🚀 go-pugleaf

David L. Jones wrote:
> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
> 
> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
> 
> Dave.

I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make 
these works of art.

David L. Jones wrote:

> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
> 
> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.

Which part of the calculators were the plane wheels?

-- 
Frank Buss, fb@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
> David L. Jones wrote:
> > Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> >http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>
> > Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>
> > Dave.
>
> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
> these works of art.

None.

From the constructor:
"The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."

Dave.

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>> David L. Jones wrote:
>> > Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>> >http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>
>> > Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>
>> > Dave.
>>
>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>> these works of art.
>
> None.
>
> From the constructor:
> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>
> Dave.

What a relief...
(cross-posted to c.s.hp48) 

On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > David L. Jones wrote:
> > > Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> > >http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>
> > > Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>
> > > Dave.
>
> > I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
> > these works of art.
>
> None.
>
> From the constructor:
> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>
> Dave.

Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.

"Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:497a8661$0$35415$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>
> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>> > Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>> >http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>
>>> > Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>
>>> > Dave.
>>>
>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>> these works of art.
>>
>> None.
>>
>> From the constructor:
>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>
>> Dave.
>
> What a relief...
> (cross-posted to c.s.hp48)
>

You can tell the era by the ceramic packages... 

"Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:497a8661$0$35415$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>
> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>> > Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>> >http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>
>>> > Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>
>>> > Dave.
>>>
>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>> these works of art.
>>
>> None.
>>
>> From the constructor:
>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>
>> Dave.
>
> What a relief...
> (cross-posted to c.s.hp48)

Thank goodness that no working HP calculators were injured during the making 
of those models.

That gave me quite a scare. I had to go pull out my HP 9825T, 35, 67, 97, 
34C, 38C, 42S, 12C, 16C, 32SII, 17BII+, 48SX, 48GX, 50G, 33S, 35S, and 20B 
and give them all a hug.

Phew!

Bob
-- 
== All google group posts are automatically deleted due to spam == 

BobW wrote:
> "Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:497a8661$0$35415$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>> Dave.
>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>> these works of art.
>>> None.
>>>
>>> From the constructor:
>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>
>>> Dave.
>> What a relief...
>> (cross-posted to c.s.hp48)
> 
> Thank goodness that no working HP calculators were injured during the making 
> of those models.
> 
> That gave me quite a scare. I had to go pull out my HP 9825T, 35, 67, 97, 
> 34C, 38C, 42S, 12C, 16C, 32SII, 17BII+, 48SX, 48GX, 50G, 33S, 35S, and 20B 
> and give them all a hug.
> 
> Phew!
> 

What? No HP11C? Still in (heavy) use here. The 12C is for finance guys 
AFAIK. Probably a lot of those will show up on the 2nd hand markets 
soon, along with their owners ...

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Frank Buss wrote:
> David L. Jones wrote:
> 
>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>
>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
> 
> Which part of the calculators were the plane wheels?
> 

Hard to see. Maybe the coin cells, with some black rubber bands? The 
first set of coin cells in my HP11C lasted around 15 years. Those old 
engineers sure knew their stuff.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

miso@sushi.com wrote:
> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>> Dave.
>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>> these works of art.
>> None.
>>
>> From the constructor:
>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>
>> Dave.
> 
> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.


They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:57:02 -0800, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

>miso@sushi.com wrote:
>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>> Dave.
>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>> these works of art.
>>> None.
>>>
>>> From the constructor:
>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>
>>> Dave.
>> 
>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>
>
>They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/

Ever driven by there?  HUGE place!

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:57:02 -0800, Joerg
> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
> 
>> miso@sushi.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>> these works of art.
>>>> None.
>>>>
>>>> From the constructor:
>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>>
>>>> Dave.
>>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>>
>> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
> 
> Ever driven by there?  HUGE place!
> 

No, but a pilot friend of mine told me about his experience at an 
aircraft salvage yard farther west. He said it's not for the squeamish, 
that there'd be lots of crash fuselages and they seem to not always 
clean the cockpit after removing the bodies ...

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Jan 23, 1:25 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>
> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>
> Dave.

Finally, something I can do with all those old DIP/DIC parts in my
junque-box.

