🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <4bcv1j$jln@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, Michael Kyba <kyba@bcu.ubc.ca> wrote:
 
> CUPE 116, worried that actually giving students the possibility
> of buying some food fit for human consumption from someone
> with good personal hygene and a friendly smile to boot might
> take business away from their own stagnant unionized cafeterias,
> launched a grievance.
> 
> The university I am told, not wanting to have to take this case go
> to binding arbitration that might result in weakening their hand
> re. outside workers, caved in.
> 
> Where do students and UBC denziens in general stand?  First they
> took away our choice between Pepsi and Coke.  Then, the prices
> of soft drinks from the machines went up ten cents all over campus.

If the guy was truly an entrepreneur "standing out there in the rain"
etc., then why was it that all I ever saw was his employees?  You fail to
consider some of the problems encountered by allowing him to be there. 
First, he paid minimum wage to some girl who worked the cart most of the
time for him... no benefits, no nothing.  meanwhile, the university is
forced to honor a collective agreement between the people who earn their
living by serving the food in the legitimate outlets on campus.  I just
know that if the Tubesteak operation was to be forced to play on an "even
playing field", you'd have no problem supporting his operation by paying
more for the service, the product and " some food fit for human
consumption from someone with good personal hygene and a friendly smile to
boot", right?  And also that he pay his fair share of the expenses in the
general operation of the university services.  After all, the guy who
appears at "gravy time" should also contribute towards the cost of
financing the less profitable hours for the benefit of those who need to
eat outside of peak hours, right?

> Doesn't anybody seem to care about the Evils of Monopolies?
> Union monopolies, Coke monopolies, they all accomplish the same
> thing: less choice, higher prices, poorer service.

Sure!  And if Mr. Tubesteak will make an equivalent "donation" to the
university  as did Coke, I'm sure there won't be any problem having Mr.
Tubesteak appointed the "official" hot dog at UBC either.

> What about the imorality of this whole sordid affair?  Judging
> by the success of his operation, the Mr. Tubesteak guy was providing
> a service that people really valued.  While it's to be expected from
> CUPE 116, it's astounding to me to see the administration punishing
> excellence through hard work and initiative, while rewarding sloth,
> laziness, and back room dealing.
> 
> Why is it that Special Interest Groups seem to run everything on
> this campus?  Doesn't anybody realize that there are students out
> here?  This shocking lack of respect for student choice really
> should be addressed.

Absolutely right.  I think that we should make more choices available, and
have the students pay the price for that.  I think that my special
interest group (The Committee To Have Students Pay Full Value For
Education) should be heard too.

Your own student organization authorized the Coke deal, and the fact that
the workers organized to form a union to improve their conditions seems to
have eluded you.  If you look down the road of your own past history,
you'll likely find that at some point, the sacrifices and collective
bargaining by some union, somewhere is responsible in some small part for
your even being there.

> Let's keep this guy on our campus.

Absolutely.  And ensure that he gets no "free ride" at the expense of
those who legitimately pay the price to hawk their wares at UBC.  Let's
make sure that this guy pays his staff fairly, provides the same benefits
and security that the university does, and pays for the right (like Coke
did) to even show his face out there.  And when he's truly in a
competitive mode, let's welcome him with open arms.  Are we willing to
shell out $6.00 for that hot dog?

George

=====================================================================
George Johansen - johansen@portal.ca  or  repressed@eworld.com

The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the official 
platform or policy of any political party or company.
=====================================================================

johansen@portal.ca (George Johansen) wrote:

> You fail to
>consider some of the problems encountered by allowing him to be there. 
>First, he paid minimum wage to some girl who worked the cart most of the
>time for him... no benefits, no nothing.

