🚀 go-pugleaf

You must note that there is not a peep about all the
people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
by so many many other European and other countries
on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
not a complaint about all these Europeans !

This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
made for the election year in the US. The climate of
anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
with active participation by hateful journalists for a
long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
time as American workers were losing jobs due to
layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.

High technology cannot be restricted to one category
of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
(labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
away all high technology. A  return to
pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.


Your Friend wrote:

> http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
>
> L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
>
> February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
>
> Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> States' L-1 visa regulations.
>
> "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> a statement.
>
> A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> requirements of the visa laws.
>
> "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
>
> The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
>
> Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> could file an application.
>
> "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> Nilekani said.
>
> Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> statement said.
>
> Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> House International Relations
>
> Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> manpower to take over American jobs.

You  are missing the point.  The L-1, nor the H-1 programs were not designed
with "bodyshopping" in mind.   These visas were designed as "first party"
programs.  Infosys, Wipro, and TCS are "gaming the system."   Infosys,
Wipro, and TCS need to hire locals if they want to sell "on site" service in
the U.S.   This arrangement would not preclude "offshoring" work to India.

"supreme4007" <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:40228F8F.8184A099@peoplepc.com...
>
>
> You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> by so many many other European and other countries
> on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> not a complaint about all these Europeans !
>
> This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
>
> High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> (labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> away all high technology. A  return to
> pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
>
>
> Your Friend wrote:
>
> > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> >
> > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> >
> > February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> >
> > Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > States' L-1 visa regulations.
> >
> > "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > a statement.
> >
> > A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > requirements of the visa laws.
> >
> > "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> >
> > The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> >
> > Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > could file an application.
> >
> > "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > Nilekani said.
> >
> > Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > statement said.
> >
> > Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > House International Relations
> >
> > Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > manpower to take over American jobs.
>
>
>

What the are you talking about? Europeans offshoring for years and
years? Oh! wait a minute, I think you might be just a little bit out
of touch here.

supreme4007 <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in message news:<40228F8F.8184A099@peoplepc.com>...
> You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> by so many many other European and other countries
> on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> 
> This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> 
> High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> (labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> away all high technology. A  return to
> pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> 
> 
> Your Friend wrote:
> 
> > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> >
> > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> >
> > February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> >
> > Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > States' L-1 visa regulations.
> >
> > "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > a statement.
> >
> > A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > requirements of the visa laws.
> >
> > "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> >
> > The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> >
> > Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > could file an application.
> >
> > "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > Nilekani said.
> >
> > Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > statement said.
> >
> > Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > House International Relations
> >
> > Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > manpower to take over American jobs.

supreme4007 <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in message news:<40228F8F.8184A099@peoplepc.com>...
> You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> by so many many other European and other countries
> on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> 
That is because:- 
(a) Europe has a small population that cannot suck in a lot of jobs,
(b) the cost savings in offshoring work to EU is not much -better
parity between currencies
(c) They have their own industry which employs americans too
[quid-pro-quo]
(d) Some (not all) of it is racial as you claim
 
> This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> with active participation by hateful journalists for a

The raking of issues is usually done by politicians during an election
yr.
But the raking here is done by people who have genuinely lost jobs
[either because of the recession or because an Indian bodyshop offers
them cheaper manpower or an offshore co offers still cheaper
services].

> long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> 

The monopoly of americans on hi-tech work has been more or less
broken,
and there will be very few jobs that need to be done in a first world
country.
If there are such jobs, they will have to be done in the US  because
of infrastructure or political issues but not because of
unavailability of skilled manpower. So, americans need to think of
other things besides skill improvement to compete for jobs
effectively.

[snip]
> 
> 
> Your Friend wrote:
> 
> > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> >
> > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> >
> > February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> >
> > Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > States' L-1 visa regulations.
> >
They have not been abusing the law -from a lawyer's perspective.

> > "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > a statement.
> >

Infosys  business model is to execute projects not supply manpower.
L-1 to execute overseas projects may or may not require working on
customer premises, but supplying manpower does. Besides, Infosys is a
Nasdaq listed company and some of its employees are *rich* by american
standards.

> > A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > requirements of the visa laws.
> >
> > "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> >

Wipro does supply manpower to its customers in the US -but not sure if
those employees are on L-1. Both Infosys and Wipro have applied for
lots of H1s for their employees without work after oct 1, 2003 -in
anticipation of a shortage of visas later on.

> > The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> >
TCS does have a sub-standard payscale.

> > Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > could file an application.
> >
> > "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > Nilekani said.
> >
True. Their employees don't jump because of the options.

> > Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > statement said.
> >
> > Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > House International Relations
> >
> > Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > manpower to take over American jobs.

So what is stopping the govt from putting a floor on salary of L-1
visa holders?

regards
-kamal

'Sparky' and 'black sheep of da family' should read Kamal's response first.

As far as Europeans go, entire companies are based in both Europe and US.
In fact, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, other Pacific Island nations, China and India
have come in only after the blue-bloods who are placed above all these low
level Asian people (if some people have their way, they will drop A-bombs
all over there and destroy everyone and their people who are taking away
their jobs and supposedly 'causing' the problems here in the US !). I do not
think the Euroopean countries are as trigger-happy as this, though. They
are playing  a supporting role in the 'trigger-happy' activities going on these
days.


black sheep of da family wrote:

> What the are you talking about? Europeans offshoring for years and
> years? Oh! wait a minute, I think you might be just a little bit out
> of touch here.
>
> supreme4007 <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in message news:<40228F8F.8184A099@peoplepc.com>...
> > You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> > people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> > by so many many other European and other countries
> > on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> > that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> > Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> > not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> >
> > This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> > made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> > anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> > with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> > long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> > of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> > time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> > layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> >
> > High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> > of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> > journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> > (labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> > away all high technology. A  return to
> > pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> > is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> > is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> > It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> >
> >
> > Your Friend wrote:
> >
> > > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> > >
> > > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> > >
> > > February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> > >
> > > Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > > Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > > States' L-1 visa regulations.
> > >
> > > "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > > and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > > differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > > mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > > a statement.
> > >
> > > A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > > regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > > requirements of the visa laws.
> > >
> > > "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > > visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> > >
> > > The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > > allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > > acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > > L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> > >
> > > Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > > specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > > could file an application.
> > >
> > > "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > > which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > > Nilekani said.
> > >
> > > Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > > countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > > understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > > statement said.
> > >
> > > Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > > Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > > House International Relations
> > >
> > > Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > > and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > > manpower to take over American jobs.

There big difference being that European companies hire locals to work in
the U.S., which is not true for Wipro, Infosys, and TCS.   The bulk of their
U.S.-based workforces are from India.   Many of these people avoid paying
U.S. income taxes by receiving a large portion of their compensation as per
diem; hence, they get the benefits of our tax-payer-funded infrastructure
without its associated financial burden.


"news2020" <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:40238E93.4850B892@peoplepc.com...
> 'Sparky' and 'black sheep of da family' should read Kamal's response
first.
>
> As far as Europeans go, entire companies are based in both Europe and US.
> In fact, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, other Pacific Island nations, China and
India
> have come in only after the blue-bloods who are placed above all these low
> level Asian people (if some people have their way, they will drop A-bombs
> all over there and destroy everyone and their people who are taking away
> their jobs and supposedly 'causing' the problems here in the US !). I do
not
> think the Euroopean countries are as trigger-happy as this, though. They
> are playing  a supporting role in the 'trigger-happy' activities going on
these
> days.
>
>

So now we're actually discussing this as a result of this spammer?  Let's at
least have some self respect and start a new thread - in a single newsgroup,
thanks much.

-- 
Dane Jasper				Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:dane@sonic.net			http://www.sonic.net/

Key fingerprint =  A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9  CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53 

yf@ziplip.com (Your Friend) wrote in message news:<be064478.0402050835.5f0f83f5@posting.google.com>...
> http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> 
> L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge

In case you missed the actual hearing testimony, the most shocking
part was Sona Shah's description how her company used a slang term for
diarrhea to describe using Indian workers.

supreme4007 wrote:
> 
> You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> by so many many other European and other countries
> on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> 
> This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> 
> High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> (labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> away all high technology. A  return to
> pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> 
> Your Friend wrote:
> 
> > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> >
> > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> >
> > February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> >
> > Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > States' L-1 visa regulations.
> >
> > "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > a statement.
> >
> > A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > requirements of the visa laws.
> >
> > "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> >
> > The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> >
> > Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > could file an application.
> >
> > "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > Nilekani said.
> >
> > Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > statement said.
> >
> > Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > House International Relations
> >
> > Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > manpower to take over American jobs.



 See a bigger picture. One of friends works as an editor in a major
paper. He told me that almost all their computer people are Indians.
When I asked him what happened to make it so. He told me when they
replaced a MIS manager with an Indian. Within two years the Indian found
excuses for removing the American computer people with others from
India. He made a big fuss about the lack of education and qualifications
the american programming staff had and how he could only rescue IT
operations with new replacements. Where from? India. And now nothing
works as well. He told me that the Indians are even rude when you tell
them they didn't fix the computer problems. They have the bad habit of
talking down to non-techies and act like the technical problems are on
par to finding the Unified Field Theory. He told me there isn't a day
when something doesn't go wrong with computer operations. And there
hasn't been a day when the new staff of techies were able to fix a
problem in less than 4 hours. When I asked him why they don't fire the
new MIS manager and his jerky staff, he said like this, "can't the big
boss is Jewish. Guess who brought him in? They eat lunch together and
discuss the Muslim problem all the time. Did you think the Indians were
let in this country so quickly by their own resources? Don't be so
naive."

How do you compare that with shell companies with no local employees ?
Or service sector jobs which do not contribute to high technology significantly.

Or totally outsourced technology and jobs as in Europe and
Taiwan/Japan/China/Korea, etc.


Sparky wrote:

> There big difference being that European companies hire locals to work in
> the U.S., which is not true for Wipro, Infosys, and TCS.   The bulk of their
> U.S.-based workforces are from India.   Many of these people avoid paying
> U.S. income taxes by receiving a large portion of their compensation as per
> diem; hence, they get the benefits of our tax-payer-funded infrastructure
> without its associated financial burden.
>
> "news2020" <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> news:40238E93.4850B892@peoplepc.com...
> > 'Sparky' and 'black sheep of da family' should read Kamal's response
> first.
> >
> > As far as Europeans go, entire companies are based in both Europe and US.
> > In fact, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, other Pacific Island nations, China and
> India
> > have come in only after the blue-bloods who are placed above all these low
> > level Asian people (if some people have their way, they will drop A-bombs
> > all over there and destroy everyone and their people who are taking away
> > their jobs and supposedly 'causing' the problems here in the US !). I do
> not
> > think the Euroopean countries are as trigger-happy as this, though. They
> > are playing  a supporting role in the 'trigger-happy' activities going on
> these
> > days.
> >
> >

Electrocution conscience - severe injuries/burns over a long long period of time
- several Africans/Viet/Chinese/White, etc.etc. rotating (sonic - #42/ 1035
McKay /Los Esteros Apts.)


dane wrote:

> So now we're actually discussing this as a result of this spammer?  Let's at
> least have some self respect and start a new thread - in a single newsgroup,
> thanks much.
>
> --
> Dane Jasper                             Sonic.net, Inc.
> (707)522-1000
> mailto:dane@sonic.net                   http://www.sonic.net/
>
> Key fingerprint =  A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9  CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53

This is turning into cooked up hate messaging.
I do not think any company would fire US workers unless something was
badly wrong. Such as, all that is happening around these days -
sabotage, destroying things, viruses, etc. Subtle ways of bringing
down a company. If something like this happens even once,
the result is obvious. Money is not a real issue in such matters.
They will pay for good work any day. After all it is your own
mom and pop who are making the decisions about your jobs
because they are running the companies. And they know full well
what the people are doing.


billgbl wrote:

> supreme4007 wrote:
> >
> > You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> > people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> > by so many many other European and other countries
> > on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> > that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> > Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> > not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> >
> > This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> > made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> > anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> > with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> > long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> > of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> > time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> > layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> >
> > High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> > of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> > journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> > (labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> > away all high technology. A  return to
> > pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> > is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> > is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> > It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> >
> > Your Friend wrote:
> >
> > > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> > >
> > > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> > >
> > > February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> > >
> > > Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > > Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > > States' L-1 visa regulations.
> > >
> > > "Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > > and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > > differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > > mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > > a statement.
> > >
> > > A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > > regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > > requirements of the visa laws.
> > >
> > > "We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > > visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> > >
> > > The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > > allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > > acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > > L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> > >
> > > Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > > specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > > could file an application.
> > >
> > > "Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > > which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > > Nilekani said.
> > >
> > > Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > > countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > > understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > > statement said.
> > >
> > > Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > > Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > > House International Relations
> > >
> > > Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > > and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > > manpower to take over American jobs.
>
>  See a bigger picture. One of friends works as an editor in a major
> paper. He told me that almost all their computer people are Indians.
> When I asked him what happened to make it so. He told me when they
> replaced a MIS manager with an Indian. Within two years the Indian found
> excuses for removing the American computer people with others from
> India. He made a big fuss about the lack of education and qualifications
> the american programming staff had and how he could only rescue IT
> operations with new replacements. Where from? India. And now nothing
> works as well. He told me that the Indians are even rude when you tell
> them they didn't fix the computer problems. They have the bad habit of
> talking down to non-techies and act like the technical problems are on
> par to finding the Unified Field Theory. He told me there isn't a day
> when something doesn't go wrong with computer operations. And there
> hasn't been a day when the new staff of techies were able to fix a
> problem in less than 4 hours. When I asked him why they don't fire the
> new MIS manager and his jerky staff, he said like this, "can't the big
> boss is Jewish. Guess who brought him in? They eat lunch together and
> discuss the Muslim problem all the time. Did you think the Indians were
> let in this country so quickly by their own resources? Don't be so
> naive."

