🚀 go-pugleaf

David Scruggs wrote:
> 
> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
> the opportunity.
> 
Nope, and I haven't found any cat skeletons in trees yet either.

A monitor works real good even if it's not a popular option amongst
civilians. At least we haven't had a "cat in tree" call since then 8^).


--
Jim Warman
mechanic@telusplanet.net
Slave Lake, Alberta,
Canada

"David Scruggs" <bcfd36@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3C4A18BC.6303C99F@aol.com...
> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
> the opportunity.
>
> Dave Scruggs
> Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
> Boulder Creek, Calif.
>

"David Scruggs" <bcfd36@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3C4A18BC.6303C99F@aol.com...
> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
> the opportunity.
>
> Dave Scruggs
> Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
> Boulder Creek, Calif.


Did once..   cat on a weak limb...  hooked the limb with a pike pole and
pulled it close to the ground.  Cat jumped off, hit the ground running..
Leapt over the fence and into the backyard....

Never saw the three German Shepard's that lived there..   NOT a pretty
site..  we left it for the animal control officer to clean up..

Did have to set up an aerial to fetch a Golden Macaw that had escaped from
his owner.. Damn think almost took my finger off on the way down..  Bird
ALMOST made it to the ground before I did..  the hard way..   (no stitches,
but did need a tetanus booster)

Why would you bother. Have you ever seen a dead cat in a tree????

David Scruggs wrote:
> 
> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
> the opportunity.
> 
> Dave Scruggs
> Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
> Boulder Creek, Calif.

-- 
_________________________________________________________________

Alan Miller, Owner - Web Venues Internet Services
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In alt.firefighters Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote:


> David Scruggs wrote:
>> 
>> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
>> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
>> the opportunity.
>> 
> Nope, and I haven't found any cat skeletons in trees yet either.

I have, decades ago at summer camp.  Definately was a highlight ;)
(Cat had been caught by the head in a "Y")

Dave Hinz

nope, though i was called out one day to assist the animal control officer
in our town to rescue 4 racoon kits from a tree after the mother was
roadkill, took longer to decon my bunkers for fleas the the rescue did
JP

fmr ff/emt (oncall)
sandwich, ma

David Scruggs <bcfd36@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3C4A18BC.6303C99F@aol.com...
> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
> the opportunity.
>
> Dave Scruggs
> Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
> Boulder Creek, Calif.
>

On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 02:09:50 GMT,  David Scruggs <bcfd36@aol.com>  wrote:
>Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
>local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
>the opportunity.

Been there, done that. The ladder company I serve on conducted a "cat in tree"
rescue once about 15 years ago. A woman who lived across the street from our
station came over and asked if we could get her cat down from a 40' Oak tree.
So, we pulled the ladder truck out across the street and extended the aerial
up into the branches. It wasn't an official or logged call either.
The guy that agreed to make the rescue in the first place (he was acting Lt. at
the time), went up the stick and disappeared about 30' up into the foliage. All
any of us could see from the ground was a lot of swaying and thrashing tree
branches and a flashlight (did I forget to mention it was night time?). 
Next thing we see is this object come sailing down through the branches, hit the
ground then take off running. Of course it was the cat. Our hero up in the trees
was tired of getting his ass kicked up there and when finally he latched on to
the cat (or the cat latched on to him) he just threw it down to the ground.
It would have been funny, in tragic sort of way, if the cat promptly ran into
the street and got hit by a car.

>Dave Scruggs
>Captain, Boulder Creek Fire
>Boulder Creek, Calif.

On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:59:01 -0500,  Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com>  wrote:
>
>
>David Scruggs wrote:
>> 
>> Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
>> local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
>> the opportunity.
>> 
>Nope, and I haven't found any cat skeletons in trees yet either.

We were out conducting building inspections one time and while we sitting in the
apparatus some middle-aged woman came up to the truck and asked the Lt. if we
could come over to her property and rescue her cat from a tree.
The Lt. gave her a look and said something like "Don't worry lady, he'll come
down on his own" "did you ever see any cat skeletons up in a tree"?
She gave him a dirty look and took off in a huff. I'm not certain if it was
because of the Lts answer, or the fact that the rest of us were pissing our
selves laughing at his response.

Our SOP says leave 'em there they'll come down eventually.  Recovered a few
civilians stuck in tree's trying to rescue cats though.  Like another poster
said, ever seen a cat skeleton in a tree?

Webmaster
www.ghfd.org

On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 02:09:50 GMT, David Scruggs <bcfd36@aol.com>
wrote:

>Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
>local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
>the opportunity.


Not personally, but last summer I passed what appeared to be a fairly
major incident on a local street (urban, two-storey terraces with
attics) - one pumper, one hydraulic platform, police, residents out of
their houses.  I almost stopped to offer assistance as there was no
ambulance on scene yet, until I realised that they were all after a
kitten on a roof.

Michael
--
M Glickman
Gateshead Hatzola Community First Aid Service  Gateshead  UK
**Remove the 'x' from my domain name to reply**

On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 03:08:23 GMT, "Brad Bilger" <bradbilger@attbi.com>
wrote:

>Did have to set up an aerial to fetch a Golden Macaw that had escaped from
>his owner.. Damn think almost took my finger off on the way down..  Bird
>ALMOST made it to the ground before I did..  the hard way..   (no stitches,
>but did need a tetanus booster)

You had to rescue a bird that had flown up a tree and couldn't get
down again?!

Michael
--
M Glickman
Gateshead Hatzola Community First Aid Service  Gateshead  UK
**Remove the 'x' from my domain name to reply**

M Glickman of Gateshead, UK, (mglick@xilcs.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 03:08:23 GMT, "Brad Bilger" <bradbilger@attbi.com>
: wrote:

: >Did have to set up an aerial to fetch a Golden Macaw that had escaped from
: >his owner.. Damn think almost took my finger off on the way down..  Bird
: >ALMOST made it to the ground before I did..  the hard way..   (no stitches,
: >but did need a tetanus booster)

: You had to rescue a bird that had flown up a tree and couldn't get
: down again?!

Here in America we know how to do everyone's business better than they do --
even the birds.  This is part of what endears us so to others.

--
Sherwood Harrington
Boulder Creek, California

"M Glickman" <mglick@xilcs.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c4b4f80.267655624@news.demon.co.uk...
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 03:08:23 GMT, "Brad Bilger" <bradbilger@attbi.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Did have to set up an aerial to fetch a Golden Macaw that had escaped
from
> >his owner.. Damn think almost took my finger off on the way down..  Bird
> >ALMOST made it to the ground before I did..  the hard way..   (no
stitches,
> >but did need a tetanus booster)
>
> You had to rescue a bird that had flown up a tree and couldn't get
> down again?!
>
> Michael
> --

yeah.. that was my question to the owner.. they had just gotten home from
taking the bird to the Vet to have his wings clipped so he couldn't fly
away....  it obviously didn't work.. .   And before anyone asks why I didn't
wear gloves.. I started to.. the owner told me that if he saw gloves, he
would go crazy..

Brad Bilger (bradbilger@attbi.com) wrote:
: ... the owner told me that if he saw gloves, he
: would go crazy..

Lemme guess: the owner was Mike Tyson?  (Or did you mean the *bird* would go
crazy?)

--
Sherwood Harrington
If it throws a fit, you must acquit.  Oops -- different gloves.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 02:09:50 GMT, David Scruggs <bcfd36@aol.com>
wrote:

>Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
>local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
>the opportunity.

Yeah, I tried and failed.  However, I was about 13 years old at the
time and suspect the cat was enjoying the spectacle of me trying to
climb up the tree.  The cat climbed down a few minutes after I
collapsed on the lawn.

In Ben Lomond, we have an arrangement with the local squirrels to
train the cats in the art of tree climbing.  The squirrels tempt the
cats to chase them up the tree.  Of course, the squirrels are much
faster and more agile than the cat.  They apparently find it amusing
to watch the cat clumsily back down the tree after the requite hours
of whining.  

For a nominal charge, I can supply some of the local training
squirrels to any fire department that is plagued with excessive
cat-in-tree calls.  Within one or two generations of cat, they should
all be properly trained, and the cat-in-tree calls dramatically
reduced.



-- 
Jeff Liebermann  150 Felker St #D  Santa Cruz CA 95060
(831)421-6491 pgr (831)426-1240 fax (831)336-2558 home
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com   WB6SSY
jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us   jeffl@cruzio.com

"Sherwood Harrington" <sherwood@rahul.net> wrote in message
news:a2fv78$idk$1@samba.rahul.net...
> Brad Bilger (bradbilger@attbi.com) wrote:
> : ... the owner told me that if he saw gloves, he
> : would go crazy..
>
> Lemme guess: the owner was Mike Tyson?  (Or did you mean the *bird* would
go
> crazy?)
>
> --
> Sherwood Harrington
> If it throws a fit, you must acquit.  Oops -- different gloves.

the Bird.. :-)  Turns out, he didn't need the gloves to go crazy.. I think
that he was afraid of heights..

 > Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
 > local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
 > the opportunity.
 >
 > Dave Scruggs Captain, Boulder Creek Fire Boulder Creek, Calif.
 >

In one city I worked for as a seasonal relief dispatcher they had a 
rigid policy against the FD doing any kind of animal rescue work.  There 
was a dispute ongoing between the city and the county government about 
who was responsible for such effort within the city limits.  The first 
call came in at 2000 hours complaining about a cat stuck up a tree.  The 
instructions from the city managers office was to refer all such calls 
to the county.  The elderly female caller did not want a referral 
because she new that the county would not send an animal control officer 
until morning.  She demanded that we "get down here right now."  The cat 
was stuck outside her bedroom window and was keeping her awake with it's 
yowling.  I stuck to the script each time she called back for the next 
eight hours but at 0400 my patience failed and I asked if she had ever 
seen the skeleton of a dead cat in a tree.  She became furious and said 
that it did not prove anything.  I replied that what it proved was that 
when the cat got tired enough, hungry enough, or horny enough it would 
come down.  She said I was a rude young man and I replied that I had 
never denied that.  The next call was one half hour later just like the 
previous calls.  As soon as she started in about the cat I asked "is 
that cat on fire?"  She assured me that she would see that my rudeness 
cost me my job.  I replied that after more than sixteen of her calls I 
would be happy to be fired.  0730 comes and I am once again on the phone 
with this women.  The deputy chief comes in and sensing my irritation he 
told me to put her through to his desk.  He was on the phone to her for 
fifteen minutes and the fire chief came in.  The deputy chief said your 
right mam we should take care of it and I will be right there.  He 
walked into the chief's office and asked for two hours of personal 
leave.  He then came up to the desk and pealed off five twenty dollar 
bills.  In the aftermath of proposition thirteen the city manager had 
ordered rental schedules prepared for all city equipment.  The deputy 
chief looked me right in the eye and said "one triple.  One quarter 
hour."  I made out the rental form and watched the deputy walk into the 
apparatus bay.  I told the fire chief that the deputy may have lost it 
and we had better stop him.  We both hopped into the chiefs buggy and 
went off after him.  The engines in this town had both PTO and mid ship 
pumps.  The deputy chief pulled up in front of the home, engaged the 
PTO, and aimed a deck gun with an ancient mystery nozzle on it into the 
tree.  We had stopped a full block away when the fire chief realized 
that he was too late to stop what was going to happen.  In order to 
escape the water the cat leapt to the roof top and when last seen was 
three houses away and still running.  The deputy chief climbed into the 
cab and drove back to the station.  The fire chief said "we were never 
here." and also drove back.  Since I was a seasonal employee I happily 
took the call from the city manager.  If he had fired me I would have 
received unemployment for the entire school semester.  He demanded to 
know who had sprayed the water into the tree.  I told him that the unit 
in question was out on rental.  When he asked to who I reminded him that 
the city solicitor had said that information about citizens could not be 
given out to anyone.  He hung up in my ear.  I do not know if he ever 
learned who had done the dirty deed.
--
Tom
--
Tom

In article <3C4BC1C9.2050505@mindspring.com>, Thomas D Horne
<hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
>  The 
> instructions from the city managers office was to refer all such calls 
> to the county.  The elderly female caller did not want a referral 
> because she new that the county would not send an animal control officer 
> until morning.  She demanded that we "get down here right now."  The cat 
> was stuck outside her bedroom window and was keeping her awake with it's 
> yowling. 

It's what pellet guns were made for.


--Tim May

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:20:18 GMT, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote:

>In article <3C4BC1C9.2050505@mindspring.com>, Thomas D Horne
><hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>  The 
>> instructions from the city managers office was to refer all such calls 
>> to the county.  The elderly female caller did not want a referral 
>> because she new that the county would not send an animal control officer 
>> until morning.  She demanded that we "get down here right now."  The cat 
>> was stuck outside her bedroom window and was keeping her awake with it's 
>> yowling. 
>
>It's what pellet guns were made for.
>
>
>--Tim May

T.F.F.

finding tcmay cross-posting in ems group.

last month, gunner showed up (by accident) in satellite hack group.

not clear if I've ever actually posted to misc.ems group, but this
bogus nick was inspired here years ago.

can anybody help with adding extra alternators to my 1985 
Dodge caravan?  all the light-bars on the roof are making my
belts squeal.  drives my dog (c-spine sniffer) crazy

down, not across,
zero

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:20:18 GMT, in ba.mountain-folk,Tim May
<tcmay@got.net> wrote:

>In article <3C4BC1C9.2050505@mindspring.com>, Thomas D Horne
><hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>  The 
>> instructions from the city managers office was to refer all such calls 
>> to the county.  The elderly female caller did not want a referral 
>> because she new that the county would not send an animal control officer 
>> until morning.  She demanded that we "get down here right now."  The cat 
>> was stuck outside her bedroom window and was keeping her awake with it's 
>> yowling. 
>
>It's what pellet guns were made for.

I'm ashamed to say that, regarding this topic, I was thinking
along the same lines.

Except that I was thinking more of the use of shotgun pellets
fired into a tree to persuade the cat to either shuddap, get down
or die.

I figured that the latter choice would be nothing more than a
good beginning.

Sorry.  I've just been annoyed by our cat, for the past coupla
months.

Could I interest anybody in a fine pair of warm homemade gloves?

"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on who we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love"  Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby  glena@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>

Thomas D Horne wrote:

> 
> In one city I worked for as a seasonal relief dispatcher they had a
> rigid policy against the FD doing any kind of animal rescue work.��There
> was a dispute ongoing between the city and the county government about
> who was responsible for such effort within the city limits.��

Thanks for a good hard laugh first thing on Monday morning.

You may have saved my week.

-Donald
-- 
Axiom #2: 
� � � � "Ability to type on a computer terminal is no guarantee of sanity, 
� � � � intelligence, or common sense." 

In article <3c4bd7c4.404974914@msunews.cl.msu.edu>, zeromedic
<zeromedic@go.com> wrote:

> >It's what pellet guns were made for.
> >
> >
> >--Tim May
> 
> T.F.F.
> 
> finding tcmay cross-posting in ems group.
> 


Nope, not "cross-posting" to an EMS group, anymore than _you_ are
cross-posting to ba.mountain-folk. 

The originator of the thread, Dave Scruggs, picked three newsgroups to
post to. Anyone who replies and keeps his list are not cross-posting,
merely acceding to his wishes.

RTFM.

And stop cross-posting to ba.mountain-folk!

--Tim May

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:33:46 GMT, in ba.mountain-folk,
dirtdevil@rcip.com (Glen Appleby) created:

>Sorry.  I've just been annoyed by our cat, for the past coupla
>months.

It's your own damn fault.  I offered to take that cat more than a
year ago, and YOU had decided to keep him.

jc

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:31:51 GMT, in
ba.mountain-folk,magical@rahul.net wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:33:46 GMT, in ba.mountain-folk,
>dirtdevil@rcip.com (Glen Appleby) created:
>
>>Sorry.  I've just been annoyed by our cat, for the past coupla
>>months.
>
>It's your own damn fault.  I offered to take that cat more than a
>year ago, and YOU had decided to keep him.

