🚀 go-pugleaf

Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote:

>OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>
>After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex 
>decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very 
>similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in 
>the coming weeks.
>
>The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, 
>so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second 
>board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>
>Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development 
>community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>
>This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD 
>files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. 
>Same with the software.
>
>More Info:
>http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/

What's the form factor? Does it have 0.1" headers so you could add
processor horsepower to a veroboard / stripboard? That would be great
for quick one-off tinker stuff.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 08-Mar-12 9:33 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>  wrote:
>
>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>> More Info:
>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>
> What's the form factor? Does it have 0.1" headers so you could add
> processor horsepower to a veroboard / stripboard? That would be great
> for quick one-off tinker stuff.

It is so new, I am still asking questions Nico. Still in the initial 
design stages.

I know I will be very disappointed if it doesn't have GPIO at .1"

The Olimex UEXT expansion which it will also use, is standard serial 
UART, SPI, and I2C, using 10 pins at .1"

See:
http://olimex.com/dev/OTHER/UEXT.pdf

Cheers Don...

====================


-- 
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

In article <9rq6pgFg3mU1@mid.individual.net>, 5V@2.5A says...
> 
> On 08-Mar-12 9:33 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> > Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>  wrote:
> >
> >> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
> >> More Info:
> >> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
> >
> > What's the form factor? Does it have 0.1" headers so you could add
> > processor horsepower to a veroboard / stripboard? That would be great
> > for quick one-off tinker stuff.
> 
> It is so new, I am still asking questions Nico. Still in the initial 
> design stages.
> 
> I know I will be very disappointed if it doesn't have GPIO at .1"
> 
> The Olimex UEXT expansion which it will also use, is standard serial 
> UART, SPI, and I2C, using 10 pins at .1"
> 
> See:
> http://olimex.com/dev/OTHER/UEXT.pdf
> 
> Cheers Don...
> 
> ====================

Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power 
connector.

-- 
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/>    PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>  GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

In article <9rq6pgFg3mU1@mid.individual.net>, 5V@2.5A says...
> 
> On 08-Mar-12 9:33 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> > Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>  wrote:
> >
> >> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
> >> More Info:
> >> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
> >
> > What's the form factor? Does it have 0.1" headers so you could add
> > processor horsepower to a veroboard / stripboard? That would be great
> > for quick one-off tinker stuff.
> 
> It is so new, I am still asking questions Nico. Still in the initial 
> design stages.
> 
> I know I will be very disappointed if it doesn't have GPIO at .1"
> 
> The Olimex UEXT expansion which it will also use, is standard serial 
> UART, SPI, and I2C, using 10 pins at .1"
> 
> See:
> http://olimex.com/dev/OTHER/UEXT.pdf
> 
> Cheers Don...
> 
> ====================

Word from partner who IS a teacher of ICT and computing in UK, if they
want embedded in schools (which is sadly lacking in UK) they should 
contact and get involved with Computing At School group/seminars/conf
in UK.

Plenty of open source followers there.

If need more info I can get details for you.

-- 
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/>    PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>  GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:

> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
> connector.

http://www.olimex.com/about.html

The company has over 20 years� experience in designing, prototyping and 
manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete 
electronic products.

I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)

I'm looking forward to seeing what the first proto boards look like in 
about 2 weeks.

Cheers Don...

=====================================



-- 
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote:

>On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
>
>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
>> connector.
>
>http://www.olimex.com/about.html
>
>The company has over 20 years� experience in designing, prototyping and 
>manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete 
>electronic products.
>
>I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)

You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
its a real nuisance.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>  wrote:
>
>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
>>> connector.
>>
>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
>>
>> The company has over 20 years� experience in designing, prototyping and
>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
>> electronic products.
>>
>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
>
> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
> its a real nuisance.

I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting 
holes and a DC power input plug.

So I wonder what Paul was referring to.

Cheers Don...

================


-- 
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, programmed in Basic, or C.

On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote:
> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>
> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
> the coming weeks.
>
> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>
> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>
> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
> Same with the software.
>
> More Info:
> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>
> Cheers Don...
>

The card described here sounds a lot less powerful than the Pi - slower 
processor, too little ram, poor choice of video output ("TV Video" ?), 
and weaker graphics and media acceleration.  I don't know that it could 
be a "serious competitor" to the Pi with those specs and price, unless 
there are outstanding benefits (like being easily available!).

It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere. 
These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have 
ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi.  Part of 
the reason is that it is non-profit - it appeals to free software 
developers.  It will take a lot more to persuade these people to do the 
same thing again, only for less exciting hardware with more limitations, 
and to benefit a commercial company that is making these boards for 
profit.  It helps that Olimex is providing all design files, and is 
clearly making these as low cost as possible - but being a charity beats 
even the nicest of companies in these rankings.


I think there is a market for devices like this, but they should start 
with the Pi's specs and fill in the gaps, not start with the Pi's price 
or size and rigidly stick to that budget.  If you took a Pi, added 4 GB 
NAND flash, WiFi, Bluetooth, several USB ports, an external power 
supply, and perhaps even a cheapo case, you would have a wonderful 
device.  It would cost twice as much - but it would be worth it.

