🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:51:09 -0000, Ken Brassner
<javaNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Alas we are headed to Nichol's a few block from work. no rabbit, 
>no prime rib.....snif.

But home of the best denver omelette in town.

J.

In la.eats D. Gerasimatos <dim@csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:

<snip>

> Overall, I'd say we were both disappointed with our meals. The service
>was  merely adequate. The dining room was loud and the decor was nice,
but > unremarkable. Prices were fair and portions were large. The pacing
of the meal > could've been a lot better. Having to wait to be seated,
receiving our > wine long before any food was brought out, and waiting a
while between > courses made dining awkward. I often sat there at the
table nursing a glass > of wine with nothing but bread (unremarkable, by
the way) before me.

> Tra Vigne certainly served a nice Italian meal that steered away from the
> assortment of pastas commonly encountered at Italian restaurants. Other
> courses included crab legs - which our waiter said we should have "if we really
> want to mess up the table", striped bass, a sort of Mediterranean sea bass, 
> chicken, and yes, some pastas. However, given the dining options in Napa
> and the surrounding area I would dine elsewhere next time in search of a
> little bit more refined experience. 

Our two experiences at Tra Vigne were both disappointing and, yes,
there are many terrific restaurants in the area where I'd rather dine,
including Bistro Jeanty, Miramonte, Mustards Grill, Terra and Bouchon.

In article <b0slur$9jn$1@reader1.panix.com>, Varda  <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>In la.eats D. Gerasimatos <dim@csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>Our two experiences at Tra Vigne were both disappointing and, yes,
>there are many terrific restaurants in the area where I'd rather dine,
>including Bistro Jeanty, Miramonte, Mustards Grill, Terra and Bouchon.


The next night we ate at Bistro Jeanty. I can't say the experience there was
that great either. Perhaps I'll write a (shorter) review of that when I
have time. The best meal of our entire trip was at a place we expected the
least from - the dining room of the Ahwahnee Hotel in Yosemite. It's
surprising that LA restaurants like Melisse, L'Orangerie, Chinois, Spago,
Water Grill, and "even" Campanile and Chaya Venice are able to compare so
favorably with restaurants designed with foodie, wine-drinking types in mind -
especially with all the competition in Napa/Sonoma. It gave me a much
better appreciation of the restaurants in Los Angeles. I guess next time 
we'll have to try French Laundry. ;)


Dimitri

"D. Gerasimatos" <dim@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:b0sp1v$2gc5$1@agate.berkeley.edu...

> The best meal of our entire trip was at a place we expected the
> least from - the dining room of the Ahwahnee Hotel in Yosemite.

I've never been impressed by any meal I've had at the Ahwahnee.

Their Sunday brunch buffets have a good selection of good food,
but every time I've ordered from the menu I have been unhappy
with the food.

I used to like Tra Vigne, but have not been there for about
five years, so it may well have gone downhill.

In article <v33sar1gfpin32@news.supernews.com>,
Pete Fraser <pfraser@covad.net> wrote:
>
>"D. Gerasimatos" <dim@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
>news:b0sp1v$2gc5$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
>> The best meal of our entire trip was at a place we expected the
>> least from - the dining room of the Ahwahnee Hotel in Yosemite.
>
>I've never been impressed by any meal I've had at the Ahwahnee.
>
>Their Sunday brunch buffets have a good selection of good food,
>but every time I've ordered from the menu I have been unhappy
>with the food.


We ate lunch and dinner at the Ahwahnee. Lunch was nothing special. Dinner
was excellent. Service was not the best (they don't even have a sommelier),
but the food was excellent. I had a sturgeon and caviar appetizer that was
fantastic. My girlfriend had scallops in curry and coconut milk, which were
also very good. Everything was quite good and some of the selections on the
wine list (which was acceptable if not deserving of the Wine Spectator
award it received) were well-priced.


Like I said above, I had low-ish expectations. However, it ended up
being a surprisingly good meal. Perhaps this is because it was Chef's
Holidays and they were cooking to impress their visitors (who would be
cooking the next day)?


Dimitri

In article <v33sar1gfpin32@news.supernews.com>,
Pete Fraser <pfraser@covad.net> wrote:
>I've never been impressed by any meal I've had at the Ahwahnee.

