Thread View: alt.support.grief
12 messages
12 total messages
Started by JMP
Thu, 04 May 2000 00:00
help needed
Author: JMP
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:00
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:00
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Hi! My name is Jacky, i am 53, French, and female, a multilingual executive assistant. You can answer me in French, English and German. Could psychiatrist or psychollogist help me with the problems my friend is facing? His behaviour is bringing me into a severe depression and as i love him so dearly i should like to understand what is happening to him, in order both to be able to help him out of it if this is possible and/or to protect me. No specialist in France is willing to explain me what it is; i can't find psychology/psychiatry books relating to this kind of disorder. i thin it is some sort of neurosis, but i am tapping in the dark. He ist 45, German, living in Paris for the time being. He is still married, left his wife a few weeks ago and has been living mostly in hotels since that time. 3 weeks ago he came to me one night at 3:00 am and left a fortnight later without any explanation. He just "could not bear it anymore". Nothing special had happened in the meantime and i had had hope that the worst was over, that he was opening himself to others, that we would be able to make plans for the future; he felt so well (told me so). What makes the whole thing more difficult is that we are working together. So i can find no peace, either at home or in the office. He comes from the former GDR and was imprisoned there for political reasons before being expelled to West Germany for 15 years or so. This may partly be an explanation for his behaviour (sequels of him being brought up in a Communist country). He was stamped there as asocial.......... We know what it meant in these countries at that time....... Whether it is what being asocial in western countries means, i do not know.. He does not speak much, is completely introverted. He was brought up by his mother almost alone and married a completely introverted woman; with both of them as with his son later he used to live within an atmosphere of uninterrupted mutual manipulation and blackmail. As i noticed that, i told him that i wanted none of this for us, but on the contrary a healthy relationship in our couple and he agreed. It was completely new to him and he felt very much attracted by this kind of honest relationship. Can it be that it is too difficult for him to leave his old habits of relating to others? Every problem in his family was, until 97, carefully denied. Some frightening events as well as our love brought him to want to try and be open. He is working at this, is very depressive since then, as his son and wife of course do not want him to change (i know that it is typical, when a family has been "functioning" in a complete different way). He is also very slow in his progress. He refuses any help from me, wants to achieve everything alone. He is often treating me very badly offering no explanation: he does not understand, he does not see anything wrong in his worst deeds. I do not recognize him anymore. As I met him for now 3 years he seemed to be ok. We fell in love and I thought it was a question of a year or so for him to solve his family problems correctly, before we could begin living together. He succeeded in coming to work in France in order to be with me. So he said at the time (October 98). But he came with his wife and son (rather disconcerting!!). He is particularly slow in making any decisions and implying them, as far as his personal life is concerned. In his professional life however he is very brilliant, particularly in the technical field (telecommunications and computers), highly intelligent and appreciated by everybody. He has developed a "normal" behaviour for the office; but it is only superficial, there are no feelings or whatever behind. His son had important behavioural problems (which led to criminal procedures against him in Germany). From that time on (1998) my friend has been unable to have feelings. He seemed to have blocked everything within himself, in order to cope with this ordeal. He always remains coldhearted whatever happens, as far as others are concerned. For himself he is on the contrary very sensitive in private. He is currently seeing a German psychiatrist in Paris; it was rather difficult to find one ; i thought better for him to speak about his problems in his mother language. Unfortunately it is not the best physician, being one of the kind for bored idle ladies looking for something to do in the afternoon (very expensive, otherwise soft and ineffective). He demonstrated his inability with my friend's son last year; it