Typical of the weak socialist mind:  make a statement that you THINK
must be true because, hey, those damn bloody capitalist pigs are just
trying to screw the whole world.  If you cared enough about people
to have actually had a conversation with her (instead of mentally
conscripting her into your army of oppressed, downtrodden workers)
you would know that her name was Glenna, and that she enjoyed very
much what she was doing.  The guy who owned the cart was in fact
there just as much as she was, and treated her fairly and with respect,
and not with the contempt that you thought you observed (or deduced.)


>university is
>forced to honor a collective agreement between the people who earn their
>living by serving the food in the legitimate outlets on campus.  

By what right, (BY	WHAT RIGHT!) does the union, this anti-democratic
body, think it can exclude other people from working on campus.
Campus does not belong to them.  By what right does the administration
go about it's double-dealing making back room arrangements with companies
(Coke) and unions (CUPE 116) to the screwation of students?  

Nobody seems to give a damn flying fart about the students on this campus.  
We liked Mr. Tubesteak.  We wanted to buy his food.  Some of us don't want
to pay through the nose so that food services can provide jobs to over
paid burger slinkers.  Competition on campus can only benefit students.


>Sure!  And if Mr. Tubesteak will make an equivalent "donation" to the
>university  as did Coke, I'm sure there won't be any problem having Mr.
>Tubesteak appointed the "official" hot dog at UBC either.

Why do you socialists insist on having official sanction from above
for every little thing.  Why not have a variety of food venders on
campus, competing with eachother for student dollars.  If they all
want to sell hot dogs, let them.  The administration has no business
designating an official hot dog, an official soft drink supplier, or
another one that I just remembered, an official long-distance company
for student consumption.

>Absolutely right.  I think that we should make more choices available, and
>have the students pay the price for that.

The 'price' would be better service, more choice, and lower prices
because venders would have to be consumer-oriented to make a profit.
They would have to sell students what students wanted.  As things
stand, Food Services rakes in the cash by overpricing the garbage
that students have no choice but to eat.

>Your own student organization authorized the Coke deal, 

What do you expect.  They are a pack of rabid communists.

>and the fact that
>the workers organized to form a union to improve their conditions seems to
>have eluded you.

Workers unionize to coerce their employers into paying them more.  We
have laws in this country that prevent improper working conditions and
worker exploitation.

>If you look down the road of your own past history,
>you'll likely find that at some point, the sacrifices and collective...

All you socialists can ever do is look to the past.  All you ever offer
are tired-out old ideas that don't work in the modern world.  Has anyone
out there heard ONE new idea from the left wing in this country in the
last decade?  Whenever anyone suggests that unions cause problems, we
get this 'without unions, workers will be exploited crap' that might
have been true before there was reasonable labour legislation in this
country, but is certainly not true any more.


>> Let's keep this guy on our campus.
>
>Absolutely.  <snip> Let's
>make sure that this guy pays his staff fairly, 

meddle

>provides the same benefits

meddle

>and security that the university does, 

meddle

>and pays for the right (like Coke
>did) to even show his face out there.  

meddle

>And when he's truly in a
>competitive mode, let's welcome him with open arms.  Are we willing to
>shell out $6.00 for that hot dog?

Meddle meddle meddle.  The weak socialist mind just can't fathom the
possibility that people can make their own choices about who to work
for or how much to pay for a hot dog.

Well that felt good.

Merry Christmas to all,

Michael Kyba

ps. don't forget mailto:presubc@unixg.ubc.ca

johansen@portal.ca (George Johansen) wrote:

>In article <4bcv1j$jln@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, Michael Kyba <kyba@bcu.ubc.ca> wrote:
> 
>> CUPE 116, worried that actually giving students the possibility
>> of buying some food fit for human consumption from someone
>> with good personal hygene and a friendly smile to boot might
>> take business away from their own stagnant unionized cafeterias,
>> launched a grievance.
>> 
>> The university I am told, not wanting to have to take this case go
>> to binding arbitration that might result in weakening their hand
>> re. outside workers, caved in.
>> 
>> Where do students and UBC denziens in general stand?  First they
>> took away our choice between Pepsi and Coke.  Then, the prices
>> of soft drinks from the machines went up ten cents all over campus.