Is Sona Shah of India-n origins or some secret type who has assumed an India-n name ?

I do not see why a person of India-n origins would tell lies or make India-ns look bad
with dirty jokes unless there is some monetary or other coercion (job depends on it ,etc.)


Templeton Peck wrote:

> yf@ziplip.com (Your Friend) wrote in message news:<be064478.0402050835.5f0f83f5@posting.google.com>...
> > http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> >
> > L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
>
> In case you missed the actual hearing testimony, the most shocking
> part was Sona Shah's description how her company used a slang term for
> diarrhea to describe using Indian workers.

news2020 <user121@peoplepc.com> wrote in
news:40249610.99B6E2F7@peoplepc.com: 

> Is Sona Shah of India-n origins or some secret type who has assumed an
> India-n name ? 
> 
> I do not see why a person of India-n origins would tell lies or make
> India-ns look bad with dirty jokes unless there is some monetary or
> other coercion (job depends on it ,etc.) 

According to the testimony, she was born in India. 

I have seen the documents she refers to.

I smell some racist overtones there too.

I do know that SOME Indians do tend to hire other Indians.  Seen it 
myself when a new manager comes around.  And I have actually walked out 
of interviews because it was so awfully obvious I was wasting my time. 
Knowing what I know of my previous Indian co-workers, they were 
interested in getting their friends a job.

I don't think it is racism as much as it is "a friend of a friend of a 
friend" can get you a job.  Hey - they have 3,000 people showing up at a 
wedding, you know they are socially networked.  Abu can get a lot of 
favor "capital" from his social network by getting Ajib a job.  And when 
Abu needs a job, Ajib and his friends are looking for him too.

I am white, and I have been hired by an Indian (Sri Lank'an actually.) 
So one cannot say that they all are racist.

So I have life experience on both sides of the story.

Jobs these days are a matter of who-you-know (and the ability to work 
low wage.)

news2020 wrote:

> This is turning into cooked up hate messaging.
> I do not think any company would fire US workers unless something was
> badly wrong. Such as, all that is happening around these days -
> sabotage, destroying things, viruses, etc. Subtle ways of bringing
> down a company. If something like this happens even once,
> the result is obvious. Money is not a real issue in such matters.
> They will pay for good work any day. After all it is your own
> mom and pop who are making the decisions about your jobs
> because they are running the companies. And they know full well
> what the people are doing.
> 
> 
> billgbl wrote:
> 
> 
>>supreme4007 wrote:
>>
>>>You must note that there is not a peep about all the
>>>people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
>>>by so many many other European and other countries
>>>on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
>>>that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
>>>Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
>>>not a complaint about all these Europeans !
>>>
>>>This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
>>>made for the election year in the US. The climate of
>>>anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
>>>with active participation by hateful journalists for a
>>>long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
>>>of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
>>>time as American workers were losing jobs due to
>>>layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
>>>
>>>High technology cannot be restricted to one category
>>>of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
>>>journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
>>>(labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
>>>away all high technology. A  return to
>>>pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
>>>is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
>>>is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
>>>It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
>>>
>>>Your Friend wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
>>>>
>>>>L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
>>>>
>>>>February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
>>>>
>>>>Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
>>>>Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
>>>>States' L-1 visa regulations.
>>>>
>>>>"Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
>>>>and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
>>>>differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
>>>>mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
>>>>a statement.
>>>>
>>>>A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
>>>>regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
>>>>requirements of the visa laws.
>>>>
>>>>"We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
>>>>visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
>>>>
>>>>The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
>>>>allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
>>>>acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
>>>>L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
>>>>
>>>>Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
>>>>specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
>>>>could file an application.
>>>>
>>>>"Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
>>>>which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
>>>>Nilekani said.
>>>>
>>>>Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
>>>>countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
>>>>understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
>>>>statement said.
>>>>
>>>>Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
>>>>Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
>>>>House International Relations
>>>>
>>>>Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
>>>>and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
>>>>manpower to take over American jobs.
>>
>> See a bigger picture. One of friends works as an editor in a major
>>paper. He told me that almost all their computer people are Indians.
>>When I asked him what happened to make it so. He told me when they
>>replaced a MIS manager with an Indian. Within two years the Indian found
>>excuses for removing the American computer people with others from
>>India. He made a big fuss about the lack of education and qualifications
>>the american programming staff had and how he could only rescue IT
>>operations with new replacements. Where from? India. And now nothing
>>works as well. He told me that the Indians are even rude when you tell
>>them they didn't fix the computer problems. They have the bad habit of
>>talking down to non-techies and act like the technical problems are on
>>par to finding the Unified Field Theory. He told me there isn't a day
>>when something doesn't go wrong with computer operations. And there
>>hasn't been a day when the new staff of techies were able to fix a
>>problem in less than 4 hours. When I asked him why they don't fire the
>>new MIS manager and his jerky staff, he said like this, "can't the big
>>boss is Jewish. Guess who brought him in? They eat lunch together and
>>discuss the Muslim problem all the time. Did you think the Indians were
>>let in this country so quickly by their own resources? Don't be so
>>naive."
> 
> 
> 
> 