Our meal at Ahwahnee was OK; my review is online somewhere, I think.
There's just no way it can be considered one of the state's best
restaurants, unless you heavily factor the setting.  I'd certainly
rather eat at Bistro Jeanty.

Tra Vigne is really a restaurant for big meat dishes, which isn't
what I was expecting, but they do cook a good meat -- short ribs,
say.  I'll be eating in St. Helena next month, I think, and will
probably opt for Miramonte.

In article <b0un8t$9bm$1@machaut.medieval.org>,
Todd Michel McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>
>Our meal at Ahwahnee was OK; my review is online somewhere, I think.
>There's just no way it can be considered one of the state's best
>restaurants, unless you heavily factor the setting.  I'd certainly
>rather eat at Bistro Jeanty.


I don't think anyone considers the Ahwahnee one of the state's best
restaurants. It was, however, better than Bistro Jeanty. Easily. Whatever
you think of the food at Jeanty, the atmosphere is terrible. Some
reviewers have compared it to Chuck E. Cheese and that's not far off the
mark. For some reason people thought it was cool to laugh their fool heads
off as loud as is possible. Given the proximity of the tables, the food
would have to be pretty damn good (or cheap) to tolerate that. It was
definitely not cheap. Neither was it really all that good, except for the
signature tomato tart. I realize the chef is trying to create a
neighborhood French restaurant, but even given that I wouldn't venture in
there again. We wished we had gone to Bouchon down the block instead.


Dimitri

In article <b0vghe$8m0$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
D. Gerasimatos <dim@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>Whatever you think of the food at Jeanty, the atmosphere is terrible.

I'm mainly concerned with the food.  Admittedly, sitting near loud,
obnoxious people is unpleasant, and can be a difficult quandary for
any restaurant.  I haven't personally had that problem at Bistro
Jeanty.  We also particularly like some of the dishes, such as the
pig's feet.

The test I'm applying here is very simple:  If the restaurant were
in my town, would I go?  Bistro Jeanty, yes.  Ahwahnee, no.  (Tra
Vigne rates a maybe.)

In article <b0vl7q$a33$1@machaut.medieval.org>,
Todd Michel McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>
>I'm mainly concerned with the food.  Admittedly, sitting near loud,
>obnoxious people is unpleasant, and can be a difficult quandary for
>any restaurant.  I haven't personally had that problem at Bistro
>Jeanty.  We also particularly like some of the dishes, such as the
>pig's feet.


Of course the food is the main concern, but my point is that a similar
meal can be obtained many other, more pleasant places. If the food was
so much better than the competition then perhaps the atmosphere would be
less important. It isn't. Or perhaps if it was so much cheaper than the
competition then the atmosphere could be ignored. It isn't. So what is
the allure? It's a good restaurant, but not distinguished in any way.


>The test I'm applying here is very simple:  If the restaurant were
>in my town, would I go?  Bistro Jeanty, yes.  Ahwahnee, no.  (Tra
>Vigne rates a maybe.)


Kind of a silly test. This depends a lot on your town first of all. That
aside, there are restaurants I frequent for cheap fare that I still don't
consider all that good - and there are far better restaurants that I do
not visit because at that price point there are better alternatives. I
found both Bistro Jeanty and Tra Vigne to be average for their price
points. That is, neither of them were bad enough to rule out another
visit. However, neither of them were good enough to halt my search for
something better. If the only three restaurants in my town were Jeanty,
Tra Vigne, and the Ahwahnee then, based on my recent meals, I'd probably
go to all three. However, if I wanted to treat myself to a special night
out I'd choose Ahwahnee over the other two. Of course, this is based on
only a single meal at each.


Dimitri

D. Gerasimatos wrote:

> I
> found both Bistro Jeanty and Tra Vigne to be average for their price
> points. That is, neither of them were bad enough to rule out another
> visit. However, neither of them were good enough to halt my search for
> something better. 

