🚀 go-pugleaf

I don't know what bushie or Obama have to do with it....the fucker deserves 
to die.

"Pops Mear" <PopsMear@here.usa> wrote in message 
news:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com...
> Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> Bushie.
>
>
> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/21/First_military_execution_since_61_planned/UPI-53731227273424/
>
> First military execution since '61 planned
>
> Published: Nov. 21, 2008 at 8:17 AM
>
> WASHINGTON, Nov. 21 (UPI) -- A U.S. soldier convicted of rape and
> murder is scheduled to be executed next month in the first military
> execution in more than 40 years, the Army said.
>
> Pvt. Ronald Gray, convicted 20 years ago, will be executed by lethal
> injection at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Ind.,
> CNN reported. The execution will be carried out by soldiers from Fort
> Leavenworth, Kan., where Gray had been on death row since 1988.
>
> Gray was convicted of raping and killing a female Army private and a
> civilian near his post at Fort Bragg, N.C., and was convicted of the
> rape and attempted murder of another soldier in her barracks. Military
> and civilian courts found Gray responsible for the crimes committed
> between April 1986 and January 1987, CNN reported.
>
> In July, President George Bush approved the Army's request to execute
> Gray.
>
> "The president took action following completion of a full appellate
> process, which upheld the conviction and sentence to death," the Army
> said in a news release.
>
> The last U.S. military execution was in 1961, when Army Pvt. John
> Bennett was hanged for raping and attempting to kill an 11-year-old
> Austrian girl.
>
>
> 

Z I N N N G G G G !!

In news:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com,
Pops Mear <PopsMear@here.usa>spewed forth:
> Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> Bushie.
>
>
>

Is your name juanita or sandra?
Are you really this stupid?
Why is it that your kind don't have a problem killing a baby, but rant like 
lunatics when a murdering rapist is killed?
The babies NEVER get a chance at an appeal, but this piece of shit did.
Ya'll got your priorities all fucked up 

On Nov 24, 11:47 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
> Innews:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com,
> Pops Mear <PopsM...@here.usa>spewed forth:
>
> > Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> > Bushie.
>
> Is your name juanita or sandra?
> Are you really this stupid?
> Why is it that your kind don't have a problem killing a baby

Please don't use the ridiculous and absurd "killing a baby" argument

I have never killed a baby nor have most of the people you rant
against

Now if you are talking about a woman's right to choose what to when
faced with an unwanted pregnancy, what is it your business

Regarding this guy, he is obviously a loser and a murderer but when we
execute him, we become murderers too

Life in prison is truly punishment enough

And I find it quite interesting that those of you who are anti-
abortion and say you are pro-life backed this war in Iraq that killed
tens of thousands of innocent people and made millions refugees.  How
is that pro-life?

How is it pro-life to deny those kids born adequate health coverage or
adequate housing or schooling or nutrition

There is more to being pro-life than stopping a woman from having an
abortion





, but rant like
> lunatics when a murdering rapist is killed?
> The babies NEVER get a chance at an appeal, but this piece of shit did.
> Ya'll got your priorities all fucked up

Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in 
self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As 
for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of 
shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with 
my money.
And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration, 
anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a 
republican.

"bushlyed" <bushlyed@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:f265774e-0b54-49fd-982d-640285e8b2a2@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 24, 11:47 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
> Innews:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com,
> Pops Mear <PopsM...@here.usa>spewed forth:
>
> > Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> > Bushie.
>
> Is your name juanita or sandra?
> Are you really this stupid?
> Why is it that your kind don't have a problem killing a baby

Please don't use the ridiculous and absurd "killing a baby" argument

I have never killed a baby nor have most of the people you rant
against

Now if you are talking about a woman's right to choose what to when
faced with an unwanted pregnancy, what is it your business

Regarding this guy, he is obviously a loser and a murderer but when we
execute him, we become murderers too

Life in prison is truly punishment enough

And I find it quite interesting that those of you who are anti-
abortion and say you are pro-life backed this war in Iraq that killed
tens of thousands of innocent people and made millions refugees.  How
is that pro-life?

How is it pro-life to deny those kids born adequate health coverage or
adequate housing or schooling or nutrition

There is more to being pro-life than stopping a woman from having an
abortion





, but rant like
> lunatics when a murdering rapist is killed?
> The babies NEVER get a chance at an appeal, but this piece of shit did.
> Ya'll got your priorities all fucked up

On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> self defense does.

Shooting someone in self-defense is allowable only if your life is in
imminent danger.

> We are killing him before he can kill one of us again.

Locking him up in prison for the rest of his life, which I favor,
accomplishes the same thing

Europe seems to have done quite well without the death penalty
> As
> for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> my money.

Executing a person is actually more costly but then money is not the
only consideration

I am against capital punishment because I think it is unethical

I am disgusted with this guy's behavior and want him punished


> And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> republican.

No and I agree with you on most issues.  I am quite anti-bush and even
as a liberal Democrat have no issues with people owning guns.  Indeed,
the state with the most freedom to own guns is the very liberal
enclave known as Vermont

I know this guy is evil.  I just can't phatom a humane and advanced
society holding a man in a room and going through a long, convoluted
procedure to march another human being down somewhere in order to
terminate their life

What about the GI?  :-)


On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:46:56 -0600, "Chris" <vscooternospam@att.net>
wrote:

>I don't know what bushie or Obama have to do with it....the fucker deserves 
>to die.
>
>"Pops Mear" <PopsMear@here.usa> wrote in message 
>news:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com...
>> Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
>> Bushie.
>>
>>
>> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/21/First_military_execution_since_61_planned/UPI-53731227273424/
>>
>> First military execution since '61 planned
>>
>> Published: Nov. 21, 2008 at 8:17 AM
>>
>> WASHINGTON, Nov. 21 (UPI) -- A U.S. soldier convicted of rape and
>> murder is scheduled to be executed next month in the first military
>> execution in more than 40 years, the Army said.
>>
>> Pvt. Ronald Gray, convicted 20 years ago, will be executed by lethal
>> injection at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Ind.,
>> CNN reported. The execution will be carried out by soldiers from Fort
>> Leavenworth, Kan., where Gray had been on death row since 1988.
>>
>> Gray was convicted of raping and killing a female Army private and a
>> civilian near his post at Fort Bragg, N.C., and was convicted of the
>> rape and attempted murder of another soldier in her barracks. Military
>> and civilian courts found Gray responsible for the crimes committed
>> between April 1986 and January 1987, CNN reported.
>>
>> In July, President George Bush approved the Army's request to execute
>> Gray.
>>
>> "The president took action following completion of a full appellate
>> process, which upheld the conviction and sentence to death," the Army
>> said in a news release.
>>
>> The last U.S. military execution was in 1961, when Army Pvt. John
>> Bennett was hanged for raping and attempting to kill an 11-year-old
>> Austrian girl.
>>
>>
>> 
>

In article 
<0e531273-c353-430b-a19b-d5c684959fe4@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
 bushlyed <bushlyed@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Nov 25, 9:27�am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > self defense does.
> 
> Shooting someone in self-defense is allowable only if your life is in
> imminent danger.

