🚀 go-pugleaf

On Jul 28, 8:47 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 12:04 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 3:23 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 27, 10:42 pm, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 27, 10:53 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 25, 4:10 am, Loui...@edu.herlufsholm.dk wrote:
>
> > > > > > ARE ELECTRONS PHYSICAL ENTITIES?
> > > > > > If an electron is a physical matter-/energy ‘particle’ then it MUST
> > > > > > have a maybe not definite mean geometrical extension.
>
> > > > > Why?
>
> > > > > If you think about it, volume is a property that only applies to
> > > > > objects and substances that are *known* to be composites, and the
> > > > > dimensions of that object are driven not by the size of the more
> > > > > elemental constituents but by the *interaction* between them.
>
> > > > > Let's take a chain to illustrate:
> > > > > A crystal of table sugar has geometric extension, but this is due to
> > > > > the intermolecular spacing between sucrose molecules. The molecules
> > > > > are not in direct shoulder-to-shoulder contact, but rather their
> > > > > spacing is given by intermolecular forces.
>
> > > > > The sucrose molecule has physical extent by virtue of the interatomic
> > > > > bond lengths in the sucrose molecule. Those bond lengths between
> > > > > carbon and hydrogen in the sucrose are due to where the energetic
> > > > > minimum is in the *interaction* between the carbon and hydrogen atoms,
> > > > > not because that's where their electron shells bump up against each
> > > > > other. Refer to a basic chemistry book.
>
> > > > > The size of the carbon atom is governed not by the size of the nucleus
> > > > > and the electrons, but by the nature of the electromagnetic
> > > > > *interaction* between them. When the nucleus and and the electrons are
> > > > > at their point of closest approach, the dimensions of the nucleus is
> > > > > still 100,000 times smaller than where the electron sits. The atom is
> > > > > a composite whose size is governed by the *interaction* between it's
> > > > > constituents.
>
> > > > > The nucleus is a composite. It's size is governed not by the size of
> > > > > protons and neutrons rubbing side by side, but by the *interaction*
> > > > > between them.
>
> > > > > The proton is a composite of quarks and gluons. The proton's size of
> > > > > one femtometer is not controlled by the size of the quarks and gluons
> > > > > inside it, but by the *interaction* between them. Every measurement we
> > > > > have says that quarks and gluons are *at least* a thousand times
> > > > > smaller than their average distance between them in the proton.
>
> > > > > There is simply no reason to assume that fundamental particles MUST
> > > > > have physical extent, since physical extent is a result of
> > > > > *interaction* between inner constituents.
>
> > > > > PD
>
> > > > > > THE STANDARD-MODEL IS NOT ULTIMATE, MAYBE WRONG?
> > > > > > It is in the not ultimate standard-model of ‘elementary-particles’
> > > > > > that an electron is described without a physical geometrical
> > > > > > extension.
> > > > > > In the standard-model of ‘elementary-particles’ the electron is
> > > > > > described as a ‘point-particle’ that have been given AD HOC physical
> > > > > > properties as mass, electric charge, spin, magnetic moment etc.
>
> > > > > > It must be time experimentally to discover the ‘true’ nature of the
> > > > > > electron!
>
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Louis Nielsen
> > > > > > Denmark
>
> > > > -----------------
> > > > Bravo   !!
>
> > > > so not a point particle   anymore !!  (:-)
>
> > > We don't know. We don't have any experimental evidence that it has any
> > > spatial extent.
>
> > > > and you start understand that you still dont know enough
> > > > and there i s  work to do ahead
>
> > > Of course. That is always the case and will always be the case. There
> > > are a number of possibilities, however, that we are quite sure we can
> > > rule out.
>
> > > > Y.P
> > > > ----------------------------
>
> > common PD
> > i started to praise you and now you draw back to the
> > 'point particle '???
> > a point is zero volume and therfore cant have any physical properties
>
> I don't know why you would say that. I just got done explaining that
> volume is a property of *composite* objects only and volume is an
> artifact of *interactions* between constituents. Now you go and say
> that nothing can have physical properties unless it has volume. I
> don't know where you go about making that assumption.
>
> If you are doing it on the basis of surveying those things that you
> know from your *common experience*, note that absolutely everything
> you know from your common experience is a composite object. However,
> to extrapolate from your common experience to make an absolute
> statement is dangerous. It might well be that in your common
> experience, absolutely every mammal gives live birth to their young,
> including sheep, dogs, humans, giraffes, lemurs, rhinos, whales, bats,
> and armadillos. However, it would be a mistake to then say on the
> basis of this survey that there can be no mammal that does not give
> live birth to its young.
>
> Extrapolation from the common to the general is a popular mistake but
> one that should be warned against on all occasions.
>
> PD
>
> > and cant emit any energy from itself
> > it is not a billiard ball as well
> > so at the good case
> > an honest scientist should say
> > 'i have no idea about the geometric structure of the electron'
> > because it is too illusive for me '
> > i can only know some physical  properties of it '
>
> > ATB
> > Y.Porat
> > ------------------------------

i am the last one to   tell   him that
we cannot extrarpolate  endlessly in physics

anyway
 if you think that a' point'   is a physical entity
and not a **human artifact**  welcome   !!

anyway
as i see this thread is going to be erased in two days
(so we are wasting our typing .....)
so may be we should go on with that in another thread

ATB
Y.Porat
-------------------