On 8/03/2012 12:10 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
>>>> connector.
>>>
>>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
>>>
>>> The company has over 20 years� experience in designing, prototyping and
>>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
>>> electronic products.
>>>
>>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
>>
>> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
>> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
>> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
>> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
>> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
>> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
>> its a real nuisance.
>
> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
> holes and a DC power input plug.
>
> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>
> Cheers Don...

I don't think that it has mounting holes, DC power is via a micro USB 
connector.

On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>
> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
> the coming weeks.
>
> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>
> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>
> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
> Same with the software.
>
> More Info:
> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/

I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like 
Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the 
Pi is a waste of time.

keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:

>On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>
>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>> the coming weeks.
>>
>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>
>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>
>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>> Same with the software.
>>
>> More Info:
>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>
>I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like 
>Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the 
>Pi is a waste of time.

Maybe. But knowing Olimex they probably come up with a product that
actually appeals to people who like to build stuff. Less gadget, more
real world applications. I don't think there is a manufacturer of
embedded development boards with a wider variety. They must be doing
something right.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

>On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote:
>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>
>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>> the coming weeks.
>>
>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>
>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>
>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>> Same with the software.
>>
>> More Info:
>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>>
>> Cheers Don...
>>
>
>
>It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere. 
>These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have 
>ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi.  Part of 

The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the
software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website
and offers several fora to users.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 08/03/2012 11:46, Nico Coesel wrote:
> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>  wrote:
>
>> On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>>
>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>>> the coming weeks.
>>>
>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>>
>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>>
>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>>> Same with the software.
>>>
>>> More Info:
>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>>>
>>> Cheers Don...
>>>
>>
>>
>> It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere.
>> These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have
>> ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi.  Part of
>
> The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the
> software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website
> and offers several fora to users.
>

Support from Freescale is something totally different from community 
support.  It's a good start, but it is not the same.  It just means that 
the basic BSP is in place for Android, Linux and Wince of some 
particular version.  There is no guarantee that any of the changes, 
patches, drivers, etc., make their way back to the mainline.  There is 
no guarantee that the anything will be supported in future versions. 
There is no guarantee that source will be available for third-party work 
commissioned by Freescale, or that the source that is provided is 
suitable for future use, or that there will be support in the future.  I 
have seen these sorts of problems before from Freescale, where we had an 
iMX evaluation card.  It came with a Linux build and BSP.  But the chip 
had a graphics accelerator, and the driver for that was partially closed 
source, and developed by a third-party (paid for by Freescale).  So we 
had to choose between keeping the out-of-date Linux kernel provided with 
the BSP, or compiling a new kernel but losing the accelerated graphics. 
  Freescale would not pay the third-party to update the graphics drivers 
- they were already promoting the next iMX chip instead.  I don't know 
if Freescale has done it better this time, but that's a danger you face 
when support is by manufacturer only.

The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen 
well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major 
software packages like xmbc.

On 8/03/2012 9:28 PM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au>  wrote:
>
>> On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>>
>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>>> the coming weeks.
>>>
>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>>
>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>>
>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>>> Same with the software.
>>>
>>> More Info:
>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>>
>> I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like
>> Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the
>> Pi is a waste of time.
>
> Maybe. But knowing Olimex they probably come up with a product that
> actually appeals to people who like to build stuff. Less gadget, more
> real world applications. I don't think there is a manufacturer of
> embedded development boards with a wider variety. They must be doing
> something right.
>
I think that people are missing the point with the Pi, it isn't intended 
as an embedded development board, it is a small cheap and fairly capable 
Linux system. From the specs so far, it looks the more capable of the 
two, but I'll leave judgement until I've seen both.

Hopefully both will find their audience, but I'll try the Pi first.

David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

>On 08/03/2012 11:46, Nico Coesel wrote:
>> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>>>
>>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>>>> the coming weeks.
>>>>
>>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>>>
>>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>>>
>>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>>>> Same with the software.
>>>>
>>>> More Info:
>>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Don...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere.
>>> These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have
>>> ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi.  Part of
>>
>> The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the
>> software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website
>> and offers several fora to users.
>>
>
>Support from Freescale is something totally different from community 
>support.  It's a good start, but it is not the same.  It just means that 
>iMX evaluation card.  It came with a Linux build and BSP.  But the chip 
>had a graphics accelerator, and the driver for that was partially closed 
>source, and developed by a third-party (paid for by Freescale).  So we 
>had to choose between keeping the out-of-date Linux kernel provided with 
>the BSP, or compiling a new kernel but losing the accelerated graphics. 

What is the problem with an 'out of date' kernel? If it works, it
works. Bug fixes can often be backported without much problems.

>  Freescale would not pay the third-party to update the graphics drivers 
>- they were already promoting the next iMX chip instead.  I don't know 
>if Freescale has done it better this time, but that's a danger you face 
>when support is by manufacturer only.