Not in Texas.

Him too...and the little corporal in the white house right now....

"Pops Mear" <PopsMear@here.usa> wrote in message 
news:4vfoi4lrsop2qr96p3oj5mkahne6v3buuo@4ax.com...
> What about the GI?  :-)
>
>
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:46:56 -0600, "Chris" <vscooternospam@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I don't know what bushie or Obama have to do with it....the fucker 
>>deserves
>>to die.
>>
>>"Pops Mear" <PopsMear@here.usa> wrote in message
>>news:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com...
>>> Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
>>> Bushie.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/21/First_military_execution_since_61_planned/UPI-53731227273424/
>>>
>>> First military execution since '61 planned
>>>
>>> Published: Nov. 21, 2008 at 8:17 AM
>>>
>>> WASHINGTON, Nov. 21 (UPI) -- A U.S. soldier convicted of rape and
>>> murder is scheduled to be executed next month in the first military
>>> execution in more than 40 years, the Army said.
>>>
>>> Pvt. Ronald Gray, convicted 20 years ago, will be executed by lethal
>>> injection at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Ind.,
>>> CNN reported. The execution will be carried out by soldiers from Fort
>>> Leavenworth, Kan., where Gray had been on death row since 1988.
>>>
>>> Gray was convicted of raping and killing a female Army private and a
>>> civilian near his post at Fort Bragg, N.C., and was convicted of the
>>> rape and attempted murder of another soldier in her barracks. Military
>>> and civilian courts found Gray responsible for the crimes committed
>>> between April 1986 and January 1987, CNN reported.
>>>
>>> In July, President George Bush approved the Army's request to execute
>>> Gray.
>>>
>>> "The president took action following completion of a full appellate
>>> process, which upheld the conviction and sentence to death," the Army
>>> said in a news release.
>>>
>>> The last U.S. military execution was in 1961, when Army Pvt. John
>>> Bennett was hanged for raping and attempting to kill an 11-year-old
>>> Austrian girl.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 

"bushlyed" <bushlyed@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:0e531273-c353-430b-a19b-d5c684959fe4@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone 
> in
> self defense does.

Shooting someone in self-defense is allowable only if your life is in
imminent danger.

*As long as people like that are free, we are all in imminent danger....

> We are killing him before he can kill one of us again.

Locking him up in prison for the rest of his life, which I favor,
accomplishes the same thing

*So we have to keep building prisons to hold scum like this instead of just 
killing them off and using the same room over and over again.


Europe seems to have done quite well without the death penalty

*They don't have near the crime problems we have, possibly due to their more 
enlightened views on drug use in certain countries.

> As
> for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do 
> with
> my money.

Executing a person is actually more costly but then money is not the
only consideration

*It is only more costly due to the neverending appeals process....it could 
be streamlined greatly with no loss of justice and then it would be a much 
cheaper alternative "My name is Earl Scheib and I can execute anyone for 
$29.95"

I am against capital punishment because I think it is unethical

*Capital punishment is only unethical if you are the one being 
punished....but then rape and murder of innocent people is also unethical. 
You can't treat an unethcial subhuman scumbag ethically....they don't play 
by the same rules. And unfortunately in this day and age a life sentence 
never really last their whole life....so someday they will probably get out 
again and then what. Look at it this way, all humans are basically 
animals...it is the way we are born, civilization is taught to us.....some 
people can't or won't learn so they need to go back and start over again in 
the next life. Some people just aren't worth saving.


I am disgusted with this guy's behavior and want him punished

* he won't learn and punishment won't bother him because he is incapable of 
humanity....why waste your time....just send him back to the universe and 
let it try again.



> And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not 
> a
> republican.

No and I agree with you on most issues.  I am quite anti-bush and even
as a liberal Democrat have no issues with people owning guns.  Indeed,
the state with the most freedom to own guns is the very liberal
enclave known as Vermont

* And they have great ice cream. :)


I know this guy is evil.  I just can't phatom a humane and advanced
society holding a man in a room and going through a long, convoluted
procedure to march another human being down somewhere in order to
terminate their life

* The long convoluted process is the problem...not the eventual outcome of 
it. 

On Nov 25, 6:57 pm, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> "bushlyed" <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0e531273-c353-430b-a19b-d5c684959fe4@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone
> > in
> > self defense does.
>
> Shooting someone in self-defense is allowable only if your life is in
> imminent danger.
>
> *As long as people like that are free, we are all in imminent danger....
>

You obviously don't understand the definitioin of imminent

> > We are killing him before he can kill one of us again.
>
> Locking him up in prison for the rest of his life, which I favor,
> accomplishes the same thing
>
> *So we have to keep building prisons to hold scum like this instead of just
> killing them off and using the same room over and over again.
>

Where do we draw the line?  Europeans seem to handle this situation
quite well; indeed, Turkey is giving up capital punishment because
they want to enter the EU and that is one of the requirements.  So an
Islamic country is more advanced than we are.

> Europe seems to have done quite well without the death penalty
>
> *They don't have near the crime problems we have, possibly due to their more
> enlightened views on drug use in certain countries.
>

It is a chicken and egg argument; perhaps they don't have the crime
problems because they don't have the mentality that we have the right
to kill

> > As
> > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do
> > with
> > my money.
>
> Executing a person is actually more costly but then money is not the
> only consideration
>
> *It is only more costly due to the neverending appeals process....it could
> be streamlined greatly with no loss of justice and then it would be a much
> cheaper alternative "My name is Earl Scheib and I can execute anyone for
> $29.95"
>

Right and what happens when you do it fast and get it wrong and
execute an innocent person

How do you correct that, how do you make that up


> I am against capital punishment because I think it is unethical
>
> *Capital punishment is only unethical if you are the one being
> punished....but then rape and murder of innocent people is also unethical.

Yes, so we committ an unethical act because someone else committed an
unethical act

> You can't treat an unethcial subhuman scumbag ethically....they don't play
> by the same rules.

And if you play by their rules, you are no fucking better than they
are.  Period.

> And unfortunately in this day and age a life sentence
> never really last their whole life....