>If the guy was truly an entrepreneur "standing out there in the rain"
>etc., then why was it that all I ever saw was his employees?  You fail to
>consider some of the problems encountered by allowing him to be there. 
>First, he paid minimum wage to some girl who worked the cart most of the
>time for him... no benefits, no nothing.  meanwhile, the university is
>forced to honor a collective agreement between the people who earn their
>living by serving the food in the legitimate outlets on campus.  I just
>know that if the Tubesteak operation was to be forced to play on an "even
>playing field", you'd have no problem supporting his operation by paying
>more for the service, the product and " some food fit for human
>consumption from someone with good personal hygene and a friendly smile to
>boot", right?  And also that he pay his fair share of the expenses in the
>general operation of the university services.  After all, the guy who
>appears at "gravy time" should also contribute towards the cost of
>financing the less profitable hours for the benefit of those who need to
>eat outside of peak hours, right?

>> Doesn't anybody seem to care about the Evils of Monopolies?
>> Union monopolies, Coke monopolies, they all accomplish the same
>> thing: less choice, higher prices, poorer service.

>Sure!  And if Mr. Tubesteak will make an equivalent "donation" to the
>university  as did Coke, I'm sure there won't be any problem having Mr.
>Tubesteak appointed the "official" hot dog at UBC either.

>> What about the imorality of this whole sordid affair?  Judging
>> by the success of his operation, the Mr. Tubesteak guy was providing
>> a service that people really valued.  While it's to be expected from
>> CUPE 116, it's astounding to me to see the administration punishing
>> excellence through hard work and initiative, while rewarding sloth,
>> laziness, and back room dealing.
>> 
>> Why is it that Special Interest Groups seem to run everything on
>> this campus?  Doesn't anybody realize that there are students out
>> here?  This shocking lack of respect for student choice really
>> should be addressed.

>Absolutely right.  I think that we should make more choices available, and
>have the students pay the price for that.  I think that my special
>interest group (The Committee To Have Students Pay Full Value For
>Education) should be heard too.

>Your own student organization authorized the Coke deal, and the fact that
>the workers organized to form a union to improve their conditions seems to
>have eluded you.  If you look down the road of your own past history,
>you'll likely find that at some point, the sacrifices and collective
>bargaining by some union, somewhere is responsible in some small part for
>your even being there.

>> Let's keep this guy on our campus.

>Absolutely.  And ensure that he gets no "free ride" at the expense of
>those who legitimately pay the price to hawk their wares at UBC.  Let's
>make sure that this guy pays his staff fairly, provides the same benefits
>and security that the university does, and pays for the right (like Coke
>did) to even show his face out there.  And when he's truly in a
>competitive mode, let's welcome him with open arms.  Are we willing to
>shell out $6.00 for that hot dog?

>George

>=====================================================================
>George Johansen - johansen@portal.ca  or  repressed@eworld.com

>The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the official 
>platform or policy of any political party or company.
>=====================================================================


Sheesssh George,  you went all over on this one to
the extent you forgot it was about being able to
buy a decent hot dog at a fair $ in the first
place.

Coming from Calgary where the 8th Ave mall has the
best hot dogs in the world, I was overjoyed when
Mr. Tube Steak stormed the walls at city hall and
had the condoms removed from the sidewalk weinies.

Can you imaging anything more rediculous than
watching a tourist from New York standing with a
bewildered look on his face at one of these
Sterile kiosks and being handed a soggy tastless
boiled two days old hot dog in a condom.  And then
the fit he would throw at the teenage kid asking
him for three loonies?

I saw just such a scene in Gastown a few years
back and thought to myself Bobit should have
cruised city hall with sicsors and roasted a few
of those weinies.