Actually, check back.

It was KATHY who decided to keep him.

I had pretty much always (from about him being a year old,
onward) thought of him as gloves.

But because she wouldn't listen to me (paybacks are hell, huh?),
even she, now, is wanting to see him disappear.  Not *quite*
enough to actually make it happen, yet; but as long as he
continues doing the things that he is doing, I just have to sit
back and wait.

"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on who we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love"  Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby  glena@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>

Alan Miller <alan@webvenues.net> wrote in message news:<3C4A52C0.DE4789BA@webvenues.net>...
> Why would you bother. Have you ever seen a dead cat in a tree????

A seemingly clever, if facile, response.

If a cat in a tree is dying of starvation, exposure or injuries, it
will generally fall out of the tree when it becomes unconscious,
whereupon it will either die from the fall, remain unconscious and
then die, get run over by a car or attacked by other animals, or
recover and leave.

This is why there are rarely cat skeletons in trees.  The cat's demise
is hardly ever a result of quietly starving to death up there.

That said, cats are rarely truly stuck in trees.  They *think* they're
stuck, yowl piteously, then figure out a way down when they get hungry
enough.

Jeannie

Actually another poster in this thread said he did indeed see a cat skeleton
in a tree.

"hpjeannie" <hpjeannie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31ec7e6d.0201211604.690c8b76@posting.google.com...
> Alan Miller <alan@webvenues.net> wrote in message
news:<3C4A52C0.DE4789BA@webvenues.net>...
> > Why would you bother. Have you ever seen a dead cat in a tree????
>
> A seemingly clever, if facile, response.
>
> If a cat in a tree is dying of starvation, exposure or injuries, it
> will generally fall out of the tree when it becomes unconscious,
> whereupon it will either die from the fall, remain unconscious and
> then die, get run over by a car or attacked by other animals, or
> recover and leave.
>
> This is why there are rarely cat skeletons in trees.  The cat's demise
> is hardly ever a result of quietly starving to death up there.
>
> That said, cats are rarely truly stuck in trees.  They *think* they're
> stuck, yowl piteously, then figure out a way down when they get hungry
> enough.
>
> Jeannie
>

A difference that makes no difference is not a difference.  Perhaps you 
like my other standard question better.  Lady are you aware you have 
reached the fire department?  Is that cat on fire?
	The reason that most fire fighters respond so negatively to animal rescue 
calls is that they are a clear indication of the low level of value 
citizens place on the welfare of the fire fighters who serve there 
legitimate emergency needs.  Fire fighters have, in fact, been killed 
while attempting animal rescues.  We are not vaccinated against rabies 
or plague or any of the other diseases for which animal control officers 
are already protected.  That cats death however unfortunate is not worth 
the real cost to the community of a fire fighter being scratched or 
bitten.  A cat, no matter how many ribbons or other awards it may have 
received, is certainly worth less than the lining in a fire fighters 
coffin.  Elevated physical rescue work contains real risk to the people 
that conduct it.  The stranded cat is no danger to the public unless 
they are stupid enough to climb up after it.  The fire and rescue 
service and the animal control service exist for one reason only and 
that is to protect human beings from injury or disease.  People who join 
the animal rescue league and other animal welfare groups have chosen to 
take certain risk in caring for animals.  The idea that fire fighters 
should be expected to undertake the hazards attendant to elevated rescue 
work for a cat is obscene.  Is that response cogent enough for you.
--
Tom

 > A seemingly clever, if facile, response.
 >
 > If a cat in a tree is dying of starvation, exposure or injuries, it
 > will generally fall out of the tree when it becomes unconscious,
 > whereupon it will either die from the fall, remain unconscious and
 > then die, get run over by a car or attacked by other animals, or
 > recover and leave.
 >
 > This is why there are rarely cat skeletons in trees.  The cat's
 > demise is hardly ever a result of quietly starving to death up
 > there.
 >
 > That said, cats are rarely truly stuck in trees.  They *think*
 > they're stuck, yowl piteously, then figure out a way down when they
 > get hungry enough.
 >
 > Jeannie
 >

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:29:28 -0500, Thomas D Horne
<hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:

>...Perhaps you 
>like my other standard question better.  Lady are you aware you have 
>reached the fire department?  Is that cat on fire?

Tom, I think you should have transferred her to the "Shade Tree
Commission."

Steve

Thomas D Horne wrote:
> 
> A difference that makes no difference is not a difference.  Perhaps you
> like my other standard question better.  Lady are you aware you have
> reached the fire department?  Is that cat on fire?
>         The reason that most fire fighters respond so negatively to animal rescue

...

>  >

A minor issue is the turf war between the fire dept. and animal control
(officially a discussion regarding allocation of resources).

A more important matter is that the fire unit that is getting the kitty
out of the tree is not available to immediatly respond to a fire.  In a
rural district, the cat-in-tree call could place that unit well away
from most of their service area.

Jim

In alt.firefighters djgonzales <dj@gonzales.invalid.com> wrote:
> Actually another poster in this thread said he did indeed see a cat skeleton
> in a tree.

You betcha.  It was a highlight of our summer-camp experience (10 year old
boys enjoy that sort of thing).  We showed everyone; I could probably still
find the tree, but I know he's not in there (checked the following year).

