🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <ZbVke.390$BR4.178@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
 pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.

7.5?...dunno if 8 would run.

In article <ZbVke.390$BR4.178@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
 pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> 

See <www.apple.com> 

Check Support for best OS for the Plus

then check

Downloads all the older OS software is there.

Gerry

You may find this interesting.


http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2000/12/20001212133143.shtml

Cheers,
Bill


On 25/5/05 4:47 PM, in article ZbVke.390$BR4.178@news-server.bigpond.net.au,
"pedro" <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> 
> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.
> 

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.

6.0.7 or 7.1 runs nice on this one.

-- 
Morten Dreier
http://morten.dreier.no/

In article <ZbVke.390$BR4.178@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
 pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.

Depends on the amount of memory and what you'd like to do with it. 
System 7 brings a lot of additional functionality and support for more 
complex software, but has a hard requirement of 2MB and a practical 
requirement of 4MB. And is much slower than the previous versions of the 
OS on that machine. If you don't have a full RAM complement or don't 
need the features 7 brought, 6.0.8 is much faster and leaves more memory 
for actual programs.

G

-- 
Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.

Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> wrote:

> In article <ZbVke.390$BR4.178@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>  pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
> > What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.
> 
> Depends on the amount of memory and what you'd like to do with it. 
> System 7 brings a lot of additional functionality and support for more
> complex software, but has a hard requirement of 2MB and a practical 
> requirement of 4MB. And is much slower than the previous versions of the
> OS on that machine. If you don't have a full RAM complement or don't 
> need the features 7 brought, 6.0.8 is much faster and leaves more memory
> for actual programs.

As an old Mac Plus user (gee, I loved that box!), I support Greg here.
All the System 6 variants (6.0 through 6.0.7 or .8), as well as the
early 7's, will work. If you opt for System 7, you'll need at least 2MB
of memory, preferably 2.5 or 4 (which is max).

7.0 isn't too stable though, but 7.0.1 was OK, AFAIR, and there was a
patch to it that showed up as a bullet, like this: 7.0.1•. With that, it
was OK. 7.1 is also good, and had a simliar patch, I think, which you
ought to install for added stability (7.1•). 

I don't remember whether you can use anything higher than 7.1, and I
wouldn't anyway. 7.5/7.6 represent a huge memory bloat over 7.1, and
nothing much in the way of gains on a 68000-based b/white machine. 

System 8 doesn't work on the Plus, I'm pretty sure.
-- 
/Z
Remove NOT..INVALID to email

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> writes:
>
> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.

It will boot anything up to 7.5.5.  If you use system 7.x, make sure
you have the memory maxed out (a Plus goes up to 4M).

I personally recommend 6.0.8, however.  7.5.5 is much slower on that old
hardware.

This assumes, of course, that you have a hard drive.  If you're booting
from floppies, then stick with system 6.  System 7 will boot from
floppies, but it's painful to actually do anything with such a system.

As for where to get it, look here:

        http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html

You can download disk images for system 6.0.8 (4 800K disk images).
You'll need a Mac with an 800K-compatible floppy drive in order to make
diskettes from the images.  (A Plus doesn't support 1.44M floppy drives)

You can also download the installer for system 7.5.3 (a 19-part disk
image) and the 7.5.5 updater from there.  You will need a Mac with a
hard drive (possibly your Plus) in order to use the installer.

Have fun.

-- David

NOT.diskworld@mac.com.INVALID (Zaphod B) writes:
> 
> As an old Mac Plus user (gee, I loved that box!), I support Greg here.
> All the System 6 variants (6.0 through 6.0.7 or .8), as well as the
> early 7's, will work. If you opt for System 7, you'll need at least
> 2MB of memory, preferably 2.5 or 4 (which is max).

For that matter, if you don't need multitasking, I recommend not using
Multifinder on system 6.  This way, every app can use all your memory,
at the expense of not having any multitasking ability.

I've found that this isn't a bad tradeoff, since the Plus is really too
slow to do much multitasking anyway.

> I don't remember whether you can use anything higher than 7.1, and I
> wouldn't anyway. 7.5/7.6 represent a huge memory bloat over 7.1, and
> nothing much in the way of gains on a 68000-based b/white machine.

It will go up to 7.5.5.  (7.6 requires 8M of memory).

> System 8 doesn't work on the Plus, I'm pretty sure.

System 8 and 8.1 require at least 12M of memory and a PMMU.  Which
effectively means a minimum of a 68030 processor.

8.5 and up requires a PowerPC - it's not compatible with any 68K Macs.