was a complete mess. My friend seems to suffer very much; he made some very thin progress within one year which led him to the separation from his wife. For the time being, after he left me on Easter Monday, he disappeared and i ignore to this day his whereabouts (no phone call, no mail). Was anyone already confronted to this kind of disorder? Can it be a sort of PTSD? What can i do? Are there any books on this subject i could read? Is there a special newsgroup for that kind of illness? I must say I am the only one who thinks that he is ill, my friends and my GP all think he is playing a dirty play on me. But nobody has ever seen him or spoken to him. He was never long enough with me for a meeting with my friends. They are judging from my state of depression. I was completely healthy as i met him, with no particular problem. Please, help, i am sometimes considering suicide as he regularly comes back to me and leaves me destroyed each time. I am no masochist, i really love him, but i want to live. All the best and thanks in advance for your help Jacky
Re: help needed
Author: kipco
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:00
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:00
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Hi Jackie! While I have no background to evaluate your friend and am not a professional in medicine or social science, I do have some life experiences which might qualify me to comment on the following: > I must say I am the only one who thinks that he is ill, my friends and my GP > all think he is playing a dirty > play on me. But nobody has ever seen him or spoken to him. He was never long > enough with me for a meeting with my friends. They are judging from my state of depression. I was completely healthy as i met him, with no particular problem. I have said the same things about myself and found myself in a downward spiral of confusion about myself, my friends and someone significant in my life ... more than once. I found out that I had never established reliable boundaries for myself; the consequences were disasterous. :/ > Please, help, i am sometimes considering suicide as he regularly comes back > to me and leaves me destroyed each time. I am no masochist, i really love > him, but i want to live. Someone said recently that love is a process. In this particular case, you seem to be describing a masochistic process. Whether or not he decides to 'fix himself' (not to be fixed _by_ you, a psychiatrist, or a therapist) and to to seek help for himself is completely beyond your control. If he works on your sympathies to get you to help 'fix him', then the game starts again. All the above is only my observation, gleaned from entirely too much experience with disasterous (to me) relationships. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy
Re: help needed
Author: BJ&GJC
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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Jacky, its important to save yourself first before you even attempt to assist your friend. Believe in yourself and you have already identified your problems have been since you have been in a relationship with this male but because you are close to this a man with his problems he is subtly removing your strengths!! Do not take responsibility for his problems!! He is an adult who should have his own support mechanisms (ie wife and son) who I believe have supported each other over the years even though it sounds quiet a dysfunctional family. Jacky please get help for your depression once that is under control you will be able to assist your friend more if you feel you can. You may have changed your mind by then and may not want that relationship. Whatever take care cheers Barb
Re: help needed
Author: JMP
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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Thanks for your answer, Barb, I am home for the time being and the support I am getting from you all helps me a lot. I am just frightened at the first day we will meet again at the office. That is where I began this nervous breakdown for 2 weeks now. I try not to think about it too much in advance. All the best and peace be with you too. Jacky BJ&GJC <cookie4@primus.com.au> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 391531b0@news.iprimus.com.au... > Jacky, > its important to save yourself first before you even attempt to assist your > friend. > Believe in yourself and you have already identified your problems have been > since you have been in a relationship with this male but because you are > close to this a man with his problems he is subtly removing your strengths!! > > Do not take responsibility for his problems!! He is an adult who should have > his own support mechanisms (ie wife and son) who I believe have supported > each other over the years even though it sounds quiet a dysfunctional > family. > > Jacky please get help for your depression once that is under control you > will be able to assist your friend more if you feel you can. You may have > changed your mind by then and may not want that relationship. > Whatever take care > cheers Barb > > >