That is not true.  California passed three strikes and there are guys
eighty years old in jail who can never get out

>so someday they will probably get out
> again and then what. Look at it this way, all humans are basically
> animals...it is the way we are born, civilization is taught to us.....some
> people can't or won't learn so they need to go back and start over again in
> the next life. Some people just aren't worth saving.
>

Next life?  Give me a break

> I am disgusted with this guy's behavior and want him punished
>
> * he won't learn and punishment won't bother him because he is incapable of
> humanity....why waste your time....just send him back to the universe and
> let it try again.
>

You are certainly wasting time arguing this.

> > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not
> > a
> > republican.
>
> No and I agree with you on most issues.  I am quite anti-bush and even
> as a liberal Democrat have no issues with people owning guns.  Indeed,
> the state with the most freedom to own guns is the very liberal
> enclave known as Vermont
>
> * And they have great ice cream. :)
>
> I know this guy is evil.  I just can't phatom a humane and advanced
> society holding a man in a room and going through a long, convoluted
> procedure to march another human being down somewhere in order to
> terminate their life
>
> * The long convoluted process is the problem...not the eventual outcome of
> it.

Again, killing for whatever reason is wrong

"bushlyed" <bushlyed@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:4bef9d93-4939-4414-b23a-1450d08fa08b@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 25, 6:57 pm, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> "bushlyed" <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0e531273-c353-430b-a19b-d5c684959fe4@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting 
> > someone
> > in
> > self defense does.
>
> Shooting someone in self-defense is allowable only if your life is in
> imminent danger.
>
> *As long as people like that are free, we are all in imminent danger....
>

You obviously don't understand the definitioin of imminent

*Sure I do....and I think anytime someone like this is out on the street 
there is an imminent danger of him killing someone. Just because he can't 
always do it doesn't mean he isn't trying to....


> > We are killing him before he can kill one of us again.
>
> Locking him up in prison for the rest of his life, which I favor,
> accomplishes the same thing
>
> *So we have to keep building prisons to hold scum like this instead of 
> just
> killing them off and using the same room over and over again.
>

Where do we draw the line?  Europeans seem to handle this situation
quite well; indeed, Turkey is giving up capital punishment because
they want to enter the EU and that is one of the requirements.  So an
Islamic country is more advanced than we are.

*I personally don't think of it as an advance myself. Getting rid of the 
scum of the earth is not a bad thing. Do you think if we ever catch OBL we 
should just sentence him to life in prison? So who in your opinion deserves 
to die for their crimes? No one? I must disagree...


> Europe seems to have done quite well without the death penalty
>
> *They don't have near the crime problems we have, possibly due to their 
> more
> enlightened views on drug use in certain countries.
>

It is a chicken and egg argument; perhaps they don't have the crime
problems because they don't have the mentality that we have the right
to kill

* I doubt very much that that is the reason.....I still believe the greatest 
reason for our crime problem is our backward ass drug policy.


> > As
> > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece 
> > of
> > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do
> > with
> > my money.
>
> Executing a person is actually more costly but then money is not the
> only consideration
>
> *It is only more costly due to the neverending appeals process....it could
> be streamlined greatly with no loss of justice and then it would be a much
> cheaper alternative "My name is Earl Scheib and I can execute anyone for
> $29.95"
>

Right and what happens when you do it fast and get it wrong and
execute an innocent person

*Like I said, we can do it faster and without a loss of justice. With the 
technology available today the chances of a wrongful conviction have dropped 
dramatically. And most of the appeals are not because they aren't guilty, 
they are because some lawyer says they weren't convicted the right way or on 
of the endless conflicting details of todays laws wasn't followed properly 
so the scumbag deserves a new trial...please.....


How do you correct that, how do you make that up

*As you well know, it can't be made up.....but I would rather kill a 
thousand bad ones and possibly a couple of good ones, then let the thousand 
bad ones live just in case one of them might be innocent. And before you 
ask, if I was the innocent one then yes I would rather die then let the 
thousand bad ones go free. At least it would be a noble death.


> I am against capital punishment because I think it is unethical
>
> *Capital punishment is only unethical if you are the one being
> punished....but then rape and murder of innocent people is also unethical.

Yes, so we committ an unethical act because someone else committed an
unethical act

*You missed the point of the statement. It is only unethical to the one 
being executed....and they are scumbags who have no ethics so who gives a 
shit what they think.


> You can't treat an unethcial subhuman scumbag ethically....they don't play
> by the same rules.

And if you play by their rules, you are no fucking better than they
are.  Period.

*Wrong....you are not playing by their rules. You are protecting the lives 
of innocents by stopping a killer the only way that guarantees success. If 
that offends your delicate sensibilities then I am truly sorry.....but maybe 
your significant other or your children will be alive to comfort you about 
it because I chose to stop some scumbag permanently before they got to your 
house.


> And unfortunately in this day and age a life sentence
> never really last their whole life....

That is not true.  California passed three strikes and there are guys
eighty years old in jail who can never get out

*So at least you will be safe there.....meanwhile in the rest of the 
country, people sentence to life terms are getting out in 20 years and 
getting back into business right where they left off.


>so someday they will probably get out
> again and then what. Look at it this way, all humans are basically
> animals...it is the way we are born, civilization is taught to us.....some
> people can't or won't learn so they need to go back and start over again 
> in
> the next life. Some people just aren't worth saving.
>

Next life?  Give me a break

*Who knows if there is a next one or not.....maybe there electrical energy 
signature will just mix back into the universe and the next time it becomes 
human life it will be better.......use the force Luke.....


> I am disgusted with this guy's behavior and want him punished
>
> * he won't learn and punishment won't bother him because he is incapable 
> of
> humanity....why waste your time....just send him back to the universe and
> let it try again.
>

You are certainly wasting time arguing this.

*Really....you seem to be answering my statements so it is not really a 
waste of time...I paid for an argument and I expect one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y&feature=PlayList&p=CDFEA6D52E5CC0EC&index=0

> > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am 
> > not
> > a
> > republican.
>
> No and I agree with you on most issues. I am quite anti-bush and even
> as a liberal Democrat have no issues with people owning guns. Indeed,
> the state with the most freedom to own guns is the very liberal
> enclave known as Vermont
>
> * And they have great ice cream. :)
>
> I know this guy is evil. I just can't phatom a humane and advanced
> society holding a man in a room and going through a long, convoluted
> procedure to march another human being down somewhere in order to
> terminate their life
>
> * The long convoluted process is the problem...not the eventual outcome of
> it.

Again, killing for whatever reason is wrong

*Again, I disagree.....some people just deserve killing.....and that makes 
life better for the rest of us. 

