Thread View: sci.lang
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Started by Ananke
Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:39
Names for colours
Author: Ananke
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:39
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:39
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Can anyone help with central Victorian names for "blue" and "light grey"? I have some pet rats to name, and a colour of fur. The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from water, like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that. Another thought would be sky blue, on a very hot late summer's afternoon, when the heat haze is rising off the grass and cooking the oil out of the gum leaves, you look straight overhead and the sky is a dark, dark blue. Lovely. The blue and light grey names for the colour in general, and individual names, can come from anywhere, but I'd prefer Australian Aboriginal names, as they'll be going on posters. Any info or ideas for discussion would be greatly appreciated. Ana Remember the last time you were sane and well rested, and act like that. farrall at dingoblue dot net dot au http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~farrall
Re: Names for colours
Author: Tinkerer
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:54
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:54
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> The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from water, > like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that. Wallan - Australian aboriginal meaning water (wallan wallan = lots of water)
Re: Names for colours
Author: Mark Addinall
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:06
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:06
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Tinkerer wrote:
>
> > The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from
> water,
> > like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that.
>
> Wallan - Australian aboriginal meaning water (wallan wallan = lots of water)
Whereabouts? Just curious.
Water Rat
kurumburt - Wembawemba
muuluru - Paakantyi
Water
anheme - Eastern Arrente
badu - Sydney
bawa - Yindjibarndi
galiyn - Wir
gamba - Goo
gapu - Dat
guhtj - Bun
kabi - Nyu
kali - Ngi
katen - Wem
kwatye - Eastern Arrente
ngapa - Diy
ngarkula - Dat
ngipilinh - Mur
nguku - Paakantyi
ni - Merr
tharr - Mur
urewe - Eastern Arrente
wata - Tor
Water hole
gamba - Goo
kalkaay - Ngi
luthak - Wem
ngentye - Eastern Arrente
ntyanga - Eastern Arrente
pudna - Kau
thumpii - Paakantyi
(I liked that last one :-)
Waterlily flower
waakwak - Dat
(And that one :-)
River
balun - Bun
bila - Wir
bilu - Nyu
karirrhi - Diy
kurang pirr - Wem
mayang - Dat
ngipilinh - Mur
paaka - Paakantyi
parri - Kau
riyala - Dat
warlibirri - Goo
wo'uw - Wik
Riverbank
arnkarre - Eastern Arrente
(that was a good one eh? ;-)
Have fun,
Marky.
--
____ ---------------------
/ /\ addinall engineering
/ / \ mark addinall
/ / \ addinall@tik.com.au
/ / \ 0417 795 327
/ / /\ \ satellite
/ L / / \ E \ wireless
/ E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN
/ D / / \ \ C \ project design
/ O / / \ \ H \ project management
/ G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems
/ / / \ \ R \ C programming
/ / / \ \ \ unix administration
/ / / \ \ \ perl
/ / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd,
/ `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux
/ B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN
'----------------------------' \ \ -------------------
\ \ /
\________________________________\/
Re: Names for colours
Author: Tinkerer
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:33
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:33