How many real bad ones have you met ?
I mean just like KKK ?

Jeff Davis wrote:

> "Scott Auge" <scott_auge@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4026E54C.3020900@yahoo.com...
> > I smell some racist overtones there too.
> >
> > I do know that SOME Indians do tend to hire other Indians.  Seen it
> > myself when a new manager comes around.  And I have actually walked out
> > of interviews because it was so awfully obvious I was wasting my time.
> > Knowing what I know of my previous Indian co-workers, they were
> > interested in getting their friends a job.
> >
> > I don't think it is racism as much as it is "a friend of a friend of a
> > friend" can get you a job.  Hey - they have 3,000 people showing up at a
>
> The Indians are racists.  I've seen them purchase a frachise one week and
> fire the current employees, and then next week bring in all Indians.
> I've seen many franchises staffed with all Indians. This is not a
> coincidence.
> This is discrimination.
> They are not unlike the KKK.
>
> > wedding, you know they are socially networked.  Abu can get a lot of
> > favor "capital" from his social network by getting Ajib a job.  And when
> > Abu needs a job, Ajib and his friends are looking for him too.
> >
> > I am white, and I have been hired by an Indian (Sri Lank'an actually.)
> > So one cannot say that they all are racist.
> >
> > So I have life experience on both sides of the story.
> >
> > Jobs these days are a matter of who-you-know (and the ability to work
> > low wage.)
> >
> > news2020 wrote:
> >
> > > This is turning into cooked up hate messaging.
> > > I do not think any company would fire US workers unless something was
> > > badly wrong. Such as, all that is happening around these days -
> > > sabotage, destroying things, viruses, etc. Subtle ways of bringing
> > > down a company. If something like this happens even once,
> > > the result is obvious. Money is not a real issue in such matters.
> > > They will pay for good work any day. After all it is your own
> > > mom and pop who are making the decisions about your jobs
> > > because they are running the companies. And they know full well
> > > what the people are doing.
> > >
> > >
> > > billgbl wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>supreme4007 wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> > >>>people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> > >>>by so many many other European and other countries
> > >>>on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> > >>>that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> > >>>Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> > >>>not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> > >>>
> > >>>This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> > >>>made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> > >>>anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
>
> Americans hate racists.
>
> > >>>with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> > >>>long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> > >>>of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> > >>>time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> > >>>layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> > >>>
> > >>>High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> > >>>of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> > >>>journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> > >>>(labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> > >>>away all high technology. A  return to
> > >>>pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> > >>>is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> > >>>is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> > >>>It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> > >>>
> > >>>Your Friend wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> > >>>>
> > >>>>L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> > >>>>
> > >>>>February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > >>>>Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > >>>>States' L-1 visa regulations.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > >>>>and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > >>>>differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > >>>>mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > >>>>a statement.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > >>>>regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > >>>>requirements of the visa laws.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > >>>>visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > >>>>allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > >>>>acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > >>>>L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > >>>>specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > >>>>could file an application.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > >>>>which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > >>>>Nilekani said.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > >>>>countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > >>>>understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > >>>>statement said.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > >>>>Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > >>>>House International Relations
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > >>>>and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > >>>>manpower to take over American jobs.
> > >>
> > >> See a bigger picture. One of friends works as an editor in a major
> > >>paper. He told me that almost all their computer people are Indians.
> > >>When I asked him what happened to make it so. He told me when they
> > >>replaced a MIS manager with an Indian. Within two years the Indian found
> > >>excuses for removing the American computer people with others from
> > >>India. He made a big fuss about the lack of education and qualifications
> > >>the american programming staff had and how he could only rescue IT
> > >>operations with new replacements. Where from? India. And now nothing
> > >>works as well. He told me that the Indians are even rude when you tell
> > >>them they didn't fix the computer problems. They have the bad habit of
> > >>talking down to non-techies and act like the technical problems are on
> > >>par to finding the Unified Field Theory. He told me there isn't a day
> > >>when something doesn't go wrong with computer operations. And there
> > >>hasn't been a day when the new staff of techies were able to fix a
> > >>problem in less than 4 hours. When I asked him why they don't fire the
> > >>new MIS manager and his jerky staff, he said like this, "can't the big
> > >>boss is Jewish. Guess who brought him in? They eat lunch together and
> > >>discuss the Muslim problem all the time. Did you think the Indians were
> > >>let in this country so quickly by their own resources? Don't be so
> > >>naive."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