Re: help needed
Author: Rhydent
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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Salut, Il y a le facteur de diff�rence d'�ge entre vous deux qui pourra expliquer le fait que votre ami ne semble pas certain si la relation entre vous deux lui convient, Il vous revient, et vous quitte aussi t�t. J'ai v�cu le m�me dileme dans le pass�, aujourd'hui, je consid�re que tomber en amour avec un femme plus �g�e comme �tant dans la cat�gorie des amours impossibles, alors j'essaye m�me pas. J'avoue que la difference d'�ge entre vous n'est pas �norme, mais s'a pourra �tre une explication. Qunad je veux effacer de ma m�moire des ex-partenaires, je d�truit tout ce qui vient d'eux, de plus je ne leurs donne plus la chance de revenir dans ma vie, pour ne pas recommencer le cycle douleureux.... Bonne chance JMP a �crit :
Re: help needed
Author: Michele Goff
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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Rhydent, En Anglais, s'il vous plait? Nous parlons en Anglais. Merci, Michele On Sun, 07 May 2000 17:51:22 GMT, Rhydent <ONMAPS@large.com> wrote: >Salut, > >Il y a le facteur de diff�rence d'�ge entre vous deux qui pourra expliquer >le fait que votre ami ne semble pas certain si la relation entre vous deux >lui convient, Il vous revient, et vous quitte aussi t�t. > >J'ai v�cu le m�me dileme dans le pass�, aujourd'hui, je consid�re >que tomber en amour avec un femme plus �g�e comme �tant >dans la cat�gorie des amours impossibles, alors j'essaye m�me pas. >J'avoue que la difference d'�ge entre vous n'est pas �norme, mais >s'a pourra �tre une explication. > >Qunad je veux effacer de ma m�moire des ex-partenaires, je d�truit tout ce qui >vient d'eux, de plus je ne leurs donne plus la chance de revenir dans ma vie, >pour ne pas recommencer le cycle douleureux.... > >Bonne chance > > >JMP a �crit : >
Re: help needed
Author: JMP
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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Hi! Merci pour votre r�ponse. Il semble en fait qu'il soit atteint de BPD, d� � des traumatismes r�p�t�s, puisqu'il a �t� prisonnier politique dans un pays totalitaire. D'autre part, m�me si je voulais d�truire tout ce qui vient de lui, je ne pourrais pas d�truire le fait que nous travaillons ensemble, dans le m�me service et que je ne peux pas changer cela, � moins d'accepter de perdre mon travail !!! Peace be with you Rhydent <ONMAPS@large.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 3915AD4C.B1CD58CA@large.com... > Salut, > > Il y a le facteur de diff�rence d'�ge entre vous deux qui pourra expliquer > le fait que votre ami ne semble pas certain si la relation entre vous deux > lui convient. Il vous revient, et vous quitte aussit�t. > > J'ai v�cu le m�me dilemme dans le pass�, aujourd'hui, je consid�re > tomber en amour avec un femme plus �g�e comme �tant > dans la cat�gorie des amours impossibles, alors je n'essaie m�me pas. > J'avoue que la diff�rence d'�ge entre vous n'est pas �norme, mais > �a pourrait �tre une explication. > > Quand je veux effacer de ma m�moire des ex-partenaires, je d�truis tout ce qui > vient d'eux, de plus je ne leur donne plus la chance de revenir dans ma vie, > pour ne pas recommencer le cycle douloureux.... > > Bonne chance > JMP a �crit :
Re: help needed
Author: JMP
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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Michele, Thanks but the language does not matter to me. I told in my mail that it was possible to answer me in French, English, and German. Rhydent, it is all right as far as I am concerned. Jacky Michele Goff <arianne@HiWAAY.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 3915b4fe.20539771@news.HiWAAY.net... > Rhydent, > > En Anglais, s'il vous plait? Nous parlons en Anglais. > > Merci, > > Michele > > On Sun, 07 May 2000 17:51:22 GMT, Rhydent <ONMAPS@large.com> wrote: > > >Salut, > > > >Il y a le facteur de diff�rence d'�ge entre vous deux qui pourra expliquer > >le fait que votre ami ne semble pas certain si la relation entre vous deux > >lui convient, Il vous revient, et vous quitte aussi t�t. > > > >J'ai v�cu le m�me dileme dans le pass�, aujourd'hui, je consid�re > >que tomber en amour avec un femme plus �g�e comme �tant > >dans la cat�gorie des amours impossibles, alors j'essaye m�me pas. > >J'avoue que la difference d'�ge entre vous n'est pas �norme, mais > >s'a pourra �tre une explication. > > > >Qunad je veux effacer de ma m�moire des ex-partenaires, je d�truit tout ce qui > >vient d'eux, de plus je ne leurs donne plus la chance de revenir dans ma vie, > >pour ne pas recommencer le cycle douleureux.... > > > >Bonne chance > > > > > >JMP a �crit : > > >