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About 40k north of melbourne. I used to live near there (Kilmore) "Mark Addinall" <addinall@tik.com.au> wrote in message news:3C31DE94.CA31B3F6@tik.com.au... > Tinkerer wrote: > > > > > The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from > > water, > > > like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that. > > > > Wallan - Australian aboriginal meaning water (wallan wallan = lots of water) > > Whereabouts? Just curious. > > Water Rat > > kurumburt - Wembawemba > muuluru - Paakantyi > > Water > > anheme - Eastern Arrente > badu - Sydney > bawa - Yindjibarndi > galiyn - Wir > gamba - Goo > gapu - Dat > guhtj - Bun > kabi - Nyu > kali - Ngi > katen - Wem > kwatye - Eastern Arrente > ngapa - Diy > ngarkula - Dat > ngipilinh - Mur > nguku - Paakantyi > ni - Merr > tharr - Mur > urewe - Eastern Arrente > wata - Tor > > Water hole > > gamba - Goo > kalkaay - Ngi > luthak - Wem > ngentye - Eastern Arrente > ntyanga - Eastern Arrente > pudna - Kau > thumpii - Paakantyi > > (I liked that last one :-) > > Waterlily flower > > waakwak - Dat > > (And that one :-) > > River > > balun - Bun > bila - Wir > bilu - Nyu > karirrhi - Diy > kurang pirr - Wem > mayang - Dat > ngipilinh - Mur > paaka - Paakantyi > parri - Kau > riyala - Dat > warlibirri - Goo > wo'uw - Wik > > Riverbank > > arnkarre - Eastern Arrente > (that was a good one eh? ;-) > > > Have fun, > Marky. > > -- > > ____ --------------------- > / /\ addinall engineering > / / \ mark addinall > / / \ addinall@tik.com.au > / / \ 0417 795 327 > / / /\ \ satellite > / L / / \ E \ wireless > / E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN > / D / / \ \ C \ project design > / O / / \ \ H \ project management > / G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems > / / / \ \ R \ C programming > / / / \ \ \ unix administration > / / / \ \ \ perl > / / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd, > / `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux > / B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN > '----------------------------' \ \ ------------------- > \ \ / > \________________________________\/
Re: Names for colours
Author: Ananke
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:43
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:43
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On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:06:44 +0800, Mark Addinall <addinall@tik.com.au> wrote: >Tinkerer wrote: >> >> > The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from >> water, >> > like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that. >> >> Wallan - Australian aboriginal meaning water (wallan wallan = lots of water) > >Whereabouts? Just curious. > >Water Rat > >kurumburt - Wembawemba >muuluru - Paakantyi > >Water > >anheme - Eastern Arrente >badu - Sydney >bawa - Yindjibarndi >galiyn - Wir How is that pronounced? I assume Wir is Wiradjuri? >gamba - Goo >gapu - Dat >guhtj - Bun >kabi - Nyu >kali - Ngi >katen - Wem >kwatye - Eastern Arrente >ngapa - Diy >ngarkula - Dat >ngipilinh - Mur >nguku - Paakantyi >ni - Merr >tharr - Mur >urewe - Eastern Arrente >wata - Tor > >Water hole > >gamba - Goo >kalkaay - Ngi >luthak - Wem >ngentye - Eastern Arrente >ntyanga - Eastern Arrente >pudna - Kau >thumpii - Paakantyi > >(I liked that last one :-) > >Waterlily flower > >waakwak - Dat > >(And that one :-) > >River > >balun - Bun I like that one, bit out of the way for a Victorian rat, though... >bila - Wir >bilu - Nyu >karirrhi - Diy >kurang pirr - Wem >mayang - Dat >ngipilinh - Mur >paaka - Paakantyi >parri - Kau >riyala - Dat >warlibirri - Goo >wo'uw - Wik > >Riverbank > >arnkarre - Eastern Arrente >(that was a good one eh? ;-) Sounds oddly familiar... >Have fun, >Marky. It just got worse ;-) How about words for 'blue' or 'sky'? He is blue, afterall. This is the page I was using to refer to areas and histories... http://www.dnathan.com/VL/byLang.htm Can't find much Warrung stuff at all :-( Cheers, Ana Remember the last time you were sane and well rested, and act like that. farrall at dingoblue dot net dot au http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~farrall
Re: Names for colours
Author: Mark Addinall
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:25
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:25
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Tinkerer wrote:
>
> About 40k north of melbourne. I used to live near there (Kilmore)
Thank you. Every little hole filled in is a part of a wall :-)
Marky.
>
> "Mark Addinall" <addinall@tik.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3C31DE94.CA31B3F6@tik.com.au...
> > Tinkerer wrote:
> > >
> > > > The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from
> > > water,
> > > > like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that.
> > >
> > > Wallan - Australian aboriginal meaning water (wallan wallan = lots of
> water)
> >
> > Whereabouts? Just curious.