Never eaten at Tra Vigne; but I'd agree about Bistro Jeanty from my 
one lunch there.  Better than average authentic French bistro food; 
but for the price not good enough.  On the other hand, La Toque in 
Rutherford (it once had an incarnation here in L.A.) was very 
expensive and worth every penny, both in terms of service and food. 
  I had the tasting menu which combined wines with the food for each 
course; and it was one of the great meals of my life.  And the 
tables were extraordinarily widely spaced, leading to a feeling of 
opulence that was perfect for a special Napa food experience (yes, 
French Laundry, I'm putting you down in comparison).  This was over 
a year ago; so I don't know if things are different now.

-- 
--Ken Rudolph

In article <b11gel$p59$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
D. Gerasimatos <dim@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>So what is the allure?  It's a good restaurant, but not distinguished
>in any way.

We particularly like their menu, and aren't alone.  When we've had
"best Napa restaurant" discussions, Bistro Jeanty has been getting
some votes, so we aren't alone.  Maybe LA people have different
preferences.

I've not known anyone to vote for Tra Vigne as the best, on the
other hand (or La Toque, until this thread).

>Kind of a silly test. This depends a lot on your town first of all.

My town is rather unremarkable.  The existing options, aside from
the fact that there are some, don't have a big impact on the test.
It is just my way to disassociate a restaurant experience from its
location.

In article <b11icd$bgg$1@machaut.medieval.org>, Todd Michel McComb
<mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:

> In article <b11gel$p59$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> D. Gerasimatos <dim@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> >So what is the allure?  It's a good restaurant, but not distinguished
> >in any way.
> 
> We particularly like their menu, and aren't alone.  When we've had
> "best Napa restaurant" discussions, Bistro Jeanty has been getting
> some votes, so we aren't alone.  Maybe LA people have different
> preferences.

Each time I go back to Napa, it's more crowded with tourists and
tourist trap shops. (I go about every couple of years...probably less
often now that the transformation to theme park has progressed so far.)

This last time we drove as far as Calistoga looking for a value meal.
Ended up paying $15 each for burgers in a "tres rustic" converted
barn.It was a relief to head past the petrified forest and get over to
Santa Rosa, a semi-real town.

Napa in the mid-70s was a fun place to visit. Wine tasting, funky
stores, and uncrowded country roads. Today, traffic jams even in
mid-week. And most of the stores and shops look artificially "quaint."

I read an interesting book about the situation in Napa: "The Far Side
of Eden," by Conaway. Here's a telling anecdote: a woman from the East
Coast took her huge divorce settlement and built a hillside chateau so
she could fulfill her dream of raising goats and making "chevre" for
the Napa Valley restaurants. (No doubt she has plenty of serfs to do
the actual goat raising and cheese-making.) 

This is the world of boutique wineries, dot commers pressing olives,
and divorcees paying ten million dollars to be able to sell $734 worth
of chevre to Bistro Jeanty.

Why doesn't Disney just buy the entire valley, and the Napa Train, and
rename it Main Street, Walt Disney's Napa California Adventure?

--Tim May

Tim May writes:
> Here's a telling anecdote: a woman from the East Coast took her huge
> divorce settlement and built a hillside chateau so she could fulfill
> her dream of raising goats and making "chevre" for the Napa Valley
> restaurants.

How's this different from you taking your huge tech stock package and
buying a rural shack with a DSL line so you can fulfill your dream of
raising guns and making "flames" for the bay area newsgroups?

                                        David desJardins

Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote in news:260120031338472541%tcmay@got.net:


> This last time we drove as far as Calistoga looking for a value meal.
> Ended up paying $15 each for burgers in a "tres rustic" converted
> barn.It was a relief to head past the petrified forest and get over to
> Santa Rosa, a semi-real town.

Next time you go to Napa, you have to go to the deli in St. Helena.  I 
don't know the name but AFIK it's the only deli they have.  It has two 
tables at the windows (more sitting out back), tons of posters and stuff on 
the walls and the absolutely BEST sandwiches I've ever had (tons of choices 
of breads, meats, cheeses & toppings).  They're pretty cheap too - don't 
remember how much but certainly less than $15!  Parking can be a problem 
but we always manage to find a spot.  The sandwiches are so good that since 
we discovered the deli, we've never eaten anywhere else when we go to the 
area.  

-- 
Margarita Lacabe - marga@lacabe.com - http://www.lacabe.com/marga/
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mommy to Michaela Libertad - http://www.mikesbaby.com/ 

Margarita Lacabe  <marga@lacabe.com> wrote:

>Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote in news:260120031338472541%tcmay@got.net:

>> This last time we drove as far as Calistoga looking for a value meal.
>> Ended up paying $15 each for burgers in a "tres rustic" converted
>> barn.It was a relief to head past the petrified forest and get over to
>> Santa Rosa, a semi-real town.

>Next time you go to Napa, you have to go to the deli in St. Helena.  I 
>don't know the name but AFIK it's the only deli they have.  It has two 
>tables at the windows (more sitting out back), tons of posters and stuff on 
>the walls and the absolutely BEST sandwiches I've ever had (tons of choices 
>of breads, meats, cheeses & toppings).  They're pretty cheap too - don't 
>remember how much but certainly less than $15!

Then there's the tamales from La Luna Market, in Rutherford.  
(Which I hope is still there....)

Steve
>but we always manage to find a spot.  The sandwiches are so good that since 
>we discovered the deli, we've never eaten anywhere else when we go to the 
>area.  
>
>-- 
>Margarita Lacabe - marga@lacabe.com - http://www.lacabe.com/marga/
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mommy to Michaela Libertad - http://www.mikesbaby.com/ 

> Why doesn't Disney just buy the entire valley, and the Napa Train, and
> rename it Main Street, Walt Disney's Napa California Adventure?
>
> --Tim May

Could you folks stop crossposting to la.eats on this thread?  Thanks.

In article <rt1Z9.764$%A3.77881479@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, Kevin
<kwerner16@prodigy.net> wrote:

> > Why doesn't Disney just buy the entire valley, and the Napa Train, and
> > rename it Main Street, Walt Disney's Napa California Adventure?
> >
> > --Tim May
> 
> Could you folks stop crossposting to la.eats on this thread?  Thanks.

One of your la.eats posters was the one who added ba.food to his
original post. We are merely writing replies.

---Tim May

Kevin wrote:
> 
> > Why doesn't Disney just buy the entire valley, and the Napa Train, and
> > rename it Main Street, Walt Disney's Napa California Adventure?
> >
> > --Tim May
> 
> Could you folks stop crossposting to la.eats on this thread?  Thanks.

This thread was started and maintained by crossposting la.eats 
regulars (one posted today, as a matter of fact) - kindly 
make your wishes known to them by private email.

I suspect that they will jump back into the discussion come Monday.

It may help you in general to switch to a newsreader that makes it
easier to ignore unwanted threads than does Outlook. 

-- 
mjdix@sonic.net

In article <b0q9vd$1pve$1@agate.berkeley.edu>, D. Gerasimatos
<dim@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:

> Overall, I'd say we were both disappointed with our meals. The
> service was merely adequate. The dining room was loud and the decor
> was nice, but unremarkable. Prices were fair and portions were large.
> The pacing of the meal could've been a lot better. Having to wait to
> be seated, receiving our wine long before any food was brought out,
> and waiting a while between courses made dining awkward. I often sat
> there at the table nursing a glass of wine with nothing but bread
> (unremarkable, by the way) before me.
> 
> Tra Vigne certainly served a nice Italian meal that steered away from
> the assortment of pastas commonly encountered at Italian restaurants.
> Other courses included crab legs - which our waiter said we should
> have "if we really want to mess up the table", striped bass, a sort
> of Mediterranean sea bass, chicken, and yes, some pastas. However,
> given the dining options in Napa and the surrounding area I would
> dine elsewhere next time in search of a little bit more refined
> experience. 

A good review. We ate there a few years back and had a fabulous meal
with excellent service.

It was a dark and rainy night--honestly!  We drove around looking for
someplace to eat.  It looked promising.  No reservations, and the place
was packed. There was but a single two-top over over by the bar.  We
were seated immediately.  I remember the help as courtous,
knowledgeable and engaging, but not overly so.  I really find that
unnecessarily personal approach (anecdotes and stock "patter") rapidly
irritating and then find myself having to specifically freeze them out
so as to be able to focus on the companion I selected personally--my
wife! Having to concentrate on being frosty with someone is a drag.

But the food was stunning in all respects; bread, wine, and I remember
my wife got the rabbit and raved about it. I've forgotten what I got
but it was most satisfying.  I even liked the tile bathrooms!