The same goes for any PC videocard.

>The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen 
>well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major 
>software packages like xmbc.

I see the same problem with the RP if Broadcom doesn't provide a new
graphics driver.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

In comp.arch.embedded keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:
> I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like 
> Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the 
> Pi is a waste of time.

If you read the other thread completely, that includes Olimex. But 
knowing they have a competing product on the way helps explain some of 
their negative comments about the Pi.

-a

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:40:38 +0100, David Brown wrote:

> The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen
> well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major
> software packages like xmbc.

Still some parts of the PI are closed tight, NDA's and that stuff, which 
is what turned me completely off after the initial enthusiasm.
So any competition in that field is welcome, especially if it brings more 
openness.

On 08/03/2012 13:21, Nico Coesel wrote:
> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>  wrote:
>
>> On 08/03/2012 11:46, Nico Coesel wrote:
>>> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>>>>
>>>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>>>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>>>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>>>>> the coming weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>>>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>>>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>>>>
>>>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>>>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>>>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>>>>> Same with the software.
>>>>>
>>>>> More Info:
>>>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers Don...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere.
>>>> These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have
>>>> ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi.  Part of
>>>
>>> The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the
>>> software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website
>>> and offers several fora to users.
>>>
>>
>> Support from Freescale is something totally different from community
>> support.  It's a good start, but it is not the same.  It just means that
>> iMX evaluation card.  It came with a Linux build and BSP.  But the chip
>> had a graphics accelerator, and the driver for that was partially closed
>> source, and developed by a third-party (paid for by Freescale).  So we
>> had to choose between keeping the out-of-date Linux kernel provided with
>> the BSP, or compiling a new kernel but losing the accelerated graphics.
>
> What is the problem with an 'out of date' kernel? If it works, it
> works. Bug fixes can often be backported without much problems.
>

And when it doesn't support newer hardware, it doesn't support newer 
hardware.  Bug fixes, and in particular newer features and drivers, can 
/not/ be backported without a lot of effort.

In our particular case, we wanted support for a particular wireless 
interface.  I wasn't directly involved, so I don't know the details, but 
we were faced with the choice of decent graphics or wireless connection, 
but not both without a great deal of time and effort.

>>   Freescale would not pay the third-party to update the graphics drivers
>> - they were already promoting the next iMX chip instead.  I don't know
>> if Freescale has done it better this time, but that's a danger you face
>> when support is by manufacturer only.
>
> The same goes for any PC videocard.

No, the same does not apply to PC video cards for two reasons.  One is 
that the third-party work commissioned by Freescale was badly done, and 
very tightly tied to the kernel version (so much so that it raises 
immediate suspicions of gpl violations).  Secondly, Freescale dropped 
all efforts to support and update these drivers as soon as they had 
started promoting the next version of the iMX device.

In the world of PC video cards, there is a better (though far from 
perfect) separation between the closed-source drivers and the kernel, 
the manufacturers make drivers to support a range of video cards and 
usually keep support for older cards in their newer drivers, and they 
try to keep reasonably up-to-date with kernel changes.

>
>> The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen
>> well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major
>> software packages like xmbc.
>
> I see the same problem with the RP if Broadcom doesn't provide a new
> graphics driver.
>

Yes indeed, this could well occur, and it is a risk with the way 
Broadcom is doing the drivers for the graphics unit (rather than 
providing documentation for an open-source effort).  We can only hope 
that the Pi will help put pressure onto Broadcom to release its drivers 
as open source, or to provide the required documentation to let others 
write drivers.  It has happened with some of Broadcom's WiFi drivers, 
and may happen here too.

keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:

>On 8/03/2012 12:10 PM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>>> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
>>>>> connector.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
>>>>
>>>> The company has over 20 years� experience in designing, prototyping and
>>>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
>>>> electronic products.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
>>>
>>> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
>>> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
>>> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
>>> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
>>> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
>>> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
>>> its a real nuisance.
>>
>> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
>> holes and a DC power input plug.
>>
>> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>>
>> Cheers Don...
>
>I don't think that it has mounting holes, DC power is via a micro USB 
>connector.

I see no mounting holes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg

It would be very nice if the Olimex board becomes something like this
board:
http://www.conitec.net/english/linuxboard.php

The board by Conitec is just too expensive. I did look at it to build
products around but the price was a showstopper.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Nico Coesel wrote:

> What is the problem with an 'out of date' kernel? If it works, it
> works. Bug fixes can often be backported without much problems.

Well, "if it works".  We got caught by that with an ARM9 Linux board.  The 
manufacturer's plan seemed to be to design bespoke products, then make some 
more money by offering the hardware on the open market (nothing wrong with 
that idea, IMHO.)  But the original customer got a 2.4 kernel and wanted 
nothing more.  USB was the major I/O on the board, and all the really useful 
USB features came in kernel version 2.6.  We couldn't upgrade ourselves 
because of proprietary SD card drivers.  The original customer didn't want 
an upgrade.  The manufacturer wouldn't release an upgrade.  There we were.  
Mini-ITX boards work just fine.

	Mel.

In article <9rqf87FadnU1@mid.individual.net>, 5V@2.5A says...
> 
> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> > Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>  wrote:
> >
> >> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
> >>> connector.
> >>
> >> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
> >>
> >> The company has over 20 years? experience in designing, prototyping and
> >> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
> >> electronic products.
> >>
> >> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
> >
> > You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
> > experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
> > clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
> > there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
> > version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
> > where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
> > its a real nuisance.
> 
> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting 
> holes and a DC power input plug.
> 
> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
> 
> Cheers Don...
> 
> ================

All the pictures and user guide show NO mounting holes and was discussed
early in rPI thread. Without ability to mount on or in something for
education it will be a nightmare. Let alone more will be "lost" or
is sometimes known as "trousered".

Power is by MicroB USB connector, and takes 700mA according to User 
Guide. So I see a lot of problems with crappy cables being used to power 
it and PCs complaining about over current.

-- 
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/>    PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>  GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

On 3/8/2012 8:20 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>
> I see no mounting holes:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg
>
> It would be very nice if the Olimex board becomes something like this
> board:
> http://www.conitec.net/english/linuxboard.php
>
> The board by Conitec is just too expensive. I did look at it to build
> products around but the price was a showstopper.
>
I wonder if Conitec had portrayed their board as a educational 
non-profit board would they have had thousands of people clamoring to 
buy one, and the price would have dropped to a reasonable level ??

Building 100 of anything is expensive, build 10,000 can get cheap in a 
hurry.

Just wondering....

hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> wrote:

>On 3/8/2012 8:20 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>>
>> I see no mounting holes:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg
>>
>> It would be very nice if the Olimex board becomes something like this
>> board:
>> http://www.conitec.net/english/linuxboard.php
>>
>> The board by Conitec is just too expensive. I did look at it to build
>> products around but the price was a showstopper.
>>
>I wonder if Conitec had portrayed their board as a educational 
>non-profit board would they have had thousands of people clamoring to 
>buy one, and the price would have dropped to a reasonable level ??

Perhaps. But others boards are not really cheap either. However, the
performance of the Conitec board is very poor. The same price will buy
you a board with an 800MHz Cortex A8 CPU and 512MB of memory. It seems
Conitec moved itself into the market of professional device
programmers. Over a decade ago I bought one of their Galep
programmers. Really nice but nowadays you can buy a Chinese programmer
for 1/10th the price Conitec is charging.

>Building 100 of anything is expensive, build 10,000 can get cheap in a 
>hurry.

Exactly. Imagine being able to put something together on a piece of
stripboard or a PCB you etch yourself and put some real processing
horsepower into it for a small amount of money.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 09-Mar-12 2:20 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:

>>> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
>>> holes and a DC power input plug.
>>>
>>> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>>>
>>> Cheers Don...
>>
>> I don't think that it has mounting holes, DC power is via a micro USB
>> connector.
>
> I see no mounting holes:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgR74Kp6Ws4
was the first video found by google, and it has a power plug and holes.

Have removed both in later versions?

Cheers Don...

===================


-- 
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

On 3/8/2012 10:44 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> On 09-Mar-12 2:20 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>
>>>> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
>>>> holes and a DC power input plug.
>>>>
>>>> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Don...
>>>
>>> I don't think that it has mounting holes, DC power is via a micro USB
>>> connector.
>>
>> I see no mounting holes:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgR74Kp6Ws4
> was the first video found by google, and it has a power plug and holes.
>
> Have removed both in later versions?
>
> Cheers Don...
>
> ===================
>
>
I think an opportunity to make a plastic case that captures this board 
with holes for the connectors. (won't need holes in the board)

Maybe that's what they were thinking of doing, get another revenue 
source flowing.

Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote:

>On 09-Mar-12 2:20 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>
>>>> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
>>>> holes and a DC power input plug.
>>>>
>>>> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Don...
>>>
>>> I don't think that it has mounting holes, DC power is via a micro USB
>>> connector.
>>
>> I see no mounting holes:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgR74Kp6Ws4
>was the first video found by google, and it has a power plug and holes.
>
>Have removed both in later versions?

This is clearly a Broadcom evaluation board. Not the RP itself.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 9/03/2012 3:00 AM, Paul wrote:
> In article<9rqf87FadnU1@mid.individual.net>, 5V@2.5A says...
>>
>> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>>> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
>>>>> connector.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
>>>>
>>>> The company has over 20 years? experience in designing, prototyping and
>>>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
>>>> electronic products.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
>>>
>>> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
>>> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
>>> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
>>> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
>>> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
>>> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
>>> its a real nuisance.
>>
>> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
>> holes and a DC power input plug.
>>
>> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>>
>> Cheers Don...
>>
>> ================
>
> All the pictures and user guide show NO mounting holes and was discussed
> early in rPI thread. Without ability to mount on or in something for
> education it will be a nightmare. Let alone more will be "lost" or
> is sometimes known as "trousered".
>
> Power is by MicroB USB connector, and takes 700mA according to User
> Guide. So I see a lot of problems with crappy cables being used to power
> it and PCs complaining about over current.
>
Why would you want to power it from a PC? A wall wart would be a much 
better idea, it is a standalone system after all it doesn't need a PC 
connection to program it like an Arduino.

In article <4f59230c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, keith@nowhere.com.au says...
> 
> On 9/03/2012 3:00 AM, Paul wrote:
> > In article<9rqf87FadnU1@mid.individual.net>, 5V@2.5A says...
> >>
> >> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
> >>> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>   wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
> >>>>> connector.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
> >>>>
> >>>> The company has over 20 years? experience in designing, prototyping and
> >>>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
> >>>> electronic products.
> >>>>
> >>>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
> >>>
> >>> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
> >>> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
> >>> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
> >>> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
> >>> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
> >>> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
> >>> its a real nuisance.
> >>
> >> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
> >> holes and a DC power input plug.
> >>
> >> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
> >>
> >> Cheers Don...
> >>
> >> ================
> >
> > All the pictures and user guide show NO mounting holes and was discussed
> > early in rPI thread. Without ability to mount on or in something for
> > education it will be a nightmare. Let alone more will be "lost" or
> > is sometimes known as "trousered".
> >
> > Power is by MicroB USB connector, and takes 700mA according to User
> > Guide. So I see a lot of problems with crappy cables being used to power
> > it and PCs complaining about over current.
> >
> Why would you want to power it from a PC? A wall wart would be a much 
> better idea, it is a standalone system after all it doesn't need a PC 
> connection to program it like an Arduino.

Firstly it is suggested by them to use an MP3/camera/phone USB to microB
cable in the user guide.

Secondly the base price does not include a wall wart. I don't think it
even includes a USB cable either.

Thirdly because that is what people WILL be doing

A classromm with computers already why get out wall warts (which at 
least one kid will trouser as he could do with one or thjinks it will be 
cool).

A classroom with other computers already there teacher does not have
to hand out an extra thing.

People at home forget to get a wall wart or take board to show someone 
else or nerdy kid takes with him to 'play' with elsewhere and forgets 
wall wart.

Someone travelling between countries and different shaped holes in walls
so wall wart does not work.


-- 
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/>    PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>  GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

On 9/03/2012 8:54 AM, Paul wrote:
> In article<4f59230c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, keith@nowhere.com.au says...
>>
>> On 9/03/2012 3:00 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> In article<9rqf87FadnU1@mid.individual.net>, 5V@2.5A says...
>>>>
>>>> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
>>>>> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power
>>>>>>> connector.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The company has over 20 years? experience in designing, prototyping and
>>>>>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete
>>>>>> electronic products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of
>>>>> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about
>>>>> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while
>>>>> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old'
>>>>> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it
>>>>> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project
>>>>> its a real nuisance.
>>>>
>>>> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting
>>>> holes and a DC power input plug.
>>>>
>>>> So I wonder what Paul was referring to.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Don...
>>>>
>>>> ================
>>>
>>> All the pictures and user guide show NO mounting holes and was discussed
>>> early in rPI thread. Without ability to mount on or in something for
>>> education it will be a nightmare. Let alone more will be "lost" or
>>> is sometimes known as "trousered".
>>>
>>> Power is by MicroB USB connector, and takes 700mA according to User
>>> Guide. So I see a lot of problems with crappy cables being used to power
>>> it and PCs complaining about over current.
>>>
>> Why would you want to power it from a PC? A wall wart would be a much
>> better idea, it is a standalone system after all it doesn't need a PC
>> connection to program it like an Arduino.
>
> Firstly it is suggested by them to use an MP3/camera/phone USB to microB
> cable in the user guide.
>
> Secondly the base price does not include a wall wart. I don't think it
> even includes a USB cable either.

A wall wart with included micro USB connector costs less that 10 bucks. 
That is if you don't have one already, virtually every smartphone other 
than Apple's products use them as a charger.

> Thirdly because that is what people WILL be doing

What makes you think that? It makes no sense to do so

> A classromm with computers already why get out wall warts (which at
> least one kid will trouser as he could do with one or thjinks it will be
> cool).

Not if they have a bunch at home already

> A classroom with other computers already there teacher does not have
> to hand out an extra thing.

You don't hand them out, they are set up in the computer lab already 
along with the screen, mouse and keyboard.

> People at home forget to get a wall wart or take board to show someone
> else or nerdy kid takes with him to 'play' with elsewhere and forgets
> wall wart.

USB wall warts are ubiquitous.

> Someone travelling between countries and different shaped holes in walls
> so wall wart does not work.

Most USB wall warts are of the universal voltage type, you just buy a 
cheap adaptor. I even have one that came with slip in connectors that 
cover 90% of the power sockets in use in the world.