;-)

Cheers,
Tom

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:49:19 -0800, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

>BobW wrote:
>> "Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>> news:497a8661$0$35415$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>>> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>> these works of art.
>>>> None.
>>>>
>>>> From the constructor:
>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>>
>>>> Dave.
>>> What a relief...
>>> (cross-posted to c.s.hp48)
>> 
>> Thank goodness that no working HP calculators were injured during the making 
>> of those models.
>> 
>> That gave me quite a scare. I had to go pull out my HP 9825T, 35, 67, 97, 
>> 34C, 38C, 42S, 12C, 16C, 32SII, 17BII+, 48SX, 48GX, 50G, 33S, 35S, and 20B 
>> and give them all a hug.
>> 
>> Phew!
>> 
>
>What? No HP11C? Still in (heavy) use here. The 12C is for finance guys 
>AFAIK. Probably a lot of those will show up on the 2nd hand markets 
>soon, along with their owners ...

HP12Cs are still being made, $70 retail, so I doubt they'd bring much
more than $100 on eBay...  ;-)

An HP11C, OTOH, I might buy.  I bought a 35S a year ago.  Don't like
it as much as either my long stolen HP11C or weak in the keys 35
year-old HP45.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:45:13 -0800, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:57:02 -0800, Joerg
>> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>> 
[snip]
>>>
>>> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>> 
>> Ever driven by there?  HUGE place!
>> 
>
>No, but a pilot friend of mine told me about his experience at an 
>aircraft salvage yard farther west. He said it's not for the squeamish, 
>that there'd be lots of crash fuselages and they seem to not always 
>clean the cockpit after removing the bodies ...

Would you want that job?

Most interesting salvage I ever saw was a car... guy tried to run a
police road block... the car had probably 50+ BIG bullet holes...
killed the guy, of course ;-)

Before someone's sensibilities are offended... this was in AZ, not in
some weenie-land state.

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:16:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:57:02 -0800, Joerg
><notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>miso@sushi.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>> these works of art.
>>>> None.
>>>>
>>>> From the constructor:
>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>>
>>>> Dave.
>>> 
>>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>>
>>
>>They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>>
>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>
>Ever driven by there?  HUGE place!

---
Google Earth to: "Aircraft boneyard Tucson AZ"

JF  

krw wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:49:19 -0800, Joerg
> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
> 
>> BobW wrote:
>>> "Steve Sousa" <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:497a8661$0$35415$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>>>> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>>> news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>>> these works of art.
>>>>> None.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the constructor:
>>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave.
>>>> What a relief...
>>>> (cross-posted to c.s.hp48)
>>> Thank goodness that no working HP calculators were injured during the making 
>>> of those models.
>>>
>>> That gave me quite a scare. I had to go pull out my HP 9825T, 35, 67, 97, 
>>> 34C, 38C, 42S, 12C, 16C, 32SII, 17BII+, 48SX, 48GX, 50G, 33S, 35S, and 20B 
>>> and give them all a hug.
>>>
>>> Phew!
>>>
>> What? No HP11C? Still in (heavy) use here. The 12C is for finance guys 
>> AFAIK. Probably a lot of those will show up on the 2nd hand markets 
>> soon, along with their owners ...
> 
> HP12Cs are still being made, $70 retail, so I doubt they'd bring much
> more than $100 on eBay...  ;-)
> 
> An HP11C, OTOH, I might buy.  I bought a 35S a year ago.  Don't like
> it as much as either my long stolen HP11C or weak in the keys 35
> year-old HP45.


Yes, Costco even had them a while ago. Anniversary edition. Not exactly 
the same electronically but it sure was a nice touch. I wish they'd also 
do that with the HP11C. And yeah, when my wife absolutely wants me to 
trudge along to a yard sale I always keep looking for those calculators. 
None so far in years :-(