-- David

In article <nobody-CF0F73.22305925052005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
 John Rethorst <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:

> In article <m2zmuid3mg.fsf@qqqq.invalid>, shamino@techie.com (David C.) wrote:
> 
> > I personally recommend 6.0.8, however.  7.5.5 is much slower on that old
> > hardware.
> 
> 6.0.8 is the OS to use for the Plus.

Unquestionably.

pedro wrote:
> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> rgds,
>
> Pete
> -----
> http://pedro.spyw.com
> The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
> 'When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane'

This link may also help.
Cheers
Michael

http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/syslist.html

Reginald Dwight <regdwight@verizon.net> wrote:

> In article <nobody-CF0F73.22305925052005@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
>  John Rethorst <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
> 
> > In article <m2zmuid3mg.fsf@qqqq.invalid>, shamino@techie.com (David C.)
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > I personally recommend 6.0.8, however.  7.5.5 is much slower on that
> > > old hardware.
> > 
> > 6.0.8 is the OS to use for the Plus.
> 
> Unquestionably.

7.0.1/7.1 was also OK, but slower, & requires more memory. The upside is
reasonabble multitasking - IF you need it.
-- 
/Z
Remove NOT..INVALID to email

pedro wrote:
 

>
> What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it, 
> thanks.
>
>
 
Thanks to all who replied, for your helpful advise. It seems that system 
6.0.8 is the best one to use, all things considered. I downloaded it 
from the link, and made 4 x 800k floppies in my G3, but the Mac would 
not boot from them, except the last one Utilities. It just spits the 
others out. But if I boot from 'Utilities' I can still load and read 
them. So I don't know what I have done wrong. The hard drive is in a box 
and connected to the SCSI port. The Mac used to boot from it, but just 
stopped for some reason. But sometimes I could get it to boot by 
switching it on and off a few times. I don't know what system was (still 
is) on it, but if I use a System 3.2 floppy disk, which is the only 
other one I have, the Mac will boot happily, and the hard disk icon 
comes onto the desktop, and I can read all the files. I re-named the 
system folder on the hard drive, and then dragged the system folder off 
the 6.0.8 'Utilities' floppy onto the hard drive, but the Mac still wont 
boot from the hard drive, although I know this system is good since I 
can boot from the floppy. If I try to run progs from the hard drive, 
after booting with the Sys 3.2 floppy, the Mac crashes. I put the hard 
drive onto my G3 to check it, but Drive Setup says it's an unsupported 
disk, so I can't even mount it to check it with disk repair. So that's 
where it's at at present. :(

The hardware is:

MacPlus with 4mb (I think) RAM and internal 800k drive

SCSI hard drive connected to the SCSI port

external 800k drive


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Mental backup in progress - Do Not Disturb!'

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> The hardware is:
> 
> MacPlus with 4mb (I think) RAM and internal 800k drive

Select Apple m enu --> About this Macintosh (could be named About Finder
or some other wording, normally the topmost item), and you'll _know_.
:-)

> SCSI hard drive connected to the SCSI port

To me it could sound like this one is having a problm since you say it
stopped working, and sometimes works again after switching on and off
again. Don't like the sound of that...

> external 800k drive

Did you try the floppies in both drives?

One other thing: 
You say you made copies in your G3's floppy drive. I'm just shooting in
the dark here: When - if ever - did Mac floppy drives stop making true
HFS 800 K disks? Did they ever? Was there ever a G3 model that only made
DOS-style 720K disks? If so, that could explain parts of this - maybe.
As I said - wild guess.
-- 
/Z
Remove NOT..INVALID to email

I always liked Sys 3.2 - very stable.  Why aren't you happy with it?

David

pedro wrote:

> pedro wrote:
>
>
> >
> > What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it,
> > thanks.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks to all who replied, for your helpful advise. It seems that system
> 6.0.8 is the best one to use, all things considered. I downloaded it
> from the link, and made 4 x 800k floppies in my G3, but the Mac would
> not boot from them, except the last one Utilities. It just spits the
> others out. But if I boot from 'Utilities' I can still load and read
> them. So I don't know what I have done wrong. The hard drive is in a box
> and connected to the SCSI port. The Mac used to boot from it, but just
> stopped for some reason. But sometimes I could get it to boot by
> switching it on and off a few times. I don't know what system was (still
> is) on it, but if I use a System 3.2 floppy disk, which is the only
> other one I have, the Mac will boot happily, and the hard disk icon
> comes onto the desktop, and I can read all the files. I re-named the
> system folder on the hard drive, and then dragged the system folder off
> the 6.0.8 'Utilities' floppy onto the hard drive, but the Mac still wont
> boot from the hard drive, although I know this system is good since I
> can boot from the floppy. If I try to run progs from the hard drive,
> after booting with the Sys 3.2 floppy, the Mac crashes. I put the hard
> drive onto my G3 to check it, but Drive Setup says it's an unsupported
> disk, so I can't even mount it to check it with disk repair. So that's
> where it's at at present. :(
>
> The hardware is:
>
> MacPlus with 4mb (I think) RAM and internal 800k drive
>
> SCSI hard drive connected to the SCSI port
>
> external 800k drive
>
> --
>
> rgds,
>
> Pete
> -----
> http://pedro.spyw.com
> The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
> 'Mental backup in progress - Do Not Disturb!'