On Nov 26, 12:09 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:

 *As long as people like that are free, we are all in imminent
danger....


He is certainly not free are that is an asinine argument; he is in
prison


>
> You obviously don't understand the definitioin of imminent
>
> *Sure I do....and I think anytime someone like this is out on the street
> there is an imminent danger of him killing someone. Just because he can't
> always do it doesn't mean he isn't trying to....
>

Definition:  likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is
imminent.

And again, life imprisonment is slightly different than being out in
the street but I guess you are not bright enough to understand that
>
> *I personally don't think of it as an advance myself. Getting rid of the
> scum of the earth is not a bad thing.


And what if I decided you were the scum of the earth which I am
quickly drawing to that conclusion

Hitler decided that the Jews were the scum of the earth

The KKK and southern bigots decided that blacks were the scum of the
earth

>Do you think if we ever catch OBL we
> should just sentence him to life in prison?

Which would be a whole hell of a lot humiliating for him and his cause
than just killing him; killing him would make him a martyr

Don't get me wrong, if we could take him out with a missle strike, I
am all in favor but I just would love to subject him to the type of
humilation that a 6'5" muslim extemist would have to endure among
black and hispanic gangs in prison


>
> * I doubt very much that that is the reason.....I still believe the greatest
> reason for our crime problem is our backward ass drug policy.
>

I hate our drug policy too.  But this guy did not kill because of our
drug policy


> Right and what happens when you do it fast and get it wrong and
> execute an innocent person
>
> *Like I said, we can do it faster and without a loss of justice.

The two are mutually exclusive

> With the
> technology available today the chances of a wrongful conviction have dropped
> dramatically.

Check out the innocence project please

> And most of the appeals are not because they aren't guilty,
> they are because some lawyer says they weren't convicted the right way or on
> of the endless conflicting details of todays laws wasn't followed properly
> so the scumbag deserves a new trial...please.....
>

Right way of conviction.  Like beating a confession out of a person,
or fabricating evidence

> How do you correct that, how do you make that up
>
> *As you well know, it can't be made up.....but I would rather kill a
> thousand bad ones and possibly a couple of good ones

What if your mother was one of the good ones; jezus, what horrible
reasoning

>, then let the thousand
> bad ones live just in case one of them might be innocent. And before you
> ask, if I was the innocent one then yes I would rather die then let the
> thousand bad ones go free. At least it would be a noble death.
>

Really.  I will gladly buy your ticket to the death row of your choice

That is an extemely idiotic statement

>
> Next life?  Give me a break
>
> *Who knows if there is a next one or not.....maybe there electrical energy
> signature will just mix back into the universe and the next time it becomes
> human life it will be better.......use the force Luke.....
>

What are you smoking.  I really would like to get some of that

>
> *Again, I disagree.....some people just deserve killing.....and that makes
> life better for the rest of us

Yeah, and who gets to decide who deserves killing and what qualifies
them for that

"bushlyed" <bushlyed@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:04cf8a67-2142-47ee-8a4a-9bcf1e6efd1d@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 26, 12:09 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:

 *As long as people like that are free, we are all in imminent
danger....


He is certainly not free are that is an asinine argument; he is in
prison

*And if he is put to death for his crimes he never has a chance to get out 
and do it again. And I didsay he was free, I said as long as people like him 
are free we are all in imminenet danger...



>
> You obviously don't understand the definitioin of imminent
>
> *Sure I do....and I think anytime someone like this is out on the street
> there is an imminent danger of him killing someone. Just because he can't
> always do it doesn't mean he isn't trying to....
>

Definition:  likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is
imminent.

*Which it always is when scum like this are alive....


And again, life imprisonment is slightly different than being out in
the street but I guess you are not bright enough to understand that

*No I guess you are really understanding what I am saying but resorting to 
namcalling is certainly bolstering you argument.....keep it up.

>
> *I personally don't think of it as an advance myself. Getting rid of the
> scum of the earth is not a bad thing.


And what if I decided you were the scum of the earth which I am
quickly drawing to that conclusion

*You are entitled to your opinion.....if I come to your house and kill your 
kids or wife then your conclusion would be justified and I would be 
deserving fo the death penalty. ( that is not a threat, just an example so 
calm down)


Hitler decided that the Jews were the scum of the earth

*Yes but the Jews weren't raping and murdering people so it was obvious he 
was wrong.


The KKK and southern bigots decided that blacks were the scum of the
earth

*And if you look at their members you will see that they are obviously wrong 
in so many different ways.....but neither of your arguments have anything to 
do with a convicted rapist and murderer....who is by the way the scum of the 
earth....you seem to be the only one saying otherwise.


>Do you think if we ever catch OBL we
> should just sentence him to life in prison?

Which would be a whole hell of a lot humiliating for him and his cause
than just killing him; killing him would make him a martyr

*And putting him in prison would make him a prize to be sought by any number 
of hijackers or kidnappers who might just take over a preschool or something 
to try and trade his release for the hostages. I don't care about 
humiliating him for years in prison....I want his ass out of the game for 
good.


Don't get me wrong, if we could take him out with a missle strike, I
am all in favor but I just would love to subject him to the type of
humilation that a 6'5" muslim extemist would have to endure among
black and hispanic gangs in prison

* it wouldn't be worth the risk of making him a prize for the millions of 
religeous zealots out there.



>
> * I doubt very much that that is the reason.....I still believe the 
> greatest
> reason for our crime problem is our backward ass drug policy.
>

I hate our drug policy too.  But this guy did not kill because of our
drug policy

* I was speaking in general terms of our crime rate. This guy killed because 
he is not wired correctly from the manufacturer....



> Right and what happens when you do it fast and get it wrong and
> execute an innocent person
>
> *Like I said, we can do it faster and without a loss of justice.

The two are mutually exclusive

* Not at all....just because you believe so doesn't make it so.


> With the
> technology available today the chances of a wrongful conviction have 
> dropped
> dramatically.

Check out the innocence project please

*I have.....you do see how old most of those cases are don't you....how many 
wrongful convictions have they taken on that happened in the last five 
years?


> And most of the appeals are not because they aren't guilty,
> they are because some lawyer says they weren't convicted the right way or 
> on
> of the endless conflicting details of todays laws wasn't followed properly
> so the scumbag deserves a new trial...please.....
>

Right way of conviction.  Like beating a confession out of a person,
or fabricating evidence

*No, like not having every "I" crossed and "T" dotted....


> How do you correct that, how do you make that up
>
> *As you well know, it can't be made up.....but I would rather kill a
> thousand bad ones and possibly a couple of good ones

What if your mother was one of the good ones; jezus, what horrible
reasoning


* Not at all.....and my mother has already been arrested.....search the 
General Patreus hearings and Code Pink on Google.....or look in the archives 
of the Daily Show....her probation is finally up though so she can go back 
to D.C. for the innauguration.  :)


>, then let the thousand
> bad ones live just in case one of them might be innocent. And before you
> ask, if I was the innocent one then yes I would rather die then let the
> thousand bad ones go free. At least it would be a noble death.
>

Really.  I will gladly buy your ticket to the death row of your choice

*If you can guarantee me that the thousand guilty bastards get iced as well 
then we will talk.


That is an extemely idiotic statement

* Maybe to you.....but I happen to think some things are worth dieing 
for....just as some things are worth killing for.


>
> Next life? Give me a break
>
> *Who knows if there is a next one or not.....maybe there electrical energy
> signature will just mix back into the universe and the next time it 
> becomes
> human life it will be better.......use the force Luke.....
>

What are you smoking.  I really would like to get some of that

*Actually I quit smoking 3 weeks ago.....I bought myself a new Harley for my 
birthday so I quit smoking to pay for it.....


>
> *Again, I disagree.....some people just deserve killing.....and that makes
> life better for the rest of us

Yeah, and who gets to decide who deserves killing and what qualifies
them for that

*Well as a simple rule of thumb, start with the rapists and murderers and 
child molesters and then we can add to the list as necessary.....and a jury 
of their peers makes the decision, not me. I just want to ensure they have 
the option.

On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> my money.
> And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> republican.
>
> "bushlyed" <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f265774e-0b54-49fd-982d-640285e8b2a2@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 24, 11:47 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
>
> > Innews:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com,
> > Pops Mear <PopsM...@here.usa>spewed forth:
>
> > > Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> > > Bushie.
>
> > Is your name juanita or sandra?
> > Are you really this stupid?
> > Why is it that your kind don't have a problem killing a baby
>
> Please don't use the ridiculous and absurd "killing a baby" argument
>
> I have never killed a baby nor have most of the people you rant
> against
>
> Now if you are talking about a woman's right to choose what to when
> faced with an unwanted pregnancy, what is it your business
>
> Regarding this guy, he is obviously a loser and a murderer but when we
> execute him, we become murderers too
>
> Life in prison is truly punishment enough
>
> And I find it quite interesting that those of you who are anti-
> abortion and say you are pro-life backed this war in Iraq...
>

Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh! The enemy is doing that!


> that killed
> tens of thousands of innocent people and made millions refugees.
>
>  How
> is that pro-life?
>

Yes, but Saddam was murdering them but the HUNDREDS of thousands.
Quite possibly the millions. And you know this, too. That is why I
have a hard time understanding how those on the left, who are
supposedly so up for human rights, find it difficult in not impossible
to support their nation when it comes to actually getting it done. Or
does it always work that way…? . I guess it’s the old adage… Democrat
bombs good; Republican bombs bad. More rotten turn-and-look-the-other-
way liberal hypocrisy. And another hallmark of their so-called
integrity.

The other thing that those apposed to the war are doing is the same
thing that they did by the Vietnam war.. They are insuring a black
mark on the history of America. You are actually changing history to
an animal of your own choosing. And in the end, you will have created
hundreds of thousands of ex-GIs who ‘aren’t sure’ if what they did was
right or not. When they had to kill, butcher, burn and maim or be
fucking killed, butchered, burned or maimed. You people.... You're a
frigging DISEASE. Too bad you’re so contagious.


The Nice Mean Man

On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> my money.
> And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> republican.
>

LOL...!!!

James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

On Nov 27, 12:20 am, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> > my money.
> > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> > republican.
>
> > "bushlyed" <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:f265774e-0b54-49fd-982d-640285e8b2a2@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 24, 11:47 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
>
> > > Innews:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com,
> > > Pops Mear <PopsM...@here.usa>spewed forth:
>
> > > > Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> > > > Bushie.
>
> > > Is your name juanita or sandra?
> > > Are you really this stupid?
> > > Why is it that your kind don't have a problem killing a baby
>
> > Please don't use the ridiculous and absurd "killing a baby" argument
>
> > I have never killed a baby nor have most of the people you rant
> > against
>
> > Now if you are talking about a woman's right to choose what to when
> > faced with an unwanted pregnancy, what is it your business
>
> > Regarding this guy, he is obviously a loser and a murderer but when we
> > execute him, we become murderers too
>
> > Life in prison is truly punishment enough
>
> > And I find it quite interesting that those of you who are anti-
> > abortion and say you are pro-life backed this war in Iraq...
>
> Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh! The enemy is doing that!
>
> > that killed
> > tens of thousands of innocent people and made millions refugees.
>
> >  How
> > is that pro-life?
>
> Yes, but Saddam was murdering them but the HUNDREDS of thousands.
> Quite possibly the millions. And you know this, too. That is why I
> have a hard time understanding how those on the left, who are
> supposedly so up for human rights, find it difficult in not impossible
> to support their nation when it comes to actually getting it done.

Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights.  It was
about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.

But all they have to do to you people is wave a boogeyman like Saddam
to get you war mongers to salivate.

Now, there is genocide around the world, why are you guys not
clamoring for us to do something.

 Or
> does it always work that way…? . I guess it’s the old adage… Democrat
> bombs good; Republican bombs bad. More rotten turn-and-look-the-other-
> way liberal hypocrisy. And another hallmark of their so-called
> integrity.
>

No, it is your hyporcisy.  And remember, it was the Republicans during
the eighties that supported and supplied Saddam and helped make him
the monster that he was.

> The other thing that those apposed to the war are doing is the same
> thing that they did by the Vietnam war..

Vietnam war?  Interfering in the internal affairs of another nation.
After dividing a country that should not have been divided, we
supported a dictatorship.

> They are insuring a black
> mark on the history of America. You are actually changing history to
> an animal of your own choosing. And in the end, you will have created
> hundreds of thousands of ex-GIs who ‘aren’t sure’ if what they did was
> right or not. When they had to kill, butcher, burn and maim or be
> fucking killed, butchered, burned or maimed. You people.... You're a
> frigging DISEASE. Too bad you’re so contagious.

What we did in Vietnam was not right.  We napalmed people, we dropped
more bombs there than we did in WWII, we killed millions of people.

For opposing the Vietnam war, we are a disease.  You sir are a fucking
warmongering moron who doesn't understand history.  You are truly a
fucking idiot and the only disease is in your warped brain.

Vietnam is a black mark on the history of America.  As was the
overthrow of the governments of Iran and Chile and the Spanish-
American war and Mexica war which was for the seizure of territory
only.

Yours sir is not a world view and your myopia is startling.

On Nov 27, 12:23 am, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> > my money.
> > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> > republican.
>
> LOL...!!!
>
> James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

You are quoting a bible that is fraught with inconsistencies and
absurdities.

That's the best you can do.

Well here is a quote from Tennessee Williams:

Fuck you

In article 
<6e79dfef-ec88-434e-b7d3-163eabb1c024@41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
 bushlyed <bushlyed@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights.  It was
> about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.


Oddly enough, we haven't taken their oil, and they're forming a 
rerpresentative government.

How do those facts fit with your "oil, oil, oil" theory?

 
> But all they have to do to you people is wave a boogeyman like Saddam
> to get you war mongers to salivate.

But the "bogeyman" is is not real, Saddam was.

At least, that's what the dem's we're telling us for years before and after 
Bush was elected.

Surely you remember the many times we were warned of the "imminent threat"?

(Maybe, just maybe, that's why they voted in the majority to give Bush the 
power to take out the "boogeyman").


> Now, there is genocide around the world, why are you guys not
> clamoring for us to do something.

We do when it is our *national interest*, just like everyone else.

If there is no strategic value to a region, we let the UN handle things, 
isn't that what they're for?

On Nov 27, 3:13 am, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 12:20 am, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> > > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> > > my money.
> > > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> > > republican.
>
> > > "bushlyed" <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:f265774e-0b54-49fd-982d-640285e8b2a2@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Nov 24, 11:47 pm, "ChairMan" <w...@fu.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Innews:hj1li45vn8vmohq6fms11aedkbpii775p4@4ax.com,
> > > > Pops Mear <PopsM...@here.usa>spewed forth:
>
> > > > > Expect a delay past Obama's Inauguration...Mission Accomplished
> > > > > Bushie.
>
> > > > Is your name juanita or sandra?
> > > > Are you really this stupid?
> > > > Why is it that your kind don't have a problem killing a baby
>
> > > Please don't use the ridiculous and absurd "killing a baby" argument
>
> > > I have never killed a baby nor have most of the people you rant
> > > against
>
> > > Now if you are talking about a woman's right to choose what to when
> > > faced with an unwanted pregnancy, what is it your business
>
> > > Regarding this guy, he is obviously a loser and a murderer but when we
> > > execute him, we become murderers too
>
> > > Life in prison is truly punishment enough
>
> > > And I find it quite interesting that those of you who are anti-
> > > abortion and say you are pro-life backed this war in Iraq...
>
> > Ahh, ahh, ahhhhh! The enemy is doing that!
>
> > > that killed
> > > tens of thousands of innocent people and made millions refugees.
>
> > >  How
> > > is that pro-life?
>
> > Yes, but Saddam was murdering them but the HUNDREDS of thousands.
> > Quite possibly the millions. And you know this, too. That is why I
> > have a hard time understanding how those on the left, who are
> > supposedly so up for human rights, find it difficult in not impossible
> > to support their nation when it comes to actually getting it done.
>

> Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights. It was
> about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
>

So... where IS the oil, oil, oil, OIL????

See... you might FEEL that way, but you can’t PROVE a thing.


> But all they have to do to you people is wave a boogeyman like Saddam
> to get you war mongers to salivate.
>


YOU people...? Who are YOU people? You mean THESE 'YOU' people...??



"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a
great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will
use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies
is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998


"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998


"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with
the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including,
if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to
respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its
weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom
Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998


"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of
mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region
and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998


"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999


"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In
addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is
doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-
range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
others, December 5, 2001


"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002


"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible
to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as
Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998


"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course
to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002


"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein
because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction
in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002


"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of
weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002


"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
This he has refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002


"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's
weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998


"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and
biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to
terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that
if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his
capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying
to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002


"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to
his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass
destruction is real ..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003


http://brentroos.com/2006/05/09/what-did-the-democrats-say-about-iraq...


Snopes backs all those quotes up, BTW.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp


So.... is it still about oil, oil, oil, OIL?? Because if it is, you'll
have to prove that each and every statement show above is a FAKE. Bet
you can't do that.



> Now, there is genocide around the world, why are you guys not
> clamoring for us to do something.
>

Do something? We WERE 'doing something' until you dreamers went to the
polls.



> > does it always work that way…? . I guess it’s the old adage… Democrat
> > bombs good; Republican bombs bad. More rotten turn-and-look-the-other-
> > way liberal hypocrisy. And another hallmark of their so-called
> > integrity.
>
> No, it is your hyporcisy.
>

Really...? Then how so? You supported this guy, didn’t you?

Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike
President CLINTON: "Good evening.
Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and
security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their
mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons
programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United
States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East
and around the world.

Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the
world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous
recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq;
why  we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.

Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no longer
cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM.
They are highly professional experts from dozens of countries. Their
job is to oversee the elimination of Iraq's capability to retain,
create and use weapons of mass destruction, and to verify that Iraq
does not attempt to rebuild that capability.

The inspectors undertook this mission first 7.5 years ago at the end
of the Gulf War when Iraq agreed to declare and destroy its arsenal as
a condition of the ceasefire.

The international community had good reason to set this requirement.
Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic
missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them.
Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian
troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but
against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel,
Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy,
but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern
Iraq.

The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt
today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible
weapons again.

The United States has patiently worked to preserve UNSCOM as Iraq has
sought to avoid its obligation to cooperate with the inspectors. On
occasion, we've had to threaten military force, and Saddam has backed
down.

Faced with Saddam's latest act of defiance in late October, we built
intensive diplomatic pressure on Iraq backed by overwhelming military
force in the region. The UN Security Council voted 15 to zero to
condemn Saddam's actions and to demand that he immediately come into
compliance."

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton...


> And remember, it was the Republicans during
> the eighties that supported and supplied Saddam and helped make him
> the monster that he was.
>

But he wasn't a monster then. And remember.. It was a failed democrat
president by the name of Jimmy Carter who let this whole thing blossom
into what it is to begin with. He was a pussy-assed coward who had no
business running a peanut farm let alone a country.

> > The other thing that those apposed to the war are doing is the same
> > thing that they did by the Vietnam war..
>
> Vietnam war?  Interfering in the internal affairs of another nation.
>

Yes indeed. A nation that was already divided by a civil war. And the
spread of communism was deemed a very real threat back in those days.
One worthy to go to war for. And remember... Kennedy, a democrat, was
the first to send actual fighting troops, and Johnson, another
democrat, escalated it sky-high. I always thought is as a miracle that
Nixon got us out after only two terms. Thank God for Republicans. I
mean… where would you democrats be without us?

> After dividing a country that should not have been divided, we
> supported a dictatorship.
>

Like always! Don’t you understand how American foreign policy works?
How old are you…? Ten?  It's always been that way and it's also
totally bi-partisan. Just like it always will be. Always and
forevermore. You'll see....

> > They are insuring a black
> > mark on the history of America. You are actually changing history to
> > an animal of your own choosing. And in the end, you will have created
> > hundreds of thousands of ex-GIs who ‘aren’t sure’ if what they did was
> > right or not. When they had to kill, butcher, burn and maim or be
> > fucking killed, butchered, burned or maimed. You people.... You're a
> > frigging DISEASE. Too bad you’re so contagious.
>
> What we did in Vietnam was not right.
>

I agree.. Thought so then. Still think so today. But Iraq is not
Vietnam, my friend. And don’t think it is, just because you happen to
hate your president for winning the 2000 election the way he did.

> We napalmed people, we dropped
> more bombs there than we did in WWII, we killed millions of people.
>

War is war, you know. I'm sure that the bad guys wouldn't have come
out in the open if we would have asked them to.  Even if we had asked
them nice.
 But since we obviously support free elections, I’ll have to leave the
outcome of that one to you nutty-assed people.


> For opposing the Vietnam war, we are a disease.
>

No. For opposing the Iraqi war, you are a disease. I just used Vietnam
as an illustrator for the kind of SHIT that you're going to needlessly
permeate our troops with. That's all.


> You sir are a fucking
> warmongering moron who doesn't understand history.
>

LOL..!!  Bet I’m older than you. Go off and contemplate your frigging
navel some more. Then come back and talk to me when you begin to
understand that it isn’t the center of the entire universe after all.


> You are truly a
> fucking idiot and the only disease is in your warped brain.
>
> Vietnam is a black mark on the history of America.  As was the
> overthrow of the governments of Iran and Chile and the Spanish-
> American war and Mexica war which was for the seizure of territory
> only.
> Yours sir is not a world view and your myopia is startling.- Hide quoted text -
>

It looks like it is YOU who need to go back to history class. All of
those nations originally got what we eventually took by warring. I
don't understand... This is the way the world... the entire world.....
works. But you're from Pepperland, I see. No wonder you hate your
country (and consequently yourself) so much.







The Nice Mean Man

On Nov 27, 3:14 am, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 12:23 am, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> > > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> > > my money.
> > > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> > > republican.
>
> > LOL...!!!
>
> > James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
>
> You are quoting a bible that is fraught with inconsistencies and
> absurdities.
>


LOL....!! That's the pot calling the kettle black. Nevertheless, it is
a true statment. You've proven it right here.

On Nov 27, 10:07 am, Al <albert.finney...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <6e79dfef-ec88-434e-b7d3-163eabb1c...@41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
>
>  bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> > of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights.  It was
> > about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
>
> Oddly enough, we haven't taken their oil, and they're forming a
> rerpresentative government.
>
> How do those facts fit with your "oil, oil, oil" theory?
>
>


Exaclty. But he'll never tell. It wouldn't sit well with his
Obamamania.

In article 
<f034c9a9-2090-4b22-8a52-f988b41b29fd@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
 The Nice Mean Man <hitherandyon@aol.com> wrote:

> On Nov 27, 10:07�am, Al <albert.finney...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <6e79dfef-ec88-434e-b7d3-163eabb1c...@41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > �bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero. �His invasion
> > > of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights. �It was
> > > about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
> >
> > Oddly enough, we haven't taken their oil, and they're forming a
> > rerpresentative government.
> >
> > How do those facts fit with your "oil, oil, oil" theory?
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Exaclty. But he'll never tell. It wouldn't sit well with his
> Obamamania.


Obama's gonna steal all the oil!

"The Nice Mean Man" <hitherandyon@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:54c1444b-a41b-4307-8479-9758731c5b0d@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone 
> in
> self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. 
> As
> for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do 
> with
> my money.
> And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not 
> a
> republican.
>

LOL...!!!

James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

*That's nice....quote from a book of fairy tales to make a point....though 
no one quite lnows what your point might be.

On Nov 27, 3:53 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 3:14 am, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 27, 12:23 am, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > > > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> > > > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > > > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> > > > my money.
> > > > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > > > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> > > > republican.
>
> > > LOL...!!!
>
> > > James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
>
> > You are quoting a bible that is fraught with inconsistencies and
> > absurdities.
>
> LOL....!! That's the pot calling the kettle black. Nevertheless, it is
> a true statment. You've proven it right here

Well, a nebulous statement from a very nebulous mind

On Nov 27, 3:52 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> > Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> > of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights. It was
> > about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
>
> So... where IS the oil, oil, oil, OIL????
>

In the ground.

> See... you might FEEL that way, but you can’t PROVE a thing.
>

Sure I can.  It has actually been admitted and based on the contracts
awarded and the way they were awarded you can draw no other
conclusion.

Are you saying that oil had nothing whatsoever to do with our
invasion?

> > But all they have to do to you people is wave a boogeyman like Saddam
> > to get you war mongers to salivate.
>
> YOU people...? Who are YOU people? You mean THESE 'YOU' people...??
>
> "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a
> great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will
> use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies
> is the greatest security threat we face."
> - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>

Were you a fan of the Clinton administration?  I doubt it so why are
you quoting them.

Bill Clinton destroyed Saddam's ability to produce nuclear, chemical
and biological weapons; the proof is that he didn't have any of them.

Saddam was contained and contained very well.  We didn't have to risk
the lives and sacrifice the lives of people who, unlike you, are not
cowards willing to send others to die

> "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
> times since 1983."
> - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
>

He didn't have WMDs

> "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with
> the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including,
> if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to
> respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its
> weapons of mass destruction programs."
> - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom
> Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
>

And we did respond effectively as evidenced by the fact that Saddam
didn't have WMDs
> So.... is it still about oil, oil, oil, OIL?? Because if it is, you'll
> have to prove that each and every statement show above is a FAKE. Bet
> you can't do that.
>

I don't have to prove it.  It has already been proven.  Show me one
WMD that we found in six years there.

One

> > Now, there is genocide around the world, why are you guys not
> > clamoring for us to do something.
>
> Do something? We WERE 'doing something' until you dreamers went to the
> polls.
>

What were we doing?

>
> Really...? Then how so? You supported this guy, didn’t you?
>

We supported this guy?  No you did.  There is not a picture of any
liberal Democrat shaking hands with Saddam; there is one of Donald
Rumsfeld doing that.

Check out all the stuff Reagan gave to Saddam.

No Democratic president did that.

> Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike
> President CLINTON: "Good evening.
> Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and
> security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their
> mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons
> programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
>

Vast difference in a targeted, selected strike that was effective with
an invasion that cost us 10 billion dollars a month and costs almost
five thousand American lives and tens of thousands of injured whose
lives are forever damaged

If you want to fight so much for Iraq, then take your chickenshit
chickenhawk cowardly cheerleading ass down to your nearest army
recruting station

On Nov 27, 8:12 pm, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 3:52 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> > > of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights. It was
> > > about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
>
> > So... where IS the oil, oil, oil, OIL????
>
> In the gro........................****


<SNIP>

You all make it so easy because each and every one of you are such
pussy-assed little feminized cowards. Each and every time, it never
fails. When you're ready to square off WITHOUT the benefit of personal
selective editing of my straight-forward post to you, THEN we'll talk!


Have a nice day, mister liberal/conservative democrat :}



The Nice Mean Man

On Nov 27, 7:22 pm, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> "The Nice Mean Man" <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:54c1444b-a41b-4307-8479-9758731c5b0d@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone
> > in
> > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again.
> > As
> > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do
> > with
> > my money.
> > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not
> > a
> > republican.
>
> LOL...!!!
>
> James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
>
> *That's nice....quote from a book of fairy tales to make a point....


Irrelevant.
>  though
> no one quite lnows what your point might be.

Oh, yes.. I think we're reaching JUST fine.  Oh, yes indeed...



TNMM

On Nov 27, 8:00 pm, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 3:53 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 27, 3:14 am, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 27, 12:23 am, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting someone in
> > > > > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us again. As
> > > > > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece of
> > > > > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do with
> > > > > my money.
> > > > > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > > > > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am not a
> > > > > republican.
>
> > > > LOL...!!!
>
> > > > James 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
>
> > > You are quoting a bible that is fraught with inconsistencies and
> > > absurdities.
>
> > LOL....!! That's the pot calling the kettle black. Nevertheless, it is
> > a true statment. You've proven it right here
>
> Well, a nebulous statement....
>

Where are you confused. Let me help you.


> from a very nebulous mind


Oh, yes.. I think we're reaching JUST fine.

On Nov 27, 11:07 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 8:12 pm, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 27, 3:52 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> > > > of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights. It was
> > > > about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
>
> > > So... where IS the oil, oil, oil, OIL????
>
> > In the gro........................****
>
> <SNIP>
>
> You all make it so easy because each and every one of you are such
> pussy-assed little feminized cowards. Each and every time, it never
> fails. When you're ready to square off WITHOUT the benefit of personal
> selective editing of my straight-forward post to you, THEN we'll talk!
>
> Have a nice day, mister liberal/conservative democrat :}
>
> The Nice Mean Man

Pussy-assed little feminized cowards?

Now tell me what brave and courageous things you have done to call
others cowards.

Have you risked your life fighting in Iraq like some of the pople you
call pussy-assed little feminized cowards or are you just a
chickenshit chickenhawk cowardly cheerleader who is so brave and
courageous and patriotic behind his little computer screen.

You asked me where the oil was, I gave you a straight-forward and
absoutely true answer which you did not like and cannot respond to
intelligently so you proceed with name calling and fifth grade stuff.

Next you will be holding your breath until you turn blue.

On Nov 27, 11:07 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 8:12 pm, bushlyed <bushl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 27, 3:52 pm, The Nice Mean Man <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Because of the motivation of the your illustrious hero.  His invasion
> > > > of Iraq had nothing, nada, zilch, zero about human rights. It was
> > > > about oil, oil, oil, oil, OIL and about revenge against Saddam.
>
> > > So... where IS the oil, oil, oil, OIL????
>
> > In the gro........................****
>
> <SNIP>
>
> You all make it so easy because each and every one of you are such
> pussy-assed little feminized cowards. Each and every time, it never
> fails. When you're ready to square off WITHOUT the benefit of personal
> selective editing of my straight-forward post to you, THEN we'll talk!
>
> Have a nice day, mister liberal/conservative democrat :}
>
> The Nice Mean Man

Now personal selective editing.

You asked where the oil is and I told you it was in the ground.

It is in the ground waiting to be exploited by imperialists like your
neocons and their oil companies:

#1   Saudi Arabia: 262,700,000,000 barrels
#2   Canada: 178,900,000,000 barrels
#3   Iran: 133,300,000,000 barrels
#4   Iraq: 112,500,000,000 barrels
#5   United Arab Emirates: 97,800,000,000 barrels
#6   Kuwait: 96,500,000,000 barrels
#7   Venezuela: 75,590,000,000 barrels
#8   Russia: 69,000,000,000 barrels
#9   Libya: 40,000,000,000 barrels
#10   Nigeria: 36,000,000,000 barrels
#11   Mexico: 33,310,000,000 barrels
#12   Kazakhstan: 26,000,000,000 barrels
#13   Angola: 25,000,000,000 barrels
#14   United States: 22,450,000,000 barrels
#15   China: 18,260,000,000 barrels


Above is a list of countries by oil reserves.  You will notice that
Iraq is fourth.

That is a lot of money under the ground, a lot of energy.

Wars have been started for far less.

"The Nice Mean Man" <hitherandyon@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:7093b7a0-85e2-46d9-b4dd-f76b0724feac@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 27, 7:22 pm, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
> "The Nice Mean Man" <hitherand...@aol.com> wrote in 
> messagenews:54c1444b-a41b-4307-8479-9758731c5b0d@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 25, 9:27 am, "Chris" <vscooternos...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > Killing a killer does not make us murderers anymore than shooting 
> > someone
> > in
> > self defense does. We are killing him before he can kill one of us 
> > again.
> > As
> > for life in prison.....why the hell should we pay to support this piece 
> > of
> > shit for the rest of his life. I can think of much better things to do
> > with
> > my money.
> > And before you ask.....I am pro choice,pro gun,anti-illegal immigration,
> > anti-bush and anti-stupidity in general.....funny thing is though I am 
> > not
> > a
> > republican.
>
> LOL...!!!
>
> James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
>
> *That's nice....quote from a book of fairy tales to make a point....


Irrelevant.

*No, quite relevant. Where you choose to get your quotes says a lot about 
your thought pattern. An besides that, your quote does not even apply to me. 
I am of a single mind.....you on the other hand....

>  though
> no one quite lnows what your point might be.

Oh, yes.. I think we're reaching JUST fine.  Oh, yes indeed...

*The only thing you are reaching is the end of your sanity....



TNMM