Re: help needed
Author: Michele Goff
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:00
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I'm sorry, I'm sorry, JMP. I didn't mean to butt in. Forgive me? Michele On Sun, 7 May 2000 23:08:29 +0200, "JMP" <pastelle@freesurf.fr> wrote: >Michele, > >Thanks but the language does not matter to me. I told in my mail that it was >possible to answer me in French, >English, and German. > >Rhydent, it is all right as far as I am concerned. > >Jacky >Michele Goff <arianne@HiWAAY.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: >3915b4fe.20539771@news.HiWAAY.net... >> Rhydent, >> >> En Anglais, s'il vous plait? Nous parlons en Anglais. >> >> Merci, >> >> Michele >> >> On Sun, 07 May 2000 17:51:22 GMT, Rhydent <ONMAPS@large.com> wrote: >> >> >Salut, >> > >> >Il y a le facteur de diff�rence d'�ge entre vous deux qui pourra >expliquer >> >le fait que votre ami ne semble pas certain si la relation entre vous >deux >> >lui convient, Il vous revient, et vous quitte aussi t�t. >> > >> >J'ai v�cu le m�me dileme dans le pass�, aujourd'hui, je consid�re >> >que tomber en amour avec un femme plus �g�e comme �tant >> >dans la cat�gorie des amours impossibles, alors j'essaye m�me pas. >> >J'avoue que la difference d'�ge entre vous n'est pas �norme, mais >> >s'a pourra �tre une explication. >> > >> >Qunad je veux effacer de ma m�moire des ex-partenaires, je d�truit tout >ce qui >> >vient d'eux, de plus je ne leurs donne plus la chance de revenir dans ma >vie, >> >pour ne pas recommencer le cycle douleureux.... >> > >> >Bonne chance >> > >> > >> >JMP a �crit : >> > >> > >
Re: Was: Re: help needed (now usenet language discussion)
Author: Michele Goff
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:00
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:00
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Dear Morceaux, No need for an apology on your part. I am posting from alt.support.grief and English is my native language. What I thought ( like a fool, I didn't check for crossposting on this one ) was that someone (you) had lost a loved one and was grieving, but my French is not very good and I couldn't understand all of what you wrote. I did understand most of what you wrote to me below and I thank you for your graciousness. I would like to apologize to both you and Jacky, as I didn't mean to intrude or offend. Thank you, Michele On Sun, 07 May 2000 22:46:20 GMT, morceaux@integrant.2ndmail.com (les morceaux) wrote: >Salut Michelle and all, > >I must first apologize for responding to this particular part of >the thread in all of the original newsgroups, but I cannot be sure >which newsgroup Michele is posting from and I wanted to assure she >saw what I had to say. I am posting from alt.support.trauma-ptsd. > >After Rhydent posted a response to Jacky en Francais, Michelle >politely asked hir... > >>En Anglais, s'il vous plait? Nous parlons en Anglais. >> >>Merci, > >Which translated to English means, "In English please? We speak >English here. Thank you." > >I should qualify. I do not speak any language other than American >English. I am currently studying French, but I am by no means >within YEARS of being fluent, and I suspect that while I may >someday be able to write fluently in French, I rather doubt that I >will ever be able to speak it well because I have a hearing >disability which exacerbates my inability to pronounce many of the >common sounds en Francais and my accent is and may always be too >horrible for words in any language other than my own. > >That being said... > >Because my Usenet nick is French, there have been a few times when >some kind soul has responded to my posts en Francais, and such >kindness on the part of a fellow human towards me has always >brought tears to my eyes. The assumption they make is incorrect-- >that English is not my milk tongue-- but it is an act of the >sweetest charity for someone to respond to me in the language they >believe is my own, to speak to me in words they think will be >easier for me to understand. > >The net is a worldwide culture. Here, for the first time, we have >a true melting pot. I believe it is wrong to request than anyone >use *any* specific language here. When I see a post in a language >other than English, if no one responds to it within a day or two, >I drag up my babelfish translator and post a translation of their >post, and a response in both