Dave Hinz

Thomas D Horne <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<3C4CC078.2030501@mindspring.com>...
> A difference that makes no difference is not a difference.  Perhaps you 
> like my other standard question better.  Lady are you aware you have 
> reached the fire department?  Is that cat on fire?

Yes, that one is much better!  (LOL) And I agree with all your other
reasons for not getting the FD to unstick a cat; I just think the
"have you ever seen a cat skeleton in a tree" response is sophomoric.

How about "sure; you're after the structure fire but before the
severed arm" or "ok, but you'll have to respond to the restaurant
smoke alarm while our truck is busy with your cat."  Yeah, I know;
sure way to get an RP complaint, but at least they're true.

Jeannie
wife of a 911 dispatcher

In article <3C4CC078.2030501@mindspring.com>,
Thomas D Horne  <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
> The reason that most fire fighters respond so negatively to animal rescue 
> calls is that they are a clear indication of the low level of value 
> citizens place on the welfare of the fire fighters who serve there 
> legitimate emergency needs.

Very sorry to see that somebody flipped your "asshole" switch and you
can't manage to turn it back off.

> Fire fighters have, in fact, been killed 
> while attempting animal rescues.  We are not vaccinated against rabies 
> or plague or any of the other diseases for which animal control officers 
> are already protected.  That cats death however unfortunate is not worth 
> the real cost to the community of a fire fighter being scratched or 
> bitten.  A cat, no matter how many ribbons or other awards it may have 
> received, is certainly worth less than the lining in a fire fighters 
> coffin.

Whatever. I'm sure everyone would agree with you that a firefighter's
life is usually worth more than a cat's (there are some great cats and
some butthead firefighters, but that isn't the common case). The fact
remains, though, that there are firefighters out there who (whether
they consider it to be in the line of duty or not) are willing to
attempt this sort of thing because they see the value in it and they
choose to try to help. No one holds against you the fact that you
choose not to help. No one is trying to convince you that helping
stuck cats is in your job description. I'm not sure why you're talking
like a self-righteous jerk.

> ... The fire and rescue 
> service and the animal control service exist for one reason only and 
> that is to protect human beings from injury or disease.

That's actually false. I'm sort of appalled that you say you're a
firefighter and you would make such a claim.

> People who join 
> the animal rescue league and other animal welfare groups have chosen to 
> take certain risk in caring for animals.  The idea that fire fighters 
> should be expected to undertake the hazards attendant to elevated rescue 
> work for a cat is obscene.  Is that response cogent enough for you.

Again, you're sounding a lot like an asshole and I'm not sure why. No
one said they expect you to rescue cats from trees if you don't want
to. Much better to say, "I don't choose to do it" than to make a
stupid remark about cat skeletons in trees and then go off on an
unsolicited diatribe like you did when someone called you on your
flippant behavior.

Geez, dude. Calm down.

	-- Robert

On 22 Jan 2002 23:00:03 GMT, in
ba.mountain-folk,robert@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert Kennedy)
wrote:

>Whatever. I'm sure everyone would agree with you that a firefighter's
>life is usually worth more than a cat's (there are some great cats and
>some butthead firefighters, but that isn't the common case). 

I'm kinda glad that you posted this to the whole string of groups
to which Scrubbs posted this, initially.

I *thought* about adding some cat-lover groups to the string as
well, but thought better of it.

Now, I freely admit to (half-jokingly) having posted about my
desire to strangle our cat.  (We're working toward a resolution
to that ... which still may ultimately involve the death or
dismemberment of the cat .... the idea of a cat with no legs has
a certain appeal to me.  He won't be jumping up on the bed to
deposit his daily allowance of hairs, he won't have the need to
sharpen his claws on the couch and he will not be running away
when we want to pet him or pick him up ... We are still trying to
work through this delemma)

Since 9/11, I have taken a modified view of firefighters.  Keep
in mind that, prior to that, our only experiences with them have
been the macho ducks in Boulder Creek.

That brings me to my peeve about them.

I want to preface this by saying a coulpa things:

I knew Hoot Cress and he played a big part in setting up the
volunteer fire department in Boulder Creek.  He was an
exceptional person.  

There probibly are still a lot of good folks involved in the
department and I don't mean to diminish them.

However ... (here comes the other shoe)

Since we lived there, things have been going rapidly downhill.

In the early/mid 80s, one of the crew seemed to think it was
great fun to drive a fire vehicle down Hwy 9 at way too high a
speed and happened to take out some person crossing the road,
near a curve, where the driver could not see at the speed that
they were traveling.

At around that time, I saw the crew of the day trying to help
some babe get into her locked Volvo wagon.  They tried all of the
standard tricks to accomplish it, but had no success.

This lady had two adolescent kids along with her.  They were
rushing about, trying to see what was going on and trying to
help.

Apparently, between the frustration of not being able to get the
car unlocked and not looking as macho as they would like, they
told the kids to get outta there.  ("Go away, kid.  You bother
me.")

So, instead of hanging around the doors to watch and help, the 2
kids went around to the back of the wagon and simply opened the
back door.

Not a single one of the firemen gave the kids their do.  The kids
got no thanks for what they did.

But those are fairly minor incidents.  They simply showed that
some of the firefighters had issues that really needed to be
dealt with before being allowed to wear the funny hat and pants.
Heck, one can find that type in almost any organization.

What *really* torques me, though, is that some of the
firefighters seem to have no concept of confidentiality or
propriaty.

