🚀 go-pugleaf

> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to produce the proof.

Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
expected to provide proof.
Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.

DM

DM wrote:
>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to produce the proof.
> 
> Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
> expected to provide proof.
> Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.

ROTFL

> 
> DM
> 
> 
> 

" Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " <""thecamelhumper\"@kangarooistan.com.au 
is a stupid arselifting troll ."> wrote in message 
news:4b76b196$0$8808$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Toxic batts claim ups pressure on Garrett
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/13/2818748.htm
>
> The Opposition has ramped up calls for Peter Garrett to resign as 
> Environment Minister, after he said he was warned imported insulation 
> batts may contain dangerous levels of toxic chemicals.
>
> Mr Garrett has been under fire in Parliament all week over the safety of 
> the Federal Government's insulation program, with the Opposition saying he 
> repeatedly ignored safety warnings about problems that led to the deaths 
> of four insulation installers.
>
> Now Mr Garrett has confirmed that an industry leader warned him cheap 
> imported insulation reeked of formaldehyde and could generate toxic fumes 
> when heated.
>
> Warrick Batt says says he has had several meetings with Mr Garrett over 
> the last six months and also raised concerns about whether the batts were 
> being installed to Australian standards.
>
> Mr Garrett says he has not seen any proof to back up claims that dangerous 
> levels of chemicals were present in the insulation batts.
>
> "We know that formaldehyde is used as a binding agent, but all batts have 
> to conform to Australian standards and if products that conform to those 
> standards and have the appropriate warnings then they're acceptable to go 
> into ceilings," he said.
>
> Opposition Environment spokesman Greg Hunt says he should be sacked.
>
> "It's about standing up for the Australian people on the basis of safety," 
> he said.
>
> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to produce 
> the proof.
>
> "Mr Garrett's program created the problem, created the need for importing 
> Chinese batts and we know that there are potentially deadly Chinese 
> batts," he said.
>
> "Of course the Government should oversee its program.
>
> "To blame the industry, to blame the installers and not to take 
> responsibility is simple negligence and the Minister now, surely, must 
> go."
>
> Opposition leader Tony Abbott says the matter calls into question Prime 
> Minister Kevin Rudd's competency.
>
> "Someone has to take responsibility for the very, very serious 
> maladministration of this program," he said.
>
> "But every day Mr Rudd protects this incompetent Minister, his own Prime 
> Ministership is called more into question."
>
> Mr Garrett says he has Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's full support.
>

This is a disgrace Sir John.

Garrett must resign immediately !

DM <d-moss@adfa.edu.au> writes:

>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to 
>> produce the proof.

>Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
>expected to provide proof.
>Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.

Garrett's position seems to be "I'm sceptical that this material has
actually been imported or used. But, if it has, I'm prepared to
act to prevent it happening, so give me an actual example so I 
can see how it happened". TYou can hardly blame him; the insulation 
program seems to have some major dodginess in its implementaton, and 
those slinging mud obviously have a vested interest in doing so.

In fact, even if the claim proves to be true, and non-conforming
insulation was imported from China, how can that be Garrett's fault?
Surely it's a Customs matter that material was illegally imported.

And the four guys who were killed were not killed by dodgy insulation;
they were killed because of unsafe work practices. How is that 
Garrett's fault? All he did was part-pay for the insulation to be
installed.

Atom Egoyan
Melbourne Australia

Green Lantern wrote:
> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " <"thecamelhumper@kangarooistan.com.au 
> is a stupid arselifting troll ."> wrote in message 
> news:4b76b196$0$8808$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> Toxic batts claim ups pressure on Garrett
>>
>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/13/2818748.htm
>>
>> The Opposition has ramped up calls for Peter Garrett to resign as 
>> Environment Minister, after he said he was warned imported insulation 
>> batts may contain dangerous levels of toxic chemicals.
>>
>> Mr Garrett has been under fire in Parliament all week over the safety of 
>> the Federal Government's insulation program, with the Opposition saying he 
>> repeatedly ignored safety warnings about problems that led to the deaths 
>> of four insulation installers.
>>
>> Now Mr Garrett has confirmed that an industry leader warned him cheap 
>> imported insulation reeked of formaldehyde and could generate toxic fumes 
>> when heated.
>>
>> Warrick Batt says says he has had several meetings with Mr Garrett over 
>> the last six months and also raised concerns about whether the batts were 
>> being installed to Australian standards.
>>
>> Mr Garrett says he has not seen any proof to back up claims that dangerous 
>> levels of chemicals were present in the insulation batts.
>>
>> "We know that formaldehyde is used as a binding agent, but all batts have 
>> to conform to Australian standards and if products that conform to those 
>> standards and have the appropriate warnings then they're acceptable to go 
>> into ceilings," he said.
>>
>> Opposition Environment spokesman Greg Hunt says he should be sacked.
>>
>> "It's about standing up for the Australian people on the basis of safety," 
>> he said.
>>
>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to produce 
>> the proof.
>>
>> "Mr Garrett's program created the problem, created the need for importing 
>> Chinese batts and we know that there are potentially deadly Chinese 
>> batts," he said.
>>
>> "Of course the Government should oversee its program.
>>
>> "To blame the industry, to blame the installers and not to take 
>> responsibility is simple negligence and the Minister now, surely, must 
>> go."
>>
>> Opposition leader Tony Abbott says the matter calls into question Prime 
>> Minister Kevin Rudd's competency.
>>
>> "Someone has to take responsibility for the very, very serious 
>> maladministration of this program," he said.
>>
>> "But every day Mr Rudd protects this incompetent Minister, his own Prime 
>> Ministership is called more into question."
>>
>> Mr Garrett says he has Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's full support.
> 
> This is a disgrace Sir John.
> 
> Garrett must resign immediately !

