🚀 go-pugleaf

> My gut feeling is the battery is shafted (if so any recommendations
> where I can buy a replacement without paying APC reseller prices?) but
> I'm not entirely convinced as it behaves as I'd expect a good one to,
> shows normal charging patterns and passes the UPS self-test.  Anyone
> able to shed any light on it?
> 
> 

http://www.psaparts.co.uk

In article <jfq9c01kogmrku8hedjt5hrb4k4e8ea1pj@4ax.com>, 
paul@hopwood.org.uk says...
> 
> I'm running a PC off a APC SmartUPS 420.  It passes self-test and,
> after four hours or so, the PowerChute software reports the battery
> capacity to be at 100% with 6 minutes of runtime remaining.  The load
> looks fine, with one PC fitted with a 400W PSU drawing around 35%-40%
> of capacity, depending on what it's doing at the time.
> 
> However, if I pull the AC supply the UPS and the attached server die
> immediately.  If I run PowerChute after reconnecting power and
> bringing it back up it reports the battery is discharged and only has
> about 20% charge with less than a minute run time.
> 
> My gut feeling is the battery is shafted (if so any recommendations
> where I can buy a replacement without paying APC reseller prices?) but
> I'm not entirely convinced as it behaves as I'd expect a good one to,
> shows normal charging patterns and passes the UPS self-test.  Anyone
> able to shed any light on it?
> 
> 
RS Components, the batteries are probably shafted as you say. I fixed 
mine by getting new batteries for it, and it's been running for the last 
year just fine ;)
-- 
  Alex Threlfall
Cyberprog New Media
 www.cyberprog.net
tel - 0870 446 0789
fax - 0870 446 1789

Check around on batteries carefully, sometimes Alarm people can do
or get the right size at better prices than typical component suppliers.

That was true of the 11Ah size used on SmartUPS1000, may also
be true of the 420 - but yes, your batteries are defective.

That said, if you want to be sure, find an alarm installer and ask if
they can put your batteries on their lead-acid capacity tester. They
are expensive LCD capacity assessors (the units, not the people :-)
-- 
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for fans, books & other items
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/panaflo.htm (Direct)

In message <jfq9c01kogmrku8hedjt5hrb4k4e8ea1pj@4ax.com>, Paul Hopwood 
<paul@hopwood.org.uk> writes
>
>I'm running a PC off a APC SmartUPS 420.  It passes self-test and,
>after four hours or so, the PowerChute software reports the battery
>capacity to be at 100% with 6 minutes of runtime remaining.  The load
>looks fine, with one PC fitted with a 400W PSU drawing around 35%-40%
>of capacity, depending on what it's doing at the time.
>
>However, if I pull the AC supply the UPS and the attached server die
>immediately.  If I run PowerChute after reconnecting power and
>bringing it back up it reports the battery is discharged and only has
>about 20% charge with less than a minute run time.
>
>My gut feeling is the battery is shafted
Go with your gut. RS components, Farnell, CPC or (shudder) Maplin should 
all be able to supply.
To test the battery, you could stick a car headlight bulb across it and 
monitor the battery voltage, I bet it would drop off real quick.
-- 
Clint Sharp

Alex Threlfall <alex@nospam.cyberprog.net> wrote:

>> My gut feeling is the battery is shafted (if so any recommendations
>> where I can buy a replacement without paying APC reseller prices?) but
>> I'm not entirely convinced as it behaves as I'd expect a good one to,
>> shows normal charging patterns and passes the UPS self-test.  Anyone
>> able to shed any light on it?

>RS Components, the batteries are probably shafted as you say. I fixed 
>mine by getting new batteries for it, and it's been running for the last 
>year just fine ;)

Thanks all for the advice.  Four out of four is good enough for me!
;-)

I've got a new battery on order; Yuasa part worked out half the price
of an APC replacement.  Once it's delivered and fitted I'll feedback
if it's fixed the problem.

-- 
>iv< Paul >iv<

> Thanks all for the advice.  Four out of four is good enough for me!
> ;-)
> 
> I've got a new battery on order; Yuasa part worked out half the price
> of an APC replacement.  Once it's delivered and fitted I'll feedback
> if it's fixed the problem.

ive used psa parts for batteries of all sorts - had great success for 
odd type laptop bios battery too - especially the 3 or 4 cell in a 
plastic package type - if they didnt have stock send them the part and 
they used to refurb them, basically remake something identical for a 
small fee - very useful.

Paul Hopwood <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote:

>>> My gut feeling is the battery is shafted (if so any recommendations
>>> where I can buy a replacement without paying APC reseller prices?) but
>>> I'm not entirely convinced as it behaves as I'd expect a good one to,
>>> shows normal charging patterns and passes the UPS self-test.  Anyone
>>> able to shed any light on it?

>I've got a new battery on order; Yuasa part worked out half the price
>of an APC replacement.  Once it's delivered and fitted I'll feedback
>if it's fixed the problem.

Battery arrived today, was fitted and appears to have fixed the
problem.  Thanks to everyone who offered advice.

-- 
>iv< Paul >iv<

Paul Hopwood wrote:
> Paul Hopwood <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote:
> 
>>>> My gut feeling is the battery is shafted (if so any recommendations
>>>> where I can buy a replacement without paying APC reseller prices?)
<...> 
>> I've got a new battery on order; Yuasa part worked out half the price
>> of an APC replacement.
> 
> Battery arrived today, was fitted and appears to have fixed the
> problem.  Thanks to everyone who offered advice.

It would be worth checking the terminal voltage under charging 
conditions to make sure that the death of its predecessor wasn't 
down to over-charging. 13.8V is often quoted as suitable for
sealed lead-acid batteries.

-- 
Graham W   http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE   http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK  Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

"Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote:

>>> I've got a new battery on order; Yuasa part worked out half the price
>>> of an APC replacement.
 
>> Battery arrived today, was fitted and appears to have fixed the
>> problem.  Thanks to everyone who offered advice.

>It would be worth checking the terminal voltage under charging 
>conditions to make sure that the death of its predecessor wasn't 
>down to over-charging. 13.8V is often quoted as suitable for
>sealed lead-acid batteries.

According to the PowerChute software the UPS itself reports the
voltage at 13.85V.  Any reason I should mistrust it?

The UPS was manufactured in 1999 and, to the best of my knowledge, was
still on the original battery so probably just died of old age.  :)

-- 
>iv< Paul >iv<

"Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4bfkc0tp79ta5cir8nvtjas5hejp6961md@4ax.com...
> "Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote:
>
> >>> I've got a new battery on order; Yuasa part worked out half the
price
> >>> of an APC replacement.
>
> >> Battery arrived today, was fitted and appears to have fixed the
> >> problem.  Thanks to everyone who offered advice.
>
> >It would be worth checking the terminal voltage under charging
> >conditions to make sure that the death of its predecessor wasn't
> >down to over-charging. 13.8V is often quoted as suitable for
> >sealed lead-acid batteries.
>
> According to the PowerChute software the UPS itself reports the
> voltage at 13.85V.

That's fine.

> Any reason I should mistrust it?

No.

> The UPS was manufactured in 1999 and, to the best of my knowledge, was
> still on the original battery so probably just died of old age.  :)

If on the other hand, the voltage was 14.2V there would be a suspicion
of batterycide (is that a word?   8�), which would shortly be followed
the demise of the new replacement.


--
Graham W   http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page update, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE   http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK  Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

Graham W wrote:
> "Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:4bfkc0tp79ta5cir8nvtjas5hejp6961md@4ax.com...
>> "Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote:
>>> It would be worth checking the terminal voltage under charging
>>> conditions to make sure that the death of its predecessor wasn't
>>> down to over-charging. 13.8V is often quoted as suitable for
>>> sealed lead-acid batteries.
>>
>> According to the PowerChute software the UPS itself reports the
>> voltage at 13.85V.
> If on the other hand, the voltage was 14.2V there would be a suspicion
> of batterycide (is that a word?   8�), which would shortly be followed
> the demise of the new replacement.

I'm not sure about this, provided the maximum current isn't succeeded then I
don't think there is a problem, for instance I've often revived sealed lead
acid batteries by putting the voltage up (with a variable supply) until it
starts drawing current then reduced it as it rises to about a tenth of its
rated current. This can revive dead batteries. Sometimes I have to wack the
voltage up to 20 volts or more, before the current increases. I think
overheating (which is fatal) is caused by too great a current (when
charging).



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04

JRS:  In article <4bfkc0tp79ta5cir8nvtjas5hejp6961md@4ax.com>, seen in
news:demon.tech.pc, Paul Hopwood <paul@hopwood.org.uk> posted at Sat, 12
Jun 2004 00:19:45 :
>"Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote:

>>It would be worth checking the terminal voltage under charging 
>>conditions to make sure that the death of its predecessor wasn't 
>>down to over-charging. 13.8V is often quoted as suitable for
>>sealed lead-acid batteries.
>
>According to the PowerChute software the UPS itself reports the
>voltage at 13.85V.  Any reason I should mistrust it?

Yes.

You should mistrust any stated measurement that has no stated
uncertainty; and, while I don't doubt the truth of what Graham actually
posted, one needs to be given a range of suitability.  It is not safe to
presume, just because 13.8 was written, that X is satisfactory if and
only if 13.75 <= X < 13.85 - although that may be the case.
 
-- 
 � John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk / ??.Stockton@physics.org �
 Web  <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
 Correct <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line precisely "-- " (SoRFC1036)
 Do not Mail News to me.    Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SoRFC1036)

jasee wrote:
> Graham W wrote:
>> "Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4bfkc0tp79ta5cir8nvtjas5hejp6961md@4ax.com...
>>> "Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote:
>>>> It would be worth checking the terminal voltage under charging
>>>> conditions to make sure that the death of its predecessor wasn't
>>>> down to over-charging. 13.8V is often quoted as suitable for
>>>> sealed lead-acid batteries.
>>>
>>> According to the PowerChute software the UPS itself reports the
>>> voltage at 13.85V.
>> If on the other hand, the voltage was 14.2V there would be a
>> suspicion
>> of batterycide (is that a word?   8�), which would shortly be
>> followed the demise of the new replacement.
>
> I'm not sure about this, provided the maximum current isn't succeeded
> then I don't think there is a problem, for instance I've often
> revived sealed lead acid batteries by putting the voltage up (with a
> variable supply) until it starts drawing current then reduced it as
> it rises to about a tenth of its rated current. This can revive dead
> batteries. Sometimes I have to wack the voltage up to 20 volts or
> more, before the current increases. I think overheating (which is
> fatal) is caused by too great a current (when charging).

You are not following the discussion!  If you take a new battery and
impose 14.2V across it (because of a faulty control unit), it will draw
a lot of current and drive off the electrolyte.

What we are not discussing is abusing *OLD* useless batteries
to try and recover some useful service from them.


--
Graham W   http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE   http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK  Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.