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Jan 25, 7:17 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
wrote:
> krw wrote:
> > On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:49:19 -0800, Joerg
> > <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> BobW wrote:
> >>> "Steve Sousa" <etst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:497a8661$0$35415$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
> >>>> "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:14e795fa-af9f-468d-9246-c68200c46867@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
> >>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> >>>>>>>http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
> >>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
> >>>>>>> Dave.
> >>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
> >>>>>> these works of art.
> >>>>> None.
>
> >>>>> From the constructor:
> >>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
> >>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
> >>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
> >>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
> >>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
> >>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>
> >>>>> Dave.
> >>>> What a relief...
> >>>> (cross-posted to c.s.hp48)
> >>> Thank goodness that no working HP calculators were injured during the making
> >>> of those models.
>
> >>> That gave me quite a scare. I had to go pull out my HP 9825T, 35, 67, 97,
> >>> 34C, 38C, 42S, 12C, 16C, 32SII, 17BII+, 48SX, 48GX, 50G, 33S, 35S, and 20B
> >>> and give them all a hug.
>
> >>> Phew!
>
> >> What? No HP11C? Still in (heavy) use here. The 12C is for finance guys
> >> AFAIK. Probably a lot of those will show up on the 2nd hand markets
> >> soon, along with their owners ...
>
> > HP12Cs are still being made, $70 retail, so I doubt they'd bring much
> > more than $100 on eBay...  ;-)
>
> > An HP11C, OTOH, I might buy.  I bought a 35S a year ago.  Don't like
> > it as much as either my long stolen HP11C or weak in the keys 35
> > year-old HP45.
>
> Yes, Costco even had them a while ago. Anniversary edition. Not exactly
> the same electronically but it sure was a nice touch.

The latest 12C actually uses an Atmel ARM processor (as in the new
20B) running the original 12C ROM using the Nonpareil emulator:
http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/

Rumor has it further Voyager models (11C, 15C etc) will be re-released
with this method.

Dave.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:45:13 -0800, the renowned Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:57:02 -0800, Joerg
>> <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> miso@sushi.com wrote:
>>>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>>> these works of art.
>>>>> None.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the constructor:
>>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave.
>>>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>>>
>>> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>> 
>> Ever driven by there?  HUGE place!
>> 
>
>No, but a pilot friend of mine told me about his experience at an 
>aircraft salvage yard farther west. He said it's not for the squeamish, 
>that there'd be lots of crash fuselages and they seem to not always 
>clean the cockpit after removing the bodies ...


Considering the cost of aircraft parts- an arm and a leg- it might be
possible to overlook such evidence of prior owners. 



Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> the renowned Joerg wrote:
> 
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>  Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>>> miso@sushi.com wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>>>> these works of art.
>>>>>> None.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the constructor:
>>>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>>>> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>>> Ever driven by there?  HUGE place!
>>>
>> No, but a pilot friend of mine told me about his experience at an 
>> aircraft salvage yard farther west. He said it's not for the squeamish, 
>> that there'd be lots of crash fuselages and they seem to not always 
>> clean the cockpit after removing the bodies ...
> 
> 
> Considering the cost of aircraft parts- an arm and a leg- it might be
> possible to overlook such evidence of prior owners. 
> 
> 

You get what you pay for?

Cheers,
James Arthur

On Jan 24, 8:57 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
wrote:
> m...@sushi.com wrote:
> > On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>> David L. Jones wrote:
> >>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> >>>>http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
> >>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
> >>>> Dave.
> >>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
> >>> these works of art.
> >> None.
>
> >> From the constructor:
> >> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
> >> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
> >> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
> >> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
> >> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
> >> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>
> >> Dave.
>
> > Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>
> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.

I don't think that kind of ceramic package is used for anything other
than prototypes. So you would recycle them for in house use.

There is a boneyard near the old El Mirage airport near Lancaster. I
got permission to tour it a few years ago, but no photographs.
However, there are photographs from the outside the fence on the net.
http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/CA4952/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/6202560/
http://www.lazygranch.com/el_mirage.htm
http://tinyurl.com/bdooxg

You may remember these guys for getting busted by having scraped
F-14s, a plane used by Iran, which just would love to get spare parts.

I think the place has new owners, so I have no idea if you can tour it
anymore.

On Jan 24, 8:52 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
wrote:
> Frank Buss wrote:
> > David L. Jones wrote:
>
> >> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> >>http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>
> >> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>
> > Which part of the calculators were the plane wheels?
>
> Hard to see. Maybe the coin cells, with some black rubber bands? The
> first set of coin cells in my HP11C lasted around 15 years. Those old
> engineers sure knew their stuff.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.