The gutless wonder never will. That's typical labour stooge behaviour. KRudd 
must sack him in the usual labour fashion.

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

atom wrote:
> DM <d-moss@adfa.edu.au> writes:
> 
>>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to 
>>> produce the proof.
> 
>> Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
>> expected to provide proof.
>> Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.
> 
> Garrett's position seems to be "I'm sceptical that this material has
> actually been imported or used. But, if it has, I'm prepared to
> act to prevent it happening, so give me an actual example so I 
> can see how it happened". TYou can hardly blame him; the insulation 
> program seems to have some major dodginess in its implementaton, and 
> those slinging mud obviously have a vested interest in doing so.
> 
> In fact, even if the claim proves to be true, and non-conforming
> insulation was imported from China, how can that be Garrett's fault?
> Surely it's a Customs matter that material was illegally imported.
> 
> And the four guys who were killed were not killed by dodgy insulation;
> they were killed because of unsafe work practices. How is that 
> Garrett's fault? All he did was part-pay for the insulation to be
> installed.
> 
> Atom Egoyan
> Melbourne Australia
> 
> 

Insulation has always had that reputation. Making it free was probably 
the govt's only real mistake, you always could get crappy material 
installed by cowboys.

I am unconvinced that insulation does much good, environmentally. People 
will still use heaters and coolers, once they are on any differences in 
energy use because of insulation is marginal at best.

On Feb 14, 12:09 pm, jg <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
> atom wrote:
> > DM <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> writes:
>
> >>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to
> >>> produce the proof.
>
> >> Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
> >> expected to provide proof.
> >> Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.
>
> > Garrett's position seems to be "I'm sceptical that this material has
> > actually been imported or used. But, if it has, I'm prepared to
> > act to prevent it happening, so give me an actual example so I
> > can see how it happened". TYou can hardly blame him; the insulation
> > program seems to have some major dodginess in its implementaton, and
> > those slinging mud obviously have a vested interest in doing so.
>
> > In fact, even if the claim proves to be true, and non-conforming
> > insulation was imported from China, how can that be Garrett's fault?
> > Surely it's a Customs matter that material was illegally imported.
>
> > And the four guys who were killed were not killed by dodgy insulation;
> > they were killed because of unsafe work practices. How is that
> > Garrett's fault? All he did was part-pay for the insulation to be
> > installed.
>
> > Atom Egoyan
> > Melbourne Australia
>
> Insulation has always had that reputation. Making it free was probably
> the govt's only real mistake, you always could get crappy material
> installed by cowboys.
>
> I am unconvinced that insulation does much good, environmentally. People
> will still use heaters and coolers, once they are on any differences in
> energy use because of insulation is marginal at best.

I reduced my energy bill be over 50% by installing insulation.
It paid for itself in under 5 years.

DM

DM wrote:
> On Feb 14, 12:09 pm, jg <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> atom wrote:
>>> DM <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> writes:
>>>>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to
>>>>> produce the proof.
>>>> Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
>>>> expected to provide proof.
>>>> Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.
>>> Garrett's position seems to be "I'm sceptical that this material has
>>> actually been imported or used. But, if it has, I'm prepared to
>>> act to prevent it happening, so give me an actual example so I
>>> can see how it happened". TYou can hardly blame him; the insulation
>>> program seems to have some major dodginess in its implementaton, and
>>> those slinging mud obviously have a vested interest in doing so.
>>> In fact, even if the claim proves to be true, and non-conforming
>>> insulation was imported from China, how can that be Garrett's fault?
>>> Surely it's a Customs matter that material was illegally imported.
>>> And the four guys who were killed were not killed by dodgy insulation;
>>> they were killed because of unsafe work practices. How is that
>>> Garrett's fault? All he did was part-pay for the insulation to be
>>> installed.
>>> Atom Egoyan
>>> Melbourne Australia
>> Insulation has always had that reputation. Making it free was probably
>> the govt's only real mistake, you always could get crappy material
>> installed by cowboys.
>>
>> I am unconvinced that insulation does much good, environmentally. People
>> will still use heaters and coolers, once they are on any differences in
>> energy use because of insulation is marginal at best.
> 
> I reduced my energy bill be over 50% by installing insulation.
> It paid for itself in under 5 years.
> 
> DM

Here are a few pie charts -

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=home+energy+consumption&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&start=0

They typically put heating + cooling between 35 and 50% of energy use.
To achieve 50% reduction you would have to either throw away all heating 
and cooling or use much more heating and/or cooling than average.