If our upstanding Cupe member would even fake it
for a minute that he cared an iota what the hot
dog tasted like he was serving, you would have
made some good points with your post.

However, indeology aside,  where do they get these
people from?  Somebody from the enlightened labour
scene should explain that one for the rest of the
world.  

What is this anyway?  A workers of the world
conspiracy to poison the bourgeois class with a
Pincer attack at our halls of learning and if we
don't get them there, we'll lay in an ambush for
them with slop on the ferries?

If you drove your bus with as little interest as
these people do their cooking you'd be off the
road George.

Aren't you taking this brother solitdarity thing a
little to far here?



Martin Burger, Managing Director
Nova Energy Ltd. The Blue Energy Company

Its time to use tidal power now!

Website:  http://www.3dvisions.com/webpages/nova.htm

johansen@portal.ca (George Johansen) wrote:


>> Let's keep this guy on our campus.

>Absolutely.  And ensure that he gets no "free ride" at the expense of
>those who legitimately pay the price to hawk their wares at UBC.  Let's
>make sure that this guy pays his staff fairly, provides the same benefits
>and security that the university does, and pays for the right (like Coke
>did) to even show his face out there.  And when he's truly in a
>competitive mode, let's welcome him with open arms.  Are we willing to
>shell out $6.00 for that hot dog?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that what happens when the unions get involved?

Steve

martin_burger@mindlink.bc.ca (Martin Burger) wrote:

>
>Sheesssh George,  you went all over on this one to
>the extent you forgot it was about being able to
>buy a decent hot dog at a fair $ in the first
>place.

and you were waiting as the ascii poured out onto your
vdt, not reading a word of George's post...squirming as
you do about how you are getting ripped off one way or
another.  By a conspiracy that is aimed at your 
entrepreneureal skills.  That's what I got out of all 
your Calgary horse-loftiness, anyway.  Klein and the
King Eddy bunch for bratwurst and beer. Heroes of the 
Little guy...gag...Too much Stampederism, I think. Ask
the Calgary Mall entrepreneurs just what they'd like to
count on...I am quite sure it wouldn't be anticipating your 
ability to determine that the best hot dog on the block is theirs.  
They'd want your wallet, I'd bet! 
>
>Coming from Calgary where the 8th Ave mall has the
>best hot dogs in the world, I was overjoyed when
>Mr. Tube Steak stormed the walls at city hall and
>had the condoms removed from the sidewalk weinies.
>
>Can you imaging anything more rediculous than
>watching a tourist from New York 

pardon me but who the hell cares if a tourist from
New York gets his ptomaine-enriched Times Square 
style doggie anywhere in the True North? 

standing with a
>bewildered look on his face at one of these
>Sterile kiosks and being handed a soggy tastless
>boiled two days old hot dog in a condom.  And then
>the fit he would throw at the teenage kid asking
>him for three loonies?

You, sir are projecting a bit, don't you THINK?
>
>I saw just such a scene in Gastown a few years
>back and thought to myself Bobit should have
>cruised city hall with sicsors and roasted a few
>of those weinies.

Your values are astounding yet surprisingly tasteless.

>If our upstanding Cupe member would even fake it
>for a minute that he cared an iota what the hot
>dog tasted like he was serving, you would have
>made some good points with your post.

You missed the point.  You're ranting now about frenchie
fried hotdoggies, not market forces.

>
>However, indeology aside,  where do they get these
>people from?  Somebody from the enlightened labour
>scene should explain that one for the rest of the
>world.

that which one was what?  
>
>What is this anyway?  A workers of the world
>conspiracy to poison the bourgeois class with a
>Pincer attack at our halls of learning and if we
>don't get them there, we'll lay in an ambush for
>them with slop on the ferries?

Piss on it, I'm gunna snip the rest of this drivvel...


>Martin Burger, Managing Director
>Nova Energy Ltd. The Blue Energy Company

The Chimp at Bob's place.

RW Mackie <rwmackie@orca.gov.bc.ca> wrote:

>Piss on it, I'm gunna snip the rest of this drivvel...

>The Chimp at Bob's place.

Merry Christmas BoB

Hope you and the chimp are well in the
Koootenays;)



Martin Burger, Managing Director
Nova Energy Ltd. The Blue Energy Company

Its time to use tidal power now!

Website:  http://www.3dvisions.com/webpages/nova.htm

tnr@infomatch.com (J. Chapman) wrote:


>Geez, take a few valium! 95 is almost over so I feel pretty
>secure in deciding the above posting wins my own personal
>"largest text with no meaning" award. Holy cow, there isn't
>a smidgen of meaning in the entire rant. 

I'll take whatever I can get as far as awards go, John.  Your'e
right of course, it was rant. and telling you confidentially, 
sometimes there's this 'chimp' factor jumps into things at this
terminal and takes over and types "put another log on the fire..."
"or try and get arty...or "testing, testing"

the chimp does not seethe, obviously.  Through it's veins and 
capilliaries courses the rich red velvet tide of the next step into 
humanity. It is inevitable, or so it says.  pretty dynamic notion of 
ascendency for a tree-dwelling gatherer, eh? 

BTW orca.gov.bc.ca
>sounds like sonething my taxes are paying for... is it?

I don't doubt that in many ways, all ISP's are subsidized by all 
of us. ha ha,ha...but...

orca.gov.bc.ca was brought into this and other bc communities over
the last eighteen months or so.  Now that a market is established,
the bc systems ISP will be leaving.  My $30/month 1hr-a-day in prime time
contract with bc.systems runs out in about a month.  I understand that 
they are now closing shop all over the whole province.  

I am in the process of signing onto a private server for 25%  more $$$, 
but about two times the price as what you can get it for in the 
southwestern part of bc.

I have heard of the possibility of other servers linking into our 
community.  By the way that local computer sellers are
hawking the Internet thing, no doubt competition will come and 
prices will tend to go down.  Still gonna be only X,000 households in our
community to serve, so I hope that nobody, market or server, gets
burned.  

BTW, If I'd known you were on the awards panel, I would have used my 
best modem.


Best in the new year! 

Bob in the Kootenays 

In message <4bfd91$ps5@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> - Michael Kyba <kyba@bcu.ubc.ca> writes
:
:>
:>johansen@portal.ca (George Johansen) wrote:
:>
:>> You fail to
:>>consider some of the problems encountered by allowing him to be there. 
:>>First, he paid minimum wage to some girl who worked the cart most of the
:>>time for him... no benefits, no nothing.
:>
:>Typical of the weak socialist mind:  make a statement that you THINK
:>must be true because, hey, those damn bloody capitalist pigs are just
:>trying to screw the whole world.  If you cared enough about people
:>to have actually had a conversation with her (instead of mentally
:>conscripting her into your army of oppressed, downtrodden workers)
:>you would know that her name was Glenna, and that she enjoyed very
:>much what she was doing.  The guy who owned the cart was in fact
:>there just as much as she was, and treated her fairly and with respect,
:>and not with the contempt that you thought you observed (or deduced.)
:>
:>

It is also untrue that she would have been getting no benefits. Provincial
law sets minimum benefit levels to be given to workers.

In message <1995Dec23.000207.7351@venus.gov.bc.ca> - RW Mackie <rwmackie@orca.g
ov.bc.ca> writes:
:>
:>martin_burger@mindlink.bc.ca (Martin Burger) wrote:
:>
:>>
:>>Sheesssh George,  you went all over on this one to
:>>the extent you forgot it was about being able to
:>>buy a decent hot dog at a fair $ in the first
:>>place.
:>
:>and you were waiting as the ascii poured out onto your
:>vdt, not reading a word of George's post...squirming as
:>you do about how you are getting ripped off one way or
:>another.  By a conspiracy that is aimed at your 
:>entrepreneureal skills.  That's what I got out of all 
:>your Calgary horse-loftiness, anyway.  Klein and the
:>King Eddy bunch for bratwurst and beer. Heroes of the 
:>Little guy...gag...Too much Stampederism, I think. Ask
:>the Calgary Mall entrepreneurs just what they'd like to
:>count on...I am quite sure it wouldn't be anticipating your 
:>ability to determine that the best hot dog on the block is theirs.  
:>They'd want your wallet, I'd bet! 
:>>