The old HP (not the Chinese outsource Carly Fiorina HP) had the
attitude that the cheapest thing they made reflected on the entire
company. Thus even a calculator was made to HP standards. I was
dealing with HP of old regarding ESD, and nothing left the factory
unless every external pin could handle 30KV. If it took some
protection devices, so be it.

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> writes:

>
> The latest 12C actually uses an Atmel ARM processor (as in the new
> 20B) running the original 12C ROM using the Nonpareil emulator:
> http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/
>
> Rumor has it further Voyager models (11C, 15C etc) will be re-released
> with this method.

	How does the ARM.based version compare with the old version,
in terms of speed and battery life? I would not be surpised to hear of
an 11C that was still on its original set of batteries :-)

On Jan 25, 7:17 pm, Raymond Wiker <r...@RawMBP.local> wrote:
> "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
> > The latest 12C actually uses an Atmel ARM processor (as in the new
> > 20B) running the original 12C ROM using the Nonpareil emulator:
> >http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/
>
> > Rumor has it further Voyager models (11C, 15C etc) will be re-released
> > with this method.
>
>         How does the ARM.based version compare with the old version,
> in terms of speed and battery life? I would not be surpised to hear of
> an 11C that was still on its original set of batteries :-)

I haven't head about the new 12C as apparently it's quite hard to find
and identify them on the shelves, and only sold in Europe or somewhere
so far?

If the new 20B is anything to go by (and it should be because it's the
same processor) then battery life it will be a shocker.
Rated 9 months from two CR2032 batteries.
IMO HP goofed big in the design of the 20B. It works at 30MHz for all
calculations (then goes to sleep), but that means 15mA or so from the
two CR2032 batteries. This means big losses in the battery internal
resistance when doing calcs.
When I queried one of the HP designers about this on another forum, I
got the response that the CR2032 batteries have an IR of 5 ohms (IIRC)
and everything was fine and dandy. Well, they must be real special
batteries they are using because normal CR2032's start at 20ohms IR
and go up.

I can dig out the actual figures I came up with from the other forum
if needed, but it was I think something like 30% at least of the
computational power wasted in the battery IR. Crazy design.

Also, there was some concern about the low battery detection logic not
working properly.

Dave.

David L. Jones wrote:
> On Jan 25, 7:17 pm, Raymond Wiker <r...@RawMBP.local> wrote:
>> "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>> The latest 12C actually uses an Atmel ARM processor (as in the new
>>> 20B) running the original 12C ROM using the Nonpareil emulator:
>>> http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/
>>> Rumor has it further Voyager models (11C, 15C etc) will be re-released
>>> with this method.
>>
>>         How does the ARM.based version compare with the old version,
>> in terms of speed and battery life? I would not be surpised to hear of
>> an 11C that was still on its original set of batteries :-)
> 
> I haven't head about the new 12C as apparently it's quite hard to find
> and identify them on the shelves, and only sold in Europe or somewhere
> so far?
> 
> If the new 20B is anything to go by (and it should be because it's the
> same processor) then battery life it will be a shocker.
> Rated 9 months from two CR2032 batteries.
> IMO HP goofed big in the design of the 20B. It works at 30MHz for all
> calculations (then goes to sleep), but that means 15mA or so from the
> two CR2032 batteries. This means big losses in the battery internal
> resistance when doing calcs.


Why on earth does a calculator need to run at 30MHz?  The
original HP15c ran at 220KHz[*] in 1983.  Has Bill Gates
really made us 136x dumber / less efficient in the past
26 years?

Well, maybe he has at that.

* Unless hotrodded ...
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/hpcalc/voyager/speedup.html


Run the new version at 2MHz, port it natively to the ARM, and
blaze on.