"Scott Auge" <scott_auge@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4026E54C.3020900@yahoo.com...
> I smell some racist overtones there too.
>
> I do know that SOME Indians do tend to hire other Indians.  Seen it
> myself when a new manager comes around.  And I have actually walked out
> of interviews because it was so awfully obvious I was wasting my time.
> Knowing what I know of my previous Indian co-workers, they were
> interested in getting their friends a job.
>
> I don't think it is racism as much as it is "a friend of a friend of a
> friend" can get you a job.  Hey - they have 3,000 people showing up at a

The Indians are racists.  I've seen them purchase a frachise one week and
fire the current employees, and then next week bring in all Indians.
I've seen many franchises staffed with all Indians. This is not a
coincidence.
This is discrimination.
They are not unlike the KKK.




> wedding, you know they are socially networked.  Abu can get a lot of
> favor "capital" from his social network by getting Ajib a job.  And when
> Abu needs a job, Ajib and his friends are looking for him too.
>
> I am white, and I have been hired by an Indian (Sri Lank'an actually.)
> So one cannot say that they all are racist.
>
> So I have life experience on both sides of the story.
>
> Jobs these days are a matter of who-you-know (and the ability to work
> low wage.)
>
> news2020 wrote:
>
> > This is turning into cooked up hate messaging.
> > I do not think any company would fire US workers unless something was
> > badly wrong. Such as, all that is happening around these days -
> > sabotage, destroying things, viruses, etc. Subtle ways of bringing
> > down a company. If something like this happens even once,
> > the result is obvious. Money is not a real issue in such matters.
> > They will pay for good work any day. After all it is your own
> > mom and pop who are making the decisions about your jobs
> > because they are running the companies. And they know full well
> > what the people are doing.
> >
> >
> > billgbl wrote:
> >
> >
> >>supreme4007 wrote:
> >>
> >>>You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> >>>people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> >>>by so many many other European and other countries
> >>>on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> >>>that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> >>>Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> >>>not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> >>>
> >>>This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> >>>made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> >>>anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building


Americans hate racists.



