🚀 go-pugleaf

On 13 Oct 1997, Scott A.Renner wrote:

> >>>>> At 08:44 10/10, Tracy Hornschuch <browntr@engr.orst.edu> said:
> <
> > Two questions for you...
> > 
> > 1) are you a Promise Keeper?
> > 
> > 2) if so then are you admitting that the Promise Keepers are telling their
> > wives that they are taking about their leadership in the household?
> > 
> > If so then this is telling women that they must follow their husbands and
> > do what they are told.  And then marriages wouldn't be that two-way road
> > anymore.
> 
> This is a tangent, but I'll answer anyway.
> 
> 1. I don't think so, but you might reasonably disagree.  I've never been to
>    a PK event.  On the other hand, I've read the "seven promises" and the
>    statement of faith, and I see nothing to argue with there.

I know someone who has...  and he has read the *seven promises*... I've
also seen them posted in other news groups, and I believe they are located
on the PKers web site.  I have no argument with them either.

> 2. There's a typo that makes this question hard to answer as written.  But
>    I'll try.  Yes, because PKers *are* taking the leadership role in the
>    household.  No, because that role does not mean what you think.

Totally understand.  I've been talking to someone on the phone about this
for the last few days.  He isn't a member, but has attended a meeting.  He
has been very insightfull on this subject and has helped me answer my
personal questions and concerns.  He also understands my concerns, and
definatly understands my *two-way* road concept.  He has been able to
explain to me (from his point of view) that the *seven promises* and the
two-way road can be combined into a heathy and happy marriage that can
last for a very long time.

> I think you might well change your mind about PK if you had personal
> acquaintance with a few PK families.  I have a few within my circle of
> friends.  None of these marriages can remotely be described as "women
> following their husbands and doing what they are told".  Instead I see a
> man and woman who have jointly decided where they want to go -- which is,
> primarily, the Kingdom of Heaven -- and a man trying to stay out in front
> on their way to this mutually-chosen destination, leading through service,
> placing the interests of his family ahead of his own desires.

I believe my friend has helped with this.

> That's not much like the NOW description.  How will you decide which
> version to believe?  The easy way is to choose the version that best fits
> your existing belief; the hard way is to ignore both sides and go find out
> for yourself.  Up to you...

Totally agree with you on the NOW description.  That's one reason why I
don't support them.  They've taken their role in society to an extent that
I don't agree with; it's just too much.

I feel for the most part that promises about marriage should not be
broken.  During my talks with my friend, I've explained to him my desire
to be married and to be married in that marriage for the rest of my life.
I've explained to him my desire to see my 50th wedding anniversary before
I die.  Then I've explained why I so much desire to be married in a church
the next time I'm married.  When he asked why... I explained to him that
being married in a church puts the marriage on a different level than
going to a justice of the peace.

I believe after spending over 12 hours on the phone with him this weekend
(not all at once) he understands.  Maybe some day I'll be able to
accomplish my desire.  I'm open to alot in life, and I'm open to religion
as a whole.  I just need to find someone who is open like me.  I don't
mind a husband who feels as if he's a *leader* in the household, but he
will have to know that we, as a couple, will have to talk about all
choices for the household and must agree on the answers.

When I make a promoise for marriage it's for life.  When I give a man my
heart and soul, it's for life.  I would like the same out of my future
husband.  It's for life, because it would break my heart and soul if it
wasn't.

I didn't marry for the right reasons the first time, and I don't plan on
making that same mistake again.  My ex was abusive to me and the kids, and
cheated on me. It took me over five years and a good friend before I left
him.  The time we were together I was there, because I wanted my children
to grow up with both parents in the house.  I know I made the right choice
in leaving him.  And if I find myself in the same situation any time in
the future I will leave.  A woman shouldn't be expected to stay in an
abusive marriage/relationship just for the sake of a promise or children.

Take care,
Tracy


browntr@engr.orst.edu                   | tracyh@teleport.COM
http://www.engr.orst.edu/~browntr/      | http://www.teleport.com/~tracyh/
I would like to find a man who wants    | Have you told your children
to be married and a father for life.    | you love them today?

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"Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense"