🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>, richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:

> IN SHORT -- THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF
YOUR NEEDS ARE DAILY ORGANIZATION IN A TRANSIENT PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT
REQUIRING PC COORDINATION.

It's funny how much different personal experiences color the world.  Many
people find the Newton perfect for the above.  Part of the quoted user's
problem is obviously attitude.  It started off rather reasonable, don't
you think?  Then it became decidedly unreasonable.

I know someone who is similarly pissed off at fountain pens.  I happen to
love my fountain pen.  And I like my Newton, as well.

My recommendations: 1) sell the Newton to someone who will like it
                    2) Stop shopping at CompUSA

In article <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>, richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:

> 2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready. 
Additionally, the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped
again. 

You should look at WinLinX for overall connectivity-- it does far more
than NCU for Windows ever will, and it's available now. In fact, I
wouldn't be surprised if WinLinX does more than *any* connectivity tool,
for *any* palmtop platform, although I admit that I've only used Newton,
MagicCap, and Pilot.

As far as spreadsheets are concerned, you might want to look at
QuickFigure Pro (my product, so I'm admittedly biased).

[deletia]

> 4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
"Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.

Have you looked in any of the mail order catalogs? PDA Direct is the
best-- they carry almost everything, and have very good prices, as well.
Cyberian Outpost (http://www.cybout.com) is a really nice WWW-based
catalog, with a very good selection also.

If you'd like to see Newton software carried in the "computer
superstores," I'd go in and ask for it-- if enough customers do that, they
will carry it. For the moment, the only one that I know carries Newton
software is MicroCenter.

> 5.  The Newton Executive Organizer I bought from an Apple Reseller in
Dallas is worthless.  It was obviously was designed by a bunch of
technical engineers with no regard for usability.  It holds my Newton and
Cellular phone quite well, but has insufficient pockets for credit cards,
business cards, airline tickets, paper, or pens.  (Despite having the
Newton, one needs traditional pen and paper once and a while -- e.g.
giving a colleague contact numbers.)  The system is not able to replace my
Franklin Plan
> ner.

There are lots of different cases available-- PDA Direct has quite a
selection. I've just started using a Calise case, although I chose it
because it's smaller than the Apple case.

I suspect that buying a different palmtop isn't going to alleviate your
case problems-- most palmtop cases will fit the Newton, or other devices.

Hope this is useful,

Don

-- 
Don A. Vollum
PelicanWare, Inc.

Internet:  donv@teleport.com
CIS:       70540,2422

Favorite Application: QuickFigure, NewtCase, Notion-- I can't decide!

In article <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>,  <richar88@upenn.wharton.edu> wrote:
>I purchased a Message Pad 120 a couple of months ago and have not been happy 
>with it at all.  There are multiple reasons for this.  Please weigh my 
>experiences into your purchase decision:
>
[snip]
>
>If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to 
>product software for their product.  Hopefully, Apple can get HP to make the 
>hardware as well.  (Actually maybe, HP and MS can get together and finish 
>off Apple.)
>

Well...I have a new MessagePad 130 and am very pleased with it.  Not only is 
the handwriting recognition much improved over earlier versions, but I *AM* 
able to use for notetaking in meetings.  Furthermore, I'm pleased with the 
connectivity options.  I'm using Now Synchronize to keep my Newton up-to-date
W.R.T. my calendar and contacts on my home machine, and it appears to work
flawlessly.  

I'm just waiting for the Newton Connectivity software, which will make an 
excellent Solstice present.  :-)

As for having your comments about Microsoft...Bwahahahahaha.  

                                                                - Bill

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Herndon                   \               Oracle Server Technologies
wherndon@us.oracle.com             \                 MS-659409, 415.506.5769

             "The world bores you when you're cool."  - Calvin
-- 
                                                                - Bill

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Herndon                   \               Oracle Server Technologies

Hello,

  Having read this thread, I thought I'd add a word or two.

  First, I'm glad that Richard came back and read replies, and responded.

  Second, let's all be happy that Newton 120/130s are not marketed with
the same hype as the Classic.  I think that OS 2.0 Newtons get a lot
farther toward meeting the expectations set by marketing these days.

  Third, I have to wonder what Richard wants in a "more mature package",
and how much he'd be willing to pay for it.  There's (MUCH) better
technology just around the corner: it'll make MPs faster and more capable,
among other things.  I haven't the faintest idea of what it'll cost.  But
I wonder if he's found another hand-holdable device at about the same
price-point (or less) that is somehow "more mature"?  Does it exist
today?  Do we really expect MS to give it to us soon?  I'm not so sure. 
What does "more mature" mean and what does it cost?

  Lastly, I love my Newton, and it basically goes where I go.  I use it to
take notes (I've developed a small shorthand dictionary using the "expand"
feature) in interviews, send/receive e-mail, manage my money, keep track
of time on projects, names, dates, etc.  But that's just me....

  Thanks,

  Todd

In article <32304B02.1EBA@wharton.upenn.edu>, Richard Van Nostrand
<richar88@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:

>George Crump wrote:
>> 
>> My comments below:
>> 
>> richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:
>> >
>> > 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this.
>> They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.  According to customer
>> service at Apple, the whine is caused by transistors in the display.  The
>> severity of the whine varies from unit to unit.  In some it is very severe
>> and people can't stand to use the machine and in others it is nearly quiet.
>>  Mine is pretty bad, but Apple will not REPAIR their product.
>> 
>> I have never even noticed it. In fact I'm  holding it up to my ear  and I
>> still can't hear it.
>
>Apple did indicate that the whine is nonexistant in some Newtons and
>"can clear a room" (the customer service representative's words not my
>own) in others.  My Newton is somewhere in the middle.
>
>> you the embarrasment. My summary is that the Newton is just a starting
>> point. ou have to add some software (just like our PC) to really make it
>> kick. I'm a Windows 95 user and thinks it an OK OS but I find myself using
>
>My beef with the Newton is that it is marketted not as a "starting
>point" but as a Palm-top with all sorts of power "out of the box".  I'm
>looking at the back of my box right now.  It shows all the nifty
>software which comes on the thing.  It says nothing about the
>development environment and nothing about any of the third party
>software you mentioned (except Equate).  When I bought the Newton, I
>fancied it to be four things:
>
>1.  A day to day organizer
>2.  A note pad
>3.  An Address Book
>4.  A plug and play device, I buy an application and it expands the
>functionality.  
>
>The key word here is "expands".  I was foolish in believing that the
>functionality of the prior three embedded packages (the first three
>points) would be sufficient for MY needs.  If they meet YOUR needs, then
>great, but nearly everyone responding to this thread has indicated a
>variety of expansion packages each prefers.  Most people are not only
>expanding the functionality of their Newtons but also supplanting the
>functionality of the packaged programs.  I wanted to bring this point
>out explicitly because I believe a number of consumers have the
>expectation that they can buy a Newton and use the software shipped with
>it as the core functionality of the Newton.  What I'm hearing from many
>of you expert users is that the Newton is best used with third party
>software.  It's all a matter of core competencies.  With the exception
>of the screen noise, the hardware seems to be great.  The user interface
>is nice.  Maybe some of you in the know think the development
>environment is good. I'm glad it is, because it appears I will need to
>buy some software from these third party shops.
>
>The Newton is not right for me.  I expected a more mature package.  When
>I buy a laptop now.  I open it up, plug it in, and put in a CD. 
>Everything is taken care of.  My needs on a PC are rather simple.  I
>need to write letters, to perpare presentations and to run numbers.  My
>needs on a PDA are rather simple.  I need to take notes, to schedule
>meetings, to collect addresses, and to run numbers.  My PC needs are
>met.  My PDA needs are not.  I believe in another generation or two of
>products, they will be.   The trick is to figure out how to manage with
>the Newton 120 until then.
>
>For the record, I was kidding about lobbying Microsoft. (I guess I need
>to become more proficient with the smilies:)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
All above opinions are my own: often sad, always true.