In article 
<42965E16.1BE1FF1D@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com>,
 quietguy <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:

> I always liked Sys 3.2 - very stable.  Why aren't you happy with it?

ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!! I still have nightmares about that one! It was my 
first computer EVER and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong 
that made it shut down every few minutes. [shutters]

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> pedro wrote:
>  
> 
> >
> > What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it,
> > thanks.
> >
> >
>  
> Thanks to all who replied, for your helpful advise. It seems that system
> 6.0.8 is the best one to use, all things considered. 

For further info on old mac models, types of RAM, disk, OS, etc.,
download the program at
http://mactracker.ca/ 
Great! Runs on Mac OS 8-9, OS X, Win (!) and iPod (!!).
-- 
/Z
Remove NOT..INVALID to email

quietguy wrote:  
 

>I always liked Sys 3.2 - very stable.  Why aren't you happy with it?
>  
>
 
I want to be able to boot from the hard drive, so I might as well put 
the best system for the MacPlus on it, which would appear to be 6.0.8, 
but at present it wont boot from the HD regardless of what system I put 
on it. I presume I can install a system by just dragging the system 
folder from a floppy?
 

>David
>
>pedro wrote:
>
>  
>
>>pedro wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it,
>>>thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Thanks to all who replied, for your helpful advise. It seems that system
>>6.0.8 is the best one to use, all things considered. I downloaded it
>>from the link, and made 4 x 800k floppies in my G3, but the Mac would
>>not boot from them, except the last one Utilities. It just spits the
>>others out. But if I boot from 'Utilities' I can still load and read
>>them. So I don't know what I have done wrong. The hard drive is in a box
>>and connected to the SCSI port. The Mac used to boot from it, but just
>>stopped for some reason. But sometimes I could get it to boot by
>>switching it on and off a few times. I don't know what system was (still
>>is) on it, but if I use a System 3.2 floppy disk, which is the only
>>other one I have, the Mac will boot happily, and the hard disk icon
>>comes onto the desktop, and I can read all the files. I re-named the
>>system folder on the hard drive, and then dragged the system folder off
>>the 6.0.8 'Utilities' floppy onto the hard drive, but the Mac still wont
>>boot from the hard drive, although I know this system is good since I
>>can boot from the floppy. If I try to run progs from the hard drive,
>>after booting with the Sys 3.2 floppy, the Mac crashes. I put the hard
>>drive onto my G3 to check it, but Drive Setup says it's an unsupported
>>disk, so I can't even mount it to check it with disk repair. So that's
>>where it's at at present. :(
>>
>>The hardware is:
>>
>>MacPlus with 4mb (I think) RAM and internal 800k drive
>>
>>SCSI hard drive connected to the SCSI port
>>
>>external 800k drive
>>    
>>


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic'

Zaphod B wrote:
 

>pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The hardware is:
>>
>>MacPlus with 4mb (I think) RAM and internal 800k drive
>>    
>>
>
>Select Apple m enu --> About this Macintosh (could be named About Finder
>or some other wording, normally the topmost item), and you'll _know_.
>  
>

Yep, 4 mb! :)
 

>:-)
>
>  
>
>>SCSI hard drive connected to the SCSI port
>>    
>>
>
>To me it could sound like this one is having a problm since you say it
>stopped working, and sometimes works again after switching on and off
>again. Don't like the sound of that...
>  
>
 
 :(
 

>>external 800k drive
>>    
>>
>
>Did you try the floppies in both drives?
>  
>

I did now. Same thing- only the utilities disk will work as a system disk.
 

>One other thing: 
>You say you made copies in your G3's floppy drive. I'm just shooting in
>the dark here: When - if ever - did Mac floppy drives stop making true
>HFS 800 K disks? Did they ever? Was there ever a G3 model that only made
>DOS-style 720K disks? If so, that could explain parts of this - maybe.
>As I said - wild guess.
>  
>

I'm not following this bit.