Cheers,
James Arthur

miso@sushi.com wrote:
> On Jan 24, 8:57 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
> wrote:
>> m...@sushi.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
>>>>>> http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
>>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
>>>>>> Dave.
>>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
>>>>> these works of art.
>>>> None.
>>>> From the constructor:
>>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
>>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
>>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
>>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
>>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
>>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
>>>> Dave.
>>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
>> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Joerg
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>>
>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
>> Use another domain or send PM.
> 
> I don't think that kind of ceramic package is used for anything other
> than prototypes. So you would recycle them for in house use.
> 

Oh, we have used tons of ceramic chip packages in ultrasound machines. 
Also, the gear in my lab is full of them. For example, all EPROMs in the 
HP4191 are ceramic. And then they stuck them into cheap sockets 
(#^&*%!!). Which had once cost me almost a day to figure out why the 
thing wouldn't calibrate anymore. There was an intermittent socket contact.


> There is a boneyard near the old El Mirage airport near Lancaster. I
> got permission to tour it a few years ago, but no photographs.
> However, there are photographs from the outside the fence on the net.
> http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/CA4952/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/6202560/
> http://www.lazygranch.com/el_mirage.htm
> http://tinyurl.com/bdooxg
> 

Brings back old memories. My first flight across the big pond was in one 
of these, with Capitol Airways:

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image2124.html

It probably also ended in Tucson by now.



> You may remember these guys for getting busted by having scraped
> F-14s, a plane used by Iran, which just would love to get spare parts.
> 

Whoops. Not good.


> I think the place has new owners, so I have no idea if you can tour it
> anymore.
> 
> 

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:01:39 -0600, David L. Jones wrote:

> The latest 12C actually uses an Atmel ARM processor (as in the new
> 20B) running the original 12C ROM using the Nonpareil emulator:
> http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/
>
> Rumor has it further Voyager models (11C, 15C etc)
> will be re-released with this method.

Since it's been observed that some previous product "updates"
are actually complete internal re-designs, complete with
bad bugs and less accuracy, an emulation of the original
would seem very attractive, to those who know about
the quality of those originals; perhaps, should they
dare to tinker with them, the few remaining bugs
of the originals might even be fixed.

However, the originals were designed with limited memory,
so can an exact clone provide any more program and data storage,
or even additional functions,
as did some of the subsequent "updates"?

I suppose I'd better rush out and sell my old originals,
before the market is flooded with clones,
satisfying the demand that currently exceeds the supply :)

Never-cloned originals whose value keeps increasing:
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS229787+15-Jan-2008+PRN20080115
http://www.glassinesurfer.com/stamp_collecting/gsinvertedjenny.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_Jenny

Once rare, until cloned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dag_Hammarskj�ld_invert
http://stamps.about.com/od/historyofphilately/p/DagHammar.htm

How about those HP49Gs with inverted keys?
Are they fetching huge prices, like stamps?
See http://holyjoe.net/hp/HP49.htm#upsidedown

-[ ]-

On Jan 25, 1:35 pm, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
wrote:
> m...@sushi.com wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 8:57 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
> > wrote:
> >> m...@sushi.com wrote:
> >>> On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Jan 24, 9:35 am, Mark Harriss <bi...@blartco.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> David L. Jones wrote:
> >>>>>> Thought I'd share this I came across on another group:
> >>>>>>http://www.elcafevirtual.com/julio/
> >>>>>> Model planes made entirely from old HP calculator chips and parts.
> >>>>>> Dave.
> >>>>> I wonder how many collector's item HP machines were destroyed to make
> >>>>> these works of art.
> >>>> None.
> >>>> From the constructor:
> >>>> "The Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was the second of four I made more
> >>>> than 30 years ago with defective and scrap HPchips. This aircraft
> >>>> model I made with IC,s of the Clasic and Woodstock pocked calculator
> >>>> series. This model has a modified HP-67 card reader mechanism built-in
> >>>> that moves up and down the landing gear, pilots' cabin and the engine
> >>>> light and four intermitent tricolor leds, powered by 6 V."
> >>>> Dave.
> >>> Those are recyclable packages, not scrap.
> >> They can still be recycled after the last ferry flight to Tucson ;-)
>
> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1285915/
>
> >> --
> >> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> >> Use another domain or send PM.
>
> > I don't think that kind of ceramic package is used for anything other
> > than prototypes. So you would recycle them for in house use.
>
> Oh, we have used tons of ceramic chip packages in ultrasound machines.
> Also, the gear in my lab is full of them. For example, all EPROMs in the
> HP4191 are ceramic. And then they stuck them into cheap sockets
> (#^&*%!!). Which had once cost me almost a day to figure out why the
> thing wouldn't calibrate anymore. There was an intermittent socket contact.
>
> > There is a boneyard near the old El Mirage airport near Lancaster. I
> > got permission to tour it a few years ago, but no photographs.
> > However, there are photographs from the outside the fence on the net.
> >http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/CA4952/
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/6202560/
> >http://www.lazygranch.com/el_mirage.htm
> >http://tinyurl.com/bdooxg
>
> Brings back old memories. My first flight across the big pond was in one
> of these, with Capitol Airways:
>
> http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image2124.html
>
> It probably also ended in Tucson by now.
>
> > You may remember these guys for getting busted by having scraped
> > F-14s, a plane used by Iran, which just would love to get spare parts.
>
> Whoops. Not good.
>
> > I think the place has new owners, so I have no idea if you can tour it
> > anymore.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.