F. Todd Wilson wrote:
> 
>   Third, I have to wonder what Richard wants in a "more mature package",
> and how much he'd be willing to pay for it.  There's (MUCH) better
> technology just around the corner: it'll make MPs faster and more capable,
> among other things.  I haven't the faintest idea of what it'll cost.  But
> I wonder if he's found another hand-holdable device at about the same
> price-point (or less) that is somehow "more mature"?  Does it exist
> today?  Do we really expect MS to give it to us soon?  I'm not so sure.
> What does "more mature" mean and what does it cost?
> 
I do not mean to say that a more mature product exists anywhere today,
merely that the technology as it exists today is not at the level of
maturity with which I am happy, regardless of price point.  As far as
price point, all technologically advanced products are introduced at a
high price point and then reduced as even more technologically advanced
products come to the market.  I believe my personal reservation price is
fairly high, but that does not mean a sufficient portion of the market
will support a high cost product.  Time is the answer.  Much of
corporate America held out on client-server until the networking
packages, workstations, routers, etc. came to support the mass markets. 
For those of us in high-tech, we saw client server used extensively
eight years before the masses.  Why?  Because we were willing to deal
with the immaturity of the product.

In the case of a palmtop (or PDA, if you prefer), I am not willing to
deal with headaches associated with the immaturity.  I do, however,
anxiously await the next products just over the horizon.

Rick

================================

Traditional disclaimer about my opinions and all that stuff.

I've got to comment on this because I have a completely different opinion
of this device.  And as the popularity of this forum dictates, so do many
other users.


richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote in article
<841977070.4807@dejanews.com>...
> I purchased a Message Pad 120 a couple of months ago and have not been
happy with it at all.  There are multiple reasons for this.  Please weigh
my experiences into your purchase decision:
> 
> 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this. 
They said it was a known but unrepairable problem. 

You're right many do emit a hum that is rather annoying.  I personally have
not seen a Newton yet that is unbearable but I believe those on the net who
say otherwise.  My question is this:  Have you ever listened to a laptop
and the noises it makes while turned on?  How about your PC?  Your Car?
Your TV?  It's an electronic device, it will make some noise.  Deal with it
like we do with everything else.

> 
> 2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready.  Additionally,
the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped again. 

I am not sure how you can seriously say that.  I use Win95 and send
everything I do on the newt to the PC = spreadsheets (Quickfigure Pro),
databases (FilePad 1.5), notes (X-port), dates (Sync+), Contacts (X-port). 
If they are considered impossible to acquire - how did one ever find this
newsgroup.

> 
> 3.  The handwriting recognition is faster than the old version but still
too slow to use in business meetings or for taking notes in an educational
environment.

I was in a meeting just yesterday with Plant Manager and other managers. 
As a consultant I took three typed pages worth of notes.  No one made a
comment about it or found it distracting in the least.

> 4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
"Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.
> 
You don't go to Wal-Mart to buy a CannonDale bicycle why go to a CompUSA to
buy a software package for a Newton.  If you are on the net - which you are
- you have all the resources you need to gain access to free programs, demo
programs, and information on all commercial programs available for the
Newton.  I have yet to find a program that did not have a web site.

> 5.  The Newton Executive Organizer I bought from an Apple Reseller in
Dallas is worthless. 

Why did you buy it?  You saw it first. You knew it did not have what you
wanted.

> 6.  Every now and again, certain "To Do"s will start returning errors if
I try to edit them.  
> 
Bummer

> SUMMARY
> 
> Apple has a nice concept, but they have failed to implement.  They tried
to produce an open system and to license software development to several
small companies.  In my experience I have been only frustrated by the
inability to execute by Apple and its licensees.  Lastly, Apple will not
stand behind its product (see #2).
> 
I have to disagree.  I believe they implemented very well.  I agree that
compatibility with Win95 machines should be more straight forward and
available out of the box.  That is a problem but it does not destroy it's
functionality.  Apple will begin to support PC-platform documents,
printers, and standards or they will be forced out of the market by those
who do.  

> IN SHORT -- THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF YOUR
NEEDS ARE DAILY ORGANIZATION IN A TRANSIENT PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT
REQUIRING PC COORDINATION.

My needs are that very description and I don't get it.
> 
> If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
product software for their product.  Hopefully, Apple can get HP to make
the hardware as well.  (Actually maybe, HP and MS can get together and
finish off Apple.)

The destruction of Apple would be the worst thing that could happen to the
computer industry.  No one wants Microsoft to dominate everything - not
even Microsoft.  As far as a quality product I must say I have never owned
a computer that in the number of months I have used have never lost ANY
data.  My PC MSWord locks up once and a while (not often) I lose data. 
Other apps have done likewise.  I have never lost anything on my newt.  I
trust it because of that.

My .002

-- 
David Mays
dmays@ldd.net
JDM Computers

I think the title pointed to the initial problem.

The Newton is not a palmtop, it is a PDA.

In article <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>, richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:

> I purchased a Message Pad 120 a couple of months ago and have not been
happy with it at all.  There are multiple reasons for this.  Please weigh
my experiences into your purchase decision:
> 
> 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this. 
They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.  According to customer
service at Apple, the whine is caused by transistors in the display.  The
severity of the whine varies from unit to unit.  In some it is very severe
and people can't stand to use the machine and in others it is nearly
quiet.  Mine is pretty bad, but Apple will not REPAIR their product.
> 

I hear it when the backlighting is on, but it's a lot less bothersome than
my laptops harddrive spinning all of the time. I don't hear it unless I'm
in a very quiet setting.

> 2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready. 
Additionally, the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped
again. 
> 

WinLinx will do exactly what you wnat to do. Call Newton Source 800-newton-1

For Spreadsheets -- have you tried QuickFigurePro? Call PDA Direct 800-cry-4-pda

> In short:  If you want a PDA as a portable computing device:  Do not buy
the Newton if you expect to be able to link the PDA to your Windows-based
spreadsheet programs or your Windows-based word processors.
>

See above two products.

> 3.  The handwriting recognition is faster than the old version but still
too slow to use in business meetings or for taking notes in an educational
environment.
> 

MP130. That will be fixed if Apple ever releases the rumored new hardware.

Yes, the HRW is still too slow. I can enter 25-30 words per minute when
I'm in a rush, the quality fails slightly because I'm messing up what I
write, but the builtin printing HRW will move right along on the  Have you
tried Grafitti? Grafitti is faster than Apple's builtin HRW.

> 4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
"Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.
> 

Where do you live? 

Try Newton Source in LA, Chicago, New York, Boston, San Fran.
Try The Newton Store in Toronto or Montreal

Try mail order thru PDA Direct, Newton Source, or Club PDA. 

Most Newton developers are small shops. The large distributors want your
life savings to be distributed thru them. It's more profitable (enough to
live on) to do direct sales to the Newton speciality shops.

> 5.  The Newton Executive Organizer I bought from an Apple Reseller in
Dallas is worthless.  It was obviously was designed by a bunch of
technical engineers with no regard for usability.  It holds my Newton and
Cellular phone quite well, but has insufficient pockets for credit cards,
business cards, airline tickets, paper, or pens.  (Despite having the
Newton, one needs traditional pen and paper once and a while -- e.g.
giving a colleague contact numbers.)  The system is not able to replace my
Franklin Planner.
> 

There are several third party cases. Maybe one of these will better suit
your needs.

> 6.  Every now and again, certain "To Do"s will start returning errors if
I try to edit them.  
>

Not sure why that happens.

> SUMMARY
> 
> Apple has a nice concept, but they have failed to implement.  They tried
to produce an open system and to license software development to several
small companies.  In my experience I have been only frustrated by the
inability to execute by Apple and its licensees.  Lastly, Apple will not
stand behind its product (see #2).
> 

It's easy for software development. Newton Toolkit is $299 and then you
have all of the tools you need. The Newton developement environment is the
best I've used.

Intuit, Symantic, NOW, and Monsanto are a few of the not very small companies. 

> IN SHORT -- THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF
YOUR NEEDS ARE DAILY ORGANIZATION IN A TRANSIENT PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT
REQUIRING PC COORDINATION.
> 

There are more solutions which you haven't tried. Maybe the Newton doesn't
work out of the box exactly how you expect it to work, but there are
viable solutions. A communications device is one of the big areas for the
Newton. I have thousands of customers using the Newton to log onto AOL to
check their mail. You can send and receive faxes and surf the net. It's
not a toy platform. It's powerful.

> If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
product software for their product.  Hopefully, Apple can get HP to make
the hardware as well.  (Actually maybe, HP and MS can get together and
finish off Apple.)
>

Microsoft has already failed once at trying to produce a PDA device. MS
jumped on the Apple bandwagon as usual when the Newton first came out and
then they left hundreds of developers in the cold when they decided that
they couldn't create the same quality product as Apple did. And, HP just
lost a class action suit when they were charged with using used computer
parts in computers there were selling as new. I like, Apple. Apple might
be going thru a lot of rough times, but their products do work well and if
they only had Microsofts marketing machine then they could have owned the
world like MS.

-- 
Hardy Macia      *  Catamount Software  * Newton Software Development  
(802) 372-9512   *  hardy@catamount.com *  http://www.catamount.com 
  << Aloha, PocketMoney, MPG, Silk, Namigator and more...>>

Harry Browne for President - http://www.harrybrowne96.org/  

>1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine. 

Mine's pretty quiet, but if yours is that loud I'd yell at Apple until
they replace it.  I seem to recall one or two people having been
successful at this...

>2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  

Can't help you here.

>3.  The handwriting recognition is faster than the old version but still too >slow to use in business meetings or for taking notes in an educational environment.

Um, have you tried ink text?  Works like a charm.  Besides, try taking
notes with any other PDA out there and you'll quickly see the Newton is
the best of the bunch.

>4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very little >luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the "Computer >Superstores" do not carry much if anything.

Best deals for Newton stuff (or computer stuff in general, actually) is
almost always mail order.  The only people who buy stuff at CompYOUPAY
are those who don't know any better.  NewtonSource (they have a web page
somewhere) is a good place for newton programs and gear.

>5.  The Newton Executive Organizer I bought from an Apple Reseller in Dallas is >worthless.  It was obviously was designed by a bunch of technical engineers >with no regard for usability. 

The Apple case is worthless to me because it's too _large_ - that's why I
didn't buy it.  Just because you or I don't like it doesn't make it a bad
case, though; it's just not right for our personal needs.  There's a few
third-party places that make nice Newton cases; maybe one of them would
fit your needs better - really sounds like you want a small briefcase,
though.  I'll ignore your remark about technical engineers and not start
making comments about "preppie business-school types"  :-o  

>6.  Every now and again, certain "To Do"s will start returning errors if I try >to edit them.  

Never seen this one.  Try calling Apple (1-800-SOS-APPL).  They've got
some of the best customer support I've seen.  My 120 is pretty darned
bug-free (at least I don't run into many...)

>If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to product >software for their product.  Hopefully, Apple can get HP to make the hardware >as well.  (Actually maybe, HP and MS can get together and finish off Apple.)

Okay, you made some valid points above - but MICROSOFT?  <cough> <choke> 
You're kidding, right?  The kings of software bloat?  You want _them_  to
write small, efficient programs?  You want _them_ to monopolize another
market?  Come on, remember intro. economics?  monopoly = bad for
consumer.   Even us lowly technical engineers know that one  :-)

From what you've said I'd really be suprised if there's any PDA out there
that would meet your needs, especially since you want to take notes with
it.  Best advice I can offer you if you're really unhappy with your newt
is to sell it and go back to a paper organizer and notebook - Newton
isn't for everyone.  I can however say that it works amazingly well for
me as a planner/notetaker, so Apple is apparently doing something right. 
Good luck.

------------
Tom Gubiotti
gubi@mit.edu

In article <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>, richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:

[..a bunch of nonsense deleted..]
[other nonsense of how PDAs should connect to Microsoft software deleted]

> IN SHORT -- THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF
YOUR NEEDS ARE DAILY ORGANIZATION IN A TRANSIENT PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT
REQUIRING PC COORDINATION.
> 
> If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
product software for their product.  Hopefully, Apple can get HP to make
the hardware as well.  (Actually maybe, HP and MS can get together and
finish off Apple.)

I rather like HP and its direction, but Microsoft? Hahaha... If MS were to
make a PDA, it would still be on the drawing board (read vaporware).

Why don't you lobby MS to drop its brain-dead Windoze products?
-- 
Jay Noh  (ninja@asu.edu)
"Save our earth, Greenpeace members kill yourselves!"
"In the end, there can be only one." -- Highlander referring to UNIX

My comments below:

richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:
> 
> 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this. 
They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.  According to customer
service at Apple, the whine is caused by transistors in the display.  The
severity of the whine varies from unit to unit.  In some it is very severe
and people can't stand to use the machine and in others it is nearly quiet.
 Mine is pretty bad, but Apple will not REPAIR their product.

I have never even noticed it. In fact I'm  holding it up to my ear  and I
still can't hear it.
 
> 2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready.  Additionally,
the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped again. 
> 

Try Xport or WinLynx. They will both do the job. In fact thatpoints out one
of the key advantages to Newon over most PDA's  is its extensive third
party support. From what I gather (develepers please comment) its
development environment is pretty good.

I'm not a big spreadsheet user but I think Quickfigurepro will link back to
Excel on the PC
 
> 3.  The handwriting recognition is faster than the old version but still
too slow to use in business meetings or for taking notes in an educational
environment.

I get about 25 words per minute with Graffiti (another third party) and it
is excellent for taking notes. I do not use the Newton for notes in
business meetings. Not because I could not keep up but because it draws
attention from what I am discussing. 
 
> 4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
"Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.

I order everything direct from the Newton Software manufactures. It a few
dollars more but when I want something I want it now! Because of the size
of Newton software you can talk most venders into emailing you the package.
Very Cool!

> 5.  The Newton Executive Organizer I bought from an Apple Reseller in
Dallas ...

By a differant case. On this news group there is at least 5 suggestions a
night on differant things to use as a case. Creativity...What a concept.

> 6.  Every now and again, certain "To Do"s will start returning errors if
I try to edit them.  

Never had a problem.
 
> SUMMARY
First your summary was a long as the rest of your note and changed your
reasonable complaints into self-serving whining. So I deleted them to save
you the embarrasment. My summary is that the Newton is just a starting
point. ou have to add some software (just like our PC) to really make it
kick. I'm a Windows 95 user and thinks it an OK OS but I find myself using
my Newton more and more and can foresee a time where it is my primary
compute device. I currently use Graffiti (HWR), Xport (Windows
Connectivity), Action Names (PIM) and Quick Figure Lite (as I said my
spreadsheet needs where very basic).

My 2 Cents...