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Get a Life? Cool! Where can I download it from?'

John Rethorst wrote:
 

>In article <FTkle.2034$BR4.401@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>> The hard drive is in a box 
>>and connected to the SCSI port. The Mac used to boot from it, but just 
>>stopped for some reason. But sometimes I could get it to boot by 
>>switching it on and off a few times. I don't know what system was (still 
>>is) on it, but if I use a System 3.2 floppy disk, which is the only 
>>other one I have, the Mac will boot happily, and the hard disk icon 
>>comes onto the desktop, and I can read all the files. I re-named the 
>>system folder on the hard drive, and then dragged the system folder off 
>>the 6.0.8 'Utilities' floppy onto the hard drive, but the Mac still wont 
>>boot from the hard drive,
>>    
>>
>
>To boot a Plus from a hard drive, turn the HD on first. After 10 seconds, turn 
>the Mac on.
>  
>

Tried that.
 

>Have you booted from the floppy and formatted the HD? The HD could be corrupt, 
>since you can neither boot from it nor run programs from it.
>  
>

I can't format the hd, since it has all the programs on it. I used to be 
able to run the progs on it when it booted.


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Error detected: Operator failure'

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> quietguy wrote:  
>  
> > I always liked Sys 3.2 - very stable.  Why aren't you happy with it?
>  
> I want to be able to boot from the hard drive, so I might as well put
> the best system for the MacPlus on it, which would appear to be 6.0.8,
> but at present it wont boot from the HD regardless of what system I put
> on it. I presume I can install a system by just dragging the system 
> folder from a floppy?

You have to "bless" it - the Sytem Folder. The folder then displays a
Mac ikon. Otherwise it has a generic ikon(Pogue&Schorr, Mac and PowerMac
Secrets 2. ed, page 933).

And on a pre-system 7 installation you shouldn't have more than one
System Folder on the same disk (Pogue&Schorr, page189). And the Startup
Disk control panel - if you are trying to use that - doesn't work on a
Mac Plus. It's PRAM memory isn't big enough (Pogue&Schorr, page 192).

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> quietguy wrote:  
>  
> > I always liked Sys 3.2 - very stable.  Why aren't you happy with it?
>  
> I want to be able to boot from the hard drive, so I might as well put
> the best system for the MacPlus on it, which would appear to be 6.0.8,
> but at present it wont boot from the HD regardless of what system I put
> on it. I presume I can install a system by just dragging the system 
> folder from a floppy?

You have to "bless" it - the Sytem Folder. The folder then displays a
Mac ikon. Otherwise it has a generic ikon(Pogue&Schorr, Mac and PowerMac
Secrets 3. ed, page 933).

And on a pre-system 7 installation you shouldn't have more than one
System Folder on the same disk (Pogue&Schorr, page189). And the Startup
Disk control panel - if you are trying to use that - doesn't work on a
Mac Plus. It's PRAM memory isn't big enough (Pogue&Schorr, page 192).

make sure you have the OS in the first 8GB partition. If you dont have that
then repartition the disk and move all of the apps to another partition and
reformat.


in article SHGle.3409$BR4.2701@news-server.bigpond.net.au, pedro at
pedro@nowhere.com wrote on 28/5/05 1:06 AM:

> John Rethorst wrote:
> 
> 
>> In article <FTkle.2034$BR4.401@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>> pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> The hard drive is in a box
>>> and connected to the SCSI port. The Mac used to boot from it, but just
>>> stopped for some reason. But sometimes I could get it to boot by
>>> switching it on and off a few times. I don't know what system was (still
>>> is) on it, but if I use a System 3.2 floppy disk, which is the only
>>> other one I have, the Mac will boot happily, and the hard disk icon
>>> comes onto the desktop, and I can read all the files. I re-named the
>>> system folder on the hard drive, and then dragged the system folder off
>>> the 6.0.8 'Utilities' floppy onto the hard drive, but the Mac still wont
>>> boot from the hard drive,
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> To boot a Plus from a hard drive, turn the HD on first. After 10 seconds,
>> turn 
>> the Mac on.
>> 
>> 
> 
> Tried that.
> 
> 
>> Have you booted from the floppy and formatted the HD? The HD could be
>> corrupt, 
>> since you can neither boot from it nor run programs from it.
>> 
>> 
> 
> I can't format the hd, since it has all the programs on it. I used to be
> able to run the progs on it when it booted.
> 

John Rethorst wrote:
 

>In article <SHGle.3409$BR4.2701@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I can't format the hd, since it has all the programs on it. I used to be 
>>able to run the progs on it when it booted.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Copy the hd's contents somewhere else, and format the hd. This is good practice 
>every year or so anyway (some will say more often), and IMO a necessary part of 
>bringing your old computer back into a useful state.
>
>  
>
 
Yes, that is a conclusion I have reached also. Now I just need to work 
on the 'somewhere else' bit.  :)
 
And that's one of the big advantages of having a Mac of course- the 
ability to drag programs around and still have them work!
 