Central heating is a big number in cold climates, but that's not most of 
Australia.

On Feb 15, 6:34 am, jg <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
> DM wrote:
> > On Feb 14, 12:09 pm, jg <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> atom wrote:
> >>> DM <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> writes:
> >>>>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to
> >>>>> produce the proof.
> >>>> Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
> >>>> expected to provide proof.
> >>>> Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.
> >>> Garrett's position seems to be "I'm sceptical that this material has
> >>> actually been imported or used. But, if it has, I'm prepared to
> >>> act to prevent it happening, so give me an actual example so I
> >>> can see how it happened". TYou can hardly blame him; the insulation
> >>> program seems to have some major dodginess in its implementaton, and
> >>> those slinging mud obviously have a vested interest in doing so.
> >>> In fact, even if the claim proves to be true, and non-conforming
> >>> insulation was imported from China, how can that be Garrett's fault?
> >>> Surely it's a Customs matter that material was illegally imported.
> >>> And the four guys who were killed were not killed by dodgy insulation;
> >>> they were killed because of unsafe work practices. How is that
> >>> Garrett's fault? All he did was part-pay for the insulation to be
> >>> installed.
> >>> Atom Egoyan
> >>> Melbourne Australia
> >> Insulation has always had that reputation. Making it free was probably
> >> the govt's only real mistake, you always could get crappy material
> >> installed by cowboys.
>
> >> I am unconvinced that insulation does much good, environmentally. People
> >> will still use heaters and coolers, once they are on any differences in
> >> energy use because of insulation is marginal at best.
>
> > I reduced my energy bill be over 50% by installing insulation.
> > It paid for itself in under 5 years.
>
> > DM
>
> Here are a few pie charts -
>
> http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=home+energy+cons...
>
> They typically put heating + cooling between 35 and 50% of energy use.
> To achieve 50% reduction you would have to either throw away all heating
> and cooling or use much more heating and/or cooling than average.
>
> Central heating is a big number in cold climates, but that's not most of
> Australia.

It gets down to -10C regularly in winter where I live, and is above
38C regularly in the summer.

DM

DM wrote:
> On Feb 15, 6:34 am, jg <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> DM wrote:
>>> On Feb 14, 12:09 pm, jg <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> atom wrote:
>>>>> DM <d-m...@adfa.edu.au> writes:
>>>>>>> Mr Hunt says it should not be left to the insulation industry to
>>>>>>> produce the proof.
>>>>>> Why not? Even here in aus.politics, if you make an accusation, you are
>>>>>> expected to provide proof.
>>>>>> Making stuff up only gets you laughed at.
>>>>> Garrett's position seems to be "I'm sceptical that this material has
>>>>> actually been imported or used. But, if it has, I'm prepared to
>>>>> act to prevent it happening, so give me an actual example so I
>>>>> can see how it happened". TYou can hardly blame him; the insulation
>>>>> program seems to have some major dodginess in its implementaton, and
>>>>> those slinging mud obviously have a vested interest in doing so.
>>>>> In fact, even if the claim proves to be true, and non-conforming
>>>>> insulation was imported from China, how can that be Garrett's fault?
>>>>> Surely it's a Customs matter that material was illegally imported.
>>>>> And the four guys who were killed were not killed by dodgy insulation;
>>>>> they were killed because of unsafe work practices. How is that
>>>>> Garrett's fault? All he did was part-pay for the insulation to be
>>>>> installed.
>>>>> Atom Egoyan
>>>>> Melbourne Australia
>>>> Insulation has always had that reputation. Making it free was probably
>>>> the govt's only real mistake, you always could get crappy material
>>>> installed by cowboys.
>>>> I am unconvinced that insulation does much good, environmentally. People
>>>> will still use heaters and coolers, once they are on any differences in
>>>> energy use because of insulation is marginal at best.
>>> I reduced my energy bill be over 50% by installing insulation.
>>> It paid for itself in under 5 years.
>>> DM
>> Here are a few pie charts -
>>
>> http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=home+energy+cons...
>>
>> They typically put heating + cooling between 35 and 50% of energy use.
>> To achieve 50% reduction you would have to either throw away all heating
>> and cooling or use much more heating and/or cooling than average.
>>
>> Central heating is a big number in cold climates, but that's not most of
>> Australia.
> 
> It gets down to -10C regularly in winter where I live, and is above
> 38C regularly in the summer.
> 
> DM
> 
> 
> 
> 
It goes from 0 to 45 here, heating and cooling probably add up to 15-20% 
of our energy (without insulation). Solar water would save a heap more 
than that.

You must have used a truckload of energy for that bottom 10 degrees 
without insulation and it must have a very effective thermostat unless 
you are saying you rarely need it on now.