Oh cerdips still exist, but I never worked anywhere where the solder
on lid type (side braze) was sold to customers. The cerdips have a
ceramic lid that looks like the same material as the body. More like
this:
http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/images/5445.jpg

Ok, I stand corrected. It took me a while, but I found a product that
was sold in side braze:
AT28C040-20BC

On Jan 26, 7:44 am, "John H Meyers" <jhmey...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:01:39 -0600, David L. Jones wrote:
> > The latest 12C actually uses an Atmel ARM processor (as in the new
> > 20B) running the original 12C ROM using the Nonpareil emulator:
> >http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com/
>
> > Rumor has it further Voyager models (11C, 15C etc)
> > will be re-released with this method.
>
> Since it's been observed that some previous product "updates"
> are actually complete internal re-designs, complete with
> bad bugs and less accuracy, an emulation of the original
> would seem very attractive, to those who know about
> the quality of those originals; perhaps, should they
> dare to tinker with them, the few remaining bugs
> of the originals might even be fixed.

The ASIC used in the previous 12C was becoming obsolete, so HP either
had to either re-design from scratch (software wise), or go with
Eric's ROM emulator. They wisely went with the later given that almost
the entire finance industry relies on the 12C, and any numerical bugs
would have unacceptable to say the least.

> However, the originals were designed with limited memory,
> so can an exact clone provide any more program and data storage,
> or even additional functions,
> as did some of the subsequent "updates"?
>
> I suppose I'd better rush out and sell my old originals,
> before the market is flooded with clones,
> satisfying the demand that currently exceeds the supply :)

Yup, if a new 11C or 15C ROM emulated machine comes out, the Ebay
market will drop like a rock.

> Never-cloned originals whose value keeps increasing:http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS229787+15-Jan-2008+PR...http://www.glassinesurfer.com/stamp_collecting/gsinvertedjenny.shtmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_Jenny
>
> Once rare, until cloned:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dag_Hammarskjöld_inverthttp://stamps.about.com/od/historyofphilately/p/DagHammar.htm
>
> How about those HP49Gs with inverted keys?
> Are they fetching huge prices, like stamps?
> Seehttp://holyjoe.net/hp/HP49.htm#upsidedown

If Casio ever brong back the CFX-400, interest in my uWatch will no
doubt dry up!
http://www.calcwatch.com/

Dave.

miso@sushi.com wrote:

[...]

> Oh cerdips still exist, but I never worked anywhere where the solder
> on lid type (side braze) was sold to customers. The cerdips have a
> ceramic lid that looks like the same material as the body. More like
> this:
> http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/images/5445.jpg
> 
> Ok, I stand corrected. It took me a while, but I found a product that
> was sold in side braze:
> AT28C040-20BC
> 

Just opened a random digital parts drawer here, first chip that popped 
up is a TRW image processor. Gray 40-pin cerdip side-braze. Then lots of 
ADCs and whatnot. They look kind of cute with their golden tops.