> >
> > Water Rat
> >
> > kurumburt - Wembawemba
> > muuluru - Paakantyi
> >
> > Water
> >
> > anheme - Eastern Arrente
> > badu - Sydney
> > bawa - Yindjibarndi
> > galiyn - Wir
> > gamba - Goo
> > gapu - Dat
> > guhtj - Bun
> > kabi - Nyu
> > kali - Ngi
> > katen - Wem
> > kwatye - Eastern Arrente
> > ngapa - Diy
> > ngarkula - Dat
> > ngipilinh - Mur
> > nguku - Paakantyi
> > ni - Merr
> > tharr - Mur
> > urewe - Eastern Arrente
> > wata - Tor
> >
> > Water hole
> >
> > gamba - Goo
> > kalkaay - Ngi
> > luthak - Wem
> > ngentye - Eastern Arrente
> > ntyanga - Eastern Arrente
> > pudna - Kau
> > thumpii - Paakantyi
> >
> > (I liked that last one :-)
> >
> > Waterlily flower
> >
> > waakwak - Dat
> >
> > (And that one :-)
> >
> > River
> >
> > balun - Bun
> > bila - Wir
> > bilu - Nyu
> > karirrhi - Diy
> > kurang pirr - Wem
> > mayang - Dat
> > ngipilinh - Mur
> > paaka - Paakantyi
> > parri - Kau
> > riyala - Dat
> > warlibirri - Goo
> > wo'uw - Wik
> >
> > Riverbank
> >
> > arnkarre - Eastern Arrente
> > (that was a good one eh? ;-)
> >
> >
> > Have fun,
> > Marky.
> >
> > --
> >
> > ____ ---------------------
> > / /\ addinall engineering
> > / / \ mark addinall
> > / / \ addinall@tik.com.au
> > / / \ 0417 795 327
> > / / /\ \ satellite
> > / L / / \ E \ wireless
> > / E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN
> > / D / / \ \ C \ project design
> > / O / / \ \ H \ project management
> > / G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems
> > / / / \ \ R \ C programming
> > / / / \ \ \ unix administration
> > / / / \ \ \ perl
> > / / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd,
> > / `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux
> > / B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN
> > '----------------------------' \ \ -------------------
> > \ \ /
> > \________________________________\/
--
____ ---------------------
/ /\ addinall engineering
/ / \ mark addinall
/ / \ addinall@tik.com.au
/ / \ 0417 795 327
/ / /\ \ satellite
/ L / / \ E \ wireless
/ E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN
/ D / / \ \ C \ project design
/ O / / \ \ H \ project management
/ G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems
/ / / \ \ R \ C programming
/ / / \ \ \ unix administration
/ / / \ \ \ perl
/ / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd,
/ `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux
/ B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN
'----------------------------' \ \ -------------------
\ \ /
\________________________________\/
Re: Names for colours
Author: Mark Addinall
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:34
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:34
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Ananke wrote:
>
> On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:06:44 +0800, Mark Addinall <addinall@tik.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Tinkerer wrote:
> >>
> >> > The name for the young lad from Benalla, who is "blue" should be one from
> >> water,
> >> > like a river, creek, billabong, or something like that.
> >>
> >> Wallan - Australian aboriginal meaning water (wallan wallan = lots of water)
> >
> >Whereabouts? Just curious.
> >
> >Water Rat
> >
> >kurumburt - Wembawemba
> >muuluru - Paakantyi
> >
> >Water
> >
> >anheme - Eastern Arrente
> >badu - Sydney
> >bawa - Yindjibarndi
> >galiyn - Wir
>
> How is that pronounced? I assume Wir is Wiradjuri?
Correct.
GAL-lin-Jhun
As far as I can tell.