> A classromm with computers already why get out wall warts (which at
> least one kid will trouser as he could do with one or thjinks it will be
> cool).
>
> A classroom with other computers already there teacher does not have
> to hand out an extra thing.

If the classroom already has computers, you don't need to get the 
Raspberry Pi at all. Just let the kids use the regular computers.

On 2012-03-09, Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4f59a5a8$0$6882$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>, usenet+5@c-
> scape.nl says...
>> 
>> > A classromm with computers already why get out wall warts (which at
>> > least one kid will trouser as he could do with one or thjinks it will be
>> > cool).
>> >
>> > A classroom with other computers already there teacher does not have
>> > to hand out an extra thing.
>> 
>> If the classroom already has computers, you don't need to get the 
>> Raspberry Pi at all. Just let the kids use the regular computers.
>
> Yes you do as IT services will not allow loading of packet sniffers
> practicals with network addressing, subnets and a myriad of other things 
> done to those systems.

It's only a couple of years since I did my CCNA at the local college
as evening classes.  Their solution was quite simple: each time
you do an IT refresh keep back twenty or thirty old machines for
the tinkering classes.  If a clean OS install is needed the student
does it themselves at the start of the class restoring from a Norton
Ghost image on DVD.  Any network infrastructure or servers needed
for the class is similarly set up at the start of the class.  This
was for all the courses, not just Cisco.

That worked quite well for them, where each class was at least a
couple of hours but I've imagine set up and tear down would take
up too much time for schools where a lesson is only an hour or
thereabouts.

-- 
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

Additional information -2012-03-10

We started the iMX233 project, the name is OLINUXINO as it will run 
Linux natively.

The goal is EUR 30 single board linux computer.
This is complete open source, open hardware project which is to be 
hosted on GitHub .

The specs are:

- iMX233 454Mhz ARM9 processor
- 64MB of RAM
- 2 USB hosts
- 1 100MB Ethernet port
- composite Video 640�480 pixels, color, with PXP graphics accelerator 
for picture manipulations
- micro SD card for boot and disk storage
- headphones stereo DAC with 99dB SNR
- linear input stereo ADC with 85dB SNR
- UEXT connector
- 31 GPIOs for interfacing including UART,SPI,I2C,PWMs

Although this board will run Linux there is possibility DM-BASIC to be 
ported on it and pre-estimated this MCU should run about 1 Million Basic 
instructions per second, with 64MB RAM available for applications.

The very preliminary schematic is uploaded on GitHub, the goal is next 
week to have complete schematic and routed board and in 2 weeks 
prototypes for the developers.

Cheers Don...

============================

-- 
Don McKenzie

Dontronics: http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

DuinoMite the PIC32 $35 Basic Computer-MicroController
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/the-maximite-computer.html
Just add a VGA monitor or TV, and PS2 Keyboard.
Arduino Shield, Programmed in Basic, or C.

On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Mar 2012 20:14:36 GMT) it happened nico@puntnl.niks
(Nico Coesel) wrote in <4f5a5f28.4013572062@news.kpn.nl>:

>Arlet Ottens <usenet+5@c-scape.nl> wrote:
>
>>On 03/09/2012 06:07 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:26:09 GMT) it happened nico@puntnl.niks
>>> (Nico Coesel) wrote in<4f5a042f.3990283062@news.kpn.nl>:
>>>
>>>>> I made a little 9-20V to +5 V switcher with USB connector to charge a real Chinese mediaplayer I have,
>>>>> that because I have plenty 12V wall warts.
>>>>> Adds an other 5$ at least even if DIY.
>>>>
>>>> You know about Dealextreme.com? You probably could have saved some
>>>> money and clear some space by throwing the 12V wall warts away :-).
>>>
>>> Oh, I forgot to mention WHY I did the separate charger...
>>> The PC USB port would switch itself off because of too much current,
>>> IIRC it is only 600mA in the spec? Not sure.
>>> If the strawberry pie is indeed 700mA that will promise a whole
>>> lot of fun on a whole lot of peesees.
>>
>>The USB 2.0 spec only allows for 500 mA maximum current after the device 
>>has been configured. Unconfigured devices are only allowed 100 mA. For 
>
>Sorry, but that is pure theory. In reality 99% of the PCs will happily
>deliver >1A through their USB port. Current regulation circuitry and
>controlling it adds extra costs and customers might think their PC is
>broken because the devices are not working or are not getting charged.
>Manufacturers want to avoid that extra hassle.
>
>I just tested a USB port of my PC with a dummy load and it supplies
>over 1A without a device attached.

Well, mine crapped out at a much lower current.
It is just that ignoring specs that makes that strawberry pudding a request
for disaster.

