🚀 go-pugleaf

(now I'm trying sans-serif stuff like Univers and Frutiger. I'm open to any kinds of suggestions as I don't think I have a good grasp of what fonts are suggestive of particular themes)

Univers Condensed has been my favorite attempt so far. Wonder if anyone else would consider it as a modern but conservative look.....

Univers is the one I prefer when absolutely forced to use a sans serif typeface. But that's hardly "internet age". It's been around for over half a century.

If you give specific details about how and where it is to be used, there are plenty of folks here who can make appropriate recommendations. When choosing a font one has to consider the message, the intended readership, the paper, its color, texture and weight, the ink, etc.

Incidentally, you must be looking at a cheap knockoff or pirated Univers if you have come across a Univers Condensed. That terminology is not used in the real typeface.

Its designer used numbers instead.

From the blurb at <http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/adobe/univers/> :


       With the release of Univers, Frutiger began using numbers rather than
      names to designate variations of weight, width, and slope. The full Univers
      family consists of twenty-one typefaces, and Frutiger has used this numerical
      system on other designs, including Serifa and Frutiger. Linotype also
      has adopted this numerical system for many other faces.

      All twenty-one Univers faces were designed to work together, so they can
      be mixed in a variety of ways. Their legibility lends itself to a large
      variety of applications, from text and headlines to packaging and signage.

ARPAnet started around 1969. That's my start for the internet, Univers 
was published around 1957. That is not too much off. :-)

Mike

" ... Univers Condensed. That terminology is not used in the real 
typeface. Its designer used numbers instead."

Yes, Frutiger used numbers, but most current implementations, 
including those from Agfa/Monotype and Linotype, use either the 
original numbers AND a text description or jus the text description in 
the font names. "Univers LT Std 57 Cn", for example. Neither foundry 
is known for cheap knockoffs or pirated copies :)

http://www.linotype.com/1560/univers-family.html
http://www.fonts.com/findfonts/detail.htm?pid=242536


   -Herb

Oh it's a legit version (just didn't think to post the whole name which was "47 Light Condensed Oblique" -- part of Univers LT Std).

I wasn't more specific about the project because I'm trying to learn to be better at picking fonts! :) I'm taking a design class and trying to design a logo for a business that's very conservative but also modern (an Internet bank). I didn't want to be *too* heavily influenced by suggestions (need to learn to pick for myself!) but wondered what fonts came to mind for other folks when I named that as a theme. Some websites list fonts by theme, but they tend to show only the most exaggerated fonts that fit that category. The logo's primarily a symbol so I have to pick something that isn't too decorative. I imagine if I posted the actual logo somebody out there could name the perfect font for it. But then I wouldn't have learned as much! I'm trying to learn to understand the "personality" of fonts better. I guess that's too broad a request. :-\

Wish there were more font-sites that would let you make a sample image of a few words in a particular font. So much easier to tell than by looking at the alphabet.

Thanks, Phyllis

BTW I often think of sans-serif fonts as looking more "modern" than serif fonts. The serif fonts just have a more traditional feel to me. Is that a skewed perspective? Hard to tell exactly where I picked up on that idea.

The actual age of a font doesn't matter much to me. If it works anything like fashion, old styles can quickly become the modern look again. :) But of course the highly decorative stuff would suggest specific eras.

Phyllis

Phyllis, 

      a logo for a business that's very conservative but also modern (an Internet
      bank)




Whichever font(s) you choose, purchase them from a legitimate foundry. You'll have better/more reliable font engineering and visual realization. Choose fonts based upon the company persona, readability, how they will be used (including different media -- print, signage, and Web; colors; materials; sizes; text density; etc.). Consider ALL possible uses for the font before deciding. A font doesn't have to have been designed in a particular year to be appropriate; it just has to "look" and "feel" right for your client and his needs.

Personally, I'm not a big Univers fan; it's looks a bit sterile for me. Other possibilities; fonts with a bit more "warmth" you may wish to explore that may work:

Scala Sans
Meta
Futura
Gill Sans
Cronos

Arno
Veljovic
Meridien
Warnock
Chaparral
Brioso

Neil

Phyllis, 

      Wish there were more font-sites that would let you make a sample image
      of a few words in a particular font. So much easier to tell than by looking
      at the alphabet




Go to myfonts.com. Choose the font; type in sample text and choose a size.