On at least two occasions, I am aware of them being involved in a
situation (where they served no good purpose) and afterwards, we
*know* that they told uninvolved parties of what happened.

On one of those occasions, it was our own dear David Scrubbs who
took part in spilling the beans, right here.

Now, I don't know what anybody else thinks that they can expect
as far as confidentiality, but I know that there is need for
medical folks to retain confidentiality.

If anybody expects it from the BCFD, they may find themselves in
for a pretty big surprise.

This speaks very poorly for the BCFD in general, to allow this
type of thing to go on.

So, as far as I am concerned, the landings in the WTC had some
benefit (overlooking the very unfortunate loss of lives by all
there).  It showd me that *all* firefighters and departments are
not macho assholes who seem to be involved in the firefighting in
part to play with expensive toys, to appear as if they are doing
some good, to look macho and to have the opportunity to gossip
with friends and family (and anybody else that suits them, at the
time) about what they think that they have seen in carrying out
their duties.

Do I expect to get grief for posting this?  You betcha!

Do I care about some folks getting pissed at me for posting this?
Not even a little bit!

This is intended as nothing more than a warning to those in BC
who have certain expectations about their local fire department.

"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on who we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love"  Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby  glena@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>

Glen Appleby wrote:

> On 22 Jan 2002 23:00:03 GMT, in
> ba.mountain-folk,robert@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert Kennedy)
> wrote:
>
> I'm kinda glad that you posted this to the whole string of groups
> to which Scrubbs posted this, initially.
>

BS Deleted

>
> In the early/mid 80s, one of the crew seemed to think it was
> great fun to drive a fire vehicle down Hwy 9 at way too high a
> speed and happened to take out some person crossing the road,
> near a curve, where the driver could not see at the speed that
> they were traveling.

The guy was 17 years old, in his personal vehicle. The lady in question
was wearing a black sweater with black pants. Not an excuse, but it does
change the situation. A tragedy for all.

>
>
> At around that time, I saw the crew of the day trying to help
> some babe get into her locked Volvo wagon.  They tried all of the
> standard tricks to accomplish it, but had no success.
>
> This lady had two adolescent kids along with her.  They were
> rushing about, trying to see what was going on and trying to
> help.
>
> Apparently, between the frustration of not being able to get the
> car unlocked and not looking as macho as they would like, they
> told the kids to get outta there.  ("Go away, kid.  You bother
> me.")
>
> So, instead of hanging around the doors to watch and help, the 2
> kids went around to the back of the wagon and simply opened the
> back door.
>
> Not a single one of the firemen gave the kids their do.  The kids
> got no thanks for what they did.
>

My guess is you are twisting things again. Why didn't you stop to help.
Oh, wait. You just piss and moan and take up space. Never mind.

>
> But those are fairly minor incidents.  They simply showed that
> some of the firefighters had issues that really needed to be
> dealt with before being allowed to wear the funny hat and pants.
> Heck, one can find that type in almost any organization.
>
> What *really* torques me, though, is that some of the
> firefighters seem to have no concept of confidentiality or
> propriaty.
>
> On at least two occasions, I am aware of them being involved in a
> situation (where they served no good purpose) and afterwards, we
> *know* that they told uninvolved parties of what happened.
>
> On one of those occasions, it was our own dear David Scrubbs who
> took part in spilling the beans, right here.
>

Not of our calls. You are still pissed because Emily got ahold of your
posts/lies/distortions about Hoot. Once again, she didn't get them from
me. Since I do know who it was, I'll ask for permission to reveal the
name.

>
> Now, I don't know what anybody else thinks that they can expect
> as far as confidentiality, but I know that there is need for
> medical folks to retain confidentiality.

We did what? I don't think so.

>
>
> If anybody expects it from the BCFD, they may find themselves in
> for a pretty big surprise.
>
> This speaks very poorly for the BCFD in general, to allow this
> type of thing to go on.

The beans were never spilled about the rumor that you were kicked out of
the house for a week awhile back. That was sat on for a long time. It's a
small town. Stuff will catch up with you.

>

Sorry for the rant to the other news groups. You have now met one of our
other resident cranks.

D. Scruggs

Read your post outloud to the household. Pretty much had to resus em both,
they laughed so hard.