I've got several here that have a special gold-plated trace run across 
the top and down into the chip to ground the metal cap.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Jan 26, 9:34 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
wrote:
> m...@sushi.com wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Oh cerdips still exist, but I never worked anywhere where the solder
> > on lid type (side braze) was sold to customers. The cerdips have a
> > ceramic lid that looks like the same material as the body. More like
> > this:
> >http://smithsonianchips.si.edu/ice/images/images/5445.jpg
>
> > Ok, I stand corrected. It took me a while, but I found a product that
> > was sold in side braze:
> > AT28C040-20BC
>
> Just opened a random digital parts drawer here, first chip that popped
> up is a TRW image processor. Gray 40-pin cerdip side-braze. Then lots of
> ADCs and whatnot. They look kind of cute with their golden tops.
>
> I've got several here that have a special gold-plated trace run across
> the top and down into the chip to ground the metal cap.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
> Use another domain or send PM.

Of course, the side braze package screams "take off the lid and take a
look at me." You want to make life at least a little bit harder for
the chip copiers. Worse yet, it makes it easy for the competition to
probe your chip. [You pull the probe station wafer chuck and slide in
a card with zif socket. It works quite well. Laser off the vapox.]

There is a website out there of "chip art." That is, the junk people
put in the chip just for looks. Most companies will object to anything
not needed in a chip, especially art, since it doesn't meet design
rules. Now of course, your art doesn't have to work, but there are
issues with funny shaped patterns causing resist to peal and
unfortunately fall in the area of active circuitry.

When I was at IDT, we would do minor rev marking in Chinese. I'm sure
the competition figured it out.

On 2009-01-26, miso@sushi.com <miso@sushi.com> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 9:34 am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>

> Of course, the side braze package screams "take off the lid and take a
> look at me." You want to make life at least a little bit harder for
> the chip copiers. Worse yet, it makes it easy for the competition to
> probe your chip. [You pull the probe station wafer chuck and slide in
> a card with zif socket. It works quite well. Laser off the vapox.]

I did that to some regular cerdips as a kid so I could stick them
under my toy microscope. if you whack 'em right the top comes away.

Jasen Betts wrote:
> 
> On 2009-01-26, miso@sushi.com <miso@sushi.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 26, 9:34� am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
> 
> > Of course, the side braze package screams "take off the lid and take a
> > look at me." You want to make life at least a little bit harder for
> > the chip copiers. Worse yet, it makes it easy for the competition to
> > probe your chip. [You pull the probe station wafer chuck and slide in
> > a card with zif socket. It works quite well. Laser off the vapox.]
> 
> I did that to some regular cerdips as a kid so I could stick them
> under my toy microscope. if you whack 'em right the top comes away.


   Some of those ceramic chips have beryllium Oxide in the ceramic,
which is dangerous to breathe.


-- 
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Jan 29, 9:46 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Jasen Betts wrote:
>
> > On 2009-01-26, m...@sushi.com <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
> > > On Jan 26, 9:34Â am, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net>
>
> > > Of course, the side braze package screams "take off the lid and take a
> > > look at me." You want to make life at least a little bit harder for
> > > the chip copiers. Worse yet, it makes it easy for the competition to
> > > probe your chip. [You pull the probe station wafer chuck and slide in
> > > a card with zif socket. It works quite well. Laser off the vapox.]
>
> > I did that to some regular cerdips as a kid so I could stick them
> > under my toy microscope. if you whack 'em right the top comes away.
>
>    Some of those ceramic chips have beryllium Oxide in the ceramic,
> which is dangerous to breathe.
>
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>
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> There are two kinds of people on this earth:
> The crazy, and the insane.
> The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

As a side note, you can clean/sharpen your probe station probe tip
using a ceramic package. You use the package like a sharpening stone.
Granted, there is a knack to this.

"miso@sushi.com" wrote:
> 
> As a side note, you can clean/sharpen your probe station probe tip
> using a ceramic package. You use the package like a sharpening stone.
> Granted, there is a knack to this.


   It leaves metal dust on the package, though.  A dead IC would be OK,
but I wouldn't do it on any on a PC board.  Just make sure to rinse it
off with water right away if you break the ceramic, to remove any dust,
unless you know for sure there is no Beryllium Oxide.  It can put you in
the hospital, or worse.  A tech on the GRC-106 test line found a broken
4CX250 in a radio at his bench and spend most of a week in the local
hospital.  Lucky for him, the tech next to him was a ham, who knew the
dangers and grabbed a plastic bag to cover the tube and his hands, then
lead him to a sink to wash up, or he might have died.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.