🚀 go-pugleaf

Christopher wrote:

> BIG NEWS about low energy nuclear reaction (LENR)
> 
It's bullshit.

> Andrea Rossi claims to have developed a 10 kilowatt (heat) E-Cat LENR
> home heater the size of a portable computer, with a projected retail
> price of just $500.   Rossi says his new heater can be refueled by
> home owners after six months of continuous 24-7 use, and that nickel
> powder fuel refills will only cost about $10.  Extrapolating from
> that, using four such heaters to provide both heat and hot water for a
> large 3,000 square foot home over a 6 month winter heating season will
> cost about $40, plus the cost of a small amount of electricity needed
> to keep the E-Cats running.  Currently, Rossi guarantees his reactors
> will output at least six times energy input, and the E-Cat is
> upgradeable as new core designs provide greater efficiency.  Rossi's
> chief competitor, Defkalion Green Technologies, already claims their
> Hyperion reactors output a least 25 times energy input.  Unlike
> Defkalion's more complex design, no separate hydrogen gas canisters
> are used in the simplified E-Cat.  Instead, the refillable reactor
> core, a totally sealed cartridge about the size of a pack of
> cigarettes, comes preloaded with sufficient hydrogen to allow the
> reactor to run for 180 days of continuous operation.  Texas based
> National Instruments is manufacturing the controlling electronics and
> helping Rossi with research and development.  A production sample of
> the new E-Cat is currently being tested by Underwriter Laboratories,
> and sales are expected to begin in early 2013 or sooner through chain
> stores and the Internet.  Rossi is not seeking investors, and intends
> to make money on mass sales of a thoroughly tested product that is
> guaranteed to work, just as any common household appliance.
> 
> Rossi's brilliant new design has reduced the E-Cat to just three main
> components: a easily replaceable reactor cartridge, a simple heating
> element to bring the reactor up to operating temperatures, and a low
> cost electronics board to control energy input and heat output.
> Combine simplified design with a highly automated factory now being
> prepared in Florida, and you can see how Rossi's very low price
> structure was achieved.  If all of this proves true, E-Cat sales could
> have a substantial impact on oil prices, which are based on
> expectations of continued high demand for oil as fuel.  Once the
> global marketplace realizes that all fossil fuels will soon become
> obsolete, will that knowledge by itself reduce the price of oil?
> Defkalion GT claims to have affordable, highly efficient home reactors
> suitable for electricity production already built and undergoing
> certification testing for European Union sales.  Does this mean we
> will start tearing down big central power plants instead of building
> new ones?
> 
> For details see THE FUSION REVOLUTION at:
> http://renewable.50webs.com/fusion.html

-- 
new video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Px2Hi7ZA4
Ezekiel 23:20

On 16/01/2012 02:38, Christopher wrote:
> BIG NEWS about low energy nuclear reaction (LENR)
>
> Andrea Rossi claims to have developed a 10 kilowatt (heat) E-Cat LENR
> home heater the size of a portable computer, with a projected retail
> price of just $500.   Rossi says his new heater can be refueled by
> home owners after six months of continuous 24-7 use, and that nickel
> powder fuel refills will only cost about $10.  Extrapolating from
> that, using four such heaters to provide both heat and hot water for a
> large 3,000 square foot home over a 6 month winter heating season will
> cost about $40, plus the cost of a small amount of electricity needed
> to keep the E-Cats running.  Currently, Rossi guarantees his reactors
> will output at least six times energy input,

so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a "small 
amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short cycling.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:03:58 -0800, Bible Studies with Satan
<bible@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Christopher wrote:
>
>> BIG NEWS about low energy nuclear reaction (LENR)
>> 
>It's bullshit.

That ~can't~ smell good as a heating fuel...

On Jan 17, 1:41 am, CWatters <colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com>
wrote:

" so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
"small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
cycling."
---------------------------------
It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be
better, but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I would
rather buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a minimum
COP of 25 and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion spec sheet
at:

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf

Rossi need tos figure out a way to boost his COP, or he will have
problems competing with Defkalion.

Obama and Energy Secretary Steven Chu are not interested in LENR, only
in biofuels, wind, and solar.  Even primitive first generation LENR
products will be miles and miles better than that, and they require no
mandates, subsidies, or tax breaks.  In 10 years I would expect COPs
of 50 to 1, or possibly better.

See the CBS News story about the 11 more Solyndras.

http://biggovernment.com/whall/2012/01/ ... solyndras/

There is hope, but not through Barack Obama and Steven Chu.