It's been a good 5 years though. I hope it was just an off night, cause
I'd like to eat there again one day.

-- 
///--- Nazodesu no more.

In article <rt1Z9.764$%A3.77881479@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, "Kevin"
<kwerner16@prodigy.net> wrote:

> > Why doesn't Disney just buy the entire valley, and the Napa Train, and
> > rename it Main Street, Walt Disney's Napa California Adventure?
> >
> > --Tim May
> 
> Could you folks stop crossposting to la.eats on this thread?  Thanks.

That's funny.  The original post came from la.food, and was cross-posted
to ba.food.

-- 
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
dabel@sonic.net

On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 03:13:27 GMT, Kevin <kwerner16@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Could you folks stop crossposting to la.eats on this thread?  Thanks.
> 

	Just because you don't want to read this thread in
la.eats, it doesn't mean we all do.

	If you don't like the thread, mark it as read, ignore it,
or kill file it.

	See. You have a choice.

ObFood: Killer fish tacos at Nazo tacos in Baldwin Park yesterday.

-- 
I know you'll have problems with LaTeX since it's free and therefore spreads
communism, homosexuality, and Islam; but try and keep an open mind, hmm?
-- Jason Sullivan

Speaking of fish tacos, my brother used to live in Hermosa Beach and
now lives in Manhattan Beach, roughly across from Sharkeez, a popular
nightclub/dive/beach bar.

Good fish tacos at "Wahoo's." Better than Rubio's, IMO. (Rubio's has
migrated up to the Bay Area as well...I don't think Wahoo's has, though
they were featured in some national television commericials for some
product or another a while back.)

Good breakfasts at Local Yolk, the Beach Hut (small), and Sharkeez, all
in the El Porto district, near the power station.

The Local Yolk is my favorite place to just hang out on a balmy late
morning, reading the newspaper and enjoying the scene. 

Manhattan is definitely even more of a "pure" surfer scene that Santa
Cruz, where I live (near), is.

--Tim May

dabel@sonic.net (Dan Abel) wrote in message news:<dabel-2701030827460001@ssu-64en129.sonoma.edu>...
> That's funny.  The original post came from la.food, and was cross-posted
> to ba.food.

... can't we all just get along? ...

Karen

On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:49:47 -0800, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote:
> Sounds like this place:
> 
Edited:
> From: Marcy Harbut (gethappy@mail.earthlink.net )
> Subject: Re: Fish Tacos 
> Newsgroups: la.eats 
> Date: 1999/01/21 

> El Taco Nazo in Baldwin Park . 

> Taco Nazo was a favorite joint of mine and my co-workers
> when I worked in West Covina...I'll never forget watching the guy behind
> the counter frying battered fishing in a huge vat of oil (I tried not to
> think of the possibility that it was lard). Killer white sauce too.
> About three would fill me up. Sorry I don't have the cross-streets, but
> I'm sure they're listed.

	The cross streets are Ramina Boulevard and Maine. Parking
front and rear.

-- 
I know you'll have problems with LaTeX since it's free and therefore spreads
communism, homosexuality, and Islam; but try and keep an open mind, hmm?
-- Jason Sullivan

Tim May  <tcmay@got.net> writes:

> Good fish tacos at "Wahoo's." Better than Rubio's, IMO. (Rubio's
> has migrated up to the Bay Area as well [...]


The only Rubio's I've noticed up here so far is a stall in the food
court at Valley Fair (er, "Westfield Shoppingtown At Valley Fair").
Until now, I had no idea it was anything other than a mall operation
along the lines of, say, Panda Express.

I don't claim to be an expert on fish tacos, but I tried theirs and
wasn't terribly impressed.  Maybe my expectations had been raised
unrealistically by the way people tend to rave about fish tacos in
general.  Definitely no foodasm here, sorry.




Geoff

-- 
"Mormon Family Trying To Ignore Dog's Huge Boner" -- The Onion

geoffm@u1.netgate.net (Geoff Miller) wrote in message news:<b16ikm$brm@u1.netgate.net>...

> 
> I don't claim to be an expert on fish tacos...

This is indeed difficult to believe in view of what Hemmingway has
written about you; not to mention your "musings of a genius" in
ba.food.
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff