🚀 go-pugleaf

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:Z_S9m.29971$ZN.18539@newsfe23.iad...
> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
> them?".
>
> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), 
> and while it is possible (see 
> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
>
> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
> ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
> by the process.
> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>
> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>
> Dave.
> -- 
> ================================================
> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
> http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
>
>

It done purely to give techs the shits when building proto's or fault 
finding.      :) 

David L. Jones wrote:
> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
> them?".
> 
> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), and 
> while it is possible (see 
> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
> 
> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
> ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
> by the process.
> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
> 
> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
> 
> Dave.
   Ahh..the caps could likewise be coated (and AFAIK they .are. coated 
prior to potting for leaded versions).
   Then, given that coating, they could be marked like the resistors you 
mentioned.
   BUT..that was "never" done so it will not be done (gotta stay in that 
rut...).

Dennis wrote:
> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:Z_S9m.29971$ZN.18539@newsfe23.iad...
>> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
>> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
>> them?".
>>
>> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), 
>> and while it is possible (see 
>> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
>> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
>>
>> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
>> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
>> ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
>> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
>> by the process.
>> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
>> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>>
>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>>
>> Dave.
>> -- 
>> ================================================
>> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
>> http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
>>
>>
> 
> It done purely to give techs the shits when building proto's or fault 
> finding.      :) 
> 
> 
   Try (automated) marking of 0402 or smaller caps...

"Robert Baer" <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote in message 
news:ttqdnac-5O96jPXXnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@posted.localnet...
> David L. Jones wrote:
>> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
>> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed 
>> on them?".
>>
>> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), 
>> and while it is possible (see 
>> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
>> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without 
>> markings.
>>
>> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
>> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) 
>> on ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
>> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties 
>> altered by the process.
>> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
>> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>>
>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>>
>> Dave.
>   Ahh..the caps could likewise be coated (and AFAIK they .are. coated 
> prior to potting for leaded versions).
>   Then, given that coating, they could be marked like the resistors you 
> mentioned.
>   BUT..that was "never" done so it will not be done (gotta stay in that 
> rut...).

I doult very much any manufacter would coat SMD caps as it would increase 
the height to capacitor sits above the board, increasing the mounted 
inductance, a crital factor when designing high frequecny boards. 
Manufactuers spend a lot of money trying to reduce this unwanted property.

see http://www.avx.co.il/docs/techinfo/licadesign.pdf
or 
http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kfbk3.nsf/vaFeedbackFAQ/D1A54E16FEC61B058525721E006EF53C/$file/Sun%20Paper%20on%20ESL%20&%20ESR.pdf
although these articles deal with via placement they discuss the need to 
reduce the size of the loop that current flows in, a loop that would be 
increased if a capacitor had an extra coating on it.

"Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au> wrote in message 
news:4a68395a$0$3253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Robert Baer" <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote in message 
> news:ttqdnac-5O96jPXXnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@posted.localnet...
>> David L. Jones wrote:
>>> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
>>> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed 
>>> on them?".
>>>
>>> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), 
>>> and while it is possible (see 
>>> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
>>> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without 
>>> markings.
>>>
>>> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
>>> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) 
>>> on ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
>>> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties 
>>> altered by the process.
>>> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
>>> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>>>
>>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>>>
>>> Dave.
>>   Ahh..the caps could likewise be coated (and AFAIK they .are. coated 
>> prior to potting for leaded versions).
>>   Then, given that coating, they could be marked like the resistors you 
>> mentioned.
>>   BUT..that was "never" done so it will not be done (gotta stay in that 
>> rut...).
>
> I doult very much any manufacter would coat SMD caps as it would increase 
> the height to capacitor sits above the board, increasing the mounted 
> inductance, a crital factor when designing high frequecny boards. 
> Manufactuers spend a lot of money trying to reduce this unwanted property.
>
> see http://www.avx.co.il/docs/techinfo/licadesign.pdf
> or 
> http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kfbk3.nsf/vaFeedbackFAQ/D1A54E16FEC61B058525721E006EF53C/$file/Sun%20Paper%20on%20ESL%20&%20ESR.pdf
> although these articles deal with via placement they discuss the need to 
> reduce the size of the loop that current flows in, a loop that would be 
> increased if a capacitor had an extra coating on it.
>
>

Coating or encapsulation? Coating could be insignificantly thin. 

"David L. Jones" wrote:
> 
> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on
> them?".
> 
> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), and
> while it is possible (see
> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you
> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
> 
> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on
> ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer
> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered
> by the process.
> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would
> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
> 
> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?