George
gcrump@legato.com
 

George Crump wrote:
> 
> My comments below:
> 
> richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:
> >
> > 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this.
> They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.  According to customer
> service at Apple, the whine is caused by transistors in the display.  The
> severity of the whine varies from unit to unit.  In some it is very severe
> and people can't stand to use the machine and in others it is nearly quiet.
>  Mine is pretty bad, but Apple will not REPAIR their product.
> 
> I have never even noticed it. In fact I'm  holding it up to my ear  and I
> still can't hear it.

Apple did indicate that the whine is nonexistant in some Newtons and
"can clear a room" (the customer service representative's words not my
own) in others.  My Newton is somewhere in the middle.

> you the embarrasment. My summary is that the Newton is just a starting
> point. ou have to add some software (just like our PC) to really make it
> kick. I'm a Windows 95 user and thinks it an OK OS but I find myself using

My beef with the Newton is that it is marketted not as a "starting
point" but as a Palm-top with all sorts of power "out of the box".  I'm
looking at the back of my box right now.  It shows all the nifty
software which comes on the thing.  It says nothing about the
development environment and nothing about any of the third party
software you mentioned (except Equate).  When I bought the Newton, I
fancied it to be four things:

1.  A day to day organizer
2.  A note pad
3.  An Address Book
4.  A plug and play device, I buy an application and it expands the
functionality.  

The key word here is "expands".  I was foolish in believing that the
functionality of the prior three embedded packages (the first three
points) would be sufficient for MY needs.  If they meet YOUR needs, then
great, but nearly everyone responding to this thread has indicated a
variety of expansion packages each prefers.  Most people are not only
expanding the functionality of their Newtons but also supplanting the
functionality of the packaged programs.  I wanted to bring this point
out explicitly because I believe a number of consumers have the
expectation that they can buy a Newton and use the software shipped with
it as the core functionality of the Newton.  What I'm hearing from many
of you expert users is that the Newton is best used with third party
software.  It's all a matter of core competencies.  With the exception
of the screen noise, the hardware seems to be great.  The user interface
is nice.  Maybe some of you in the know think the development
environment is good. I'm glad it is, because it appears I will need to
buy some software from these third party shops.

The Newton is not right for me.  I expected a more mature package.  When
I buy a laptop now.  I open it up, plug it in, and put in a CD. 
Everything is taken care of.  My needs on a PC are rather simple.  I
need to write letters, to perpare presentations and to run numbers.  My
needs on a PDA are rather simple.  I need to take notes, to schedule
meetings, to collect addresses, and to run numbers.  My PC needs are
met.  My PDA needs are not.  I believe in another generation or two of
products, they will be.   The trick is to figure out how to manage with
the Newton 120 until then.

For the record, I was kidding about lobbying Microsoft. (I guess I need
to become more proficient with the smilies:)

In article <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>, richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote:

>1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this. 
They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.  According to customer
service at Apple, the whine is caused by transistors in the display.  The
severity of the whine varies from unit to unit.  In some it is very severe
and people can't stand to use the machine and in others it is nearly
quiet.  Mine is pretty bad, but Apple will not REPAIR their product.

Mine's totally silent.

>2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready. 
Additionally, the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped
again. 

Try calling the Newton Source 800-639-8661 or Newton Store at
800-558-5768; they have all sorts of stuff for Newtons, including software
and cases.

>In short:  If you want a PDA as a portable computing device:  Do not buy
the Newton if you expect to be able to link the PDA to your Windows-based
spreadsheet programs or your Windows-based word processors.

Not true; you just have to look around a little.

>4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
"Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.

Who would expect them to? They don't even carry Newtons... you need to
call the mail-order companies for software anyway. They're cheaper,
tax-free, have a wider selection, and deliver overnight.

>IN SHORT -- THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF YOUR
NEEDS ARE DAILY ORGANIZATION IN A TRANSIENT PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT
REQUIRING PC COORDINATION.

Not true at all. I've had mine for over a year, use it for scheduling &
for many other tasks, sync it to my home computer, and it works great. I
couldn't live without it.

>If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
product software for their product.  Hopefully, Apple can get HP to make
the hardware as well.  (Actually maybe, HP and MS can get together and
finish off Apple.)

Microsoft? Yeah, I can see it now; nothing will be compatible, s/w
upgrades will be next to impossible... the last company I'd look to for
hardware would be Microsoft. HP is another story.
-- 
Bob Patin
bskate@nashville.net
Web Page: http://www.nashville.net/~bskate

In article <32304B02.1EBA@wharton.upenn.edu>, Richard Van Nostrand wrote:


>When I bought the Newton, I
>fancied it to be four things:
>
>1.  A day to day organizer

It has one and it's really great; I've tried 3rd-party stuff as add-ons,
but I prefer the built-in Date application to anything else.

>2.  A note pad

Again, it works great; I use it all the time and have folders for various
topics. 

>3.  An Address Book

Same as #1. I prefer the built-in, and use it every day; I keep over 900
names & addresses in it, and have never lost any data in over a year.

>4.  A plug and play device, I buy an application and it expands the
>functionality.  

That's what the Newton is. In fact, that's what Apple Computer is about,
as opposed to the PC world.

>The key word here is "expands".  I was foolish in believing that the
>functionality of the prior three embedded packages (the first three
>points) would be sufficient for MY needs.  

Sounds like you need a laptop.

If they meet YOUR needs, then
>great, but nearly everyone responding to this thread has indicated a
>variety of expansion packages each prefers.

Not me.

>  Most people are not only
>expanding the functionality of their Newtons but also supplanting the
>functionality of the packaged programs.  I wanted to bring this point
>out explicitly because I believe a number of consumers have the
>expectation that they can buy a Newton and use the software shipped with
>it as the core functionality of the Newton.

But you CAN. That's what I do every day. I don't need additional software
to make the Dates & Names apps work for me; they work great as they are.

>  What I'm hearing from many
>of you expert users is that the Newton is best used with third party
>software.

No, but there are some great 3rd-party utilities available, and they're
nice to have.

>The Newton is not right for me.  I expected a more mature package.  When
>I buy a laptop now.  I open it up, plug it in, and put in a CD. 
>Everything is taken care of.  My needs on a PC are rather simple.

It's a good thing! Since when is a PC a "plug-and-play" device? Since
Windoze 95? Hah... my brother, who works for Hewlett-Packard and who is a
computer expert (on PCs), spent over an hour on the phone with a cousin
who was trying to get a new CD-ROM device to work. They finally gave up.
>  I need to write letters, to perpare presentations and to run numbers.  My
>needs on a PDA are rather simple.  I need to take notes, to schedule
>meetings, to collect addresses, and to run numbers.  My PC needs are
>met.  My PDA needs are not.  I believe in another generation or two of
>products, they will be.   The trick is to figure out how to manage with
>the Newton 120 until then.

Again, you may need a laptop. A non-keyboard device like the Newton is not
ideal for extensive note-taking, although I use it all the time for short
notes. I can't imagine using it in a meeting to take long notes, though. 

Another option is to buy the add-on Newton keyboard, which works great and
which makes note-taking a breeze. The Newton will take anything you can
type into it, and the keyboard is small and lightweight, and almost the
same as a normal keyboard, in terms of key spacing.

However, the next incarnation is supposed to be 10x faster, which should
make note-taking more feasible; text recognition will be blazing! I can't
wait. Until then, my 120 works great and has been a reliable tool.

Beware of slamming the Newton in this newsgroup, cuz most of us here not
only Newton lovers, but some of us (myself included) are also Newton
programmers. I moved up from a Sharp Wizard when the 120 came out, and
I've loved my Newton. BTW, I'll give you $100 cash for yours!
-- 
Bob Patin
bskate@nashville.net
Web Page: http://www.nashville.net/~bskate

Richard,

 There's a PDA which is actually a small 386sx computer with a full 
keyboard that you might want to check out.  It's called the Palmbook and 
goes fro $899 directly from the manufacturer Prolinear.  I have nothing 
to do with this company and am deciding between this and a MP130 myself. 
 If the MP130 can transfer word processing files easily with my IBM clone 
through X-Port (I just learned about this program and know nothing about 
it), I will go with the MP.  The telephone number for Prolinear is 
800-830-5977.