-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'No matter how fast your PC is,
Microsoft will find some way to slow it down'

pedro wrote:
 

> John Rethorst wrote:
>
>
>> In article <SHGle.3409$BR4.2701@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>> pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I can't format the hd, since it has all the programs on it. I used 
>>> to be able to run the progs on it when it booted.
>>>  
>>
>>
>> Copy the hd's contents somewhere else, and format the hd. This is 
>> good practice every year or so anyway (some will say more often), and 
>> IMO a necessary part of bringing your old computer back into a useful 
>> state.
>>
>
> Yes, that is a conclusion I have reached also. Now I just need to work 
> on the 'somewhere else' bit.  :)
>
> And that's one of the big advantages of having a Mac of course- the 
> ability to drag programs around and still have them work!
>
>

Problem solved! It was not as horrendous as I had imagined. It was 
defective media- the 800 k disks. (Why didn't anyone think of that??)  
But I did, and made new disks, booted from the main disk and ran the 
installer prog to install sys 6.0.8 on the HD, and the Mac now boots 
happily from it! Whew! So the original system on the HD (whatever it 
was) must have been corrupted somehow. The Mac seems to run faster too. 
But two more questions.. what prog and version should I use to check the 
hd for faults and errors? and.. can I format new 1.44 mb floppies to 
800k format, to avoid using my old 800k disks and risk having this 
problem again? Thanks, (sorry for my ignorance on these matters)

 

-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Torch: a case for holding dead batteries.'

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:

> can I format new 1.44 mb floppies to 
> 800k format, to avoid using my old 800k disks and risk having this 
> problem again?

People used to tape shut the hole that tells the drive that a HD disk is
a "2MB" disk, and it normally works OK, but YMMV. I wouldn't trust it
for important data.
-- 
/Z
Remove NOT..INVALID to email

In article <1gxa5ea.9zn41610p1lcgN%NOT.diskworld@mac.com.INVALID>,
 NOT.diskworld@mac.com.INVALID (Zaphod B) wrote:

> pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
> > can I format new 1.44 mb floppies to 
> > 800k format, to avoid using my old 800k disks and risk having this 
> > problem again?
> 
> People used to tape shut the hole that tells the drive that a HD disk is
> a "2MB" disk, and it normally works OK, but YMMV. I wouldn't trust it
> for important data.

The Mac Plus can't recognize 1.44 MB floppies as such; they will be 
treated as 800 KB.

-- 
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint =  5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 
                   7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

One of the older versions of Nortons would do the trick - I might be able
to help if needed.

Why not just try to format one of those floppies?  Nothing ventured,
nothing gained

David

pedro wrote:

>  what prog and version should I use to check the
> hd for faults and errors? and.. can I format new 1.44 mb floppies to
> 800k format, to avoid using my old 800k disks and risk having this
> problem again? Thanks, (sorry for my ignorance on these matters)
>
>
>
> --
>
> rgds,
>
> Pete
> -----
> http://pedro.spyw.com
> The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
> 'Torch: a case for holding dead batteries.'

quietguy <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:

> 
> Why not just try to format one of those floppies [as 1.44 MB]? 
> Nothing ventured, nothing gained

It used to be said that while this was and is indeed possible, it was
less reliable. Whether that's true, I don't know - but that is what 'the
experts' used to say - way back when, when it was an issue.
-- 
/Z
Remove NOT..INVALID to email

Zaphod B wrote:
 

>quietguy <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Why not just try to format one of those floppies [as 1.44 MB]? 
>>Nothing ventured, nothing gained
>>    
>>
>
>It used to be said that while this was and is indeed possible, it was
>less reliable. Whether that's true, I don't know - but that is what 'the
>experts' used to say - way back when, when it was an issue.
>  
>

I tried to format a 1.44 mb in the MacPlus as 800k. It starts the 
initialization, but then gives the message 'initialization failed'.