On a sunny day (Fri, 9 Mar 2012 21:33:04 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
Anders.Montonen@kapsi.spam.stop.fi.invalid wrote in
<jjdsuf$2ch$1@speranza.aioe.org>:

>In comp.arch.embedded Nico Coesel <nico@puntnl.niks> wrote:
>> Arlet Ottens <usenet+5@c-scape.nl> wrote:
>>>The USB 2.0 spec only allows for 500 mA maximum current after the device 
>>>has been configured. Unconfigured devices are only allowed 100 mA. For 
>> Sorry, but that is pure theory. In reality 99% of the PCs will happily
>> deliver >1A through their USB port.
>
>The only computers I've seen complaining about USB current consumption is 
>Macs, both desktops and laptops, and running both OS X and Windows. You get 
>this nice loop where the OS turns off the host port, pops up a warning 
>dialog, automatically turns the host port back on, turns it back off again, 
>pops up another dialog etc. I was still dismissing dialogs for almost a 
>minute after yanking out the device.
>
>-a

Right, when I plugged the little Chinese mediaplayer into my PC, battery empty,
I heard a ticking noise.
It was coming from the player, charging, power disconnect, off, on (tick)
charging, power disconnect, off, on (tick)....
:-)

On Mar 9, 6:50 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Mar 2012 21:54:33 -0000) it happened Paul
> <p...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote in
> <MPG.29c33af090e5be4c989...@172.16.0.1>:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Firstly it is suggested by them to use an MP3/camera/phone USB to microB
> >cable in the user guide.
>
> >Secondly the base price does not include a wall wart. I don't think it
> >even includes a USB cable either.
>
> >Thirdly because that is what people WILL be doing
>
> >A classromm with computers already why get out wall warts (which at
> >least one kid will trouser as he could do with one or thjinks it will be
> >cool).
>
> >A classroom with other computers already there teacher does not have
> >to hand out an extra thing.
>
> >People at home forget to get a wall wart or take board to show someone
> >else or nerdy kid takes with him to 'play' with elsewhere and forgets
> >wall wart.
>
> >Someone travelling between countries and different shaped holes in walls
> >so wall wart does not work.
>
> On top of that it needs 5V *stabilized*.
> That is a big problem, it should have been 7 to 20 V unstabilized,
> or 2 to 20V unstabilized,
> so you could use it in a car or some battery powered system.
> the extra regulator is expensive.
> Most new stuff works on 3.3V or some type of Li Ion battery,
>
> I made a little 9-20V to +5 V switcher with USB connector to charge a real Chinese mediaplayer I have,
> that because I have plenty 12V wall warts.
> Adds an other 5$ at least even if DIY.

There are LOTS of car adapters that provide a 5 volt USB socket, just
add standard cable...  Mail order places have them for under $5.

Rick

On Mar 9, 5:53 pm, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> On 2012-03-09, Nico Coesel <n...@puntnl.niks> wrote:
>
> >>On top of that it needs 5V *stabilized*.
> >>That is a big problem, it should have been 7 to 20 V unstabilized,
>
> > Is this a hard spec or do they just say that to make it simple. I see
> > a 3.3V regulator close to RP's power connector.
>
> the core runs off that regulator, the USB socket and the expansion
> connectors have the input power directly connected.  The ethernet and
> the onboard USB hub may need 5V.
>
> --
> ⚂⚃ 100% natural
>
> --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to n...@netfront.net ---

Very unlikely anything needs 5 volts other than the USB connector
assuming it is a HOST connector for mice, keyboards, etc.  But even
then the 5 volt port will not need a tightly regulated 5 volts, it
just needs to be within the input spec... which is somewhat tight at
4.75 to 5.5 volts typically.  But to be sure you would need to check
the data sheets for the parts in question.  Since there is no
schematic available currently, can't do that.

Rick

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 07:10:28 +1100, Chris Baird
<abuse@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:

> David> too little ram
>
>64MB! (and promises it running Android!)
>
>Even a programming language like Haskell, run from the command line,
>needs more core than that. C++ programs can easy need 200MB+ of real RAM
>to compile.

Um, not.  That is the GUI/DE that eats all that RAM.  The actual
functionality is maybe 5 to 10 % of that.  Basic running interactively,
with a file system was done in 16 K on a 6502.  You have heard of
bloatware.
>
>Sell it for $10 GST+shipping.inc, and you might find a market. 
>
> David> Part of the reason is that it is non-profit - it appeals to free
> David> software developers. It will take a lot more to persuade these
> David> people to do the same thing again, only for less exciting
> David> hardware with more limitations, and to benefit a commercial
> David> company that is making these boards for profit.
>
>Exactly.

On 08/03/2012 08:21, keithr wrote:
> On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>
>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>> the coming weeks.
>>
>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>
>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>
>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>> Same with the software.
>>
>> More Info:
>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>
> I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like
> Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the
> Pi is a waste of time.
>


Hmm, strangely enough there was a link in another thread here where the 
main guys from Olimex were trashing the R-pi a bit and doubting they 
could make it for the price.

Do you think they have an ulterior motive and not exactly unbiased position?

On Mar 10, 4:44 pm, David <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 08/03/2012 08:21, keithr wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> >> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>
> >> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
> >> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
> >> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
> >> the coming weeks.
>
> >> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
> >> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
> >> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>
> >> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
> >> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>
> >> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
> >> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
> >> Same with the software.
>
> >> More Info:
> >>http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>
> > I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like
> > Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the
> > Pi is a waste of time.
>
> Hmm, strangely enough there was a link in another thread here where the
> main guys from Olimex were trashing the R-pi a bit and doubting they
> could make it for the price.
>
> Do you think they have an ulterior motive and not exactly unbiased position?

I'm sure they wish they could sell 10,000 of anything in the first day
its on the market.  Wouldn't we all?

Rick

In article <95fb58fb-5288-4f2e-9c49-
e42988712d2b@q18g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Mar 10, 4:44�pm, David <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > On 08/03/2012 08:21, keithr wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> > >> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
> >
> > >> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
> > >> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
> > >> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
> > >> the coming weeks.
> >
> > >> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
> > >> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
> > >> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
> >
> > >> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
> > >> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
> >
> > >> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
> > >> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
> > >> Same with the software.
> >
> > >> More Info:
> > >>http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
> >
> > > I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like
> > > Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the
> > > Pi is a waste of time.
> >
> > Hmm, strangely enough there was a link in another thread here where the
> > main guys from Olimex were trashing the R-pi a bit and doubting they
> > could make it for the price.
> >
> > Do you think they have an ulterior motive and not exactly unbiased position?
> 
> I'm sure they wish they could sell 10,000 of anything in the first day
> its on the market.  Wouldn't we all?
> 
Ummm-it's not too hard to sell 10,000 of anything if you spec it right 
and don't  actually deliver the product!  ;-)


Mark Borgerson

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:42:25 +1100, Chris Baird
<abuse@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:

>>> 64MB! (and promises it running Android!)
>>> 
>>> Even a programming language like Haskell, run from the command line,
>>> needs more core than that. C++ programs can easy need 200MB+ of real
>>> RAM to compile.
>
> > Um, not. That is the GUI/DE that eats all that RAM. The actual
> > functionality is maybe 5 to 10 % of that.
>
>Are you using the Hollywood edition of C++ with Gibson extensions
>enabled? (Usually installed under the name 'Java'.)
>
>Memory usage while compiling KDE4 C++ sources from the command line:
>
>  PID USERNAME PRI NICE   SIZE   RES STATE      TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
> 1333 root      25    0   332M  316M CPU/0      0:17 96.03% 57.03% cc1plus
> 1351 root      85    0    48M   32M pager_/4   0:00  2.47%  1.46% as
>
>316MB in use by the compiler. C++ is Peeeg. And then there's Java, which
>is Mrs Peeeeg after 8 years of marriage..
>
>And it was said this proposed supercheap 64MB RAM RaspberryPi killer
>would run Android and its Java systems. Uh, you need at least 768MB of
>RAM for Android to be usable at all.

The toolchain were not on the RPi. It was just the target.  Just the same
your point has been made, those toolchains take gigs.

?-)

On 11/03/2012 05:13, Mark Borgerson wrote:
> In article<95fb58fb-5288-4f2e-9c49-
> e42988712d2b@q18g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Mar 10, 4:44 pm, David<nos...@nospam.com>  wrote:
>>> On 08/03/2012 08:21, keithr wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
>>>
>>>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex
>>>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very
>>>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in
>>>>> the coming weeks.
>>>
>>>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen,
>>>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second
>>>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board.
>>>
>>>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development
>>>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers.
>>>
>>>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD
>>>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them.
>>>>> Same with the software.
>>>
>>>>> More Info:
>>>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/
>>>
>>>> I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like
>>>> Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the
>>>> Pi is a waste of time.
>>>
>>> Hmm, strangely enough there was a link in another thread here where the
>>> main guys from Olimex were trashing the R-pi a bit and doubting they
>>> could make it for the price.
>>>
>>> Do you think they have an ulterior motive and not exactly unbiased position?
>>
>> I'm sure they wish they could sell 10,000 of anything in the first day
>> its on the market.  Wouldn't we all?
>>
> Ummm-it's not too hard to sell 10,000 of anything if you spec it right
> and don't  actually deliver the product!  ;-)
>
>
> Mark Borgerson
>

None of that is by any means trivial.

You need to put significant effort into getting that information out to 
the right people, convincing the sales channel that this is the right 
thing to push as well as the media.

Then get 10000 people to commit to buying before delivery

Anyone who can do that needs to put in a lot of effort.

Not delivering - well that is easy.
Keeping momentum and recovering from it could be challenging.

I'm just not so sure why so many people appear to want them to fail.

On 2012-03-11, David <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> On 11/03/2012 05:13, Mark Borgerson wrote:

> Not delivering - well that is easy.
> Keeping momentum and recovering from it could be challenging.
>
> I'm just not so sure why so many people appear to want them to fail.

Look at the price, 

 it's competing with thinks like Olimexino  Arm7 (vs Arm11) , 128K ram
(vz 512) . no netowork (vs onboard 10/100 (over usb)), no video.

It's even challenging beaglebone, 2/3 of the features at 1/3 the price.

 there's even 8-bit boards out there with higher prices.

-- 
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---