  Scott

Hi George,

 How well does the X-port work?  Does it work well for transfering my 
Wordperfect word processing files between a MP130 and an IBM clone?  I 
want to be able to download a file onto my MP, work on it away from my 
office and then download it again to my IBM clone.  Will this program 
accomplish this?  I really want to use my MP like a mini-laptop for word 
processing purposes.  

 I also want to coordinate my calendar with the one on the MP.  There is 
a Lanware program called Sync+ which is supposed to do this (if I get 
Microsoft's Scheduleplus program.  Have you heard anything about this?

 Also, is Grafitti an improved handwriting to type program than the 
one currently in the MP130?  How does Grafiti work?  After you download 
it as a packaged file, what do you do?   Do you have to enter it through 
the empty drawer file every time you want to write by hand, or does it 
automatically overwrite the existing handwriting software?

 Finally, you mentioned another program besides X-port and Graffiti which 
you use alot, what is it and what does it do?  (I think it was called PMI 
and dealt with names??)

 Thanks for all of your assistance to this virgn, but interested Newton 
user!

  Scott

Hi Folks,

 Sorry if this question is repetitive, but I'm not sure if my last 
posting went through.

 I want to get an MP130 primarily for word processing purposes.  I want 
to readily transfer files (such as those in Wordperfect) via Windows 
between a MP130 and my IBM clone.  Will Landware's X-Port or Winlinx 
accomplish this?  Which will do it better?

 Also, I've heard mention of Graffiti.  Does this work better than the 
handwriting software already in the MP130?  Does it over-write it, or do 
I have to open this icon on my MP130 everytime I want to use it?

 Thanks in advance for all of your assistance with this matter!

 Scott

 ssives@idsonline.com
 703-536-5024

Hi Folks:

 The guy who wrote the nasty post about the usability of the Newton got 
my attention.

 Is there any software out that will allow me to transfer word processing 
files from an MP130 to my IBM via Windows (preferably - the Wordperfect 
software) or DOS?  I really want to use a Newton MP as a small laptop 
word processor (with the optional keyboard).  Writing long notes and 
papers on the MP won't help me if I can't eventually get them 
transfered to my files on my IBM.  Do any of you have any suggestions?

 I called Apple's help line and they said that they are working on such a 
software, and that it MIGHT be out within a year.  They also suggested to 
check with Landware about a program called X-Port which might do this.  
Does anyone have any experience with X-Port or a similar program?  

 Again, I really wan't to purchase the MP130, but can't if it won't allow 
me to transfer my word-processing files to my IBM clone.  

 Also, it would be nice to update my calendar with the one on my IBM.  
There is a program from Landscape called Synch+ 1.0 which is supposed to 
do this.  Does this program work well? (It requires Microsoft's Schedule 
Plus as well).


 In the event that the MP 130 doesn't do what I need, I may look at a PDA 
called the Palmbook made by Prolinear which is actually a mini-386 - at 
least this will transfer files!

 Thanks in advance for all of your help!

 Scott

Jon A. Cruz wrote:
> 
> I think the title pointed to the initial problem.
> 
> The Newton is not a palmtop, it is a PDA.

Huh?  The Newton makes a high-pitched whine, has slow handwriting
recognition, etc, because the author called the Newton a palmtop instead
of a PDA?

I don't think so.

I think the author made some fair criticisms, although his pro-Microsoft
stance did make him look rather ridiculous.
-- 
Scott Lane       mailto:salane@pacbell.net

"Smoking is not addictive." (Pronouncement made on behalf of
all smokers while explaining to a caller that HE was able to
quit when he was a kid) -- Michael Savage 8/30/96, 4:42pm

David Mays wrote:
 
> I've got to comment on this because I have a completely different opinion
> of this device.  And as the popularity of this forum dictates, so do many
> other users.

One note, this does seem to be the Newton Lovers' Newsgroup.  The lack
of dissenting views does not mean that there are many people who either
dislike their Newton or are ambivalent about it.  I suspect many people
in the latter two categories do not subscribe to this newsgroup, present
company excluded.  Regardless of this fact, one cannot deride the number
of people speaking on the Newton's behalf.

> 
> richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote in article
> <841977070.4807@dejanews.com>...
> > I purchased a Message Pad 120 a couple of months ago and have not been
> happy with it at all.  There are multiple reasons for this.  Please weigh
> my experiences into your purchase decision:
> >
> > 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this.
> They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.
> 
> You're right many do emit a hum that is rather annoying.  I personally have
> not seen a Newton yet that is unbearable but I believe those on the net who
> say otherwise.  My question is this:  Have you ever listened to a laptop
> and the noises it makes while turned on?  How about your PC?  Your Car?
> Your TV?  It's an electronic device, it will make some noise.  Deal with it
> like we do with everything else.

If the device operated in a tolerant range, I would deal with it.  If
the muffler falls of my car or my laptop's fan starts clicking, I expect
it to be repaired (if it's under warranty, which my Newton is.)  I have
no doubt Honda or Toshiba would have responded differently to these
comparable problems than Apple did.

One other comment, white noise and low frequency noises are much less
bothersome than high frequency whines.

> >
> > 2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
> understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
> to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready.  Additionally,
> the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped again.
> 
> I am not sure how you can seriously say that.  I use Win95 and send
> everything I do on the newt to the PC = spreadsheets (Quickfigure Pro),
> databases (FilePad 1.5), notes (X-port), dates (Sync+), Contacts (X-port).
> If they are considered impossible to acquire - how did one ever find this
> newsgroup.
 
I can say it completely seriously.  I was rather clueless about the
number of packages out there for the Newton before coming to this
newsgroup, so I do thank all those who have made product
recommendations.  Perhaps by relying on some third party software I can
bear my Newton.  I still think it is too much of a bother to get
software for the Newton, but then I am always willing to pay for
convenience.  (Hint, hint any entrepreneurs out there who want to offer
a one-stop shop for all the small Newton software development shops
without a distribution network other than the Newton solution book and
an 800 number?)

> >
> > 3.  The handwriting recognition is faster than the old version but still
> too slow to use in business meetings or for taking notes in an educational
> environment.
> 
> I was in a meeting just yesterday with Plant Manager and other managers.
> As a consultant I took three typed pages worth of notes.  No one made a
> comment about it or found it distracting in the least.
> 

Did you use the keyboard?  I'm assuming you did not.  Do you use a short
hand technique?  I'm very curious about this because I consulted for
Andersen Consulting for some time before coming back for an MBA and it
was expressly the situation you described for which I found the Newton
unacceptable.


> > 4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
> little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
> "Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.
> >
> You don't go to Wal-Mart to buy a CannonDale bicycle why go to a CompUSA to
> buy a software package for a Newton.  If you are on the net - which you are
> - you have all the resources you need to gain access to free programs, demo
> programs, and information on all commercial programs available for the
> Newton.  I have yet to find a program that did not have a web site.

A CannonDale bicycle is marketted as an upper-middle tier bicycle, but
there are other options.  Some options cost 1/4 the cost and other cost
4 times the cost.  This same level of price fluctation in a product
category does not exist for PDAs (unless you count those single function
Name and Address books or schedulers as PDAs.) If I want a PC or a
laptop, where do I as Mr. American Shopper go to become educated about
my options?  I expect to go to a single retail outlet to get my INITIAL
information, as I did with a laptop.  CompuUSA, MicroAge, etc. are not
valid comparisons with Walmart because Walmart only carries low end
bicycles.  The Computer Superstores carry all kinds of computers and
SOME Newton stuff.  (You don't see Walmart carrying a model or two of
CannonDale, do you?)