But here's some info I found about floppies, that deals with the issues:

http://chrislawson.net/writing/macdaniel/2k0329.shtml


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
~ all outgoing email virus scanned ~
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'"Why would I be happy? I'm married with children" - Al Bundy'

quietguy wrote:
 

>One of the older versions of Nortons would do the trick - I might be able
>to help if needed.
>  
>

Hi David. I tried the earliest version I could find of Disk Aid, but it 
wouldn't run. But now things have gone from bad to worse. I cliked on a 
program, and the hard drive stated making lots of weird noises, and 
wouldn't stop, and with the wristwatch constantly on the screen. So I 
re-booted, but the HD wouldn't boot. So I think it's faulty somehow, so 
I may have lost all my progs. But everything was fine till this 
happened. :( 
 

>Why not just try to format one of those floppies?  Nothing ventured,
>nothing gained
>  
>
 
Tried. It didn't work.  :(
 
Also.. I discovered that the new set of floppies that I made for the sys 
6.0.8 install would not boot the Mac either, whereas they did at first. 
But *surely* I couldn't have had another lot of bad disks?? So I got to 
thinking that maybe the install prog marks the disks after it installs 
the system so they can't be used again. So to test this theory, I remade 
them using the same floppies, and sure enough they worked. Which means 
then that the disks I used originally weren't 'bad' at all.
 

>David
>
>pedro wrote:
>
>  
>
>> what prog and version should I use to check the
>>hd for faults and errors? and.. can I format new 1.44 mb floppies to
>>800k format, to avoid using my old 800k disks and risk having this
>>problem again? Thanks, (sorry for my ignorance on these matters)
>>
>>
>>    
>>


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Hi, my name is Any Key. Please don't hit me! '

In article <JnYle.4377$BR4.2785@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
 pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
> hd for faults and errors? and.. can I format new 1.44 mb floppies to 
> 800k format, to avoid using my old 800k disks and risk having this 
> problem again? Thanks, (sorry for my ignorance on these matters)

I have a vague recollection that the 1.44MB floppies use a different magnetic 
material to the lower capacity ones. Drives that know about 1.44MB floppies 
*might* be able to use them at 800KB, but drives that only know about 800KB 
diskettes would have problems.

David

Pedro - if you live in Oz I could send you a couple of 800k floppies

David

pedro wrote:

> Zaphod B wrote:
>
>
> >quietguy <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Why not just try to format one of those floppies [as 1.44 MB]?
> >>Nothing ventured, nothing gained
> >>
> >>
> >
> >It used to be said that while this was and is indeed possible, it was
> >less reliable. Whether that's true, I don't know - but that is what 'the
> >experts' used to say - way back when, when it was an issue.
> >
> >
>
> I tried to format a 1.44 mb in the MacPlus as 800k. It starts the
> initialization, but then gives the message 'initialization failed'.
>
> But here's some info I found about floppies, that deals with the issues:
>
> http://chrislawson.net/writing/macdaniel/2k0329.shtml
>
> --
>
> rgds,
>
> Pete
> -----
> http://pedro.spyw.com
> ~ all outgoing email virus scanned ~
> The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
> '"Why would I be happy? I'm married with children" - Al Bundy'

quietguy wrote:
 

>Pedro - if you live in Oz I could send you a couple of 800k floppies
>  
>
 
I've got plenty. Thanks.
 

>David
>
>pedro wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Zaphod B wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>quietguy <quietguy@REMOVE-TO-REPLYconfidential-counselling.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Why not just try to format one of those floppies [as 1.44 MB]?
>>>>Nothing ventured, nothing gained
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>It used to be said that while this was and is indeed possible, it was
>>>less reliable. Whether that's true, I don't know - but that is what 'the
>>>experts' used to say - way back when, when it was an issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I tried to format a 1.44 mb in the MacPlus as 800k. It starts the
>>initialization, but then gives the message 'initialization failed'.
>>
>>But here's some info I found about floppies, that deals with the issues:
>>
>>http://chrislawson.net/writing/macdaniel/2k0329.shtml
>>
>>    
>>


-- 

rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
The time here is- http://tinyurl.com/6sfgd
'Multitasking: Screwing up several things at the same time'

NOT.diskworld@mac.com.INVALID (Zaphod B) writes:
> 
> One other thing: 
> You say you made copies in your G3's floppy drive. I'm just shooting in
> the dark here: When - if ever - did Mac floppy drives stop making true
> HFS 800 K disks? Did they ever? Was there ever a G3 model that only made
> DOS-style 720K disks? If so, that could explain parts of this - maybe.
> As I said - wild guess.

Apple's internal floppy drives never stopped supporting the 800K format.
A beige G3 should be able to make the disks from the images.

Apple dropped support for 800K when they stopped shipping floppy drives
altogether (starting from the iMac.)