English and the original language, >with apologies for my poor grammar. I would like to see others do >the same. English may be a common tongue worldwide, but so is >French, and so is Spanish, and so is Japanese becoming... and >while this melting pot we call the net is primarily English, there >is no reason that it should be exclusively English. To make it so >would deny those billions of humans on the planet who do *not* >speak English access to this culture, and personally, I am not >willing to do that. > >Michelle, s'il vous plait ne se sentent pas que je vous attaque >avec cette lettre. Votre lettre a Rhydent etait tres aimable et >vous ne meritez pas d'etre punis pour lui. Mais comprenez que >beaucoup ne parlent pas anglais, et faites de la place s'il vous >plaet pour que ces gens se regalent egalement e notre table. >Pardonnez-moi pour mon francais faible, et merci de l'audition ce >que j'ai du dire. > >morceaux >-- >She stared people down and appeared remorseless because the only >choices she knew were predator or victim. > --Shankar Vedantam >-- >My mind is a bad neighborhood. I try not to go there alone. > --Unknown >-- >The best thing about my childhood is it's over. The worst thing >about it is I'm not over it. > --Bailey Trebble > > >
Re: Was: Re: help needed (now usenet language discussion)
Author: Michele Goff
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:00
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:00
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Dear Morceaux, There's no need for apology. English is my native language. I responded from alt.support.grief. Jacky understands several languages and I didn't mean to intrude. My first thought was that perhaps you had lost someone and my French is so rusty, that I knew I couldn't be helpful. I really didn't mean to intrude. I tried to email you at your Rhydent addy, but it bounced, so, out of concern only, I posted that post. Again, I apologize for my blunder. Thank you for your gracious response to me. You are most kind and I apologize, once more, to the both of you. Michele On Sun, 07 May 2000 22:46:20 GMT, morceaux@integrant.2ndmail.com (les morceaux) wrote: >Salut Michelle and all, > >I must first apologize for responding to this particular part of >the thread in all of the original newsgroups, but I cannot be sure >which newsgroup Michele is posting from and I wanted to assure she >saw what I had to say. I am posting from alt.support.trauma-ptsd. > >After Rhydent posted a response to Jacky en Francais, Michelle >politely asked hir... > >>En Anglais, s'il vous plait? Nous parlons en Anglais. >> >>Merci, > >Which translated to English means, "In English please? We speak >English here. Thank you." > >I should qualify. I do not speak any language other than American >English. I am currently studying French, but I am by no means >within YEARS of being fluent, and I suspect that while I may >someday be able to write fluently in French, I rather doubt that I >will ever be able to speak it well because I have a hearing >disability which exacerbates my inability to pronounce many of the >common sounds en Francais and my accent is and may always be too >horrible for words in any language other than my own. > >That being said... > >Because my Usenet nick is French, there have been a few times when >some kind soul has responded to my posts en Francais, and such >kindness on the part of a fellow human towards me has always >brought tears to my eyes. The assumption they make is incorrect-- >that English is not my milk tongue-- but it is an act of the >sweetest charity for someone to respond to me in the language they >believe is my own, to speak to me in words they think will be >easier for me to understand. > >The net is a worldwide culture. Here, for the first time, we have >a true melting pot. I believe it is wrong to request than anyone >use *any* specific language here. When I see a post in a language >other than English, if no one responds to it within a day or two, >I drag up my babelfish translator and post a translation of their >post, and a response in both English and the original language, >with apologies for my poor grammar. I would like to see others do >the same. English may be a common tongue worldwide, but so is >French, and so is Spanish, and so is Japanese becoming... and >while this melting pot we call the net is primarily English, there >is no reason that it should be exclusively English. To make it so >would deny those billions of humans on the planet who do *not* >speak English access to this culture, and personally, I am not >willing to do that. > >Michelle, s'il vous plait ne se sentent pas que je vous attaque >avec cette lettre. Votre lettre a Rhydent etait tres aimable et >vous ne meritez pas d'etre punis pour lui. Mais comprenez que >beaucoup ne parlent pas anglais, et faites de la place s'il vous >plaet pour que ces gens se regalent egalement e notre table. >Pardonnez-moi pour mon francais faible, et merci de l'audition ce >que j'ai du dire. > >morceaux >-- >She stared people down and appeared remorseless because the only >choices she knew were predator or victim. > --Shankar Vedantam >-- >My mind is a bad neighborhood. I try not to go there alone. > --Unknown >-- >The best thing about my childhood is it's over. The worst thing >about it is I'm not over it. > --Bailey Trebble > > >