> >
> > Apple has a nice concept, but they have failed to implement.  They tried
> to produce an open system and to license software development to several
> small companies.  In my experience I have been only frustrated by the
> inability to execute by Apple and its licensees.  Lastly, Apple will not
> stand behind its product (see #2).
> >
> I have to disagree.  I believe they implemented very well.  I agree that
> compatibility with Win95 machines should be more straight forward and
> available out of the box.  That is a problem but it does not destroy it's
> functionality.  Apple will begin to support PC-platform documents,
> printers, and standards or they will be forced out of the market by those
> who do.
 
Once again someone brings up the eventuality of the Newton's
functionality.  It is this temporal factor to which I am speaking when I
speak of product maturity.  The fact that the Newton will EVENTUALLY
link easily (read as: "I can buy the software easily, receive the
software easily, install the software easily, and use the software
easily.") to my PC does not help me NOW.

By the way, one thing I do think Apple has done markedly well (as is a
core competency of theirs) is the User Interface.  For what basically
amounts to a second generation product, the Newton is very easy to use. 
To boot, it is a stable platform.

My disappointment with Apple is that it holds a very strong reputation
for customer service, yet my experience has not been positive at all.  
> 
> --
> David Mays
> dmays@ldd.net
> JDM Computers

Richard,

I got a little to self-serving in my response. Just like defending things I
guess. I apoligize if I offended you. Still think the Newton is a great
thing though.


-George

Richard Van Nostrand wrote:
> 
> My disappointment with Apple is that it holds a very strong reputation
> for customer service, yet my experience has not been positive at all.
> >

This closely matches my feelings.  I've owned three Newtons, and
have a QuickTake camera.

If you're hooking any of these devices to a Macintosh, Apple's
technical support is spot on.  But if you're going to a PC, you
can almost forget it.

Comments from Apple on trying to get a PC hooked to a QuickTake: 
  "What version of System are you running?"  
  "You can't use that with your notebook. You need a 14" display"
  "Remove all the software and reinstall" (heard this one 3 times)
  "You can't use a QuickTake with a PC"

My camera still locks up every time I try to use it, and I've only
manged to get a few pictures off by borrowing a friend's Mac.
It makes a keen paperweight, though.

The Newton experience was similar.

----------------------------------------------------------------
    __     Mark Sumner 
   /  \    http://www.sff.net/people/sumner 
  /    \   DEVIL'S TOWER Preview at http://www.inlink.com/~range
^^-^^-^-^^------------------------------------------------------

>If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
>product software for their product. 

Do you really want to say this? I'm sorry for your bad experience with
Apple and your Newton but this is ludicrous. Have you taken a look at the
security bugs in Internet Explorer lately? Apple's quality, while not
perfect, is better than the industry norm. I'll take anything Apple over
Microsoft anyday.

Ben S.


---------------------------------------------------
This message was created and sent using the Cyberdog Mail System
---------------------------------------------------

In article <AE57BEDB-AE367@199.183.41.108>, "Benjamin Smith"
<bsmith2@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

::::::>If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
::::::>product software for their product. 
::::::
::::::Do you really want to say this? I'm sorry for your bad experience with
::::::Apple and your Newton but this is ludicrous. Have you taken a look at the
::::::security bugs in Internet Explorer lately? Apple's quality, while not
::::::perfect, is better than the industry norm. I'll take anything Apple over
::::::Microsoft anyday.
::::::
::::::Ben S.
::::::
::::::

I really hate to be a dork and jump in with a "me too" but I had to on
this one. . . 

I'll take anything Apple over Microsoft *anyday*! Bill hasn't brainwashed
everyone yet. :)

>THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY

Can you tell us why on earth you bought a Newton if the machine is such a waste 
of money ?

I think this post says less about the Newton than it does about you.

All the best

Ali

< warning: long post >

I think you've been rather UNFAIR in your post...on the whole.  There're
some points
which are your personal experiences with certain organisations (how to
comment?)
but I thought you were overstretching.  Let's begin with your summary, then
work
up to each point.

richar88@upenn.wharton.edu wrote in article
<841977070.4807@dejanews.com>...
> I purchased a Message Pad 120 a couple of months ago and have not been
happy with it at all.  There are multiple reasons for this.  Please weigh
my experiences into your purchase decision:

> IN SHORT -- THE MESSAGE PAD IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF YOUR
NEEDS ARE DAILY ORGANIZATION IN A TRANSIENT PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT
REQUIRING PC COORDINATION.

If the Newt doesn't fit your needs, your tastes, that's your opinion.  But
there're
many ways to use a Newt.  But you're making a lashing condemnation of the
present generation of Newts which are clearly unjustified as it seems to me
that not all the homework has been done.

Even people who are in a PC organisation may not need to sync their newt
with
their PC.  The newt could be used to hold tech notes appts, contacts.  Sure
you
could put the same thing on a pc.  But your office pc may not be with you
all the
time.  Want to carry a notebook for contacts?
How many seconds does it take to call up a notebook in sleep, find and
launch
the contact app?  Of course w95 does make things a lot easier.

Complete means complete.  But I think the message pad is far from being so
totally a waste of time and money.  However, it would be a waste (and so
would anything else) it you didn't know how to use it or what it was good
for.
Based on your other subsequent posts, I thought your verdict was too
premature.

On another post, I think your definition of mature would be if 75% of all
people
one met in a typical office carried a message pad.  Like PCs and networks
are considered mature now that most organisations, most people use one now.
Funny...dont you already know that newt users are in the minority?

Oh another thing...if you need a notebook, why bash the newton as a waste
of time and money?  Did someone try to tell you that the message pad is the
be-all and end-all of computing devices?  You could even take notes with
a micro tape-recorder, and it's very simple to use.  Why not bash that coz
it
doesn't meet your other needs?

Your other points:
1.  Tsk, tsk Apple.  I sympathise with you.  I suppose everyone would leave
the room if you turned it on.  Or your boss will smash it like a mosquito.
But seriously, I recommend buying from a Apple Dealer (not retailer).
And test it there.  If the buzz becomes that much louder later, take it
back to
the store and DEMAND a swap.  And I did do that (backlight problem in my
case).  If you don't like the first sample, ask for another, or don't buy
it!

2&4.  Since the newt is not used by so many people, retail stores would
not be carrying so many newt stuff right?  I hope you're not comparing
with notebooks and PCs...are you?
Btw, have you tried www.landware.com?

3.  There's a setting for hwr speed.  If you set it as immediate, you'll
get a
bitmap storage most of the time but this would enable you to keep up with
the conversation.  Another suggestion is to use the keyboard: if you can
touch type, it's a very fast input method.  I'm hoping that come end of the
year, there'll be a voice input Newt that could serve as a short duration
voice recorder.

5.  The latest Apple organiser is way too big for me too.  So don't buy the
Apple one!  There's lots of others.  The orginal Apple leather case is very
good (my opinion), and I wonder why they stopped making it?  *sigh*
There're websites that have a pretty good spread of opinions on cases for
the newt, among other things.  Sorry, don't have the url.

6.  Sounds like some kinda soup corruption.  Did you try any beta s/w?
One trashed the data on my newt and taught me a lesson.  I did a restore
and the Newt has been stable ever since.

Sometimes, on my PC a Word file will not even open and recently, an error
with a hpLJ driver and a customer's PC, which didn't make any sense turned
out to be a corrupt REG.DAT (registry) file on w311.
Heck, it's very easy to corrupt the registry file (corrupted fat, lost
clusters) and
in w95 this is require a reinstall of w95 and all the apps.
Does this make w311 or w95 immature in any way?

