🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <2oeuct$sjt@mizar.usc.edu>, mankin@mizar.usc.edu (Eric
Mankin) writes:
|> Pam Kramer, the SoCal correspondent for the SJ Mercury News,
|> is working on a story about the reopening of the Santa Monica
|> Freeway and would appreciate anyone (preferably with a credential)
|> who can shed light on the different ways northern and southern
|> Californians refer to numbered roads.
|> 
|> South of the Techachapis, roads are simple "the 10," "the I-5,"
|> "The 405"
|> 
|> In Northern California, people add the word 'highway,' or the
|> equivalent. So the same road is "highway 101" up north, but
|> simply "the 101" when it's the Ventura Freeway.
|> 
|> How old is this distinction? Any thoughts as to where it comes
|> from?  Kramer's on deadline: if you have ideas, please call her
|> at (213)938-6106 as soon as possible. 
|> 
|> 

Around the SF bay area, I have never heard anyone say anything
besides the number.  It's just "280" or "101", never "the 101" or
"highway 101".  But then again, almost noone here was born in 
California.

--

In article <2oeuct$sjt@mizar.usc.edu> mankin@mizar.usc.edu (Eric Mankin) writes:
>Pam Kramer, the SoCal correspondent for the SJ Mercury News,
>is working on a story about the reopening of the Santa Monica
>Freeway and would appreciate anyone (preferably with a credential)
>who can shed light on the different ways northern and southern
>Californians refer to numbered roads.
>
>South of the Techachapis, roads are simple "the 10," "the I-5,"
>"The 405"
>
>How old is this distinction? Any thoughts as to where it comes
>from?  Kramer's on deadline: if you have ideas, please call her
>at (213)938-6106 as soon as possible. 

Jeez, now I feel like a geezer.  I've always called 'em by their
names:

Santa Monica Fwy - I10 westbound from downtown LA to Santa Monica San

Bernardino Fwy - I10 eastbound from downtown LA to San Berdoo 

Ventura Fwy - US 134 and 101 westbound from about Pasadena to Ventura.

Hollywood Fwy - US 101 from downtown LA to Hollywood; also US 170
from north SFV to Hollywood.

Foothill Fwy - I210 (entire length).

Pomona Fwy - SR 60 (entire length).

Glendale Fwy - SR 2 (entire length).

Simi Valley Fwy - SR 118 (entire length).

Orange Fwy - SR 57 (entire length).

Golden State Fwy - I5 from downtown LA to points north (Bakersfield
and Sacramento.

Santa Ana Fwy - I5 south from downtown LA to OC and Santa Ana.

San Diego Fwy - I405 (entire length).

Garden Grove Fwy - SR 22 (entire length).

Corona Highway (not a fwy!) - SR 71 (entire length).

Antelope Valley Fwy - SR 14 (entire length).

Harbor Fwy - I110 from downtown LA to San Pedro/LA harbor.

Pasadena Fwy - I110 from downtown LA to Pasadena.


The names are not only mnemonic but for the most part tell you
something about where you're going or coming.  I280 in the bay area is the
"Junipero Serra Fwy" from San Jose to San Francisco -- pretty name and
road but not descriptive.

Cheers,

:kg

In article <2ofb3l$30p@kraz.usc.edu> karl@kraz.usc.edu (Karl Geiger) writes:
>Jeez, now I feel like a geezer.  I've always called 'em by their
>names:
>
>Santa Monica Fwy - I10 westbound from downtown LA to Santa Monica San
>(etc., etc.)

You left out the 605.  Do you really call it by name -- San Gabriel
Valley River Riverbed Freeway, or whatever?  That one's a mouthful.

