🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <mcculloch.2.62.362E32EE@osu.edu>,
  mcculloch.2@osu.edu (Hu McCulloch) wrote:
>
> Oscar Schlaf (aka HornedReaper) writes,
> concerning confirmation of maize in pre-Columbian Indian temple
> sculptures by Shakti M Gupta (_Plants in Indian Temple Art_,
> 1996), as previously reported by Johannessen and Parker
> (in _Economic Botany_, 1989),
>
> > Also given the usefulness of maize, one would think it would spread rather
> >quickly(even asuming it was whiped out later by a blight). And with it's
> >spread one would think to see many representations of it in the art of India
> >such as the Temple complexes of Sanchi, Mamallapuram, Ellura, Bhubaneswar,
> >Konark, ect. ect.  But it is totally abscent from temple art & texts. It is
> >one statue against literally millions, when it comes to Maize being
> >represented in Hindu mythology.
>
> Totally absent from temple art??  One statue against literally
> millions??  Once again Oscar's math leaves me mystified.
>
> J&P alone show photographs of 15 different objects in Indian
> temple sculptures that they identify as
> maize ears, in their 1989 Economic Botany article.


"The contention that objects in the hands of male and female deities sculpted
on the exterior of the Kesav Temple at Somnathpur near the city of Mysore,
Karnataka State, India, represent maize ears is rejected on linguistic,
religious, sculptural, archaeological, and botanical grounds."

 - Payak, M.M., and Sachan, J.K.S.
   "Maize Ears Not Sculpted in 13th Century Somnathpur Temple in India."
    Economic botany. APR 01 1993, vol. 47 no. 2, P. 202 1993.




   Several of these are
> repoduced on Yuri's website at
>   www.globalserve.net/~yuku/dif/wmzpix.htm (2 pages)
> Three of these same maize ears (photographed from slightly different
> angles, but in color) are on Carl Johannessen's site at
>   darkwing.uoregon.edu/~carljohann ,
> and linked on my site at
>   economics.sbs.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/maize.html .
>
> Johannessen and Parker report maize ears in
> three different Hoysala temples in Karnataka:
> Somnathpur, Belur, and Halebid.


  Jett & Carter, the first two historians outside of India to suggest
Pre-Colubmian Maize in India, only identified the the statues at
Somnathpur as Maize, and actually dismissed others.  I guess parker &
Johanssessen went back and accepted what the other two dismissed.


>
> It is true that all these occur in the southern state of
> Karnataka, 12th-13th c AD, suggesting a rather restricted
> cultivation of maize in both time and space, but _any_
> cultivation of maize in India before 1492 is sufficient
> to torpedo the widespread notion that Columbus
> invented the boat in that year.

  No it isn't suffiencient. And the statues are subject to interpetation &
don't resemble in the least any form of Maize grown at the time in the
New World.


> >> > Why haven't any corncobs radio-carbon dated to the time been found?
> >>
> >> Good point, but my suspicion is that archaeologists have simply dismissed
> >> all corncobs they have found as obviously (indeed, diagnostically) post-
> >> Columbian.
>
> > It's common practice to test all organic materials found at digs,
> >irreguardless of personal ideas.
>
> No -- money is never wasted on dating the surface weeds, since the fact
> they are still green is itself diagnostic of a very recent date.

 I said digs, surface weeds aren't found in digs, but on the surface. :)


  Nor is
> the beer residue in beer cans ever carbon dated, even if they are found
> beneath the surface, since the cans themselves are
> diagnostic of a 20th century AD date.  So why would money be wasted
> on dating corncobs, if any well-trained archaeologist "knows" that
> maize itelf is diagnostic of a post-1492 date, and if one is
> primarily interested in earlier materials?

 If your convinced that archaeologist just toss all evidence, what's
the point in discussing it?  Since it can't be proven or disproven,
just guessed upon.


>  Some time ago, on
> sci.arch, someone came up with an Indian site whose foodstuffs,
> none of which was maize, were extensively
> identified and/or C-14 dated, but this turned
> out to be of Indus Valley vintage and irrelevant to the maize
> issue.
>
> >So none haven't been found yet, for some odd
> >reasons none have been tested, or Mr. Kuchinsky's theory of a conspiracy on
> >the part of "Eurocentric" archaeologists tring to cover up the truth.....
>
> I'd say it's more of a mindset than a conspiracy.

 Considering the majority of the East Indian sites, are conducted by East
Indians and/or have Indian University involement nowdays , the mindset
would be leaning towards Pre-Colubian voyages, since that would raise the
prestige of the Indians. Sort of like English historians claims on Roger Bacon
coming up with gunpowder independent of the East....

                                         ---Oscar Schlaf---

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