See THE RENEWABLE ENERGY DISASTER at:

http://renewable.50webs.com/

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:51 -0800 (PST), Christopher wrote:

>On Jan 17, 1:41�am, CWatters <colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com>
>wrote:
>
>" so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
>"small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
>cycling."
>---------------------------------
>It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
>alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be
>better, but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I would
>rather buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a minimum
>COP of 25 and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion spec sheet
>at:
>
>http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf
>
>Rossi need tos figure out a way to boost his COP, or he will have
>problems competing with Defkalion.

Intriguing.

But does this technology share the pitfalls of making ethanol from
corn, or of hydrogen "energy" in that they simply move the energy use
elsewhere, possibly at greater cost than they provide in the end use?

How much energy is needed to mine and smelt the nickle used in these
devices?

Hydrogen stored at 50 atmospheres seems energy-intensive and
potentially problematic.

What is the overall COP of these devices, including the upstream
energy inputs?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:51 -0800, Christopher wrote:

> On Jan 17, 1:41 am, CWatters <colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com>
> wrote:
> 
> " so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
> "small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
> cycling."
> ---------------------------------
> It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
> alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be better,
> but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I would rather
> buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a minimum COP of 25
> and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion spec sheet at:
> 
> http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf

Any time you have an energy generating device you have to plug into the 
wall is one hint that they're trying to bamboosel people. Do you have to 
plug your gasoline engine car into the wall to start it? No.  

Another hint is that they're using hydrogen and not deuterium. If LENR 
was possible with hydrogen, it would have been discovered a long time 
ago. 

A third hint is that you have to replace the hydrogen tank every 6 months 
is another hint: a bottle of deuterium has enough energy to last much 
longer than the mechanical parts of the device. 

It appears that what the device is doing is converting the energy in the 
hydrogen tank into energy by using the metal hydride process. Metals 
absorbing hydrogen emit heat. It was often mistaken for cold fusion by 
people who didn't understand the physics. 

On 18/01/2012 07:52, Wally W. wrote:

> How much energy is needed to mine and smelt the nickle used in these
> devices?
>

Nickel is cheap so can't use much energy to make. If it's a nuclear 
process as claimed you don't need much nickel either.

On 18/01/2012 17:01, Marvin the Martian wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:51 -0800, Christopher wrote:
>
>> On Jan 17, 1:41 am, CWatters<colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> " so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
>> "small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
>> cycling."
>> ---------------------------------
>> It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
>> alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be better,
>> but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I would rather
>> buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a minimum COP of 25
>> and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion spec sheet at:
>>
>> http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf
>
> Any time you have an energy generating device you have to plug into the
> wall is one hint that they're trying to bamboosel people. Do you have to
> plug your gasoline engine car into the wall to start it? No.
>
> Another hint is that they're using hydrogen and not deuterium. If LENR
> was possible with hydrogen, it would have been discovered a long time
> ago.
>
> A third hint is that you have to replace the hydrogen tank every 6 months
> is another hint: a bottle of deuterium has enough energy to last much
> longer than the mechanical parts of the device.
>
> It appears that what the device is doing is converting the energy in the
> hydrogen tank into energy by using the metal hydride process. Metals
> absorbing hydrogen emit heat. It was often mistaken for cold fusion by
> people who didn't understand the physics.
>

You are probably correct but..

I think at one of his demos they weighed the hydrogen tank before and 
after to check the consumption rate vs power output.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:56:52 +0000, CWatters wrote:

> On 18/01/2012 17:01, Marvin the Martian wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:51 -0800, Christopher wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 17, 1:41 am, CWatters<colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> " so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
>>> "small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
>>> cycling."
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
>>> alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be
>>> better, but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I would
>>> rather buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a minimum
>>> COP of 25 and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion spec sheet
>>> at:
>>>
>>> http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/
HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf
>>
>> Any time you have an energy generating device you have to plug into the
>> wall is one hint that they're trying to bamboosel people. Do you have
>> to plug your gasoline engine car into the wall to start it? No.
>>
>> Another hint is that they're using hydrogen and not deuterium. If LENR
>> was possible with hydrogen, it would have been discovered a long time
>> ago.
>>
>> A third hint is that you have to replace the hydrogen tank every 6
>> months is another hint: a bottle of deuterium has enough energy to last
>> much longer than the mechanical parts of the device.
>>
>> It appears that what the device is doing is converting the energy in
>> the hydrogen tank into energy by using the metal hydride process.
>> Metals absorbing hydrogen emit heat. It was often mistaken for cold
>> fusion by people who didn't understand the physics.
>>
>>
> You are probably correct but..
> 
> I think at one of his demos they weighed the hydrogen tank before and
> after to check the consumption rate vs power output.