			--Marlena

>In article <2oeuct$sjt@mizar.usc.edu>, mankin@mizar.usc.edu (Eric
>Mankin) writes:
>|> In Northern California, people add the word 'highway,' or the
>|> equivalent. So the same road is "highway 101" up north, but
>|> simply "the 101" when it's the Ventura Freeway.
>|> 
I don't know very many native BA'ers, but when my sister
moved to Berkeley (she used to live in SoCal), she suddenly
reffered to "highway 680" and "highway 880".  She worked
as an elementary school teacher, so she was probably
exposed to more native BA'ers.

One thing I notice about people in SoCal is that they
often refer to the freeways by geography, as in the
"Harbor Freeway", "Orange Crush", "San Bernadino
Freeway", etc.  I always thought this was done to
throw off visitors, tourists, and non-natives.  Kind
of a "locals-only, if you're not familiar with the area
then too bad" mentality.  Oh yeah, I was born in Torrance,
spent the past three years in Berkeley, but now live
in Pasadena.

Chris

The problem with refering to freeways by name, at least in SoCal, is that 
the names and numbers don't always correspond.  For example, "The San 
Diego Freeway" applies to all of the 405 and parts of the 5.  The 5 
carries other names (Santa Ana Freeway, Golden State Highway) which I 
find confusing.

Personally, I don't have a problem with saying "the 5".  There is only 
one "5" around here and use of the definitive article seems appropriate.

In article <2ogulg$3qt@kaiwan.kaiwan.com>, Mark Perew <perew@kaiwan.com> wrote:
>The problem with refering to freeways by name, at least in SoCal, is that 
>the names and numbers don't always correspond.  For example, "The San 
>Diego Freeway" applies to all of the 405 and parts of the 5.  The 5 
>carries other names (Santa Ana Freeway, Golden State Highway) which I 
>find confusing.

That's because the name came BEFORE the numbers.

-- 
    ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) **********
    *                Daly City California:                *
    *       where San Francisco meets The Peninsula       *
    *       and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea       *
    *******************************************************

On Wed, 13 Apr 1994 18:20:46 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:

> That's because the name came BEFORE the numbers.

Not in terms of freeways. It is true for highways: names such as the xxx
turnpike did come before the Federal Highway system. In California, roads such
as the National Trails highway (later, US66) or Lincoln highway (later Rte 1)
did come before the actual numbers. But not necessarily with the Freeways,
except, perhaps, with the original two (Ramona Expwy and Arroyo Seco Parkway).
Numbers were certainly in place by the time that much of the Golden State
(1960s) and San Diego were in place. [The Santa Ana Freeway, now Rte 5, was
part of Rte 101 before the interstates, and might have had a name].

Daniel
--
[W]: The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aero.org, faigin@acm.org         [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#68228
Seen on the net: "I always thought that 'Intel Inside' was a warning required
by Truth in Advertising laws..." 

In article <2ogulg$3qt@kaiwan.kaiwan.com>
perew@kaiwan.com (Mark Perew) writes:

> The problem with refering to freeways by name, at least in SoCal, is that 
> the names and numbers don't always correspond.  For example, "The San 
> Diego Freeway" applies to all of the 405 and parts of the 5.  The 5 
> carries other names (Santa Ana Freeway, Golden State Highway) which I 
> find confusing.
> 

Try the "Hollywood" freeway. It's the 101 until it hits the 170 in
North Hollywood, where the 101 becomes the Ventura freeway and the
170 becomes the Hollywood freeway even though it goes nowhere near
Hollywood (North Hollywood doesn't count). And the 134 is the Ventura
freeway, til you get to the 101/170 split where it disappears, then
the 101 resumes being the Ventura freeway. Huh?

In article <2ofj7f$apt@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>
landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer) writes:

> Maybe the only people that Pam knows in L.A. are non-natives; it always
> seemed to me that those were the people who use "the" with the highway
> number.  Everyone I knew always used the common names for most of the
> freeways, especially the older ones.
> 
Maybe you just didn't know the right people :)

I'm a native and most everyone I know, except for those whose first
language is not English,  uses "the" before the actual number. It
sounds a little odd (to me) to say "Yeah, take 110 to 101, then get
on 170." Except for I-5 and PCH, most of us here use the article. Few
use the actual freeway name in LA, although I think it's more common
to do that in Orange County. They have a short one named after
Richard Nixon, you know.