Neil

Neil,

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely look through those and see what I think. Yeah, Univers is a bit dull even if it's worked better than the others I've toyed with so far. It's certainly readable and doesn't detract from the icon I made. But I want more interest and warmth is a good way to go. I do want this to appear inviting. I appreciate the input! I'll go with a legitimate font-site. I don't care too much for the free fonts, and I can always use the font for something at work. :)

Thanks, Phyllis

Phyllis, 

      I don't care too much for the free fonts




Although there are some decent "free" fonts out there, all too often you just get what you pay for! <g> And with established foundries you have support if you have a problem.

Neil

Off the top of my head, the only bank that uses a sans serif is WaMu (Washington Mutual), but I'm not saying that's what led to its spectacular failure and collapse. :D

Yes, to my mind serif typefaces do have more of a feeling of solidity, permanence, purpose. But that's highly subjective, of course.

Ram�n, 

      the only bank that uses a sans serif is WaMu




Other big name U.S. banks with sans serif logos include: Chase, Citi, TD Bank and Bank of America.

Neil

Aha! You edited while I researched! :-P

I agree that authoritative serifs just "feel" right for banks.

Neil

I don't know, the way things are I think they should be using Comic 
Sans...Mike

:)

"I don't know, the way things are I think they should be using Comic
Sans...Mike"

And I considered a dry well or a sinking ship as the icon for this logo... ;-)

Phyllis,

As far as logo design goes, I don't know if you've seen this. It's from the Photoshop Lounge Resource Repository:

BLUDVLZ's Logo Manifesto

BLUDVLZ, "BLUDVLZ's Logo Manifesto" #1, 3 Aug 2003 8:23 am </webx?14@@.1dea2d83/0>

Good stuff.

Thanks!!! Definitely good information in there!

Phyllis

Phyllis

The great thing about the Univers family is that it will provide you with everything you need for corporate documentation as well as for display. One of the gripes information designers have about visual identity systems is that the house fonts chosen don't always offer the range of weights and variants to allow proper hierarchies that a complete visual identity system needs to provide. In fact, the last two systems I've worked on have include related sanserifs and seriffed designs for exactly this reason. For me, Univers, with its rational relationships of weights, does say something right about the 'internet age'. But perhaps you should avoid using the condensed versions except as logos; remember, you are doing as much damage to readability by condensing as if you were reducing the size - and reducing size allows you to retain the interline spacing and still get more words in! (BTW, to see a bank that's all [Neue] Helvetica, go to www.firstdirect.com)

Paul

Paul, 

      The great thing about the Univers family is that it will provide you with
      everything you need for corporate documentation as well as for display.




But why do you need to limit yourself to just one family? For example, Adobe Systems uses both Myriad and Minion for their corporate style. And the two work together very well. Each font has a specific role in Adobe's CID program. 

      Univers, with its rational relationships of weights, does say something
      right about the 'internet age'




...and boring and sterile. By itself, Univers is just very cold and somewhat mechanical to my eyes. But it can be used in conjunction with the proper serif.

Neil

Neil

Yes, 2 related families often work better than one. I personally think that Otl Aicher's identity for the Munich Olympic Games, based on geometrical proportions, vibrant colours, and Univers (!) takes an awful lot of beating. Boring, sterile, it ain't. The typeface, with its calmness, exactly counterpoints the other elements.

 <http://www.1972municholympics.co.uk/index.php>

But I know we're not living in 1972!

Paul

Paul, 

      Boring, sterile, it ain't.




Don't confuse the very nice graphics (which hold up very well over the years) that are integrated with Univers. I agree that Univers supports the program well.

I'm not completely dismissing the typeface; but, as demonstrated, one has to be aware of the company it keeps. As I said... "By itself, Univers is just very cold and somewhat mechanical to my eyes."

Neil

      very cold and somewhat mechanical to my eyes




And I'll bet that in the past you have used Univers a lot. Part of the problem might be that you are just bored by the font.

Don,

Actually, in the late 1960s and 1970s I did use the font with some frequency. Now, barely at all. Although it is easy enough to change, I also never liked the very open default tracking of the letters. If I have to chose, I prefer Helvetica or Neue Helvetica for its warmer feeling. Or Gill Sans. Or Futura. Or Frutiger. Or Myriad. Or...

Neil

Regarding sans serifs for banks: I was amused to see that the Umpqua Bank uses Lithos for their logo (in a bold or black weight).

T

More important: they should change the name of the bank. From this Easterner's eyes, it sounds as un-banklike as "WaMu". <g>

Neil

Wow! Didn't realize this thread could start some font controversies. :) I still haven't settled on a font but hope to this weekend!!! I ordered a big sample book of all the Adobe fonts which is helpful too. :)

Thanks, Phylllis

Phyllis,

You can also use myfonts.com which has a huge catalog, and even do a trial setting of the name of the bank in a variety of fonts there.

Neil