And?

The hydrogen lost with the Defkalion system is mainly lost to
leakage.  In Rossi's new design the hydrogen is sealed in with the
nickel, and only tiny amounts are use.  If these devices work as
promised, there is no way in hell the energy could possibly come from
the burning of hydrogen.  It must be a nuclear process.

ALL power plants in the United States are plugged into the power
grid.  Does that mean that coal, natural gas, and fission nuclear
power plants are a hoax?  I understand your skepticism, but you have
not looked deeply enough into LENR.

On Jan 18, 9:01 am, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:51 -0800, Christopher wrote:
> > On Jan 17, 1:41 am, CWatters <colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > " so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
> > "small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
> > cycling."
> > ---------------------------------
> > It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
> > alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be better,
> > but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I would rather
> > buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a minimum COP of 25
> > and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion spec sheet at:
>
> >http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf
>
> Any time you have an energy generating device you have to plug into the
> wall is one hint that they're trying to bamboosel people. Do you have to
> plug your gasoline engine car into the wall to start it? No.
>
> Another hint is that they're using hydrogen and not deuterium. If LENR
> was possible with hydrogen, it would have been discovered a long time
> ago.
>
> A third hint is that you have to replace the hydrogen tank every 6 months
> is another hint: a bottle of deuterium has enough energy to last much
> longer than the mechanical parts of the device.
>
> It appears that what the device is doing is converting the energy in the
> hydrogen tank into energy by using the metal hydride process. Metals
> absorbing hydrogen emit heat. It was often mistaken for cold fusion by
> people who didn't understand the physics.

On Jan 27, 10:15 pm, Christopher <calderconnect...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The hydrogen lost with the Defkalion system is mainly lost to
> leakage.  In Rossi's new design the hydrogen is sealed in with the
> nickel, and only tiny amounts are use.  If these devices work as
> promised, there is no way in hell the energy could possibly come from
> the burning of hydrogen.  It must be a nuclear process.
After it was revealed Japanese inspectors were paid off for Fukushima,
nobody'd trust it'd be done right here.

The engineering & safety of the LFTR is well understood by scientists,
but the power elites'd never let it be developed by tying up EPA
studies in Congress forever.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:15:58 -0800, Christopher wrote:

> The hydrogen lost with the Defkalion system is mainly lost to leakage. 
> In Rossi's new design the hydrogen is sealed in with the nickel, and
> only tiny amounts are use.  If these devices work as promised, there is
> no way in hell the energy could possibly come from the burning of
> hydrogen.  It must be a nuclear process.

Nickel, of course, forms a metal hydride. Hydrogen can go right through 
it. 

I didn't say that the energy came from burning hydrogen. I pointed out it 
was plugged into the wall. 
 
> ALL power plants in the United States are plugged into the power grid. 
> Does that mean that coal, natural gas, and fission nuclear power plants
> are a hoax?  I understand your skepticism, but you have not looked
> deeply enough into LENR.

I've seen how steam engines and generators work in the lab. They don't 
need to be connected to the grid. I have a car that isn't connected to 
the grid, and it starts. I have a home generator that doesn't need to be 
connected to the grid; indeed, it has to be DISCONNECTED from the grid. 

You found a product that has to be connected to the grid to work. What's 
that about? Silly design, at best, as you would lose power when the power 
is off. 

> On Jan 18, 9:01 am, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:51 -0800, Christopher wrote:
>> > On Jan 17, 1:41 am, CWatters
>> > <colin.watt...@NOturnersoakSPAM.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> > " so that 40kW heater can draw 6.5kW of electricity. Not exactly a
>> > "small amount". It may also require a thermal store to avoid short
>> > cycling."
>> > ---------------------------------
>> > It is a small amount compared to the cost of heating with electricity
>> > alone or with home heating oil.  The actual COP will probably be
>> > better, but for warranty reasons he only promises a COP of 6.  I
>> > would rather buy a Defkalion model which are guaranteed to have a
>> > minimum COP of 25 and can go all the way up to 32.  See Defkalion
>> > spec sheet at:
>>
>> >http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/
HyperionSpecsSheetNovember2011.pdf
>>
>> Any time you have an energy generating device you have to plug into the
>> wall is one hint that they're trying to bamboosel people. Do you have
>> to plug your gasoline engine car into the wall to start it? No.
>>
>> Another hint is that they're using hydrogen and not deuterium. If LENR
>> was possible with hydrogen, it would have been discovered a long time
>> ago.
>>
>> A third hint is that you have to replace the hydrogen tank every 6
>> months is another hint: a bottle of deuterium has enough energy to last
>> much longer than the mechanical parts of the device.
>>
>> It appears that what the device is doing is converting the energy in
>> the hydrogen tank into energy by using the metal hydride process.
>> Metals absorbing hydrogen emit heat. It was often mistaken for cold
>> fusion by people who didn't understand the physics.