> >>>with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> >>>long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> >>>of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> >>>time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> >>>layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> >>>
> >>>High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> >>>of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> >>>journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> >>>(labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> >>>away all high technology. A  return to
> >>>pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> >>>is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> >>>is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> >>>It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> >>>
> >>>Your Friend wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> >>>>
> >>>>February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> >>>>
> >>>>Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> >>>>Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> >>>>States' L-1 visa regulations.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> >>>>and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> >>>>differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> >>>>mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> >>>>a statement.
> >>>>
> >>>>A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> >>>>regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> >>>>requirements of the visa laws.
> >>>>
> >>>>"We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> >>>>visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> >>>>
> >>>>The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> >>>>allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> >>>>acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> >>>>L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> >>>>
> >>>>Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> >>>>specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> >>>>could file an application.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> >>>>which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> >>>>Nilekani said.
> >>>>
> >>>>Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> >>>>countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> >>>>understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> >>>>statement said.
> >>>>
> >>>>Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> >>>>Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> >>>>House International Relations
> >>>>
> >>>>Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> >>>>and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> >>>>manpower to take over American jobs.
> >>
> >> See a bigger picture. One of friends works as an editor in a major
> >>paper. He told me that almost all their computer people are Indians.
> >>When I asked him what happened to make it so. He told me when they
> >>replaced a MIS manager with an Indian. Within two years the Indian found
> >>excuses for removing the American computer people with others from
> >>India. He made a big fuss about the lack of education and qualifications
> >>the american programming staff had and how he could only rescue IT
> >>operations with new replacements. Where from? India. And now nothing
> >>works as well. He told me that the Indians are even rude when you tell
> >>them they didn't fix the computer problems. They have the bad habit of
> >>talking down to non-techies and act like the technical problems are on
> >>par to finding the Unified Field Theory. He told me there isn't a day
> >>when something doesn't go wrong with computer operations. And there
> >>hasn't been a day when the new staff of techies were able to fix a
> >>problem in less than 4 hours. When I asked him why they don't fire the
> >>new MIS manager and his jerky staff, he said like this, "can't the big
> >>boss is Jewish. Guess who brought him in? They eat lunch together and
> >>discuss the Muslim problem all the time. Did you think the Indians were
> >>let in this country so quickly by their own resources? Don't be so
> >>naive."
> >
> >
> >
> >

Repeat after me, Indians are not racists, they are just beimg
opportunists (3 times)

Indians do this not because they are racists, they do this because
there is tremendous cost savings involved when they hire other
Indians. No social security, FICA, no insurance, half the wages, and
they don't have to report the income because it is paid in cash.

The reason the Indian software (shell companies, body shops, or
umbrella companies) hire Indians only is because, the Indians are
looking for H1b's, they make $5 to $10/hour off the employee, just
because they are getting them an H1b. In turn, the shell company also
provides a cover for all the lies written on their H1b clients
resumes. "There are no jobs in the US for which Indans are not
qualified, thanks to Indian body shops". It's a win-win for the H1-b,
and the body shop. The H1b + Body Shop combination is a very very
effective and deadly technique...

