🚀 go-pugleaf

It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from working 
in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.  If we won't
at least try to stop them from getting jobs, then in reality, we don't want 
to stop them from coming in.  Send the employers to Bagdad,
the new volunteers for Bush's war!

"gringogirl" <sumarlidhi@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:1154821662.100834.252920@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://forum.chronwatch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30907
>
> interesting discussion
> and  the mexicos - while the majority - there are also all the Hindu
> workers etc who come here on Work  visas and forget to go home
> 

~^*^~ wrote:
> It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from working 
> in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.

No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social 
services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time around 
hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because of 
being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are 
suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let 
em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente 
of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are. 
Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It 
will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not over 
load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not 
respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't be 
give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are 
way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the 
employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage. 
Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or 
eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which 
means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.


   If we won't
> at least try to stop them from getting jobs, then in reality, we don't want 
> to stop them from coming in.  Send the employers to Bagdad,
> the new volunteers for Bush's war!
> 
> "gringogirl" <sumarlidhi@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> news:1154821662.100834.252920@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> http://forum.chronwatch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30907
>>
>> interesting discussion
>> and  the mexicos - while the majority - there are also all the Hindu
>> workers etc who come here on Work  visas and forget to go home
>>
> 
> 

"Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
news:B_ydnWZ-msrFkkvZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> ~^*^~ wrote:
> > It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from
working
> > in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.
>
> No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social
> services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time around
> hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because of
> being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are
> suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let
> em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente
> of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are.
> Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It
> will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not over
> load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not
> respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't be
> give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are
> way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the
> employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage.
> Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or
> eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which
> means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.
>
>
>    If we won't
> > at least try to stop them from getting jobs, then in reality, we don't
want
> > to stop them from coming in.  Send the employers to Bagdad,
> > the new volunteers for Bush's war!
> >
> > "gringogirl" <sumarlidhi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1154821662.100834.252920@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> http://forum.chronwatch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30907
> >>
> >> interesting discussion
> >> and  the mexicos - while the majority - there are also all the Hindu
> >> workers etc who come here on Work  visas and forget to go home
> >>
> >
> >

"Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
news:B_ydnWZ-msrFkkvZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> ~^*^~ wrote:
> > It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from
working
> > in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.
>
> No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social
> services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time around
> hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because of
> being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are
> suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let
> em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente
> of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are.
> Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It
> will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not over
> load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not
> respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't be
> give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are
> way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the
> employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage.
> Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or
> eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which
> means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.

I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine. These folks
are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work wasn't
here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
citizens. Then they wouldn't be illegal and employers wouldn't be able to
undercut legal wages.

Curt

Curt wrote:
> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
> news:B_ydnWZ-msrFkkvZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> ~^*^~ wrote:
>>> It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from
> working
>>> in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.
>> No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social
>> services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time around
>> hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because of
>> being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are
>> suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let
>> em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente
>> of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are.
>> Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It
>> will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not over
>> load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not
>> respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't be
>> give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are
>> way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the
>> employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage.
>> Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or
>> eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which
>> means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.
> 
> I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.

Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are 
criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it 
(Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be 
across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be 
tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That is 
being fair.

  These folks
> are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work wasn't
> here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
> citizens.

Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do 
you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the 
line? Man think this through.


  Then they wouldn't be illegal and employers wouldn't be able to
> undercut legal wages.
> 
> Curt
> 
> 

"Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
news:_NGdnb1a3didEEvZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Curt wrote:


> > I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
>
> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That is
> being fair.

I don't know any such thing. It's illegal to Cross Illegally. Kind of like
it was illegal for you to drive 70mph on the freeway like you did last week.
(Don't lie.) But it's not illegal to Be Here After Crossing The Border. Kind
of like it's not illegal for you to be a Guy That Drove 70mph Last Week. See
what I mean? There's no crime called "being an illegal alien". We don't
throw you in jail for it. We just deport you.

The problem here, the way I see it (and you're welcome to disagree) is the
employers that hire these people. They're the attractant. Make it
unattractive to hire these folks, people will stop hiring them, and they'll
stop coming. Yeah?


>
>   These folks
> > are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
wasn't
> > here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
> > citizens.
>
> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
> line? Man think this through.

If I did what? Make it unattractive to hire illegals? I think that would
send a great signal to those who are here legally. The signal would be:
We're against hiring people who are going to undercut your wages.

Which is, at the end of all this, the only real issue.

Curt

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:18:03 -0700, "Curt" <cje@hevanet.com> wrote:


>Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal alien.
>You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.

>Curt
>

Sort of like being deported with rights of return?

DCI

Curt said on 8/16/2006 10:18 AM:
> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
> news:_NGdnb1a3didEEvZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>   
>> Curt wrote:
>>     
>>> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
>>> news:B_ydnWZ-msrFkkvZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>       
>>>> ~^*^~ wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from
>>>>>           
>>> working
>>>       
>>>>> in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.
>>>>>           
>>>> No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social
>>>> services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time
>>>>         
> around
>   
>>>> hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because
>>>>         
> of
>   
>>>> being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are
>>>> suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let
>>>> em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente
>>>> of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are.
>>>> Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It
>>>> will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not
>>>>         
> over
>   
>>>> load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not
>>>> respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't
>>>>         
> be
>   
>>>> give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are
>>>> way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the
>>>> employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage.
>>>> Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or
>>>> eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which
>>>> means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.
>>>>         
>>> I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
>>>       
>> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
>> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
>> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
>> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
>> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That is
>> being fair.
>>     
>
>
> Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal alien.
> You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.
>
>   
===========
Actually, they can go to jail for it. They can be charged with 
conspiracy to smuggle which is a felony.
And, if caught a second time, they can get 6 months ( without any 
conspiracy rap .. just being illegal ).
===========
>   
>>   These folks
>>     
>>> are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
>>>       
> wasn't
>   
>>> here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
>>> citizens.
>>>       
===========
Strange the newspaper in Mexico city has over 100 pages of help wanted ads.
There is plenty of work in Mexico. But they don't like the wages.

Can't say I blame them for not liking their countries economic system .. 
but they should stay home and revolt and fix their own house.

Seems I saw an article just recently that only 5% of the illegals 
surveyed had been unemployed at home.
===========
>> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
>> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
>> line? Man think this through.
>>     
>
> I have, believe it or not. My deal is, I don't care if they're not white. I
> just want them to stop depressing wages. If they were legal workers, they
> wouldn't be depressing wages. They could unionize, refuse to work unpaid
> overtime, file OSHA complaints, etc etc. That's my only issue with illegal
> immigration.
>
> Curt
>
>   
=========
Very true. One solution is to grant instant citizenship at the border. 
Then employers couldn't brow beat them with threats of calling Immigration.

That won't happen though, because business WANTS them to be illegal so 
they can be forced to work for low wages in crappy unsafe conditions to 
increase their profit.


-- 
I don't hate Bush ... I hate what he DOES ... you're damned right I do.

No .. No .. I < do > hate Bush. I hate him BECAUSE of what he does.

So call me a proud Bush Hater.

"Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
news:_NGdnb1a3didEEvZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Curt wrote:
> > "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
> > news:B_ydnWZ-msrFkkvZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> ~^*^~ wrote:
> >>> It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from
> > working
> >>> in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.
> >> No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social
> >> services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time
around
> >> hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because
of
> >> being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are
> >> suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let
> >> em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente
> >> of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are.
> >> Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It
> >> will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not
over
> >> load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not
> >> respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't
be
> >> give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are
> >> way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the
> >> employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage.
> >> Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or
> >> eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which
> >> means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.
> >
> > I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
>
> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That is
> being fair.


Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal alien.
You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.


>
>   These folks
> > are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
wasn't
> > here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
> > citizens.
>
> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
> line? Man think this through.

I have, believe it or not. My deal is, I don't care if they're not white. I
just want them to stop depressing wages. If they were legal workers, they
wouldn't be depressing wages. They could unionize, refuse to work unpaid
overtime, file OSHA complaints, etc etc. That's my only issue with illegal
immigration.

Curt

"az-willie" <sclause@npole.com> wrote in message
news:aqIEg.204798$k%3.95987@dukeread12...
> Curt said on 8/16/2006 10:18 AM:
> > "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message

.
> >>>>
> >>> I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
> >>>
> >> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
> >> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
> >> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
> >> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
> >> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That
is
> >> being fair.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal
alien.
> > You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.
> >
> >
> ===========
> Actually, they can go to jail for it. They can be charged with
> conspiracy to smuggle which is a felony.
> And, if caught a second time, they can get 6 months ( without any
> conspiracy rap .. just being illegal ).
> ===========

I'll take your word for that, although I've never heard of it happening.
Conspiracy to smuggle what? Themselves?


> >
> >>   These folks
> >>
> >>> are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
> >>>
> > wasn't
> >
> >>> here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
> >>> citizens.
> >>>
> ===========
> Strange the newspaper in Mexico city has over 100 pages of help wanted
ads.
> There is plenty of work in Mexico. But they don't like the wages.
>
> Can't say I blame them for not liking their countries economic system ..
> but they should stay home and revolt and fix their own house.
>
> Seems I saw an article just recently that only 5% of the illegals
> surveyed had been unemployed at home.
> ===========

Fair enough. But work that doesn't pay enough to keep you around

.
> >> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
> >> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
> >> line? Man think this through.
> >>
> >
> > I have, believe it or not. My deal is, I don't care if they're not
white. I
> > just want them to stop depressing wages. If they were legal workers,
they
> > wouldn't be depressing wages. They could unionize, refuse to work unpaid
> > overtime, file OSHA complaints, etc etc. That's my only issue with
illegal
> > immigration.
> >
> > Curt
> >
> >
> =========
> Very true. One solution is to grant instant citizenship at the border.
> Then employers couldn't brow beat them with threats of calling
Immigration.
>
> That won't happen though, because business WANTS them to be illegal so
> they can be forced to work for low wages in crappy unsafe conditions to
> increase their profit.

Well I don't want to grant instant citizenship either, realistically. But
it's a solution that would accomplish what I want to happen as regards
wages.

Curt

someone wrote:

> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?)

Having seen the great Lady in person, I guarntee you she is NOT wearing 
a blindfold.

Now, if you are talking about the statue of "justice" you are certainly 
correct.

-- 
There are two ways to spell Ockham/Occam.  Britannica prefers the former.

Curt said on 8/16/2006 12:25 PM:
> "az-willie" <sclause@npole.com> wrote in message
> news:aqIEg.204798$k%3.95987@dukeread12...
>   
>> Curt said on 8/16/2006 10:18 AM:
>>     
>>> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
>>>       
>
> .
>   
>>>>> I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
>>>> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
>>>> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
>>>> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
>>>> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That
>>>>         
> is
>   
>>>> being fair.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal
>>>       
> alien.
>   
>>> You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> ===========
>> Actually, they can go to jail for it. They can be charged with
>> conspiracy to smuggle which is a felony.
>> And, if caught a second time, they can get 6 months ( without any
>> conspiracy rap .. just being illegal ).
>> ===========
>>     
>
> I'll take your word for that, although I've never heard of it happening.
> Conspiracy to smuggle what? Themselves?
>   
=======
Yep, when they seek out a coyote to smuggle them and plan how they are 
going to be smuggled -- that is a conspiracy to commit a crime ( 
smuggling ).
=======
>
>   
>>>>   These folks
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>> wasn't
>>>
>>>       
>>>>> here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
>>>>> citizens.
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>> ===========
>> Strange the newspaper in Mexico city has over 100 pages of help wanted
>>     
> ads.
>   
>> There is plenty of work in Mexico. But they don't like the wages.
>>
>> Can't say I blame them for not liking their countries economic system ..
>> but they should stay home and revolt and fix their own house.
>>
>> Seems I saw an article just recently that only 5% of the illegals
>> surveyed had been unemployed at home.
>> ===========
>>     
>
> Fair enough. But work that doesn't pay enough to keep you around
>   
=======
I sympathize with their problem -- but it is THEIR problem, not the 
problem of the legal workers in the U.S.
Except it is being made our problem.

Employers shipped out all the jobs they can to low / slave wage 
countries and for those jobs they can't export they want to import the 
cheap labor and they are paying our Congresscritters to do nothing but 
talk and pretend they will stop it.

Ironically, the U.S. ships back people from China and Barbados and many 
other places because they are classified as economic refugees ( not 
fleeing communism ). The government claims they are only coming here for 
economic reasons but it opens it's arms to the people coming across out 
southern border for economic reasons and will often even state they are 
only coming here to improve their lot in life.

Can you say hypocrisy boys and girls?
==========
> .
>   
>>>> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
>>>> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
>>>> line? Man think this through.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> I have, believe it or not. My deal is, I don't care if they're not
>>>       
> white. I
>   
>>> just want them to stop depressing wages. If they were legal workers,
>>>       
> they
>   
>>> wouldn't be depressing wages. They could unionize, refuse to work unpaid
>>> overtime, file OSHA complaints, etc etc. That's my only issue with
>>>       
> illegal
>   
>>> immigration.
>>>
>>> Curt
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> =========
>> Very true. One solution is to grant instant citizenship at the border.
>> Then employers couldn't brow beat them with threats of calling
>>     
> Immigration.
>   
>> That won't happen though, because business WANTS them to be illegal so
>> they can be forced to work for low wages in crappy unsafe conditions to
>> increase their profit.
>>     
>
> Well I don't want to grant instant citizenship either, realistically. But
> it's a solution that would accomplish what I want to happen as regards
> wages.
>
> Curt
>
>   
========
Have no fear, it will never happen because business wants workers it can 
threaten and force to work in substandard conditions and for substandard 
wages. The CEO's don't give a damn as long as they get their 
multi-million dollar bonus and can live in the South of France or the 
Caribbean or whereever in the lap of luxury.

They will get theirs and they don't give a damn who they hurt in the 
process or if they destroy this country.


-- 
I don't hate Bush ... I hate what he DOES ... you're damned right I do.

No .. No .. I < do > hate Bush. I hate him BECAUSE of what he does.

So call me a proud Bush Hater.

Curt wrote:
> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
> news:_NGdnb1a3didEEvZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Curt wrote:
>>> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
>>> news:B_ydnWZ-msrFkkvZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> ~^*^~ wrote:
>>>>> It is not necessary to deport any of them if you prevent them from
>>> working
>>>>> in our country.  Do that and they'll go home.
>>>> No they won't social services will be overloaded which will make social
>>>> services happy because they can ask for a bigger budget next time
> around
>>>> hiring even more people who want to do as little as they can (Because
> of
>>>> being a govt employee) to get a check. Vicious circle. Do like they are
>>>> suppose to do and no more chain babies dropped her deport them and let
>>>> em cry their eyes out on the way back to Mexico and then the Presidente
>>>> of Mexico and the left can cry how cold callous the Republicans are.
>>>> Fine the holy piss out of companies that hiring the undocumented. It
>>>> will take awhile but it will send a strong message that we will not
> over
>>>> load our schools hospitals or public housing with people that do not
>>>> respect our laws. Worried about over crowding in jails with em? don't
> be
>>>> give em slop twice a day and they will not want to come back. We are
>>>> way, way way to generous to those who take jobs from others. If the
>>>> employers can't get cheap labor they will have to pay a better wage.
>>>> Increasing prices lower the tax burden on the lower wage earners or
>>>> eliminate it all together it will be like a wage increase to them which
>>>> means they will have more spendable income to stimulate the economy.
>>> I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
>> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
>> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
>> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
>> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
>> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That is
>> being fair.
> 
> 
> Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal alien.
> You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.

Semantics! You know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Don't dance be 
honest. Wrong is wrong. If your going to bust the dealers then bust the 
users too.


> 
> 
>>   These folks
>>> are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
> wasn't
>>> here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
>>> citizens.
>> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
>> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
>> line? Man think this through.
> 
> I have, believe it or not. My deal is, I don't care if they're not white. I
> just want them to stop depressing wages. If they were legal workers, they
> wouldn't be depressing wages. They could unionize, refuse to work unpaid
> overtime, file OSHA complaints, etc etc. That's my only issue with illegal
> immigration.
> 
> Curt
> 
> 

So really, the Union is your priority not what is the right thing for 
this nation.

az-willie wrote:

> Curt said on 8/16/2006 12:25 PM:
> 
>> "az-willie" <sclause@npole.com> wrote in message
>> news:aqIEg.204798$k%3.95987@dukeread12...
>>  
>>
>>> Curt said on 8/16/2006 10:18 AM:
>>>    
>>>
>>>> "Larry (Scratch)" <Scratch@Tigard.OR.com> wrote in message
>>>>       
>>
>>
>> .
>>  
>>
>>>>>> I think just the "fine the holy piss" option would do just fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           
>>>>>
>>>>> Disagree curt, they know damn well they are breaking the law. They are
>>>>> criminals. If you are going to hand out justice and be fair about it
>>>>> (Remember the blindfold on the statue of liberty?) it has got to be
>>>>> across the board. You have to send a signal that this will not be
>>>>> tolerated by any criminal be they a big criminal or a small one. That
>>>>>         
>>
>> is
>>  
>>
>>>>> being fair.
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>
>>>> Well, no, they're not criminals. It's not a crime to be an illegal
>>>>       
>>
>> alien.
>>  
>>
>>>> You can't go to jail for it. You can only be deported.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>
>>> ===========
>>> Actually, they can go to jail for it. They can be charged with
>>> conspiracy to smuggle which is a felony.
>>> And, if caught a second time, they can get 6 months ( without any
>>> conspiracy rap .. just being illegal ).
>>> ===========
>>>     
>>
>>
>> I'll take your word for that, although I've never heard of it happening.
>> Conspiracy to smuggle what? Themselves?
>>   
> 
> =======
> Yep, when they seek out a coyote to smuggle them and plan how they are 
> going to be smuggled -- that is a conspiracy to commit a crime ( 
> smuggling ).
> =======
> 
>>
>>  
>>
>>>>>   These folks
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>> are coming here for work, after all, not for the company. If the work
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           
>>>>
>>>> wasn't
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>> here, neither would be the folks. Another option -- just let them be
>>>>>> citizens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           
>>>
>>> ===========
>>> Strange the newspaper in Mexico city has over 100 pages of help wanted
>>>     
>>
>> ads.
>>  
>>
>>> There is plenty of work in Mexico. But they don't like the wages.
>>>
>>> Can't say I blame them for not liking their countries economic system ..
>>> but they should stay home and revolt and fix their own house.
>>>
>>> Seems I saw an article just recently that only 5% of the illegals
>>> surveyed had been unemployed at home.
>>> ===========
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Fair enough. But work that doesn't pay enough to keep you around
>>   
> 
> =======
> I sympathize with their problem -- but it is THEIR problem, not the 
> problem of the legal workers in the U.S.
> Except it is being made our problem.
> 
> Employers shipped out all the jobs they can to low / slave wage 
> countries and for those jobs they can't export they want to import the 
> cheap labor and they are paying our Congresscritters to do nothing but 
> talk and pretend they will stop it.
> 
> Ironically, the U.S. ships back people from China and Barbados and many 
> other places because they are classified as economic refugees ( not 
> fleeing communism ). The government claims they are only coming here for 
> economic reasons but it opens it's arms to the people coming across out 
> southern border for economic reasons and will often even state they are 
> only coming here to improve their lot in life.
> 
> Can you say hypocrisy boys and girls?
> ==========
> 
>> .
>>  
>>
>>>>> Bullcrap! Bullcrap! Bullcrap! If you did this, what kind of signal do
>>>>> you think this will send to those NOT breaking the law and jumping the
>>>>> line? Man think this through.
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>
>>>> I have, believe it or not. My deal is, I don't care if they're not
>>>>       
>>
>> white. I
>>  
>>
>>>> just want them to stop depressing wages. If they were legal workers,
>>>>       
>>
>> they
>>  
>>
>>>> wouldn't be depressing wages. They could unionize, refuse to work 
>>>> unpaid
>>>> overtime, file OSHA complaints, etc etc. That's my only issue with
>>>>       
>>
>> illegal
>>  
>>
>>>> immigration.
>>>>
>>>> Curt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>
>>> =========
>>> Very true. One solution is to grant instant citizenship at the border.
>>> Then employers couldn't brow beat them with threats of calling
>>>     
>>
>> Immigration.
>>  
>>
>>> That won't happen though, because business WANTS them to be illegal so
>>> they can be forced to work for low wages in crappy unsafe conditions to
>>> increase their profit.
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Well I don't want to grant instant citizenship either, realistically. But
>> it's a solution that would accomplish what I want to happen as regards
>> wages.
>>
>> Curt
>>
>>   
> 
> ========
> Have no fear, it will never happen because business wants workers it can 
> threaten and force to work in substandard conditions and for substandard 
> wages. The CEO's don't give a damn as long as they get their 
> multi-million dollar bonus and can live in the South of France or the 
> Caribbean or whereever in the lap of luxury.
> 
> They will get theirs and they don't give a damn who they hurt in the 
> process or if they destroy this country.
> 
> 
The going rate for illegals is $10 per hour cash, in this part of the 
State. Which is ironic in light of the $5.15 minimum wage, and part time 
work allowing an employer to avoid paying benefits. Why would someone 
work MacJobs when they can stand on the corner with the illegals and 
compete for a days work at $10 an hour?

-
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Free software  - Baxter Codeworks  www.baxcode.com
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"grandwazoo" <grand@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1155796879.608191@news.commspeed.net...
> >
> The going rate for illegals is $10 per hour cash, in this part of the
> State. Which is ironic in light of the $5.15 minimum wage, and part time
> work allowing an employer to avoid paying benefits. Why would someone
> work MacJobs when they can stand on the corner with the illegals and
> compete for a days work at $10 an hour?
>
Kids should take Spanish in high school - it will help them get a job.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:29:53 -0700, "Baxter"
<lbax02.spamguard@baxcode.com> wrote:

>-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Free software  - Baxter Codeworks  www.baxcode.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>"grandwazoo" <grand@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:1155796879.608191@news.commspeed.net...
>> >
>> The going rate for illegals is $10 per hour cash, in this part of the
>> State. Which is ironic in light of the $5.15 minimum wage, and part time
>> work allowing an employer to avoid paying benefits. Why would someone
>> work MacJobs when they can stand on the corner with the illegals and
>> compete for a days work at $10 an hour?
>>
>Kids should take Spanish in high school - it will help them get a job.

Kids should be given course in maintaining cultural identity. (Along
with self-defense and firearms training) Don't count on the US
government for anything.

will
>