You're not reaaly trying to gun the newt are you?

-- 
Eugene Tan
INSIGHTS Innovatively Integrated
insights@pobox.org.sg


> 
> 1.  The screen emits a high pitched whine.  I called Apple about this. 
They said it was a known but unrepairable problem.  According to customer
service at Apple, the whine is caused by transistors in the display.  The
severity of the whine varies from unit to unit.  In some it is very severe
and people can't stand to use the machine and in others it is nearly quiet.
 Mine is pretty bad, but Apple will not REPAIR their product.
> 
> 2.  Connection software is nearly impossible to acquire.  It is my
understanding that Newton Connections for Windows 95 which would allow me
to dump my Notes pages into Microsoft Word is not yet ready.  Additionally,
the Spreadsheet software from Holosoft (Equate) was slipped again. 
> 
> In short:  If you want a PDA as a portable computing device:  Do not buy
the Newton if you expect to be able to link the PDA to your Windows-based
spreadsheet programs or your Windows-based word processors.
> 
> 3.  The handwriting recognition is faster than the old version but still
too slow to use in business meetings or for taking notes in an educational
environment.
> 
> 4.  While software is supposed to be readily available, I have had very
little luck at companies such as CompUSA, MicroAge, etc.  Most of the
"Computer Superstores" do not carry much if anything.
> 
> 5.  The Newton Executive Organizer I bought from an Apple Reseller in
Dallas is worthless.  It was obviously was designed by a bunch of technical
engineers with no regard for usability.  It holds my Newton and Cellular
phone quite well, but has insufficient pockets for credit cards, business
cards, airline tickets, paper, or pens.  (Despite having the Newton, one
needs traditional pen and paper once and a while -- e.g. giving a colleague
contact numbers.)  The system is not able to replace my Franklin Planner.
> 
> 6.  Every now and again, certain "To Do"s will start returning errors if
I try to edit them.  
> 
> SUMMARY
> 
> Apple has a nice concept, but they have failed to implement.  They tried
to produce an open system and to license software development to several
small companies.  In my experience I have been only frustrated by the
inability to execute by Apple and its licensees.  Lastly, Apple will not
stand behind its product (see #2).
> 

In article <32314375.3DCC@wharton.upenn.edu> Richard Van Nostrand
<richar88@wharton.upenn.edu> writes:
>One note, this does seem to be the Newton Lovers' Newsgroup.  The lack
>of dissenting views does not mean that there are many people who either
>dislike their Newton or are ambivalent about it.  I suspect many people
>in the latter two categories do not subscribe to this newsgroup, present
>company excluded.

Given the wild distribution that you gave your original message (some six
different news groups) I'd say that your statement here is not exactly valid. 
Yes, you hit comp.sys.newton.misc which will undoubtably have numerous Newton
fans reading, but life in the other groups you've hit isn't quite so pro
Newton.  For example I've seen numerous comments in the past in comp.sys.pen
complaining that the Newton is inadequate.

>Regardless of this fact, one cannot deride the number
>of people speaking on the Newton's behalf.

Indeed.  What's especially remarkable is that given the distribution of this
thread there have been no messages siding with your point of view.

To me it sounds as if your only real problem with your Newton is the whine from
the power-saving circuitry (the screen-whine to which you refer).  It is not
unheard of for Newtons to be replaced for this exact problem, however all
MessagePad's from the 110 onwards exhibit this flaw to some degree.  If I were
you I'd persist in talking to Apple about getting a replacement.

>One other comment, white noise and low frequency noises are much less
>bothersome than high frequency whines.

I don't know...  Personally I'm used to high frequency noise - I can hear when
a TV or computer monitor is turned on from the high-pitch whistle the tube
makes, so I've learned to live with it.  Not many people have such a range of
hearing though.

>I can say it completely seriously.  I was rather clueless about the
>number of packages out there for the Newton before coming to this
>newsgroup, so I do thank all those who have made product
>recommendations.

And this is exactly where you have made a fool of yourself.  Instead of just
writing to comp.sys.newton.misc saying "hey guys, I've got a few problems with
my Newton, got any advice?" you decided instead to publically deride the
product without having all the facts.  Then again, maybe your tactic was a wise
one after all, since you provoked significant debate and answers to your
problems were quickly forthcoming, although I seriously doubt that was your
original intent.

>Perhaps by relying on some third party software I can
>bear my Newton.

Well, nothing is going to stop the whine, but extra software can certainly fill
in most of the functional gaps you perceive.  You should have all the answers
by now as to what packages will fill your needs, so I won't go into them.

>I still think it is too much of a bother to get
>software for the Newton, but then I am always willing to pay for
>convenience.  (Hint, hint any entrepreneurs out there who want to offer
>a one-stop shop for all the small Newton software development shops
>without a distribution network other than the Newton solution book and
>an 800 number?)

This would indeed be a good idea, and I'd be interested in signing up myself,
since I'm a small Newton development company.

However there are a large number of information sources for Newton - all you
need to do is to look up Newton on a web search engine and you'll find quite a
few web sites, many of which offer mail-order services.

>Once again someone brings up the eventuality of the Newton's
>functionality.  It is this temporal factor to which I am speaking when I
>speak of product maturity.  The fact that the Newton will EVENTUALLY
>link easily (read as: "I can buy the software easily, receive the
>software easily, install the software easily, and use the software
>easily.") to my PC does not help me NOW.

But as you now well know you can buy software reasonably easily through the
internet, or by phone, you can receive it easily, installing has never been a
problem, and using it is simply a case of tapping on an icon.  You should
already know the product titles from this thread, so I won't rehash them.

I'd say that Newton is a rather mature platform for it's three years -
significantly more so than the PC was after the same time period.  The near
future for the platform should also be interesting.

>By the way, one thing I do think Apple has done markedly well (as is a
>core competency of theirs) is the User Interface.  For what basically
>amounts to a second generation product, the Newton is very easy to use. 
>To boot, it is a stable platform.

Absolutely.  Indeed, it's been a stable platform since version 1.0.  In the
three years I've been using Newton I haven't lost any data yet, even in the
fraught operations of transfering my data up the Apple product range.

>My disappointment with Apple is that it holds a very strong reputation
>for customer service, yet my experience has not been positive at all.  

Persist, and things should get better.

Steve

Steven Sims wrote:
> 
> In article <32314375.3DCC@wharton.upenn.edu> Richard Van Nostrand
> <richar88@wharton.upenn.edu> writes:

> >I can say it completely seriously.  I was rather clueless about the
> >number of packages out there for the Newton before coming to this
> >newsgroup, so I do thank all those who have made product
> >recommendations.
> 
> And this is exactly where you have made a fool of yourself.  Instead of just
> writing to comp.sys.newton.misc saying "hey guys, I've got a few problems with
> my Newton, got any advice?" you decided instead to publically deride the
> product without having all the facts.  Then again, maybe your tactic was a wise
> one after all, since you provoked significant debate and answers to your
> problems were quickly forthcoming, although I seriously doubt that was your
> original intent.

Finally, someone suspects that someone might actually take a contra-view
to encourage a little debate.  Stunning concept.  I'm glad "A Modest
Proposal" was not first published on this web site.

> 
> Persist, and things should get better.

Ain't that the truth?

> 
> Steve

Rick

I am a Pilot owner, but I thought I would add my 2 cents.  I would have
loved to buy a Newton.  All of the info I have seen, says that with the
advent of the MP130, this is the best Palmtop/PDA around.. HOWEVER, I opted
for the cheaper solution, as my needs currently are only Organizer type
tasks.  If this is all the original poster want, and the connectivity is a
big issue, he might want to look at a Pilot.  Can't really take notes on it
though....

>If you appreciate quality products, lobby Apple to license Microsoft to
>product software for their product. 

You must be out-your-mind boy. MS hasn't brainwashed my ass... and never
will. LONG LIVE APPLE... LONG LIVE THE NEWTON!

Seriously... Apple and Newton have their shortcomings... like
anything... but to think of the alternative <shudder>... I would rather
die. I'll choose Apple products of MS any day, any time.

P.S. I love my 130... it friggin' rules.
-- 
Adam Bomb
cyber.phunk.productions
http://www.iuma.com/bands/Adam_Bomb
http://members.aol.com/irok/creed/index.htm

"If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything"

hardy@catamount.com (Hardy Macia) wrote:

<<Try Newton Source in LA, Chicago, New York, Boston, San Fran.
Try The Newton Store in Toronto or Montreal>>

Do you (or anyone) know if the Boston store has opened?


"There are two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity 
and I'm not really sure about the universe."  Albert Einstein

Mark Gitlitz
EMC Corp
Hopkinton, Mass

Hardy Macia wrote:
Rather large Snip...
> 
> Microsoft has already failed once at trying to produce a PDA device. MS
> jumped on the Apple bandwagon as usual when the Newton first came out and
> then they left hundreds of developers in the cold when they decided that
> they couldn't create the same quality product as Apple did. And, HP just
> lost a class action suit when they were charged with using used computer
> parts in computers there were selling as new.

I can't let that statement go without a reply...It WAS NOT HP It was
Packard Bell.  People get the two confused because Hewlett PACKARD adn
PACKARD Bell have similar names (PB did that on purpose to get some of
HP's Rep)  Hewlett packard is one of the finest companies out there
(they have their share of problems, but the recent Suit against Packard
Bell was not one of them.)

Thanks, Sorry if I was raving....
Wendy

 I like, Apple. Apple might
> be going thru a lot of rough times, but their products do work well and if
> they only had Microsofts marketing machine then they could have owned the
> world like MS.
> 
> --
> Hardy Macia      *  Catamount Software  * Newton Software Development
> (802) 372-9512   *  hardy@catamount.com *  http://www.catamount.com
>   << Aloha, PocketMoney, MPG, Silk, Namigator and more...>>
> 
> Harry Browne for President - http://www.harrybrowne96.org/

I had a long term loan of a Newton 110, but found I never got good enough 
at its idea of handwriting to be comfortable using it. HWR was also far 
too slow for me.  It is now off on long term loan to someone else, and I'll 
be interested in seeing how they make out with it.  However it did seem really
nice on "tick the box" applications.  If you could operate it for all you 
want by selecting items from lists, it worked well (our application was a 
diet tracking tool for a medical application).  Other problems.  Too large to
fit in a pocket, so although I carried it in my bag, it always seemed to 
be at home, or on the desk, rather than with me.

Had a Sharp PC3100 (MS-Dos).  About the same size as the Newton, but a 
clearer display.  The PIM provided was incredibly slow.  Works fine if 
you don't mind finding and installing obscure old DOS programs to get 
round the ones provided.  I used that from 1992 to 1995.  Great keyboard, 
but still too large to carry wherever you went.  And not everyone cares to 
replace command.com with 4Dos and other utilities to get the software 
they want.  Good battery life also.

Bought a HP OmniGo 100 (mail order) and found its applications were 
very well thought out.  I didn't have much trouble using HWR with Grafitti 
(although I never did get fast with it), but preferred the keyboard.  
However although the Grafitti input was pretty much instant, all the 
applications seemed to take too long to start up, and most seemed really 
slow to work.  But mainly, I couldn't read the display.  Your eyesight 
may vary.  Anyone want to buy an OmniGo (only used one set of batteries)?

Can't stand the keyboard on the HP200LX.  I've walked into a store at 
least three times intending to buy one, tried out the keyboard yet 
again. And walked out without it.  Lots of people like the keyboard 
(or at least, they buy the thing).

At the moment I'm using a Psion 3a (but remember the improved 3c 
is due out 1st November).  Fewer keys than the HP in about the same 
area.  Lighter.  Great battery life (40-80 hours).  Very nice internal 
applications, especially the Agenda and Word. The Data application needs 
an upgrade (too limited - fixed in 3c).  Nice programming language 
included.  Lots of freeware and shareware on the net.  Fast and 
responsive multitasking.  Disadvantages are custom memory modules 
which are costly, limited file size in most applications (64k) 
except the database, and costly custom cables.  It is still the best 
thought out palmtop of the half dozen I've really used at length.

Your mileage may vary.  Try to get use of each one you seriously consider 
for say, a week, and try to use it instead of paper for the entire 
week.  Only then are you likely to be able to make an informed decision.
--
eric@zen.maths.uts.edu.au        Eric Lindsay, School of Mathematical Sciences
Don't take life too seriously.   University of Technology, Sydney, Australia.
It is only temporary.            +61 2 330 2254 office +61 2 330 2248 fax
World SF Con - Australia in 1999 http://www.maths.uts.edu.au/staff/eric/ain99

In <323809EF.5D02@mercury.net>,
Wendy R. Williams <maeven@mercury.net> wrote:

> I can't let that statement go without a reply...It WAS NOT HP It was
> Packard Bell.  People get the two confused because Hewlett PACKARD adn
> PACKARD Bell have similar names (PB did that on purpose to get some of
> HP's Rep)  Hewlett packard is one of the finest companies out there
> (they have their share of problems, but the recent Suit against Packard
> Bell was not one of them.)

Yes, HP is one of the finest companies out there.  Packard, when he
died, recently, left so much money to start a charitable fund that it
is already the world's 3rd largest charitable fund in existense.

They also cut a rather interesting deal with their employees, to avoid
laying them off (when the company was in some financial trouble).
Everone voluntarily took a 20% pay cut in exchange for not having to
work Fridays.  These people liked their jobs so much that almost no
one left.

Take that AT&T.

Moving on.  Packard Bell sucks rocks really hard.  I wouldn't buy one
of their computers unless it came with another one that would actually
work.  Their machines re shoddy, have one of the industries highest
return rates, and are overpriced.  To top it all off, they reuse parts
and don't label the machines as containing old parts.  After the
lawsuit was started, they tried to stave it off by saying they would
include labeling stating "contains parts from other computers, works,
etc.." but only on the _inside_ of the box.  So you wouldn't know
about the used parts until after you bought the computer.

I think the suit was settled, against PB, just recently.

> > I like, Apple. Apple might
> > be going thru a lot of rough times, but their products do work well and if
> > they only had Microsofts marketing machine then they could have owned the
> > world like MS.

You know what?  Apple might have turned into MS if they had gotten 90%
market share with their old way of thinking.  MACs are great, but
innovation always gets hurt when one company does everything and has
no competition.

That being said, I'm realising, just recently, that I will be a lot
happier in life if I support companies that make products that I want,
not companies that have huge market share.

I try to avoid buying products where the company is going bankrupt or
will dissapear tomorrow (Apple is neither), but other than that, I'll
buy what helps me get the job done.  MACs do that, very very well.  My
new Newton does that, very very well.

I help Apple by buying Apple products (or PowerComputing products :)
and support my shareware authors by registering their products.  If
MAC owners can show that they are better than PC owners by registering
their shareware more often, and suporting smaller MAC firms that make
great products, we can make the MAC market share explode.

OK, enough for now.

Joshua
___________________________________________________________________
<mailto:joshua@netaxs.com> /\/\/\  <http://www.netaxs.com/~joshua/>
 "The conspiracy is you are the conspiracy." - TheSchwaCorporation