-- David

Tom Stiller <tomstiller@comcast.net> writes:
> 
> The Mac Plus can't recognize 1.44 MB floppies as such; they will be 
> treated as 800 KB.

Yes, but if you don't tape over the hole, Macs with 1.44M drives will
try to read them as 1.44M, get errors, and ask you to reformat them.

-- David

pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> writes:
> 
> Hi David. I tried the earliest version I could find of Disk Aid, but
> it wouldn't run. But now things have gone from bad to worse. I cliked
> on a program, and the hard drive stated making lots of weird noises,
> and wouldn't stop, and with the wristwatch constantly on the
> screen. So I re-booted, but the HD wouldn't boot. So I think it's
> faulty somehow, so I may have lost all my progs. But everything was
> fine till this happened. :(

Ugh.  This means one of two things.

If you're lucky, the drive needs a low-level format (yes, I know, it's
not really "low-level", but it still does more than erase the file
system.)  I think the Apple Disk Utility (should be on one of your 6.0.8
floppies) can do this if you have an Apple-brand hard drive.

If you have a third-party drive, you'll need a third-party utility.  I
have old versions of LaCie's SilverLining, APS PowerTools (which is
CharisMac's Anubis), and FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit.  All can do this.
The problem is that I don't think the current version of any of these
will run on your Plus, so you may have to go searching for an old
version from somewhere.

If a low-level format doesn't work, then you're looking at a new
drive.  You should be able to put any narrow (that is 50-pin) SCSI
drive inside the case your current drive is in.  Unfortunately, SCSI
drives are expensive.  Fortunately, you really don't need a very big
one.  You may be able to find a 1G or 2G drive for really cheap.

If you replace the drive, remember that the HFS file system doesn't
support partitions larger than 2G, and its very inefficient when the
partitions get bigger than 1G.  Don't waste your money on something
really large or you'll find your desktop covered in nothing but drive
icons.

>  Also.. I discovered that the new set of floppies that I made for the
>  sys 6.0.8 install would not boot the Mac either, whereas they did at
>  first. But *surely* I couldn't have had another lot of bad disks?? So
>  I got to thinking that maybe the install prog marks the disks after
>  it installs the system so they can't be used again. So to test this
>  theory, I remade them using the same floppies, and sure enough they
>  worked. Which means then that the disks I used originally weren't
>  'bad' at all.

Try cleaning the heads of your floppy drives.  You should be able to
get a cleaning kit at your local Radio Shack, and possibly at other
computer stores.

Mac floppy drives are pretty reliable, but dust and dirt does tend to
build up on the heads after several years of operation.

-- David

David Morrison <davidmor@excite.com> writes:
> 
> I have a vague recollection that the 1.44MB floppies use a different
> magnetic material to the lower capacity ones.

True.  1.44M media has a higher coercivity.  Meaning it requires a
stronger field to write the data.  An 800K drive could have problems
with one.

> Drives that know about 1.44MB floppies *might* be able to use them at
> 800KB, but drives that only know about 800KB diskettes would have
> problems.

This is the theory.

In actual practice, I've taped over plenty of 1.44M disks (since
getting DSDD media is difficult these days) and have yet to have a
problem in my IIgs's 800K floppy drives.

-- David

hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) writes:
> 
> You have to "bless" it - the Sytem Folder. The folder then displays a
> Mac ikon. Otherwise it has a generic ikon(Pogue&Schorr, Mac and
> PowerMac Secrets 3. ed, page 933).

The act of dragging the files "System" and "Finder" to the same folder
should cause the system to bless that folder without any additional
work.  Of course, you'll need a few other files in there for the system
to actually boot.

> And on a pre-system 7 installation you shouldn't have more than one
> System Folder on the same disk (Pogue&Schorr, page189).

Yes.  Otherwise, there's no way of knowing which will be blessed.

You can, however, work around the problem.  On my SE, I've got both
6.0.8 and 7.5.5 on the drive.  To allow dual-booting, I created a
"disabled" folder in each system folder.  When I want to switch
systems, I drag the "System" file into the disabled folder (which
un-blesses the system folder) and then drag the other OS's "System"
file out of its disabled folder (which blesses that system folder) and
restart.

Works without a hitch.

> And the Startup Disk control panel - if you are trying to use that -
> doesn't work on a Mac Plus. It's PRAM memory isn't big enough
> (Pogue&Schorr, page 192).

More to the point, the boot ROM doesn't use PRAM to find the system.
It has a hard-coded search order.  First it searches the floppies, then
(I think) any hard drive attached to the external floppy port, then the
SCSI bus, starting from ID 6 and moving down to ID 0.  The first device
it finds with a blessed system folder gets booted.  (This is why you
can boot a CD - the internal hard drive is normally ID 0, and external
CD-ROM drives are typically ID 3 or 6.)