------------
broudy@mizar.usc.edu
"My life has a superb cast but I can't figure out the plot."
--Ashleigh Brilliant

In article <cjones-130494162629@fx2.cse.ucla.edu>,
Chad Jones <cjones@gse.ucla.edu> wrote:
>In article <2ohoh1$sli@usc.edu>, broudy@mizar.usc.edu (David S. Broudy)
>wrote:
>> They have a short one named after
>> Richard Nixon, you know.
>
>After his fall from grace it was renamed the Marina Freeway.  The actual
>freeway part is about 1.5 miles long starting at Slauson Blvd. near Fox
>Hills Mall, then goes down to surface level at Culver Blvd. for about
>another mile to Lincoln Blvd.  Technically, the surface level part is
>called the "Marina Expressway" since it has traffic lights.

Actually, the section through Yorba Linda itself retains the name
"Richard M. Nixon Freeway".

Ref.:  Local signs & Thomas Bros.

>It was originally named the Richard Nixon Freeway since it was supposed to
>parallel Slauson and Imperial Highway (which is actually a street) all the
>wau out to Yorba Linda, Nixon's birthplace.

--Brendan

In article <FAIGIN.94Apr13130305@soldan.aero.org>,
Daniel P. Faigin <faigin@aero.org> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Apr 1994 18:20:46 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:
>
>> That's because the name came BEFORE the numbers.
>
>Not in terms of freeways. It is true for highways: names such as the xxx
>turnpike did come before the Federal Highway system. In California, roads such
>as the National Trails highway (later, US66) or Lincoln highway (later Rte 1)
>did come before the actual numbers. But not necessarily with the Freeways,
>except, perhaps, with the original two (Ramona Expwy and Arroyo Seco Parkway).
>Numbers were certainly in place by the time that much of the Golden State
>(1960s) and San Diego were in place. [The Santa Ana Freeway, now Rte 5, was
>part of Rte 101 before the interstates, and might have had a name].

Although construction of most of the LA freeways occured after passage
of the Interstate Highway act, I was under the impression that many of
them were on the drawing boards prior to that, and that the routes were
pretty well picked, as were the names. It was in that sense that I
believe most of the freeways had names before they had Interstate
numbers. 

For local people, the names generally can mean more than the numbers
(except to the extent that the numbers are just another name). As
numbers, the numbers are mostly useful to people travelling with state
highway maps. I think to the Angeleno, "Harbor Freeway" is a lot more
useful and descriptive than a number. And, of course, the number
usually means a whole lot more than the name. You take I-10 to Blythe
as well as to Santa Monica, while "Santa Monica Freeway" means that
thing that starts downtown and ends up at the pier.

As to route numbers and names, they get moved around a lot. For
instance, here in the SFBay area, the Bayshore Freeway was originally
the Bayshore Highway, which was little more than a boulevard, complete
with sidewalks (which can still be seen in the northbound railroad
underpass just south of Redwood City). It was not 101; El Camino Real
was 101. Then the Bayshore became Alt-101. Then finally the Bayshore
became 101 and El Camino became 82 up the peninsula. 

Maybe some outsiders fine the traffic reports confusing with local
names, but I find that saying "101 northbound is closed at Sir Francis
Drake" a lot less helpful than "The Redwood Highway is closed at Sir
Francis Drake". Both are pretty meaningless to the outsider, but the
latter means more to the local.

-- 
    ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) **********
    *                Daly City California:                *
    *       where San Francisco meets The Peninsula       *
    *       and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea       *
    *******************************************************

On Thu, 14 Apr 1994 19:34:28 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:

> Although construction of most of the LA freeways occured after passage
> of the Interstate Highway act, I was under the impression that many of
> them were on the drawing boards prior to that, and that the routes were
> pretty well picked, as were the names. It was in that sense that I
> believe most of the freeways had names before they had Interstate
> numbers. 

The original proposal of the highways to be included in the Interstate system
was submitted in 1947; the Interstate highway system was created in 1944,
which authorized the initial 40,000 mi of which Calif was allocated 1,938 mi.
Most of the routes submitted were existing US or state routes (or roughly
paralleled an existing US or state rte) that the state dept. of highways
planned on upgrading or rerouting. These routes were submitted by Rte number,
not name.

> For local people, the names generally can mean more than the numbers
> (except to the extent that the numbers are just another name). 

Well, I'm a local person. Born in LA; lived here all my life.

> As numbers, the numbers are mostly useful to people travelling with state
> highway maps.

Actually, I prefer the numbers to the names, but then the history of highway
numbering is a hobby of mine.

> I think to the Angeleno, "Harbor Freeway" is a lot more
> useful and descriptive than a number. 

Really. OK... where is the northern boundary of the Harbor Freeway: the
connection with the Santa Monica, or the connection with Rte 101? What is
the Western boundary of the Santa Ana Freeway: the connection with Rte 110, or
the 5/101 interchange? Where does the Orange Freeway start: At the Rte 57/10
interchange, or at the Rte 210/30 interchange? When does the Artestia Fwy turn
into the Riverside Fwy? Where does the Moreno Valley Fwy start and the Pomona
Freeway end? Where does Simi Valley Freeway start and the San Fernando Valley
Freeway end?

> And, of course, the number usually means a whole lot more than the name. You
> take I-10 to Blythe as well as to Santa Monica, while "Santa Monica Freeway"
> means that thing that starts downtown and ends up at the pier.

Actually, I-10 is offically designated in two parts. 10(a) is what is called
the Santa Monica Freeway; 10(b) is what is called the San Bernadino Freeway,
at least in CalTrans District 5.

10  (a) from Rte 1 in Santa Monica to Rte 5 near 7th St. in Los Angeles
	[Approved as chargeable Interstate on 9/15/1955]
    (b) from Rte 101 near Mission Rd. in Los Angeles to the Arizona state line
        at the Colorado River via the vicinity of Monterey Park, Pomona,
        Colton, Indio, and Chiraco Summit, and via Blythe. [This portion
	approved as chargeable Interstate on 7/7/1947; the portion from Rte
	101 to Rte 5 was originally to have been designated as I-110, with
	I-10 sharing a route with Rte 5 between the San Bernadino and Santa
	Monica portions of Rte 10. The I-110 designation was deleted as
	chargeable interstate in August 1965 and a designation of I-10 was
	used to the Rte 101 interchange.]

> As to route numbers and names, they get moved around a lot. 

I haven't seen a lot of rte number movement, except in the great renumbering
in approximately 1959. A number of routes have been given new numbers, but the
old number has not been reused.

Daniel (who lives near the 405/118 interchange, and near the 118/5
interchange, both of which are still standing, thank you.)

--
[W]: The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aero.org, faigin@acm.org         [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#68228
Seen on the net: "I always thought that 'Intel Inside' was a warning required
by Truth in Advertising laws..." 

In article <FAIGIN.94Apr14135125@soldan.aero.org>,
Daniel P. Faigin <faigin@aero.org> wrote:

>The original proposal of the highways to be included in the Interstate system
>was submitted in 1947; the Interstate highway system was created in 1944,
>which authorized the initial 40,000 mi of which Calif was allocated 1,938 mi.
>Most of the routes submitted were existing US or state routes (or roughly
>paralleled an existing US or state rte) that the state dept. of highways
>planned on upgrading or rerouting. These routes were submitted by Rte number,
>not name.

Please clarify a point: what is the difference between the 1944
interstate system and the very hghly publicized at the time 1956
interstate highway act that resulted in the red, white and blue
shields? When the 1956 act was publicized we all thought it was
something new. That was the act that seemed to mention 41,000 miles of
autobahnen for the first time.

[...]



-- 
    ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) **********
    *                Daly City California:                *
    *       where San Francisco meets The Peninsula       *
    *       and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea       *
    *******************************************************

faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) wrote:

>Not in terms of freeways. It is true for highways: names such as the xxx
>turnpike did come before the Federal Highway system. In California, roads such
>as the National Trails highway (later, US66) or Lincoln highway (later Rte 1)

The Lincoln Highway was 50.  

You can still find traces of it parallel to I-80.

-- 

------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton      Postal: POB 281107 SF CA 94128  USA 
jfh@netcom.com     Packet: kd6ttl@w6pw.#nocal.ca.us.na 

Daniel P. Faigin (faigin@aero.org) wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 1994 19:34:28 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:

[snip 8< ]

> Really. OK... where is the northern boundary of the Harbor Freeway: the
> connection with the Santa Monica, or the connection with Rte 101? What is
> the Western boundary of the Santa Ana Freeway: the connection with Rte 110, or
> the 5/101 interchange? Where does the Orange Freeway start: At the Rte 57/10
> interchange, or at the Rte 210/30 interchange? When does the Artestia Fwy turn
> into the Riverside Fwy? Where does the Moreno Valley Fwy start and the Pomona
> Freeway end? Where does Simi Valley Freeway start and the San Fernando Valley
> Freeway end?

The entire length of Rte 118 is called the Simi Valley/San Fernando Valley Freeway;
I should know since I commuted on it most of the entire time I lived both in Northridge
and in Simi Valley and looked at the signs all the time 8-)

Actually the only real way to be sure is to go by the signs.

[snip 8< ]

> Daniel (who lives near the 405/118 interchange, and near the 118/5
> interchange, both of which are still standing, thank you.)

They built them right the first time, I'd guess!

> --
> [W]: The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
> [Email]:faigin@aero.org, faigin@acm.org         [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#68228
> Seen on the net: "I always thought that 'Intel Inside' was a warning required
> by Truth in Advertising laws..." 

--
Anyone that thinks that I | work: charding@turing.raynet.com
might speak for Raynet or | home: woodowl!bernal!charding@lll-winken.llnl.gov
vice versa should seek    |    or chumley!bernal!charding@lll-winken.llnl.gov
professional counselling. | finger charding@raynet.com for PGP public key

On Fri, 15 Apr 1994 14:48:24 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:
> Please clarify a point: what is the difference between the 1944
> interstate system and the very hghly publicized at the time 1956
> interstate highway act that resulted in the red, white and blue
> shields?

I can't give you precise differences; my information is from a CalTrans
history. The 1944 act authorized 40,000 miles; the 1956 act authorized an
additional 1,000 miles.

Daniel
--
[W]: The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aero.org, faigin@acm.org         [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#68228
Seen on the net: "I always thought that 'Intel Inside' was a warning required
by Truth in Advertising laws..." 

In article <FAIGIN.94Apr16084038@solarium.aero.org>,
Daniel P. Faigin <faigin@aero.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Apr 1994 14:48:24 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:
>> Please clarify a point: what is the difference between the 1944
>> interstate system and the very hghly publicized at the time 1956
>> interstate highway act that resulted in the red, white and blue
>> shields?
>
>I can't give you precise differences; my information is from a CalTrans
>history. The 1944 act authorized 40,000 miles; the 1956 act authorized an
>additional 1,000 miles.

Hm. There's got to be more to it than that. All that autobahn type
cosntruction didn't start until after 1956. Except for states that were
already embarked on major road-building programs. After pasage of the
1956 bill, Time or Newsweek commented that most states were going to
have to really gear up, except for California and Ohio, which had
already begun major highway programs.

The old black-and-white shield highways were sometimes referred to as
interstate highways (lower case).

In any case, Ike took considerable pride in the passage of the 1956
bill. Is it possible the 1956 bill contained the appropriation while
the wartime bill was just post-war-ism?

-- 
    ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) **********
    *                Daly City California:                *
    *       where San Francisco meets The Peninsula       *
    *       and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea       *
    *******************************************************

In article <2on072$bud@rome.raynet.com>,
Chuck Harding <charding@brambling> wrote:
>Daniel P. Faigin (faigin@aero.org) wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 1994 19:34:28 GMT, hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) said:
>
>[snip 8< ]
>
>> Really. OK... where is the northern boundary of the Harbor Freeway: the
>> connection with the Santa Monica, or the connection with Rte 101? What is
>> the Western boundary of the Santa Ana Freeway: the connection with Rte 110, or
>> the 5/101 interchange? Where does the Orange Freeway start: At the Rte 57/10
>> interchange, or at the Rte 210/30 interchange? When does the Artestia Fwy turn
>> into the Riverside Fwy? Where does the Moreno Valley Fwy start and the Pomona
>> Freeway end? Where does Simi Valley Freeway start and the San Fernando Valley
>> Freeway end?
>
>The entire length of Rte 118 is called the Simi Valley/San Fernando Valley Freeway;

OK, here's one. As I was finishing up an extended weekend road trip yesterday,
coming down the 101, shortly after entering Ventura County from Santa Barbara
County, I noticed a sign that said, "Begin Ventura Freeway". Maybe a mile
or so later, there was another "End Freeway" sign. Here's the question: what's
the road called for the stretch of the 101 in Ventura County that's _not_
freeway? Ventura Highway, or Expressway, or Freeway, or what? I'm assuming
that the "Begin Ventura Freeway" sign was the end of the Cabrillo Highway/
Freeway/Whatever.

As for some of the questions you asked, the Harbor Freeway turns into the 
Pasadena Freeway at the Hollywood (101) Freeway--- even though between the
Santa Monica and the Hollywood it's only California 110 instead of Interstate
110. 

The 91 is the Redondo Beach Freeway somewhere on the western edge of it, the
Artesia Freeway from there until the interchange with the 5, I believe, and
the Riversiode Freeway from there on.

OK, I haven't been able to figure out what the numbers are for some of the 
freeways along the eastern edge of downtown L.A. There seems to be one thing
that's both the 5 and the 10, a parallel freeway that's the 101 (but possibly
called the Santa Ana Freeway still), and some strange unidentified short
stretch that connects the 101 and the San Bernadino Freeway a little
farther north. This stretch is apparently the western end of the San 
Bernardino, but I have no idea what its number designation is supposed to be.
Perhaps it's the 10.

---------------------
Adam Villani
addam@cco.caltech.edu
"My darling you should sleep well.
Sleep on my lap.
I am your pillow." 
---Musicians of the National Dance Company of Cambodia, "Mohori Bompay"
-- 
Disclaimer: Everything I say conforms exactly to Caltech's official
position on the subject, whatever it may be.

DId anyone mention when you get on the 10 in sMonica its called the CRHIS 
COLUMBUS TRANSCONTENTAL HIGHWAY? gee, looks like a fway to me.
-- 
i need a neighbor that has all the answers like Mr.Wilson on HI.
ezwriter@netcom.com   Finger me for PXC key  i know for a fact the govt 
breaks into my house and ruins my life while i sleep.CyberBikers Rule!

In article <2q7el0$lhj@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
Adam Neil Villani <addam@cco.caltech.edu> wrote:
>The 91 is the Redondo Beach Freeway somewhere on the western edge of it, the
>Artesia Freeway from there until the interchange with the 5, I believe, and
>the Riversiode Freeway from there on.

Changes from Redondo Beach to Artesia at the 710 interchange.

>OK, I haven't been able to figure out what the numbers are for some of the 
>freeways along the eastern edge of downtown L.A. There seems to be one thing
>that's both the 5 and the 10, a parallel freeway that's the 101 (but possibly
>called the Santa Ana Freeway still), and some strange unidentified short
>stretch that connects the 101 and the San Bernadino Freeway a little
>farther north. This stretch is apparently the western end of the San 
>Bernardino, but I have no idea what its number designation is supposed to be.
>Perhaps it's the 10.

The 5/10 common stretch is the southern tip of the Golden State Freeway.
The 101 is indeed the Santa Ana Freeway until the junction with the
end of the San Bernardino Freeway.  The short stretch of San Bernardino
Freeway between the 101 and 5, is technically unnumbered.  The main route
for interstate 10 follows the 5 at that point, so that short stretch
is technically just the "exit" for the 101.

Here's another one.  Anyone know why the short stretch of the 10 in the
Pomona/Ontario area is one of just a few (the only?) sections of freeway in
California to have numbered exit ramps?

--Brendan

On 5 May 1994 05:06:32 GMT, bdunn@cco.caltech.edu (Brendan Dunn) said:
>> There seems to be one thing
>> that's both the 5 and the 10, 

Officially, it's Rte 5.

>>a parallel freeway that's the 101 (but possibly
>> called the Santa Ana Freeway still)

Correct, Rte 101

>> , and some strange unidentified short
>> stretch that connects the 101 and the San Bernadino Freeway a little
>> farther north. 

Officially Rte 10

> Here's another one.  Anyone know why the short stretch of the 10 in the
> Pomona/Ontario area is one of just a few (the only?) sections of freeway in
> California to have numbered exit ramps?

CalTrans did an experiment with exit numbers on Rte 10 about 15 years ago. The
numbers were never removed.

Daniel




--
[W]: The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aero.org, faigin@acm.org         [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#68228
Seen on the net: "I always thought that 'Intel Inside' was a warning required
by Truth in Advertising laws..." 

bdunn@cco.caltech.edu (Brendan Dunn) writes:

>The 101 is indeed the Santa Ana Freeway until the junction with the
>end of the San Bernardino Freeway.  

Actually, the 101 is the Santa Ana Freeway from the 110 Interchange to 
the junction with the 5.

>Here's another one.  Anyone know why the short stretch of the 10 in the
>Pomona/Ontario area is one of just a few (the only?) sections of freeway in
>California to have numbered exit ramps?

Actually, all of the freeways that run through Downtown LA are "numbered" 
for about one to four miles in each direction.  The numbers are printed 
in the Thomas Guide, and some are even posted on some freeway signs (not 
_well_)...  In addition, the 10 has exit ramp numbers assigned on the 
entire stretch of the Freeway in LA county.  Some parts are better signed 
than others.

---
Duncan J. Shaw - donut@crl.com		Public Affairs Director &
15 Mooring Road				Public Relations Director
San Rafael, CA 94901-3514		KSRH 88.1 FM/107.3 Cable FM
(415) 457-8202				College of Marin Radio

In article <2qb2ti$3ok@crl.crl.com>, donut@crl.com (Duncan J. Shaw) writes:
>bdunn@cco.caltech.edu (Brendan Dunn) writes:

>>Here's another one.  Anyone know why the short stretch of the 10 in the
>>Pomona/Ontario area is one of just a few (the only?) sections of freeway in
>>California to have numbered exit ramps?
>
>Actually, all of the freeways that run through Downtown LA are "numbered" 
>for about one to four miles in each direction.  The numbers are printed 
>in the Thomas Guide, and some are even posted on some freeway signs (not 
>_well_)...  In addition, the 10 has exit ramp numbers assigned on the 
>entire stretch of the Freeway in LA county.  Some parts are better signed 
>than others.
>

I've wondered this since I've been out here in CA -- is CA the only state
which does not number its freeway/highway exits (except the stretch 
mentioned above)?  Why?  I find it rather inconvenient, both for 
cross-state road trips and for local clarity.  (There are several
exits off 280 for Stevens Creek Blvd. since the two roads run parallel
for several miles.)


-- 
Carol Cochrane Kankelborg
Amdahl Corp.   csc80@eng.amdahl.com

The above opinions are uniquely mine.

In article <FAIGIN.94May5073720@soldan.aero.org>,
Daniel P. Faigin <faigin@aero.org> wrote:
>On 5 May 1994 05:06:32 GMT, bdunn@cco.caltech.edu (Brendan Dunn) said:
>>> There seems to be one thing
>>> that's both the 5 and the 10, 
>
>Officially, it's Rte 5.
>
>>>a parallel freeway that's the 101 (but possibly
>>> called the Santa Ana Freeway still)
>
>Correct, Rte 101
>
>>> , and some strange unidentified short
>>> stretch that connects the 101 and the San Bernadino Freeway a little
>>> farther north. 
>
>Officially Rte 10

Here's the statutory definitions of Rtes 5, 10 and 101:

CALIFORNIA CODES
STREETS AND HIGHWAYS CODE

305.  Route 5 is from the international boundary near Tijuana
to the Oregon state line via National City, San Diego, Los
Angeles, the westerly side of the San Joaquin Valley,
Sacramento, and Yreka; also passing near Santa Ana, Glendale,
Woodland, and Red Bluff.

310.  Route 10 is from:
   (a) Route 1 in Santa Monica to Route 5 near Seventh Street in
Los Angeles.
   (b) Route 101 near Mission Road in Los Angeles to the Arizona
state line at the Colorado River via the vicinity of Monterey
Park, Pomona, Colton, Indio, and Chiriaco Summit and via Blythe.

401.  Route 101 is from:
   (a) Route 5 near Seventh Street in Los Angeles to Route 1,
Funston approach, and the approach to the Golden Gate Bridge in
the Presidio of San Francisco via Santa Barbara, San Luis
Obispo, and Salinas.
   (b) A point in Marin County opposite San Francisco to the
Oregon state line via Crescent City.

As Faigin points out, Route 10 is broken in downtown LA.

It's rather interesting to note that the Golden Gate Bridge is not part
of Route 101.

-- 
    ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) **********
    *                Daly City California:                *
    *       where San Francisco meets The Peninsula       *
    *       and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea       *
    *******************************************************

In article <1994May5.173631.1662@ccc.amdahl.com>,
Carol C. Kankelborg <csc80@cd.amdahl.com> wrote:

>I've wondered this since I've been out here in CA -- is CA the only state
>which does not number its freeway/highway exits (except the stretch 
>mentioned above)?  Why?  I find it rather inconvenient, both for 
>cross-state road trips and for local clarity.  (There are several
>exits off 280 for Stevens Creek Blvd. since the two roads run parallel
>for several miles.)

It appears to be.  The only states I am unsure of are Alaska (no freeways)
and Hawaii.  Most states mark the exits by mile number (which is great
for quick distance calculations).  A few on the east coast (Maine, New
Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York,
Pennsylvania, Georgia and Florida) number consecutively.  Anyone know
why California doesn't?

--Brendan

In a previous article, bdunn@cco.caltech.edu (Brendan Dunn) says:

>In article <2q7el0$lhj@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
>Adam Neil Villani <addam@cco.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>The 91 is the Redondo Beach Freeway somewhere on the western edge of it, the
>>Artesia Freeway from there until the interchange with the 5, I believe, and
>>the Riversiode Freeway from there on.
>
>Changes from Redondo Beach to Artesia at the 710 interchange.

Isn't it called the Gardena Freeway now, since it never got as far as
Redondo Beach?

-- 
Rick Kitchen                              da825@cleveland.freenet.edu

"Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
--Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"