We have four cats here. Pretty much agreed with the BC. LOL

"Thomas D Horne" <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C4BC1C9.2050505@mindspring.com...
> > Has anyone out there ever taken a cat out of a tree? It came up in a
>  > local newsgroup I read. We don't, and I don't know if we have ever had
>  > the opportunity.
>  >
>  > Dave Scruggs Captain, Boulder Creek Fire Boulder Creek, Calif.
>  >
>
> In one city I worked for as a seasonal relief dispatcher they had a
> rigid policy against the FD doing any kind of animal rescue work.  There
> was a dispute ongoing between the city and the county government about
> who was responsible for such effort within the city limits.  The first
> call came in at 2000 hours complaining about a cat stuck up a tree.  The
> instructions from the city managers office was to refer all such calls
> to the county.  The elderly female caller did not want a referral
> because she new that the county would not send an animal control officer
> until morning.  She demanded that we "get down here right now."  The cat
> was stuck outside her bedroom window and was keeping her awake with it's
> yowling.  I stuck to the script each time she called back for the next
> eight hours but at 0400 my patience failed and I asked if she had ever
> seen the skeleton of a dead cat in a tree.  She became furious and said
> that it did not prove anything.  I replied that what it proved was that
> when the cat got tired enough, hungry enough, or horny enough it would
> come down.  She said I was a rude young man and I replied that I had
> never denied that.  The next call was one half hour later just like the
> previous calls.  As soon as she started in about the cat I asked "is
> that cat on fire?"  She assured me that she would see that my rudeness
> cost me my job.  I replied that after more than sixteen of her calls I
> would be happy to be fired.  0730 comes and I am once again on the phone
> with this women.  The deputy chief comes in and sensing my irritation he
> told me to put her through to his desk.  He was on the phone to her for
> fifteen minutes and the fire chief came in.  The deputy chief said your
> right mam we should take care of it and I will be right there.  He
> walked into the chief's office and asked for two hours of personal
> leave.  He then came up to the desk and pealed off five twenty dollar
> bills.  In the aftermath of proposition thirteen the city manager had
> ordered rental schedules prepared for all city equipment.  The deputy
> chief looked me right in the eye and said "one triple.  One quarter
> hour."  I made out the rental form and watched the deputy walk into the
> apparatus bay.  I told the fire chief that the deputy may have lost it
> and we had better stop him.  We both hopped into the chiefs buggy and
> went off after him.  The engines in this town had both PTO and mid ship
> pumps.  The deputy chief pulled up in front of the home, engaged the
> PTO, and aimed a deck gun with an ancient mystery nozzle on it into the
> tree.  We had stopped a full block away when the fire chief realized
> that he was too late to stop what was going to happen.  In order to
> escape the water the cat leapt to the roof top and when last seen was
> three houses away and still running.  The deputy chief climbed into the
> cab and drove back to the station.  The fire chief said "we were never
> here." and also drove back.  Since I was a seasonal employee I happily
> took the call from the city manager.  If he had fired me I would have
> received unemployment for the entire school semester.  He demanded to
> know who had sprayed the water into the tree.  I told him that the unit
> in question was out on rental.  When he asked to who I reminded him that
> the city solicitor had said that information about citizens could not be
> given out to anyone.  He hung up in my ear.  I do not know if he ever
> learned who had done the dirty deed.
> --
> Tom
> --
> Tom
>
>

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:55:15 GMT, in ba.mountain-folk,David
Scruggs <bcfd36@aol.com> wrote:

>Glen Appleby wrote:
>
>> On 22 Jan 2002 23:00:03 GMT, in
>> ba.mountain-folk,robert@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Robert Kennedy)
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm kinda glad that you posted this to the whole string of groups
>> to which Scrubbs posted this, initially.
>
>BS Deleted

Very telling, Dave.  I wanted to make it very clear that I do not
have bad feeling about all firefighters.  I tried to make it
clear that some of the BCFD were not baffoons and that probibly
most firefighters were doing something of value.  You snip is and
call it "BS".

>> In the early/mid 80s, one of the crew seemed to think it was
>> great fun to drive a fire vehicle down Hwy 9 at way too high a
>> speed and happened to take out some person crossing the road,
>> near a curve, where the driver could not see at the speed that
>> they were traveling.
>
>The guy was 17 years old, in his personal vehicle. The lady in question
>was wearing a black sweater with black pants. Not an excuse, but it does
>change the situation. A tragedy for all.

OK, yer right.  If a woman happens to wear a mini skirt, it is
somewhat understandable that she would be raped.  Not an excuse,
exactly, but it changes the picture.

>> At around that time, I saw the crew of the day trying to help
>> some babe get into her locked Volvo wagon.  They tried all of the
>> standard tricks to accomplish it, but had no success.
>>
>> This lady had two adolescent kids along with her.  They were
>> rushing about, trying to see what was going on and trying to
>> help.
>>
>> Apparently, between the frustration of not being able to get the
>> car unlocked and not looking as macho as they would like, they
>> told the kids to get outta there.  ("Go away, kid.  You bother
>> me.")
>>
>> So, instead of hanging around the doors to watch and help, the 2
>> kids went around to the back of the wagon and simply opened the
>> back door.
>>
>> Not a single one of the firemen gave the kids their do.  The kids
>> got no thanks for what they did.
>
>My guess is you are twisting things again. 

Yer guess, true, since you were not even around at the time and
you couldn't possibly accept that some of yer buddies are
assholes.

>Why didn't you stop to help.

LOL!!  These guys were playing macho duck.  "I'M IN CHARGE!!
EVERYBODY STAND BACK WHILE I WORK!"

I was standing right next to the Volvo while Kathy was in the
store.  I didn't have a slick (but neither did they, apparently)
and I knew that any attempt by me to help would gain no better
results than those boiz were getting from their twisted coat
hanger.

They wanted to play the game, it was fine with me.  I considered
it to be entertainment.

Given the methods that they were attempting, I was betting with
myself about their chances of success.

Well, BC doesn't allow slot machines, yet.  What do you want from
me?

>> But those are fairly minor incidents.  They simply showed that
>> some of the firefighters had issues that really needed to be
>> dealt with before being allowed to wear the funny hat and pants.
>> Heck, one can find that type in almost any organization.
>>
>> What *really* torques me, though, is that some of the
>> firefighters seem to have no concept of confidentiality or
>> propriaty.
>>
>> On at least two occasions, I am aware of them being involved in a
>> situation (where they served no good purpose) and afterwards, we
>> *know* that they told uninvolved parties of what happened.
>>
>> On one of those occasions, it was our own dear David Scrubbs who
>> took part in spilling the beans, right here.
>
>Not of our calls. 

Well, then, you better look into folks driving around in yer
trucks and dressing up like you boiz.

>You are still pissed because Emily got ahold of your
>posts/lies/distortions about Hoot. Once again, she didn't get them from
>me. Since I do know who it was, I'll ask for permission to reveal the
>name.

Different situation, but let's go with it.

Oh, please do -- and have that person post it from his own
account, please.

See, I'm guessing that I know who it was (another bet with myself
-- just for entertainment purposes, mind you) and I'm guessing
that they don't hang out here, either.

This would strongly suggest that you made the post available to
him and he to Em.

Proud of yerself?

>> Now, I don't know what anybody else thinks that they can expect
>> as far as confidentiality, but I know that there is need for
>> medical folks to retain confidentiality.
>
>We did what? I don't think so.

Really?  *You* are the one who, in one of those situations,
posted it right here on this newsgroup.  And you deny it?

Simply amazing.

I'll adderss the last part of your response all by itself,
because it deserves special attention.

"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on who we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love"  Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby  glena@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:55:15 GMT, in ba.mountain-folk,David
Scruggs <bcfd36@aol.com> wrote:

>Glen Appleby wrote:
>
>> On one of those occasions, it was our own dear David Scrubbs who
>> took part in spilling the beans, right here.
>>
<snip>
>>
>> Now, I don't know what anybody else thinks that they can expect
>> as far as confidentiality, but I know that there is need for
>> medical folks to retain confidentiality.
>>
<snip>
>>
>> If anybody expects it from the BCFD, they may find themselves in
>> for a pretty big surprise.
>>
>> This speaks very poorly for the BCFD in general, to allow this
>> type of thing to go on.
>
>The beans were never spilled about the rumor that you were kicked out of
>the house for a week awhile back. That was sat on for a long time. It's a
>small town. Stuff will catch up with you.

Interesting.  You make my point for me.

Any marital problems between Kathy and I had absolutely nothing
to do with the BCFD.  I had not even mentioned them, yet you
decided to bring them up because, apparently, I was disclosing
too much about the inappropriate behavior of you and some of your
buddies in the department.  Yer smarting from that a bit, it
would seem.  So you try to get back at me by attempting to
disclose what you perceive to be some "deep, dark secret".

Nobody kicked anybody out of anyplace.

Now, if you and yer buddies "sat on it for a long time" (whatever
"it" may have been), that mighta been exactly what all of you
should have done since (1) it didn't involve the BCFD at all and
(2) it didn't happen as you described it (I'm comfortable going
into it, to explain more fully, but it would be somewhat hurtful
to at least one of the local businessmen who gives you boiz a
discount at the local liquor store and I don't see that as
particularly benefical).

>Sorry for the rant to the other news groups. You have now met one of our
>other resident cranks.

The reason that I posted this to the other groups was because I
was somewhat hoping that some of them might think it was
something of a Good Idea (tm) to suggest to you that these
activities do not reflect well on them as firefighters.

I posted to this group so that the locals might have some
information to suggest that they should not put blind faith in
you and your friends.

I know of one local who knows you from other circumstances.  I am
sure that, under different circumstances, you are a fine person.


However, with regard to the BCFD, you come off as a baffoon when
you lie and try to support the stupid things that go on, there.

You can change that part, if you are man enough.  It could go a
long way toward improving the reputation of the department.

"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on who we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love"  Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby  glena@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:38:53 GMT, "djgonzales"
<dj@gonzales.invalid.com> wrote:

>Read your post outloud to the household. Pretty much had to resus em both,
>they laughed so hard.
still like the scene from ploce Academy movie where Tackleberry shoots
the cat outta the tree.

Robert Kennedy <robert@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> Wrote:

Name calling and other negativity snipped.

 >> ... The fire and rescue
 >> service and the animal control service exist for one reason only
 >> and  that is to protect human beings from injury or disease.
 >
 >
 > That's actually false. I'm sort of appalled that you say you're a
 > firefighter and you would make such a claim.
 >
 >

How is it false?  The legal authority for the operation of fire services 
is the police power of the state.  The legal justification of medical 
rescue services derives from the corporate nature of local governments. 
  The common law duty of the public fire service is to protect you from 
a fire in your neighbors home.  The state has no obligation to protect 
you from a fire in your own home.  The legal axiom is that "a duty to 
all is a duty to none."  Absent the common law and statutory police 
power local governments could not exercise authority over privately 
owned animals.  The legal justification for the operation of animal 
control services is to protect you from harm that could arise out of 
contact with a diseased or otherwise dangerous animal.  Absent a hazard 
or corporate benefit to citizens the local government would not have a 
legal power to act.
--
Tom

Unlike most responses, yep, we do that...with (lots) of caveats that
come down to officers/members discretion.

I'd say those include
-- At our convience.  Don't even think about calling at 4am, or will
find Thomas D. Horne to sick on you...
-- Which usually means sometime late in the afternoon, or the
following a day or two.  By which time problem is usually self
rectified.
-- Aerial only.  If we gotta raise a ground ladder, ain't gonna
happen.  To many things could go wrong to risk going up a ground
ladder against a tree.

Let's face it...the typical Cat will jump from the tree as soon as the
firefighter is close enough for the Cat to realize just how ugly they
are.

There is a lot of extra little services we have done over the years
because we were asked.  If they're reasonable, they're done. 
Sometimes it's sorry, we can't help you with that.