   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
cheaper suppliers were unmarked.  I have a javascript I wrote to let
production workers ID SMD caps.  Of course we were building equipment
for NASA, NOAA, the ESA and military, so they didn't mind the fraction
of a cent more per cap to pay for markings.

   I'll try to upload the zipped script files if you'd like to see them.


-- 
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
> ...
> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?

Money.

It's way too expensive to mark teeny tiny little parts that nobody's 
ever going to look at anyway - the reels are clearly marked, and they're
loaded into the stuffing machine, and that's the last human interaction
the parts will ever see.

If you're hand-prototyping, you'd either have to mark them yourself
or mark the tape carrier or bin or envelope where you're keeping them.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:24:22 +1000, Shaun wrote:
> "Robert Baer" <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote in message 

>>   Ahh..the caps could likewise be coated (and AFAIK they .are. coated
>> prior to potting for leaded versions).
>>   Then, given that coating, they could be marked like the resistors you
>> mentioned.
>>   BUT..that was "never" done so it will not be done (gotta stay in that
>> rut...).
> 
> I doult very much any manufacter would coat SMD caps as it would
> increase the height to capacitor sits above the board, increasing the
> mounted inductance, a crital factor when designing high frequecny boards. 

They'd also be a little hard to solder in. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

In article <pan.2009.07.23.19.06.53.738790@example.net>, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
>> ...
>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>
>Money.
>
>It's way too expensive to mark teeny tiny little parts that nobody's 
>ever going to look at anyway - the reels are clearly marked, and they're
>loaded into the stuffing machine, and that's the last human interaction
>the parts will ever see.
>
>If you're hand-prototyping, you'd either have to mark them yourself
>or mark the tape carrier or bin or envelope where you're keeping them.

I learned how to solder the little resistors, and that requires the microscope.
They still look small. The iron looks like a bat and the tweezers a claw, and
the little resistor looks like a speck.

I would need a stronger scope to read any lettering on it.
Some larger parts have little two letter codes on them and I don't even want to know what they mean.

greg

Rich Grise wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
>> ...
>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>
> Money.
>
> It's way too expensive to mark teeny tiny little parts that nobody's
> ever going to look at anyway - the reels are clearly marked, and
> they're loaded into the stuffing machine, and that's the last human
> interaction the parts will ever see.
>
> If you're hand-prototyping, you'd either have to mark them yourself
> or mark the tape carrier or bin or envelope where you're keeping them.

Then why do they mark the exact same size resistors?
Resistors are generally cheaper than caps, so it would make more sense not 
to mark the resistors to increase the margin, so it would be the other way 
around, if that's the real reason.

Dave.

-- 
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/ 

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:08:51 +1000, "Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au>
> wrote:
>
>>    Okay so I've got no idea why such an ink isn't used to directly
>> print to the capacitor,
>>
>> Shaun
>
> There are plenty of SMD chip cap makers that emblazon a value ID
> marking on their caps.

Can you provide links?

>  The fact is more likely that you are using a size of cap that does
> not allow such a marking. I would say that 0805 is the smallest size
> I have seen markings on.

No, the original person who asked the question specifically stated sizes as 
big as 1206.
So it has nothing to do with physical size.
Can't say I've seen the values ever printed on caps even larger than 1206.

The question is about whay it's common to mark SMD resistors, but not common 
to mark SMD caps.

Dave.
-- 
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/ 

In sci.electronics.design Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
>> ...
>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
> 
> Money.
> 
> It's way too expensive to mark teeny tiny little parts that nobody's 
> ever going to look at anyway - the reels are clearly marked, and they're
> loaded into the stuffing machine, and that's the last human interaction
> the parts will ever see.
> 
> If you're hand-prototyping, you'd either have to mark them yourself
> or mark the tape carrier or bin or envelope where you're keeping them.
> 
> Hope This Helps!

No. They _DO_ mark resistors and resistors are generally even cheaper than
capacitors.

---
******************************************************************
*  KSI@home    KOI8 Net  < >  The impossible we do immediately.  *
*  Las Vegas   NV, USA   < >  Miracles require 24-hour notice.   *
******************************************************************

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>so they didn't mind the fraction
>of a cent more per cap to pay for markings.


  Caps with markings did NOT have a higher price schedule, dipshit.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>cheaper suppliers were unmarked.

  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to the
point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:47:08 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>
>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to the
>point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.

Then why are they still there on resistors of the same size, DimBulb?

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>
>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.

What labour ?

geoff 

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:17:16 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Then why do they mark the exact same size resistors?
>Resistors are generally cheaper than caps, so it would make more sense not 
>to mark the resistors to increase the margin, so it would be the other way 
>around, if that's the real reason.
>
>Dave.
>
>-- 
  SMD resistors get a ceramic glaze coating over the applied resistance
medium.  It gets fired on.  The lettering is usually fired glaze as well.
The resistance medium is hygroscopic, so they have to seal it up.

  multilayer chip caps CANNOT be fired in an oven that way.  They barely
make it through the reflow process.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:23:00 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Can you provide links?

  Note the requisite that was declared. They are 0805 or larger.

  The absolute cheapest variety will not have them.  The higher end
varieties likely will.

 The customer pays for the cap substrate medium and its termination
method. The markings never were charged for from my recall.

David L. Jones wrote:
> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
> them?".
> 
> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), and 
> while it is possible (see 
> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
> 
> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
> ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
> by the process.
> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
> 
> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
> 
> Dave.

What I hate about these components, I am looking at 3 0805 bits, one is 
a resistor, the second is a cap, and I have no idea what the third is 
but they are the same colour.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:07:44 GMT, Sergey Kubushin <ksi@koi8.net> wrote:

>In sci.electronics.design Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>> 
>> Money.
>> 
>> It's way too expensive to mark teeny tiny little parts that nobody's 
>> ever going to look at anyway - the reels are clearly marked, and they're
>> loaded into the stuffing machine, and that's the last human interaction
>> the parts will ever see.
>> 
>> If you're hand-prototyping, you'd either have to mark them yourself
>> or mark the tape carrier or bin or envelope where you're keeping them.
>> 
>> Hope This Helps!
>
>No. They _DO_ mark resistors and resistors are generally even cheaper than
>capacitors.
>

  Learn to read, ditz!  Nobody was talking about resistors.  Christ! That
is even obvious from the title!

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:23:00 +1000, "David L. Jones"
> <altzone@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you provide links?
>
>  Note the requisite that was declared. They are 0805 or larger.

Yep, that's fine, you don't expect them on smaller ones.

>  The absolute cheapest variety will not have them.  The higher end
> varieties likely will.

Like I said, can you provide links?

Dave.

-- 
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:16:44 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:47:08 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
><OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>><mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>>cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>>
>>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to the
>>point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.
>
>Then why are they still there on resistors of the same size, DimBulb?


  Because resistors are fired glazed parts to seal the resistance medium
from moisture, and that can have legible letters included.  If chip caps
had an outer glaze or epoxy slab on them, lettering could easily be
added.  The industry has found better performance from uncoated MCCs, and
fire glazing is out of the question as the layer terminations are
thermally sensitive.

 The chip cap markings, even on the larger form factor parts, was a very
fuzzy, out of focus character set, beneath the actual first surface of
the mlcc.  Maybe laser etched or it is a very very thin ink.  Some were
surface marked, but most were submerged. On a smaller form factor, that
becomes very hard to see, and adds labor to inspect via the marking, and
it does become harder to manufacture as well, causing more fab failures
before they even get going.

  Visual comparison with the reel is the most common and preferred method
for already installed parts. Visual comparison and testing for loose
parts.  Some can be ID'd by their 'color', which *can* indicate substrate
choice,which should be easy to note on the reel info label.  When certain
caps are a buck each (microwave SMD chip caps), and others are fractions
of a penny (El Cheapo Browno), one wants to be sure that one places the
right part in the right locations.

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:07:44 GMT, Sergey Kubushin <ksi@koi8.net>
> wrote:
>
>> In sci.electronics.design Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have
>>>> markings?
>>>
>>> Money.
>>>
>>> It's way too expensive to mark teeny tiny little parts that nobody's
>>> ever going to look at anyway - the reels are clearly marked, and
>>> they're loaded into the stuffing machine, and that's the last human
>>> interaction the parts will ever see.
>>>
>>> If you're hand-prototyping, you'd either have to mark them yourself
>>> or mark the tape carrier or bin or envelope where you're keeping
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Hope This Helps!
>>
>> No. They _DO_ mark resistors and resistors are generally even
>> cheaper than capacitors.
>>
>  Learn to read, ditz!  Nobody was talking about resistors.  Christ!
> That is even obvious from the title!

Umm, yes it's about resistors too, it was mentioned in my very first post.
My original question is why don't they mark SMD capacitors, when it's very 
common to mark the same size SMD resistors.
So Sergey's remark is perfectly valid. It's common to mark cheap resistors, 
but it's not common to mark more expensive capacitors of the same size - 
why?
It's clearly not about cost, as Rich mentioned.
I'm assuming the reason is technical/process related, and not historical 
etc, but I'm not sure, so that's why I  asked.

Dave.

-- 
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>
>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.

Why do resistors of the same size still commonly have the markings then?
It's not about the size, we are talking 1206/0805 and other large sizes 
here.
Markings on these size caps are not common (some would say rare), and it's 
*always* been that way.
The question is why?...

Dave.

-- 
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:19:18 +1200, "geoff" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz>
wrote:

>Archimedes' Lever wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>>
>>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
>> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.
>
>What labour ?
>
>geoff 
>
  Now, in the modern facility, post assembly inspection doesn't really
even happen any more as it relates to part values.  Most post reflow
inspection is for locating any tombstoned or pad shifted parts.

  BGA requires X-ray to inspect.

  There was a time, however, when a post process inspector would actually
examine the discreet parts on an assembly, and verify the value of parts.
This was particularly true of a first article assembly, prior to a
production run.

  Now that form factors are so small, actual part value verification on
assemblies is rare.  It is also more difficult. Even with the
magnification aids.

  And the likelihood that a test or repair technician would know how to
read a chip cap with anything other than a meter is very, very close to
nil.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, "David L. Jones"
<altzone@gmail.com> wrote:

>An interesting question was posted on another forum:
>"can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
>them?".
>
>My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), and 
>while it is possible (see 
>http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
>basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
>
>It got me to thinking, why is it so?
>My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
>ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
>construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
>by the process.
>As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
>allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>
>Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>
>Dave.

Simple, because they have gotten away with it for 30 years.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:08:51 +1000, "Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au>
wrote:

>
>"Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote in message 
>news:r1Y9m.18834$eS5.11501@newsfe25.iad...
>> "Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au> wrote in message 
>> news:4a684505$0$2227$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> It might be possible but I can't think of any non-conductive material 
>>> that could be layered thin enough and still go through a wave solder 
>>> machine.
>>
>> Um, so what about the stuff they put on resistors?
>>
>> Ink is incredibly thin stuff.
>>
>    I didn't think an ink would withstand the the temperature (thinking 
>along the lines of markings either being etchings or printed then 
>encapsulated) but I have found an ink that could withstand the temperature, 
>can even be used on ceramic materials, only problem is it has the be air 
>brush stenciled, manufacture states it's not suitable for stamp or roller 
>application.
>    Okay so I've got no idea why such an ink isn't used to directly print to 
>the capacitor,
>
>Shaun 
>

Come to think of it, wave solder is more of a through hole process.
The modern process is reflow.  Wave solder does not pay well with SMD
parts on both sides, reflow does.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:06:12 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Archimedes' Lever wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>>
>>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
>> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.
>
>Why do resistors of the same size still commonly have the markings then?
>It's not about the size, we are talking 1206/0805 and other large sizes 
>here.
>Markings on these size caps are not common (some would say rare), and it's 
>*always* been that way.
>The question is why?...
>
>Dave.

  It maybe has "always been that way" with el cheapo brands, but I used
to do pre-reflow inspection (post pick and place), and have loaded the
cassettes into the picker placer, and have loaded the reels into the
cassettes and have programmed the PCB into it... yada yada yada...

  I have seen a lot of caps that were marked, so you are either using
cheap parts and always have, or your "always has" only amounts to a year
or two, since they now seldom do it.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:06:12 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Archimedes' Lever wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>>
>>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
>> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.
>
>Why do resistors of the same size still commonly have the markings then?
>It's not about the size, we are talking 1206/0805 and other large sizes 
>here.
>Markings on these size caps are not common (some would say rare), and it's 
>*always* been that way.
>The question is why?...
>
>Dave.

  I like obsolete marking systems.

http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/markings.html

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:11:15 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:59:19 +1000, "David L. Jones"
><altzone@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>An interesting question was posted on another forum:
>>"can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
>>them?".
>>
>>My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), and 
>>while it is possible (see 
>>http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
>>basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
>>
>>It got me to thinking, why is it so?
>>My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
>>ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
>>construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
>>by the process.
>>As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
>>allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>>
>>Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>>
>>Dave.
>
>Simple, because they have gotten away with it for 30 years.


  Six at most.  When I inspected assemblies, many years ago (14?), they
were there, and when I designed assemblies more recently, I began to see
them disappearing.

  Form factor is the reason, and lack of true need, IMO.

  The first thing I do to deck out my proto bench is make out about 300
pcs each of every cap and resistor (and most all tape and reel parts
other than big chips)we have in stock in bulk.  Little 10 or 20 pc strips
fit real nice in a parts cabinet drawer.  Smaller samples of those we
have less counts of, of course. Marking the P/N and or value on the back
and or front with a sharpie IDs each strip just fine.

  That way, future ID through visual comparison is also capable, as the
parts are in my kit cabinet to compare with.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:15:26 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:08:51 +1000, "Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote in message 
>>news:r1Y9m.18834$eS5.11501@newsfe25.iad...
>>> "Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au> wrote in message 
>>> news:4a684505$0$2227$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>> It might be possible but I can't think of any non-conductive material 
>>>> that could be layered thin enough and still go through a wave solder 
>>>> machine.
>>>
>>> Um, so what about the stuff they put on resistors?
>>>
>>> Ink is incredibly thin stuff.
>>>
>>    I didn't think an ink would withstand the the temperature (thinking 
>>along the lines of markings either being etchings or printed then 
>>encapsulated) but I have found an ink that could withstand the temperature, 
>>can even be used on ceramic materials, only problem is it has the be air 
>>brush stenciled, manufacture states it's not suitable for stamp or roller 
>>application.
>>    Okay so I've got no idea why such an ink isn't used to directly print to 
>>the capacitor,
>>
>>Shaun 
>>
>
>Come to think of it, wave solder is more of a through hole process.
>The modern process is reflow.  Wave solder does not pay well with SMD
>parts on both sides, reflow does.

  Originally, SMD parts were used along with thru hole. The "solder
side", as it was called, had thermal cure glue at all the SMD locations,
and the SMD parts get placed  with no solder paste at all, and then the
curing oven bakes them in place. Then the boards went to a push line or
auto-inserter and the thru hole parts get added, being careful with the
solder side attached-but-not-yet-soldered parts.  During wave solder, the
PCB gets passed over a flux bubbler.  Next thing you know, the thru hole
and the bottom side SMD parts are soldered.

From "Ceramic Commercial-Off-The-Shelf Surface Mount Capacitors (COTS)" from 
Kemet:


"Marking
These chips are supplied unmarked. If required, they can be laser-marked as 
an extra cost option. Details on the
marking format are included in KEMET Surface Mount Catalog F3102." 

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:03:11 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
> ...
> Umm, yes it's about resistors too, it was mentioned in my very first post.
> My original question is why don't they mark SMD capacitors, when it's very 
> common to mark the same size SMD resistors.
> So Sergey's remark is perfectly valid. It's common to mark cheap resistors, 
> but it's not common to mark more expensive capacitors of the same size - 
> why?
> It's clearly not about cost, as Rich mentioned.

OK, I'll take the oops on that one. 

Thanks,
Rich

In sci.electronics.design Archimedes' Lever <OneBigLever@infiniteseries.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:06:12 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>Archimedes' Lever wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>>>
>>>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
>>> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.
>>
>>Why do resistors of the same size still commonly have the markings then?
>>It's not about the size, we are talking 1206/0805 and other large sizes 
>>here.
>>Markings on these size caps are not common (some would say rare), and it's 
>>*always* been that way.
>>The question is why?...
>>
>>Dave.
> 
>   It maybe has "always been that way" with el cheapo brands, but I used
> to do pre-reflow inspection (post pick and place), and have loaded the
> cassettes into the picker placer, and have loaded the reels into the
> cassettes and have programmed the PCB into it... yada yada yada...
> 
>   I have seen a lot of caps that were marked, so you are either using
> cheap parts and always have, or your "always has" only amounts to a year
> or two, since they now seldom do it.

Can you poin us at not-so-cheap marked SMD capacitors so I would always use
those in my projects? I don't care if they twice the price of those unmarked
cheap ones...

---
******************************************************************
*  KSI@home    KOI8 Net  < >  The impossible we do immediately.  *
*  Las Vegas   NV, USA   < >  Miracles require 24-hour notice.   *
******************************************************************

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:50:51 GMT, Sergey Kubushin <ksi@koi8.net> wrote:

>In sci.electronics.design Archimedes' Lever <OneBigLever@infiniteseries.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:06:12 +1000, "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Archimedes' Lever wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:58:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>>>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   Most of what we used were marked with a two character code.  The
>>>>> cheaper suppliers were unmarked.
>>>>
>>>>  Wrong again.  Markings fell out of vogue as part size decreased to
>>>> the point where it was labor intensive to even examine the marking.
>>>
>>>Why do resistors of the same size still commonly have the markings then?
>>>It's not about the size, we are talking 1206/0805 and other large sizes 
>>>here.
>>>Markings on these size caps are not common (some would say rare), and it's 
>>>*always* been that way.
>>>The question is why?...
>>>
>>>Dave.
>> 
>>   It maybe has "always been that way" with el cheapo brands, but I used
>> to do pre-reflow inspection (post pick and place), and have loaded the
>> cassettes into the picker placer, and have loaded the reels into the
>> cassettes and have programmed the PCB into it... yada yada yada...
>> 
>>   I have seen a lot of caps that were marked, so you are either using
>> cheap parts and always have, or your "always has" only amounts to a year
>> or two, since they now seldom do it.
>
>Can you poin us at not-so-cheap marked SMD capacitors so I would always use
>those in my projects? I don't care if they twice the price of those unmarked
>cheap ones...

Well, looking at some bog-standard 0805 0.1 uF 16V ceramic caps
available from Digikey, only Kemet mentions even optional marking (as E
noted above). No mention at all, that I saw, in the datasheets for
Panasonic or Murata or Yageo or Johanson. Must be that those are all "el
cheapo" brands, I suppose.

-- 
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:30:06 GMT, "E" <a@b.c> wrote:

>From "Ceramic Commercial-Off-The-Shelf Surface Mount Capacitors (COTS)" from 
>Kemet:
>
>
>"Marking
>These chips are supplied unmarked. If required, they can be laser-marked as 
>an extra cost option. Details on the
>marking format are included in KEMET Surface Mount Catalog F3102." 
>

 That is a KEMET  LASER MARKING option.

 Do you really think that all cap makers follow the same business model
as Kemet?

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:32:48 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:03:11 +1000, David L. Jones wrote:
>> ...
>> Umm, yes it's about resistors too, it was mentioned in my very first post.
>> My original question is why don't they mark SMD capacitors, when it's very 
>> common to mark the same size SMD resistors.
>> So Sergey's remark is perfectly valid. It's common to mark cheap resistors, 
>> but it's not common to mark more expensive capacitors of the same size - 
>> why?
>> It's clearly not about cost, as Rich mentioned.
>
>OK, I'll take the oops on that one. 
>
>Thanks,
>Rich

 I do know that resistors are far easier to emblazon letters onto than a
ceramic cap is.

 Ten glazed caps go in as one value, and come out as ten different
values.

  Lasers cost more than cheap glaze and ovens?

  Sure it is also about cost.  Not only was marking them hard when they
did do it, but now that they are physically smaller, it would cost
considerably more to mark them legibly now than it used to.  They would
have to use a tighter focus laser, for starters, as the res of the old
lasers is likely to low for the tinyer <sic> lettering.

Dennis wrote:
> "David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:Z_S9m.29971$ZN.18539@newsfe23.iad...
>> An interesting question was posted on another forum:
>> "can you get (ceramic) SMD caps (1206,0805 etc) with the values printed on 
>> them?".
>>
>> My first response was that I've very rarely seen this (like maybe once), 
>> and while it is possible (see 
>> http://www.synrad.com/search_apps/application_briefs/117-2.htm), you 
>> basically can't get labeled ones, they are almost always without markings.
>>
>> It got me to thinking, why is it so?
>> My guess would be that it's due to the surface finish (or lack thereof) on 
>> ceramic capacitors, and/or the delicate nature of their multi-layer 
>> construction means they could be more easily damaged or properties altered 
>> by the process.
>> As opposed to most SMD resistors that have a coating on them which would 
>> allow for easy and accurate printing using various technologies.
>>
>> Any know the real reason(s) why ceramic SMD caps don't have markings?
>>
>> Dave.
>> -- 
>> ================================================
>> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
>> http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/
>>
>>
> 
> It done purely to give techs the shits when building proto's or fault 
> finding.      :) 

LOL. Ain't that the truth.

-- 
    W
  . | ,. w ,   "Some people are alive only because
   \|/  \|/     it is illegal to kill them."    Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message 
news:jopg655fbqaa0s6opkhlnt88cbq25mlij3@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:14:18 +1000, "Shaun" <not.today@go.away.au> wrote:
>
>>> Coating or encapsulation? Coating could be insignificantly thin.
>>It might be possible but I can't think of any non-conductive material 
>>that
>>could be layered thin enough and still go through a wave solder machine.
>>
> chip caps are bare.  That is why they are hygroscopic too.



Bullshit, if you believe the jerks in this NG your business won't go very 
far.  If the part is too small to label, then how can you label it?  That's 
the real reason.  It's not because of it's too cheap.  Another wrong 
interpretation of the Rednecks.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:43:09 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> It done purely to give techs the shits when building proto's or fault 
>> finding.      :) 
>
>LOL. Ain't that the truth.


 Bullshit.  Any proto tech worth his salt would be intimately familiar
with the shape, size, color, etc. of each and ANY unmarked components,
and would be sure to place them correctly.  ALL of them.  So ANY
troubleshooting procedure would include knowing the pcb was built right.

  So, ALL values should be known, and any circuit probing should have
known expectations.

  So, if he can't keep that triviality together, he has no business
building protos.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:50:08 -0700, "Richardson" <member@newsguy.com>
wrote:

>
>Bullshit, if you believe the jerks in this NG your business won't go very 
>far.  If the part is too small to label, then how can you label it?  That's 
>the real reason.  It's not because of it's too cheap.  Another wrong 
>interpretation of the Rednecks.

  You're a goddamned idiot. IF you had enough brains to read the ENTIRE
thread, you would know that we are talking about 0805 and larger form
factors.

  Since you are a total retard from the get go, however, you are clueless
every time you post.

  They do not do it because it saves several manufacturing process steps,
idiot.  THAT IS COST.  Go the fuck away, idiot.

"VioletaPachydermata" <PurpleElephant@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote 
in message news:1ghm65h4apq6sh4gnscfo54dpoc8adserp@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:43:09 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> It done purely to give techs the shits when building proto's or fault
>>> finding.      :)
>>
>>LOL. Ain't that the truth.
>
>
> Bullshit.  Any proto tech worth his salt would be intimately familiar
> with the shape, size, color, etc. of each and ANY unmarked components,
> and would be sure to place them correctly.  ALL of them.  So ANY
> troubleshooting procedure would include knowing the pcb was built right.
>
>  So, ALL values should be known, and any circuit probing should have
> known expectations.
>
>  So, if he can't keep that triviality together, he has no business
> building protos.



Ah, at last we meet Phils sister! 

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:04:31 +0800, "Polyp" <polyp@everywhere.com>
wrote:

>
>"VioletaPachydermata" <PurpleElephant@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote 
>in message news:1ghm65h4apq6sh4gnscfo54dpoc8adserp@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:43:09 +1000, Bob Larter <bobbylarter@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> It done purely to give techs the shits when building proto's or fault
>>>> finding.      :)
>>>
>>>LOL. Ain't that the truth.
>>
>>
>> Bullshit.  Any proto tech worth his salt would be intimately familiar
>> with the shape, size, color, etc. of each and ANY unmarked components,
>> and would be sure to place them correctly.  ALL of them.  So ANY
>> troubleshooting procedure would include knowing the pcb was built right.
>>
>>  So, ALL values should be known, and any circuit probing should have
>> known expectations.
>>
>>  So, if he can't keep that triviality together, he has no business
>> building protos.
>
>
>
>Ah, at last we meet Phils sister! 
>

At least!  NymNoNuts assumes her proper gender ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

Jim Thompson wrote:
> 
> At least!  NymNoNuts assumes her proper gender ;-)


   Then you've missed:


Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dorothy@notinkansas.org>
LargeMarge <LargeMarge@thetentwoposition.org>
ValleyGirl <LuvYerNailz@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>


-- 
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:46:18 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> 
>> At least!  NymNoNuts assumes her proper gender ;-)
>
>
>   Then you've missed:
>
>
>Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dorothy@notinkansas.org>
>LargeMarge <LargeMarge@thetentwoposition.org>
>ValleyGirl <LuvYerNailz@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>

I'm forgetful ;-)  I do now remember ValleyGirl.  My apologies... I
only see follow-ups to NymNoNuts occasionally as I do my (roughly)
weekly filter checks :-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

Jim Thompson wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:46:18 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Jim Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >> At least!  NymNoNuts assumes her proper gender ;-)
> >
> >
> >   Then you've missed:
> >
> >
> >Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dorothy@notinkansas.org>
> >LargeMarge <LargeMarge@thetentwoposition.org>
> >ValleyGirl <LuvYerNailz@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>
> 
> I'm forgetful ;-)  I do now remember ValleyGirl.  My apologies... I
> only see follow-ups to NymNoNuts occasionally as I do my (roughly)
> weekly filter checks :-)
> 





		THE DIMBULB SCORECARD�

Abbey Somebody <abnormal@castlefrankenstein.org>
AnimalMagic <AnimalMagic@petersbackyard.org>
Archimedes' Lever <OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org>
AwlSome Auger <AwlSomeAuger@BuyOneGetOneFree.org>
Bart! <B@rt_The_Sheriff_Is_A_Nig**!.org>
Bungalow Bill <BugalowBill@AbbeyRoad.UKCOM>
Capt. Cave Man <ItIsSoEasyACaveManCanDoIt@upyers.org>
ChairmanOfTheBored <RUBored@crackasmile.org>
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
<theslipperman@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Corbomite Carrie <Corbomite@maneuver.org>

DarkMatter <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
DarkSucker <DarkSucker@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Do I really need to say? <rael@thescree.org>
Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dorothy@notinkansas.org>
Dr. Heywood R. Floyd <Heywood@thebarattheendofthemonolith.org>
FatBytestard <FatBytestard@somewheronyourharddrive.org>
FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor <FunkShunPoignter@yermomma.org>
FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor <FunkShunPointer@yermomma.org>
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
<GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement@youdontknowjack.org>
Hattori Hanzo <OutintheSnow@billsbackyard.org>

Herbert John \Jackie\" Gleason" <BufordTJustice@Texarkanacops.gov>
HiggsField <higgdfield@whutthableapduyoukno.org>
IAmTheSlime <TheSlimeFromYourVideo@oozingacrossyourlivingroomfloor.org>
ItsASecretDummy <secretasianman@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Jupiter Jaq <JupiterJaq@BuyOneGetOneFree.org>
Kai <kai@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
LargeMarge <LargeMarge@thetentwoposition.org>
life imitates life <pasticcio@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
MadManMoon <TheWholePlanetIsMine@hereandnow.org>
MakeNoAttemptToAdjustYourSet <DoNotAttemptToAdjustYourSet@anytime.org>

MassiveProng@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org
<MassiveProng@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Mr.Eko <ekointhedirt@lostisland.org>
Mr. Haney <mrhaney@thebarattheendofthefarmroad.org>
Mycelium <myceliumgrows@underyourshrooms.org>
Neanderthal <dance@gottafindawomanrighton.org>
Phat Bytestard <PhatBytestard@getinmahharddrive.org>
RoyLFuchs <RoyLFuchs@urfargingicehole.org>
scorpius
<scorpius@thewormholethatemptiesontheothersideoftheuniverse.org>
SkyPilot <somewhere@theedgeofspace.org>
SomeKindOfWonderful
<SomeKindOfWonderful@allthegirlsintheworldbeware.org>

SoothSayer <SaySooth@TheMonastery.org>
Spurious Response <SpuriousResponse@cleansignal.org>
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarathustra@thusspoke.org>
Sum Ting Wong <SumTingWong@thebarattheendoftheVenusianLightnigBolt.org>
Sum Ting Wong
<SumTingWong@thebarattheendoftheVenusianLightnigBoltmonolith.org>
SuspendedInGaffa <suspendedingaffa@kateshouse.org>
The Great Attractor
<SuperM@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalaxy.org>
TheGlimmerMan <justaglimmer@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
TheKraken <ReachUpandSuckYouDowntotheDepths@yup.org>
The Last Mimsy <mimsy@TheOtherSideoftheLookingGlass.org>

TheQuickBrownFox <thequickbrownfox@overthelazydog.org>
TutAmongUs@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org
<TutAmongUs@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
UltimatePatriot <UltimatePatriot@thebestcountry.org>
UpGrade <UpGrade@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
ValleyGirl <LuvYerNailz@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>
VioletaPachydermata <PurpleElephant@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
WallyWallWhackr <wallywallwhackr@thematrixattheendofthemushroomstem.org>










-- 
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:16:44 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>
>At least!  NymNoNuts assumes her proper gender ;-)
>
>                                        ...Jim Thompson


  There is no gender indicated, you retarded twit.

  Both terms are Latin.

  Violet pachyderm is a colored elephant.

  Violet Ditzybitch is a person's name. They are two different things.

  One is an animal, the other is your daughter.

  But you have to be human to get such things.  You do not qualify.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:56:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:46:18 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> 
>>> At least!  NymNoNuts assumes her proper gender ;-)
>>
>>
>>   Then you've missed:
>>
>>
>>Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dorothy@notinkansas.org>
>>LargeMarge <LargeMarge@thetentwoposition.org>
>>ValleyGirl <LuvYerNailz@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>
>
>I'm forgetful ;-)  I do now remember ValleyGirl.  My apologies... I
>only see follow-ups to NymNoNuts occasionally as I do my (roughly)
>weekly filter checks :-)
>
>                                        ...Jim Thompson


  I find it quite fitting that you waste your personal time futzing with
your retarded filters.  Utterly hilarious.

 Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:04:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>SCORECARD�

  You're an idiot, and you have a copyright on exactly ZERO trademarks,
you retarded fuck.

  Let that damned jaw infection kill you already!  Preferrably in
excruciating pain.

 hahahahah...  You're such a pathetic joke.

lurch wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:04:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >SCORECARD�
> 
>   You're an idiot, and you have a copyright on exactly ZERO trademarks,
> you retarded fuck.
> 
>   Let that damned jaw infection kill you already!  Preferrably in
> excruciating pain.
> 
>  hahahahah...  You're such a pathetic joke.


   Lyrch had something you don't.  Personality.

   Get lost, dimbitch.


-- 
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!