On Jan 28, 9:23 am, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
>
> I didn't say that the energy came from burning hydrogen. I pointed out it
> was plugged into the wall.
>

And if it wasn't you would moan about using a battery to power the
calorimetry. iow In stead of tossing out the baby with the bathwater,
you are trying to drown it.

Like all nihilists, you cant wait for that MAD MAX style future you
want so badly. Or do you have some kooky idea how this MAD MAX future
you appear to embrace here can be prevented WITHOUT any such
technology?

You need X or you will die ---> people looking for X are insane

This is how your logic works? Asking that makes me curious:

How does it feel when religious people have a logical edge over you?
At least they have hope things might turn out ok in the end. In your
doctrine there firstly is no reason to think humanity is going to
survive. And secondly you feel the need to violently oppose the
solutions.

Are you going to desalinate water with pathological skepticism? Or
some other process involving magical thinking? Some details would be
nice, because I have already debunked all of that.

Do you plan to roll over and die while moaning about the very things
that should have saved you?

People are already dieing by the millions. What would you tell those
people?

~ "puh, it was plugged into the wall"

After 20 years of lies you now expect people to die for an argument
like that?

Spectacularly irrational.

What a dick

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:54:32 -0800, gaby de wilde wrote:

> On Jan 28, 9:23 am, Marvin the Martian <mar...@ontomars.org> wrote:
>>
>> I didn't say that the energy came from burning hydrogen. I pointed out
>> it was plugged into the wall.
>>
>>
> And if it wasn't you would moan about using a battery to power the
> calorimetry. iow In stead of tossing out the baby with the bathwater,
> you are trying to drown it.
> 
> Like all nihilists, you cant wait for that MAD MAX style future you want
> so badly. Or do you have some kooky idea how this MAD MAX future you
> appear to embrace here can be prevented WITHOUT any such technology?
> 
> You need X or you will die ---> people looking for X are insane
> 
> This is how your logic works? Asking that makes me curious:
> 
> How does it feel when religious people have a logical edge over you? At
> least they have hope things might turn out ok in the end. In your
> doctrine there firstly is no reason to think humanity is going to
> survive. And secondly you feel the need to violently oppose the
> solutions.
> 
> Are you going to desalinate water with pathological skepticism? Or some
> other process involving magical thinking? Some details would be nice,
> because I have already debunked all of that.
> 
> Do you plan to roll over and die while moaning about the very things
> that should have saved you?
> 
> People are already dieing by the millions. What would you tell those
> people?
> 
> ~ "puh, it was plugged into the wall"
> 
> After 20 years of lies you now expect people to die for an argument like
> that?
> 
> Spectacularly irrational.
> 
> What a dick

What the hell are you ranting about? 

I pointed out that if it is plugged into a wall, you have no idea if it 
really works or not. 

You start ranting about mad max and needing people to die, religious 
people and all kinds of bat-crazy stuff. Dude, you're seriously fucked up 
in the head. Serious. Where the hell did that come from? 

I'm gonna plonk you. You're probably harmless, but being fucked up crazy 
like that who the hell knows. Either way, the sure thing is that you're 
worthless for discussion. 

PLONK!!

On Jan 27, 9:37 pm, Day Brown <dayhbr...@gmail.com> wrote:

"The engineering & safety of the LFTR is well understood by
scientists, but the power elites'd never let it be developed by tying
up EPA studies in Congress forever."

Glad you mentioned the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor (LFTR).

See: http://thorium.50webs.com/

That is another excellent technology that we need as well.  LFTRs can
even be used to get rid of old nuclear waste.  I think we need both
technologies, and the LFTR can do things that LENR cannot.  There is
no big problem with nuclear waste with LFTRs, and they are very safe.

There is really no shortage of energy in the world, only a shortage of
human intelligence.  We have so much thorium that it will last far
longer than the human race.  Volcanoes and our own Sun will kill us
all long before we run out of thorium.