-- David

Be aware that if you put an unlocked System 6.x disk (the same 
apparently applies to pre-6 Systems also) to a mac running System 8 or 
greater, this "unblesses" the System 6.x disk making it unbootable. You 
can rebless it by booting to System 6.x or 7.x and opening & closing the 
unblessed System Folder - the blessed System Folder should now have the 
System icon on it. ...so have at least two _locked_ bootable System 
disks or .image files in a safe place!

See also:

68000-mac-faq at <http://www.sjoki.uta.fi/~shmhav/68000.txt>

and <http://www.sjoki.uta.fi/~shmhav/mac-internet-faq.txt>

-- 
Matti Haveri <mattiDOThaveriATsjokiDOTutaeiroskaaDOTfi> remove ei roskaa

Zaphod B wrote:
> pedro <pedro@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>pedro wrote:
>> 
>>
>>
>>>What's the best system to use on a MacPlus and where could I get it,
>>>thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 
>>Thanks to all who replied, for your helpful advise. It seems that system
>>6.0.8 is the best one to use, all things considered. 
> 
> 
> For further info on old mac models, types of RAM, disk, OS, etc.,
> download the program at
> http://mactracker.ca/ 
> Great! Runs on Mac OS 8-9, OS X, Win (!) and iPod (!!).
What a wonderful thread! Imagine if I asked what's the best system to 
use on my '286? (No irony intended ... though someone might suggest GEM)

Michael Shaw <michael_shaw@optusnet.com.au> writes:
>
> What a wonderful thread! Imagine if I asked what's the best system to
> use on my '286? (No irony intended ... though someone might suggest
> GEM)

MS-DOS with Windows 3.0 isn't a bad idea for that platform.  Windows 3.1
or later will require a 386 or better, unfortunately.

OS/2 version 1.3 is also a good choice, if you plan on compiling most
of the apps yourself.  (Apps for 32-bit OS/2 are hard enough to find
these days, let alone 16-bit apps!)  Finding video drivers might be a
bear, however.

You could also run Xenix.  Don't know if there are any open source
Unixes that are 286 compatible.

-- David

shamino@techie.com (David C.) wrote in
news:m2fyvi152n.fsf@qqqq.invalid: 

> Michael Shaw <michael_shaw@optusnet.com.au> writes:
>>
>> What a wonderful thread! Imagine if I asked what's the best
>> system to use on my '286? (No irony intended ... though someone
>> might suggest GEM)
> 
> MS-DOS with Windows 3.0 isn't a bad idea for that platform. 
> Windows 3.1 or later will require a 386 or better, unfortunately.

Not quite, it was Windows "real mode" for the 8088/8086 cpu that was 
dropped from Win 3.1x
If a booting Win 3.1x system detects a 286 cpu it launches in 
"standard" mode, aka "286 protected mode".
The only caveat IIRC was programs written to take advantage of 386 
"enhanced" mode would either run very slowly or simply not at all. 
- probably an MS plot to steer folks onto that ever expanding upgrading 
spiral ;-)

-- 
dee

Mike Dee <mikedee@invalid.invalid> writes:
> 
> Not quite, it was Windows "real mode" for the 8088/8086 cpu that was
> dropped from Win 3.1x
> If a booting Win 3.1x system detects a 286 cpu it launches in 
> "standard" mode, aka "286 protected mode".

Are you sure?  I thought standard mode was dropped when Windows was
upgraded from 3.0 to 3.1.

Unfortunately, I no longer have a 286 PC to test this theory on.  (That
motherboard became flaky and useless many many years ago.)

-- David

shamino@techie.com (David C.) wrote in
news:m23brgg66u.fsf@qqqq.invalid: 

> Mike Dee <mikedee@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> Not quite, it was Windows "real mode" for the 8088/8086 cpu that
>> was dropped from Win 3.1x
>> If a booting Win 3.1x system detects a 286 cpu it launches in 
>> "standard" mode, aka "286 protected mode".
> 
> Are you sure?  I thought standard mode was dropped when Windows
> was upgraded from 3.0 to 3.1.

Real Mode was dropped in 3.1
Standard Mode was dropped in 3.11 WFW, which ran only on 386 or newer. 
A resonable consise read on the topic is here:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.x>

> Unfortunately, I no longer have a 286 PC to test this theory on. 
> (That motherboard became flaky and useless many many years ago.)

Same goes for me.

-- 
dee