Geez, take a few valium! 95 is almost over so I feel pretty
secure in deciding the above posting wins my own personal
"largest text with no meaning" award. Holy cow, there isn't
a smidgen of meaning in the entire rant. BTW orca.gov.bc.ca
sounds like sonething my taxes are paying for... is it?

In article <4bihv0$8ve@berlin.infomatch.com>, tnr@infomatch.com (J.
Chapman) wrote:

> It is also untrue that she would have been getting no benefits. Provincial
> law sets minimum benefit levels to be given to workers.

Precisely.  The _absolute_ minimum I am sure.  

The university cannot take adavntage of that same provision.  It is
required to deliver a decent level of benefits such as pension and
disability.  The employee will have to deduct from her "minimum" level of
benefits and remuneration to make her own arrangements for retirement and
possibility of disability.  If she's able to do that, she won't be
demanding the indemnity from you and I via the welfare system on
retirement or periods of disability.  Of course the cost for her to do it
on her own is exponentially more than via a group plan, but assuming she
is committed to doing it, I'll wager she could clear as much as 3 or 4
dollars an hour to live on.

=====================================================================
George Johansen - johansen@portal.ca  or  repressed@eworld.com

The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the official 
platform or policy of any political party or company.
=====================================================================

In article <4bl379$1la@wolfe.wimsey.com>, sandyl@wimsey.com wrote:

> Thanks to people of your twisted mentality, she is now OUT OF A JOB.
> 
> Must feel good, eh, George ?

What a stupid response!... but then when the source is taken into account,
completely predictable.

Have a nice day! :-)

=====================================================================
George Johansen - johansen@portal.ca  or  repressed@eworld.com

The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the official 
platform or policy of any political party or company.
=====================================================================

johansen@portal.ca (George Johansen) wrote:

> but assuming she
>is committed to doing it, I'll wager she could clear as much as 3 or 4
>dollars an hour to live on.


Thanks to people of your twisted mentality, she is now OUT OF A JOB.

Must feel good, eh, George ?






sandy

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Civilization is the process of freeing man from men." Ayn Rand

George Johansen (johansen@portal.ca) wrote:
: What a stupid response!... but then when the source is taken into account,
: completely predictable.

: Have a nice day! :-)

Merry Christmas Sandy! =)

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lalee@opus.freenet.vancouver.bc.ca (Lawrence Lee) wrote:

>George Johansen (johansen@portal.ca) wrote:
>: What a stupid response!... but then when the source is taken into account,
>: completely predictable.

>: Have a nice day! :-)

>Merry Christmas Sandy! =)

And a Happy New Year to you ! :-)

In article <johansen-2412951935430001@d230.portal.ca>,
	johansen@portal.ca (George Johansen) writes:
>In article <4bl379$1la@wolfe.wimsey.com>, sandyl@wimsey.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks to people of your twisted mentality, she is now OUT OF A JOB.
>> 
>> Must feel good, eh, George ?
>
>What a stupid response!... but then when the source is taken into account,
>completely predictable.


What's so stupid about it? By your own admission, you ARE of the mentality
of the folks who caused her to be without a job. You ARE of the mentality
that cannot fathom the simplest concept of a marketplace without going
into seizures if some folks actually want to participate in it without
being dictated to by unions.

You control freaks are all the same, or near enough to be indistinguishable
from any other muggers or extortionistss.