-- blacky


"Jeff Davis" <luzer15@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3rydnZSv2KCKeLvdRVn-gg@comcast.com>...
> "Scott Auge" <scott_auge@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4026E54C.3020900@yahoo.com...
> > I smell some racist overtones there too.
> >
> > I do know that SOME Indians do tend to hire other Indians.  Seen it
> > myself when a new manager comes around.  And I have actually walked out
> > of interviews because it was so awfully obvious I was wasting my time.
> > Knowing what I know of my previous Indian co-workers, they were
> > interested in getting their friends a job.
> >
> > I don't think it is racism as much as it is "a friend of a friend of a
> > friend" can get you a job.  Hey - they have 3,000 people showing up at a
> 
> The Indians are racists.  I've seen them purchase a frachise one week and
> fire the current employees, and then next week bring in all Indians.
> I've seen many franchises staffed with all Indians. This is not a
> coincidence.
> This is discrimination.
> They are not unlike the KKK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > wedding, you know they are socially networked.  Abu can get a lot of
> > favor "capital" from his social network by getting Ajib a job.  And when
> > Abu needs a job, Ajib and his friends are looking for him too.
> >
> > I am white, and I have been hired by an Indian (Sri Lank'an actually.)
> > So one cannot say that they all are racist.
> >
> > So I have life experience on both sides of the story.
> >
> > Jobs these days are a matter of who-you-know (and the ability to work
> > low wage.)
> >
> > news2020 wrote:
> >
> > > This is turning into cooked up hate messaging.
> > > I do not think any company would fire US workers unless something was
> > > badly wrong. Such as, all that is happening around these days -
> > > sabotage, destroying things, viruses, etc. Subtle ways of bringing
> > > down a company. If something like this happens even once,
> > > the result is obvious. Money is not a real issue in such matters.
> > > They will pay for good work any day. After all it is your own
> > > mom and pop who are making the decisions about your jobs
> > > because they are running the companies. And they know full well
> > > what the people are doing.
> > >
> > >
> > > billgbl wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>supreme4007 wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>You must note that there is not a peep about all the
> > >>>people being shuttled now as well as for years and years
> > >>>by so many many other European and other countries
> > >>>on all kinds of jobs and visas, etc. It is only recently
> > >>>that India even got involved in any offshoring activites.
> > >>>Others have been doing it for years and years. Yet,
> > >>>not a complaint about all these Europeans !
> > >>>
> > >>>This is political  baiting of India and India-ns, especially
> > >>>made for the election year in the US. The climate of
> > >>>anti-India and anti-Indian hatred has been building
> 
> 
> Americans hate racists.
> 
> 
> 
> > >>>with active participation by hateful journalists for a
> > >>>long long period of time. Ever since they saw a lot
> > >>>of India-ns involved in high technology at the same
> > >>>time as American workers were losing jobs due to
> > >>>layoffs and the vicious climate of high technology.
> > >>>
> > >>>High technology cannot be restricted to one category
> > >>>of people or another. Therefore, these prejudiced
> > >>>journalists and any rabble-rousing demagogue leaders
> > >>>(labor leaders, etc.) will eventually end up driving
> > >>>away all high technology. A  return to
> > >>>pre-World:War I USA (like third world)
> > >>>is quite a possibility if this trend continues. That
> > >>>is precisely why the confusion of war prevails now.
> > >>>It helps to mask the underlying turmoil.
> > >>>
> > >>>Your Friend wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/05us1.htm
> > >>>>
> > >>>>L1 visa: Infosys, Wipro deny US charge
> > >>>>
> > >>>>February 05, 2004 20:40 IST
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Infosys and Wipro, the country's two leading software companies, on
> > >>>>Thursday denied the allegation that they have been abusing the United
> > >>>>States' L-1 visa regulations.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"Infosys fully complies with visa statutes and regulations in letter
> > >>>>and in spirit. Infosys adheres to this regulation and does not
> > >>>>differentiate between H1-B and L-1 pay scales, although not legally
> > >>>>mandated," Infosys CEO and managing director Nandan M Nilekani said in
> > >>>>a statement.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>A Wipro spokeswoman said the question of abusing any type of visa
> > >>>>regulation did not arise and the company complied with the
> > >>>>requirements of the visa laws.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"We believe that we are in total compliance with the requirements of
> > >>>>visa laws. The question of their abuse does not arise," he told PTI.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The two companies were responding to the US labour organisations'
> > >>>>allegation that Indian firms, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS, had been
> > >>>>acting as "bodyshops", sending Indian workers to the US through the
> > >>>>L-1 system and then subcontracting them out to other businesses.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Infosys said L-1 visa regulations stipulated that only employees with
> > >>>>specialised knowledge or holding managerial or executive positions
> > >>>>could file an application.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>"Most of our employees stay in the US for the duration of the project,
> > >>>>which is typically one to two years, and return to the home country,"
> > >>>>Nilekani said.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Infosys continues to work with governments and consulates of the
> > >>>>countries in which it operates in order to ensure that it fully
> > >>>>understands and correctly interprets the immigration regulations, the
> > >>>>statement said.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Michael W Gildea, executive director of the Department of Professional
> > >>>>Employees, AFL-CIO, US's largest labour federation, addressing the
> > >>>>House International Relations
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Committee on Wednesday, accused Indian IT firms such as TCS, Infosys
> > >>>>and Wipro of "abusing" the L-1 visa programme to bring in cheap
> > >>>>manpower to take over American jobs.
> > >>
> > >> See a bigger picture. One of friends works as an editor in a major
> > >>paper. He told me that almost all their computer people are Indians.
> > >>When I asked him what happened to make it so. He told me when they
> > >>replaced a MIS manager with an Indian. Within two years the Indian found
> > >>excuses for removing the American computer people with others from
> > >>India. He made a big fuss about the lack of education and qualifications
> > >>the american programming staff had and how he could only rescue IT
> > >>operations with new replacements. Where from? India. And now nothing
> > >>works as well. He told me that the Indians are even rude when you tell
> > >>them they didn't fix the computer problems. They have the bad habit of
> > >>talking down to non-techies and act like the technical problems are on
> > >>par to finding the Unified Field Theory. He told me there isn't a day
> > >>when something doesn't go wrong with computer operations. And there
> > >>hasn't been a day when the new staff of techies were able to fix a
> > >>problem in less than 4 hours. When I asked him why they don't fire the
> > >>new MIS manager and his jerky staff, he said like this, "can't the big
> > >>boss is Jewish. Guess who brought him in? They eat lunch together and
> > >>discuss the Muslim problem all the time. Did you think the Indians were
> > >>let in this country so quickly by their own resources? Don't be so
> > >>naive."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >