immoral.


I'll send you some info.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven@spxtech.qc.ca                       |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven@spxtech.qc.ca                       |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||