>
> >gamba - Goo
> >gapu - Dat
> >guhtj - Bun
> >kabi - Nyu
> >kali - Ngi
> >katen - Wem
> >kwatye - Eastern Arrente
> >ngapa - Diy
> >ngarkula - Dat
> >ngipilinh - Mur
> >nguku - Paakantyi
> >ni - Merr
> >tharr - Mur
> >urewe - Eastern Arrente
> >wata - Tor
> >
> >Water hole
> >
> >gamba - Goo
> >kalkaay - Ngi
> >luthak - Wem
> >ngentye - Eastern Arrente
> >ntyanga - Eastern Arrente
> >pudna - Kau
> >thumpii - Paakantyi
> >
> >(I liked that last one :-)
> >
> >Waterlily flower
> >
> >waakwak - Dat
> >
> >(And that one :-)
> >
> >River
> >
> >balun - Bun
>
> I like that one, bit out of the way for a Victorian rat, though...
Trust ye not your rattus ;-)
>
> >bila - Wir
> >bilu - Nyu
> >karirrhi - Diy
> >kurang pirr - Wem
> >mayang - Dat
> >ngipilinh - Mur
> >paaka - Paakantyi
> >parri - Kau
> >riyala - Dat
> >warlibirri - Goo
> >wo'uw - Wik
> >
> >Riverbank
> >
> >arnkarre - Eastern Arrente
> >(that was a good one eh? ;-)
>
> Sounds oddly familiar...
Thought it might :-)
Very odd language that one.
>
> >Have fun,
> >Marky.
>
> It just got worse ;-) How about words for 'blue' or 'sky'? He is blue,
> afterall. This is the page I was using to refer to areas and histories...
> http://www.dnathan.com/VL/byLang.htm Can't find much Warrung stuff at all :-(
Gimmiw some time. Dracula and other things are taking up time.
Have fun with the walnut.
Kep wel yu,
Marky.
>
> Cheers, Ana
>
> Remember the last time you were sane and well rested,
> and act like that.
> farrall at dingoblue dot net dot au
> http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~farrall
--
____ ---------------------
/ /\ addinall engineering
/ / \ mark addinall
/ / \ addinall@tik.com.au
/ / \ 0417 795 327
/ / /\ \ satellite
/ L / / \ E \ wireless
/ E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN
/ D / / \ \ C \ project design
/ O / / \ \ H \ project management
/ G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems
/ / / \ \ R \ C programming
/ / / \ \ \ unix administration
/ / / \ \ \ perl
/ / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd,
/ `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux
/ B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN
'----------------------------' \ \ -------------------
\ \ /
\________________________________\/
Re: Names for colours
Author: Val
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:29
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:29
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Ananke wrote: > > > >balun - Bun > > I like that one, bit out of the way for a Victorian rat, though... > "balun" is a radio component also (kind of transformer for high frequency), and this is in the english language. You will (probably) find it in a tchnical dictionary... V.
Re: Names for colours
Author: John Atkinson
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:43
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:43
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Mark Addinall wrote: > > Ananke wrote: > > > > On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:06:44 +0800, Mark Addinall wrote: > > > > > >Water > > > > > >anheme - Eastern Arrente > > >badu - Sydney > > >bawa - Yindjibarndi > > >galiyn - Wir > > > > How is that pronounced? I assume Wir is Wiradjuri? > > Correct. > > GAL-lin-Jhun > > As far as I can tell. I think not. The "yn" is the palatal nasal (like the ny in canyon). It's usually written "ny" in transliterations of Australian languages, but some use the convention of swapping the n and the y when this sound occurs at the end of words, so that monolingual English speakers won't be tempted to pronounce the last part the same as in "felony". Since few non-linguist English speakers can distinguish the palatal nasal at the end of a word, you can probably get away with "gah-leen" I'm not sure about the stress, but most Wiradhuri words have it on the first syllable -- unless the second vowel is long (as it is in bila: = casuarina species -- spelt belah in English) > > > > > >River > > > > > >bila - Wir > > Here the a is short, so it's not homonymous with the tree! This has the variant bilabang, which has of course been borrowed into Australian English as billabong. Around Wellington (NE dialect of Wir), it meant "milky way" (the big river in the sky) John.
Re: Names for colours
Author: Mark Addinall
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 05:50
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 05:50
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John Atkinson wrote:
>
> Mark Addinall wrote:
> >
> > Ananke wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:06:44 +0800, Mark Addinall wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Water
> > > >
> > > >anheme - Eastern Arrente
> > > >badu - Sydney
> > > >bawa - Yindjibarndi
> > > >galiyn - Wir
> > >
> > > How is that pronounced? I assume Wir is Wiradjuri?
> >
> > Correct.
> >
> > GAL-lin-Jhun
> >
> > As far as I can tell.
>
> I think not. The "yn" is the palatal nasal (like the ny in canyon).
> It's usually written "ny" in transliterations of Australian languages,
> but some use the convention of swapping the n and the y when this sound
> occurs at the end of words, so that monolingual English speakers won't
> be tempted to pronounce the last part the same as in "felony".
>
> Since few non-linguist English speakers can distinguish the palatal
> nasal at the end of a word, you can probably get away with "gah-leen"
>
> I'm not sure about the stress, but most Wiradhuri words have it on the
> first syllable -- unless the second vowel is long (as it is in bila: =
> casuarina species -- spelt belah in English)
> > > >
> > > >River
> > > >
> > > >bila - Wir
> > >
> Here the a is short, so it's not homonymous with the tree!
>
> This has the variant bilabang, which has of course been borrowed into
> Australian English as billabong.
>
> Around Wellington (NE dialect of Wir), it meant "milky way" (the big
> river in the sky)
Thank you. I have never met a Wir speaker. I am more familiar with
Datiwuy and make the great mistake of (not) thinking all aboriginal
languages should sound the same as East Arnhem land.
Mark.
>
> John.
--
____ ---------------------
/ /\ addinall engineering
/ / \ mark addinall
/ / \ addinall@tik.com.au
/ / \ 0417 795 327
/ / /\ \ satellite
/ L / / \ E \ wireless
/ E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN
/ D / / \ \ C \ project design
/ O / / \ \ H \ project management
/ G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems
/ / / \ \ R \ C programming
/ / / \ \ \ unix administration
/ / / \ \ \ perl
/ / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd,
/ `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux
/ B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN
'----------------------------' \ \ -------------------
\ \ /
\________________________________\/
Re: Names for colours
Author: John Atkinson
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:52
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:52
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"Ananke" <FarrallNO@SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote
>
> It just got worse ;-) How about words for 'blue' or 'sky'? He is blue,
> afterall. This is the page I was using to refer to areas and histories...
> http://www.dnathan.com/VL/byLang.htm Can't find much Warrung stuff at all
:-(
Just about all that's been recorded is collected by Barry Blake in
"Woiwurrung, the Melbourne language" in vol 4 of "The Handbook of Australian
Languages", ed RMW Dixon and Blake, Oxford, 1991.
For other extinct and near extinct Victorian languages, a good reference is
Louise Hercus "Victorian Languages, a Late Survey" (Canberra: Pacific
Linguistics, 1986; earlier edition, Australian Institute of Aboriginal
studies, 1969)
As you know, Woiwurrung divides into two dialects (among others), Woiwurrung
("the Melbourne Language") and Thagungwurrung ("the Goulburn River
Language), the division apparently lying along the Great Dividing Range.
Here's some words from Blake:
black, blue: wurrgurdin (W only), wurrga(rra)bil (both W and T)
green: wurrwarrin (W), wunwarren (W)
(all these look like they could be variants of the same term)
water: baany (ny = palatal nasal) (W,T)
waterhole: "tam-boore" (W) (phonemization unclear)
sky: wurru-wurru (W,T)
No word seems to have been recorded for "river"
John.
Re: Names for colours
Author: Mark Addinall
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:42
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:42
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John Atkinson wrote:
>
> "Ananke" <FarrallNO@SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote
> >
> > It just got worse ;-) How about words for 'blue' or 'sky'? He is blue,
> > afterall. This is the page I was using to refer to areas and histories...
> > http://www.dnathan.com/VL/byLang.htm Can't find much Warrung stuff at all
> :-(
>
> Just about all that's been recorded is collected by Barry Blake in
> "Woiwurrung, the Melbourne language" in vol 4 of "The Handbook of Australian
> Languages", ed RMW Dixon and Blake, Oxford, 1991.
>
> For other extinct and near extinct Victorian languages, a good reference is
> Louise Hercus "Victorian Languages, a Late Survey" (Canberra: Pacific
> Linguistics, 1986; earlier edition, Australian Institute of Aboriginal
> studies, 1969)
>
> As you know, Woiwurrung divides into two dialects (among others), Woiwurrung
> ("the Melbourne Language") and Thagungwurrung ("the Goulburn River
> Language), the division apparently lying along the Great Dividing Range.
>
> Here's some words from Blake:
>
> black, blue: wurrgurdin (W only), wurrga(rra)bil (both W and T)
> green: wurrwarrin (W), wunwarren (W)
> (all these look like they could be variants of the same term)
>
> water: baany (ny = palatal nasal) (W,T)
> waterhole: "tam-boore" (W) (phonemization unclear)
> sky: wurru-wurru (W,T)
>
> No word seems to have been recorded for "river"
Very interesting. Thank you. For some bizarre reason all the
literature I have collected stops at the Murray.
Off for another search!
Mark.
>
> John.
--
____ ---------------------
/ /\ addinall engineering
/ / \ mark addinall
/ / \ addinall@tik.com.au
/ / \ 0417 795 327
/ / /\ \ satellite
/ L / / \ E \ wireless
/ E / /\ \ S \ WAN/LAN
/ D / / \ \ C \ project design
/ O / / \ \ H \ project management
/ G / / \ \ E \ embedded systems
/ / / \ \ R \ C programming
/ / / \ \ \ unix administration
/ / / \ \ \ perl
/ / / \ \ \ solaris, linux, bsd,
/ `-------------------\ \ \ sco, aix. hp-ux
/ B A C H \ \ \ TCP/IP. X.25, VPN
'----------------------------' \ \ -------------------
\ \ /
\________________________________\/
Re: Names for colours
Author: Ananke
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:28
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:28
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On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:52:44 +1100, "John Atkinson" <johna@bigpond.com> wrote:
>"Ananke" <FarrallNO@SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote
>>
>> It just got worse ;-) How about words for 'blue' or 'sky'? He is blue,
>> afterall. This is the page I was using to refer to areas and histories...
>> http://www.dnathan.com/VL/byLang.htm Can't find much Warrung stuff at all
>:-(
>
>Just about all that's been recorded is collected by Barry Blake in
>"Woiwurrung, the Melbourne language" in vol 4 of "The Handbook of Australian
>Languages", ed RMW Dixon and Blake, Oxford, 1991.
>
>For other extinct and near extinct Victorian languages, a good reference is
>Louise Hercus "Victorian Languages, a Late Survey" (Canberra: Pacific
>Linguistics, 1986; earlier edition, Australian Institute of Aboriginal
>studies, 1969)
It's a crying shame. Apparently they even had their own taxonomies for the
animals they knew, all lost.
>As you know, Woiwurrung divides into two dialects (among others), Woiwurrung
>("the Melbourne Language") and Thagungwurrung ("the Goulburn River
>Language), the division apparently lying along the Great Dividing Range.
How curious. A reference I use for native rat names is "Australian names for
Australian rodents", published by the Australian Nature Conservation Agency and
the CSIRO. I've found it fascinating, not only for the info and names of native
rodents, but also the history and pronunciations. My main interest is the rats,
but I can see myself being slowly but surely dragged into the whole anthropology
scene.
The languages mentioned in the paper include Peek Warrung, Woiwarrung and Wada
Warrung. Unfortunately our local library has bugger all in the way of
information, but I can see the librarians being enthusiastic about being given
long lists of references to transfer in. (Anthropology and language -after- the
maths.)
>Here's some words from Blake:
>
>black, blue: wurrgurdin (W only), wurrga(rra)bil (both W and T)
I understand the rr needs to be rolled substantially, but how does the r affect
the g, is the g soft or hard and which syllable has the emphasis?
>green: wurrwarrin (W), wunwarren (W)
>(all these look like they could be variants of the same term)
>
>water: baany (ny = palatal nasal) (W,T)
>waterhole: "tam-boore" (W) (phonemization unclear)
>sky: wurru-wurru (W,T)
>
>No word seems to have been recorded for "river"
>
>John.
Thankyou John. Thanks also to Jacques for suggesting the enquiry. Enquiry or
inquiry?
Ana
Remember the last time you were sane and well rested,
and act like that.
farrall at dingoblue dot net dot au
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~farrall
Re: Names for colours
Author: John Atkinson
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:53
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:53
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5340 bytes
Ananke wrote:
>
> "John Atkinson" <johna@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >"Ananke" <FarrallNO@SPAMdingoblue.net.au> wrote
> >>
> >> It just got worse ;-) How about words for 'blue' or 'sky'? He is blue,
> >> afterall. This is the page I was using to refer to areas and histories...
> >> http://www.dnathan.com/VL/byLang.htm Can't find much Warrung stuff at all
> >:-(
> >
> >Just about all that's been recorded is collected by Barry Blake in
> >"Woiwurrung, the Melbourne language" in vol 4 of "The Handbook of Australian
> >Languages", ed RMW Dixon and Blake, Oxford, 1991.
> >
> >For other extinct and near extinct Victorian languages, a good reference is
> >Louise Hercus "Victorian Languages, a Late Survey" (Canberra: Pacific
> >Linguistics, 1986; earlier edition, Australian Institute of Aboriginal
> >studies, 1969)
>
> It's a crying shame. Apparently they even had their own taxonomies for the
> animals they knew, all lost.
>
> >As you know, Woiwurrung divides into two dialects (among others), Woiwurrung
> >("the Melbourne Language") and Thagungwurrung ("the Goulburn River
> >Language), the division apparently lying along the Great Dividing Range.
>
> How curious. A reference I use for native rat names is "Australian names for
> Australian rodents", published by the Australian Nature Conservation Agency and
> the CSIRO. I've found it fascinating, not only for the info and names of native
> rodents, but also the history and pronunciations. My main interest is the rats,
> but I can see myself being slowly but surely dragged into the whole anthropology
> scene.
>
> The languages mentioned in the paper include Peek Warrung, Woiwarrung and Wada
> Warrung.
IIRC, the others you mention were around the bay, south of Woiwurrung.
But see Blake, who discusses the various names that have come down to
us, in particular which were "language" names, and which were groups
named after the locality where they hung out, or whatever. Most of the
language that got recorded was apparently either Woiwurrung or
Thagungwurrung though.
> Unfortunately our local library has bugger all in the way of
> information, but I can see the librarians being enthusiastic about being given
> long lists of references to transfer in. (Anthropology and language -after- the
> maths.)
>
> >Here's some words from Blake:
> >
> >black, blue: wurrgurdin (W only), wurrga(rra)bil (both W and T)
>
> I understand the rr needs to be rolled substantially,
Yep, that's the case in most Australian languages
but how does the r affect
> the g
not much, probably (you mean rr, I presume -- /r/ and /rr/ are different
phonemes)
>, is the g soft or hard
"hard" (like in "got")
> and which syllable has the emphasis?
Can't remember if Blake was able to deduce any rules for stress in this
language, but most east coast languages seemed to have:
(1) Stress the syllable with a long vowel; if all vowels short, then
(2) for roots with 3 syllables, stress the second syllable; else
(3) put primary stress on first syllable.
Other languages had stress on first syllable even for roots with odd
numbers of syllables.
But you have to remember that just about all we have for this language
is old wordlists (and a little grammar) written down in the nineteenth
century by people with little or no linguistic expertise. Some of them
(like the famous Robinson) were little more than semi-literate even in
English.
So the spellings Barry Blake gives are usually no more than his best
guess for a word which, if it exists in more than one list, tends to be
spelt differently in each. He has proposed a phoneme list for the
language based on those of other better-known languages in the region.
I suspect he's got the consonants pretty right, but he's been unable to
determine whether there were vowels /e/ and /o/ (and/or, possibly,
schwa) in addition to the obvious /a/, /i/, /u/.
John.
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