Re: Re: help needed (now usenet language discussion)
Author: JMP
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:00
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 00:00
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Hi, Thanks for making this particular thing clear. As a French female, and having said in my mail that an answer could be given either in French, German, and/or English, i did not understand Michelle's reaction. I have exactly the same opinion as you have about the net. Let us share as much as possible. If some of us are able to speak several languages, it is OK, if not, let us try, as YOU do, our best, so that as many persons as possible may have a piece of this wonderful cake. Thanks and peace be with you all Jacky les morceaux <morceaux@integrant.2ndmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 0nmR4.6066$Lx.802505@news-west.usenetserver.com... > Salut Michelle and all, > > I must first apologize for responding to this particular part of > the thread in all of the original newsgroups, but I cannot be sure > which newsgroup Michele is posting from and I wanted to assure she > saw what I had to say. I am posting from alt.support.trauma-ptsd. > > After Rhydent posted a response to Jacky en Francais, Michelle > politely asked hir... > > >En Anglais, s'il vous plait? Nous parlons en Anglais. > > > >Merci, > > Which translated to English means, "In English please? We speak > English here. Thank you." > > I should qualify. I do not speak any language other than American > English. I am currently studying French, but I am by no means > within YEARS of being fluent, and I suspect that while I may > someday be able to write fluently in French, I rather doubt that I > will ever be able to speak it well because I have a hearing > disability which exacerbates my inability to pronounce many of the > common sounds en Francais and my accent is and may always be too > horrible for words in any language other than my own. > > That being said... > > Because my Usenet nick is French, there have been a few times when > some kind soul has responded to my posts en Francais, and such > kindness on the part of a fellow human towards me has always > brought tears to my eyes. The assumption they make is incorrect-- > that English is not my milk tongue-- but it is an act of the > sweetest charity for someone to respond to me in the language they > believe is my own, to speak to me in words they think will be > easier for me to understand. > > The net is a worldwide culture. Here, for the first time, we have > a true melting pot. I believe it is wrong to request than anyone > use *any* specific language here. When I see a post in a language > other than English, if no one responds to it within a day or two, > I drag up my babelfish translator and post a translation of their > post, and a response in both English and the original language, > with apologies for my poor grammar. I would like to see others do > the same. English may be a common tongue worldwide, but so is > French, and so is Spanish, and so is Japanese becoming... and > while this melting pot we call the net is primarily English, there > is no reason that it should be exclusively English. To make it so > would deny those billions of humans on the planet who do *not* > speak English access to this culture, and personally, I am not > willing to do that. > > Michelle, s'il vous plait ne se sentent pas que je vous attaque > avec cette lettre. Votre lettre a Rhydent etait tres aimable et > vous ne meritez pas d'etre punis pour lui. Mais comprenez que > beaucoup ne parlent pas anglais, et faites de la place s'il vous > plaet pour que ces gens se regalent egalement e notre table. > Pardonnez-moi pour mon francais faible, et merci de l'audition ce > que j'ai du dire. > > morceaux > -- > She stared people down and appeared remorseless because the only > choices she knew were predator or victim. > --Shankar Vedantam > -- > My mind is a bad neighborhood. I try not to go there alone. > --Unknown > -- > The best thing about my childhood is it's over. The worst thing > about it is I'm not over it. > --Bailey Trebble > > >
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