🚀 go-pugleaf

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:04:35 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley 
<meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> Uzbekistan isn't just a country -- it's a restaurant! The one we ate 
> at last night, to be precise, on the corner of Sunset and La Brea.

	It has been in that strip mall for more years than many
of its neighbours.

>
> I'd like to think that the clientele at Uzbekistan are refugees 
> from the inhuman regime of Islam "Boil the People!" Karimov, but it 
> looked more like a mobster hangout to me.  No matter -- but still.

	There's a reason it looks like a mobster hangout, it's a
mobster hangout.

	That being said, I ate their once with a buddy who used
to shoot a machine gun for the Taliba... er Mujahadeen freedom
fighters, in the days when they were good guys and our best
friends. He told me that back in the days of the Evil Empire,
that was before the Axis of Evil, Moscow Aparatchiks (and no
doubt mobsters), favoured Uzbek food.

	I hear that in Moscow these days sushi is the fave of
mobsters and aparatch... er politicians.
>
> Rule number one when eating Uzbeki: order less. No, seriously, 
> whatever you're eyeing on the menu, halve it. Not only are portions 
> huge (a "cup" of soup is 12oz, a "bowl" a bit over a pint), but 
> the meal starts out with a giant loaf of delicious bread and 
> cheese spread. And whatever's on the table, you're going to want 
> to eat. 

	What they have no idea about at that restaurant is
"portion control", if you are an eater with no self control, I
highly reccomend this place.

>
> I had solianka (one of my favorite soups ever -- and it's even 
> better here than at Traktir, near Santa Monica and Fairfax), and 
> the Resident Lurker had some other funky soup, which he reports 
> was saved by its wonderful dumplings.

	They do good dumplings there.

>
> For our appetizers, we had blini with caviar (hard to beat that -- and
> yes, I know that Uzbekistan doesn't border on the Caspian, but I
> have it on good authority that they eat a lot of caviar) parmuda 
> (very much like knishes), and bugina, a roast pork loin. The bugina 
> was supposed to be served with horseradish but wasn't -- and it was 
> both dry and dull. Once Himself asked for the horseradish, though, 
> it was much improved: I'd say it went from a 4 to a 8 on a scale of 10.

	Pork loin certainly doesn't seem very Islamic. But, you
gotta feed the comrades what they desire.

	Time for me to visit again. Although the restaurant is in
a dodgy neighbourhood, you can get in and out with little grief.


-- 
The coke habit in the US alone was worth $35 billion in 2000 - about $10
billion more than Microsoft brought in that year. - Joshua Davis, Wired Mag

In article <slrne35uos.bg5.julian@bongo.tele.com>,
Julian Macassey  <julian@tele.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:04:35 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley 
><meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>> Uzbekistan isn't just a country -- it's a restaurant! The one we ate 
>> at last night, to be precise, on the corner of Sunset and La Brea.
>
[snip!]
>
>	Time for me to visit again. Although the restaurant is in
>a dodgy neighbourhood, you can get in and out with little grief.


Sunset and La Brea is dodgy?! 


Dimitri

"D. Gerasimatos" wrote:

> >       Time for me to visit again. Although the restaurant is in
> >a dodgy neighbourhood, you can get in and out with little grief.
>
> Sunset and La Brea is dodgy?!
>

Maybe to somebody from Simi, but come on, this is LA.

On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 01:47:20 +0000 (UTC), D. Gerasimatos 
<dim@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> In article <slrne35uos.bg5.julian@bongo.tele.com>,
> Julian Macassey  <julian@tele.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:04:35 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley 
>><meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>> Uzbekistan isn't just a country -- it's a restaurant! The one we ate 
>>> at last night, to be precise, on the corner of Sunset and La Brea.
>>
> [snip!]
>>
>>	Time for me to visit again. Although the restaurant is in
>>a dodgy neighbourhood, you can get in and out with little grief.
>
>
> Sunset and La Brea is dodgy?! 

	Especially La Brea north of Sunset. A friend was mugged
there a few years ago. It is not a great place late at night.


-- 
The coke habit in the US alone was worth $35 billion in 2000 - about $10
billion more than Microsoft brought in that year. - Joshua Davis, Wired Mag

Julian wrote, of Uzbekistan:
>>Time for me to visit again. Although the restaurant is in
>>a dodgy neighbourhood, you can get in and out with little grief.

Dimitri writes:
>Sunset and La Brea is dodgy?! 

Heh -- I was just about to accuse Julian of trolling[1] you.  My 
fabulous initiation to la.eats was the Great Bad Neighborhood Flame
War of 2004, and how I miss it.


Rage away,

meg



[1] Pace, Geoffski.  Language has changed a bit since the corset days
when you learned English.
-- 

Meg Worley  _._  meg@steam.stanford.edu  _._  Comparatively Literate

Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 01:47:20 +0000 (UTC), D. Gerasimatos
> <dim@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> > In article <slrne35uos.bg5.julian@bongo.tele.com>,
> > Julian Macassey  <julian@tele.com> wrote:
> >>On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:04:35 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley
> >><meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> >>> Uzbekistan isn't just a country -- it's a restaurant! The one we ate
> >>> at last night, to be precise, on the corner of Sunset and La Brea.
> >>
> > [snip!]
> >>
> >>	Time for me to visit again. Although the restaurant is in
> >>a dodgy neighbourhood, you can get in and out with little grief.
> >
> >
> > Sunset and La Brea is dodgy?!
>
> 	Especially La Brea north of Sunset. A friend was mugged
> there a few years ago. It is not a great place late at night.

One mugging in a few years?  They are getting the safe neighborhood
award.


>
>
> --
> The coke habit in the US alone was worth $35 billion in 2000 - about $10
> billion more than Microsoft brought in that year. - Joshua Davis, Wired Mag

On 4 Apr 2006 21:51:21 -0700, PeterL <po.ning@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Julian Macassey wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 01:47:20 +0000 (UTC), D. Gerasimatos
>> <dim@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Sunset and La Brea is dodgy?!
>>
>> 	Especially La Brea north of Sunset. A friend was mugged
>> there a few years ago. It is not a great place late at night.
>
> One mugging in a few years?  They are getting the safe neighborhood
> award.

	One that I personally know of. I used to live about a
mile or two away. That part of Sunset is not known as a good part
of town. Don Henly even wrote a song about it.

	

-- 
The coke habit in the US alone was worth $35 billion in 2000 - about $10
billion more than Microsoft brought in that year. - Joshua Davis, Wired Mag

Meg Worley <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> writes:

> [1] Pace, Geoffski.  Language has changed a bit since the
> corset days when you learned English.


Excuse me?  You've seen my picture; I doubt I'm much, if at all, 
older than you are.  Besides, I don't take issue with the way
you used "troll," i.e., as a verb.  My objection regarding that
word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
"troll"; he's a *troller.*



Geoff

-- 
"I don't even buy the dictionary unless 'fist'
 is defined as a verb." -- Dan Hillman
					

Geoff Miller wrote:
>  A person who trolls isn't a
> "troll"; he's a *troller.*
This from a country that uses disrespect as a verb.
>

Sigh, none of you seem to write English correctly, your punctuation is 
pitiful and us English have to read this, knowing that the language is 
doomed to evolve to the standards of the lowest common denominator :-)

T

In article <e10i3m$2j0@u1.netgate.net>, Geoff Miller
<geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote:

> Meg Worley <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> writes:
> 
> > [1] Pace, Geoffski.  Language has changed a bit since the
> > corset days when you learned English.
> 
> 
> Excuse me?  You've seen my picture; I doubt I'm much, if at all, 
> older than you are.  Besides, I don't take issue with the way
> you used "troll," i.e., as a verb.  My objection regarding that
> word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
> "troll"; he's a *troller.*

Back formations, even accidental intersections with established words,
are what makes a language rich(er). Akin to punning.

Trolling as a noun, derived from trawling, trolling, as in fishing,
back-forms a connection to the Old Norse/folk legend image of a troll. 

The Wikipedia puts it well:

"The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning,
drawn from the "trolls", which are portrayed in Scandinavian folklore,
and children's tales, as often ugly, obnoxious creatures that are bent
on wickedness and mischief. The image of the troll under the bridge in
the "Three Billy Goats Gruff" emphasizes the troll's negative reaction
to outsiders intruding on its physical environment, particularly those
who intend to graze in its domain without permission."


--Tim May

jeremy  <jeremy@dcnet2000.com> writes:

: A person who trolls isn't a "troll"; he's a *troller.*

> This from a country that uses disrespect as a verb.

Nice attempt at diversion.  I never said that *I* approve of using
"disrespect" as a verb.  Obviously some words are both verbs and 
nouns, one topical example being "cook."  But it doesn't follow 
that therefore, *all* nouns are also verbs.


> Sigh, none of you seem to write English correctly, your punctuation is 
> pitiful and us English have to read this, knowing that the language is 
> doomed to evolve to the standards of the lowest common denominator :-)

Seeing as how we're not only the dominant English-speaking nation, but
in fact the mightiest nation-state in the history of the planet, perhaps
it's time that our form of the language officially displaced yours as the
canonical one.  



Geoff

-- 
"I don't even buy the dictionary unless 'fist'
 is defined as a verb." -- Dan Hillman
					

In article <04SYf.66826$dW3.27197@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
jeremy  <jeremy@dcnet2000.com> wrote:
>Sigh, none of you seem to write English correctly, your punctuation is 
>pitiful and us English have to read this, knowing that the language is 
>doomed to evolve to the standards of the lowest common denominator :-)

The correct usage in this case is "we English," not "us English." You
must work harder if you wish to defend the language.
-- 
David Arnstein                    |        Have fun with your spams:
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com         |        http://www.bluesecurity.com

arnstein@panix.com (David Arnstein) writes:

>In article <04SYf.66826$dW3.27197@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>jeremy  <jeremy@dcnet2000.com> wrote:
>>Sigh, none of you seem to write English correctly, your punctuation is 
>>pitiful and us English have to read this, knowing that the language is 
>>doomed to evolve to the standards of the lowest common denominator :-)

>The correct usage in this case is "we English," not "us English." You
>must work harder if you wish to defend the language.

Well gosh you must have not noticed that he also probably should
have used semicolons and also a colon dash close parenthesis is
not legitimate punctuation oh and also sigh used as apparently
an interjection is not correct english either and i am not 
punctuating this on purpose and also its a runon sentence the end
-- 
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch,    Joe
.. or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to        Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances."          Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution           University

Tim May <timcmay@removethis.got.net> writes:

>In article <e10i3m$2j0@u1.netgate.net>, Geoff Miller
><geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote:

>> Meg Worley <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> writes:
>> 
>> > [1] Pace, Geoffski.  Language has changed a bit since the
>> > corset days when you learned English.


>> Excuse me?  You've seen my picture; I doubt I'm much, if at all, 
>> older than you are.  Besides, I don't take issue with the way
>> you used "troll," i.e., as a verb.  My objection regarding that
>> word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
>> "troll"; he's a *troller.*

>Back formations, even accidental intersections with established words,
>are what makes a language rich(er). Akin to punning.

>Trolling as a noun, derived from trawling, trolling, as in fishing,
>back-forms a connection to the Old Norse/folk legend image of a troll. 

I like it too, now, although I was big on that objection for some
time myself.  

Also *technically* the proper use of "trolling" is that you
troll a bait, and troll *for* fish.  So properly you would 
say "I'm trolling for n00bs" or "I'm trolling this obvious
mispeling to get pedants" but not "you have been trolled",
which is a good case for not insisting on proper usage.



-- 
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch,    Joe
.. or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to        Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances."          Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution           University

meg@steam.Stanford.EDU (Meg Worley) writes:

>and superpricy twee cocktails.  And charging $5 for chips and
>salsa (or $9 for a flight of salsas[2]).

Flight of salsas, fiery crudite
Catch the chip, rise out of sight
Flight of salsas, cheddar and Monterey
Pain tomorrow but great tonight

-- 
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch,    Joe
.. or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to        Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances."          Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution           University

Joseph Michael Bay wrote:

> Also *technically* the proper use of "trolling" is that you
> troll a bait, and troll *for* fish.  So properly you would
> say "I'm trolling for n00bs" or "I'm trolling this obvious
> mispeling to get pedants" but not "you have been trolled",
> which is a good case for not insisting on proper usage.

How did trawling turn into trolling and how was the troll (as in gnome)
named after trolling?

Karen

On 5 Apr 2006 15:43:49 -0700, Karen <ksoa650@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Joseph Michael Bay wrote:
>
>> Also *technically* the proper use of "trolling" is that you
>> troll a bait, and troll *for* fish.  So properly you would
>> say "I'm trolling for n00bs" or "I'm trolling this obvious
>> mispeling to get pedants" but not "you have been trolled",
>> which is a good case for not insisting on proper usage.
>
> How did trawling turn into trolling and how was the troll (as in gnome)
> named after trolling?

	Trolling is seperate from trawling. One uses a net and
one a line.


-- 
The coke habit in the US alone was worth $35 billion in 2000 - about $10
billion more than Microsoft brought in that year. - Joshua Davis, Wired Mag

In article <slrne38m8b.le9.julian@bongo.tele.com>, Julian Macassey
<julian@tele.com> wrote:

> On 5 Apr 2006 15:43:49 -0700, Karen <ksoa650@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Joseph Michael Bay wrote:
> >
> >> Also *technically* the proper use of "trolling" is that you
> >> troll a bait, and troll *for* fish.  So properly you would
> >> say "I'm trolling for n00bs" or "I'm trolling this obvious
> >> mispeling to get pedants" but not "you have been trolled",
> >> which is a good case for not insisting on proper usage.
> >
> > How did trawling turn into trolling and how was the troll (as in gnome)
> > named after trolling?
> 
>  Trolling is seperate from trawling. One uses a net and
> one a line.


Both are cognate, though, as in dragging, drawing, or even using a
tractor beam.  (Not coincidentally, tractors and traction have the same
root in Dutch and other Germanic languages (tragen), in Latin, and
ultimately to the Proto-Indo-European root "*dhragh- ."

(The familiar interchange of "d" and "t")

It shows up in Sanskrit as well.

--Tim May

Julian Macassey <julian@tele.com> writes:

>On 5 Apr 2006 15:43:49 -0700, Karen <ksoa650@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Joseph Michael Bay wrote:

>>> Also *technically* the proper use of "trolling" is that you
>>> troll a bait, and troll *for* fish.  So properly you would
>>> say "I'm trolling for n00bs" or "I'm trolling this obvious
>>> mispeling to get pedants" but not "you have been trolled",
>>> which is a good case for not insisting on proper usage.

>> How did trawling turn into trolling and how was the troll (as in gnome)
>> named after trolling?

>	Trolling is seperate from trawling. One uses a net and
>one a line.

Also, the troll of folklore is from Old Norse, while trolling
is of uncertain origin, but probably related to Old French
troller (to wander in search of game).


(Hey, I just read a usage article that contained this 
sentence: "The positive sense of this word had all but 
disappeared until it's recent revival."  Yikes)
-- 
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch,    Joe
.. or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to        Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances."          Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution           University

Karen wrote:

> Joseph Michael Bay wrote:
>
> > Also *technically* the proper use of "trolling" is that you
> > troll a bait, and troll *for* fish.  So properly you would
> > say "I'm trolling for n00bs" or "I'm trolling this obvious
> > mispeling to get pedants" but not "you have been trolled",
> > which is a good case for not insisting on proper usage.
>
> How did trawling turn into trolling and how was the troll (as in gnome)
> named after trolling?
>
> Karen

American Heritage Dictionary:
troll 1
verb: trolled, trolling, trolls.
transitive verb.
1.To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.
2.To trail (a baited line) in fishing.
3.To sing in succession the parts of (a round, for example).
4.To sing heartily: troll a carol.
5.To roll or revolve.
intransitive verb.
1.To fish by trailing a line, as from a moving boat.
2.To sing heartily or gaily.
3.To roll or spin around.
4.To wander about; ramble.
noun.
1.A vocal composition in successive parts; round.
2.The act of trolling for fish.
3.A lure that is used for trolling, as a spoon or spinner.
[Middle English trollen, to wander about.]
troller noun
troll 2
noun.
A supernatural creature of Scandinavian folklore variously portrayed as a
friendly or mischievous dwarf or as a giant, that lives in caves, in the hills,
or under bridges.
[Norwegian < Old Norse.]


I don't see anything about gnomes mentioned.....in fact....

American Heritage Dictionary:
gnome 1
noun.
1.One of a fabled race of dwarflike creatures who live underground and guard
treasure hoards.
2.A shriveled old man.
[French < New Latin gnomus.]
gnomish adjective
gnome 2
noun.
A pithy saying that expresses a general truth or fundamental principle;
aphorism.
[Greek gnome < gignoskein, to know.]
gno-
Indo-European Root.
To know. Contracted from *gno<{SW}>-.
1.Variant form *gne- in Germanic *kne(w)- in Old English cnawan, to know: KNOW.
2.Zero-grade form *gn<{SW}>- in:
a.Germanic *kunnan in Old English cunnan, to know, know how to, be able to (Old
English first and third singular can from Germanic *kann from o-grade
*gon<{SW}>-): CAN, CON, CUNNING;
b.Germanic causative verb *kannjan, to make known, in Old English cennan, to
declare, and Old Norse kenna, to name (in a formal poetic metaphor): KEN,
KENNING;
c.Germanic *kunthaz in Old English cuth, known, well-known, usual, excellent,
familiar: (COUTH); UNCOUTH;
d.Germanic *kunthitho in Old English cyth(the), cyththu, knowledge,
acquaintance, friendship, kinfolk: KITH.
3.Suffixed form *gno-sko- in Latin (g)noscere, cognoscere, to get to know, get
acquainted with: NOTICE, NOTIFY, NOTION, NOTORIOUS; (ACQUAINT), COGNITION,
(COGNIZANCE), (CONNOISSEUR), (QUAINT), RECOGNIZE.
4.Suffixed form *gno-ro- in Latin ignorare, not to know, to disregard (i- for
in-, not; see ne): IGNORANT, IGNORE.
5.Suffixed form *gno-dhli- in Latin nobilis, knowable, known, famous, noble:
NOBLE.
6.Reduplicated and suffixed form *gi-gno-sko- in Greek gignoskein, to know,
think, judge (and *gno- in gnomon, a judge, interpreter): GNOME, GNOMON, GNOSIS;
AGNOSIA, DIAGNOSIS, PATHOGNOMIC, PHYSIOGNOMY, PROGNOSIS.
7.Suffixed zero-grade form *gn<{SW}>-ro- in Latin gnarus, knowing, expert,
whence narrare (< *gnarrare), to tell, relate: NARRATE.
8.Traditionally but improbably referred here are:
a.Latin nota, a mark, note, sign, cipher, shorthand character: NOTE; ANNOTATE,
CONNOTE, PROTHONOTARY;
b.Latin norma, carpenter's square, rule, pattern, precept: NORM, NORMA, NORMAL;
ABNORMAL, ENORMOUS.
[Pokorny: 2. gen- 376.]

In article <e11foc$h3q$1@news.Stanford.EDU>,
 jmbay@Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) wrote:

> meg@steam.Stanford.EDU (Meg Worley) writes:
> 
> >and superpricy twee cocktails.  And charging $5 for chips and
> >salsa (or $9 for a flight of salsas[2]).
> 
> Flight of salsas, fiery crudite
> Catch the chip, rise out of sight
> Flight of salsas, cheddar and Monterey
> Pain tomorrow but great tonight

ObSenryuAlaChester:

  Flight of salsas?
  Watered-down drinks?
  F*ck this sh*it.

Steve

-- 
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Tim May  <timcmay@removethis.got.net> writes:

: A person who trolls isn't a "troll"; he's a *troller.*

> Back formations, even accidental intersections with established
> words, are what makes a language rich(er). Akin to punning.

My beef isn't with back formations per se, but with inaccuracy.  

Here's an analogy: someone who hacks is a hacker.  Any given example
of that thing that he does is a hack.  Similarly, someone who trolls
is a troller.  The provocative post intended to spark emotional res-
ponses, and not the guy who wrote it, is the troll.


> Trolling as a noun, derived from trawling, trolling, as in fishing,
> back-forms a connection to the Old Norse/folk legend image of a troll. 

This back formation is the result of a misunderstading arising from the
fact that more people are familiar with folk-legend trolls than with 
the type of fishing known as trolling.  After all, anyone who was a
child in a European culture knows about trolls.  Trolling, however, is
more specialized knowledge.  The fact that this confusion is easily
explained (and common) doesn't make it correct.



Geoff

-- 
"There is one evil which...should never be passed over in silence
 but be continually publicly attacked, and that is corruption of 
 the language..." -- W.H. Auden

Meg Worley <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> writes:

> a flight of salsas[2]).

> [2] Have you swallowed your tongue yet?


Only by superhuman effort have I managed to avoid it.

"A flight of salsas?"  What's with this pretentiousness of 
employing hoity-toity terminology in mundane contexts?  I'm
reminded of the time when the homebrew club I used to belong
to had a "vertical" tasting (a term traditionally associated
with fine wines) of Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Barleywine Ale (an
annual brew, for the sake of the uninitiated).


Extending my pinkies as I type,
Geoff

-- 
"There is one evil which...should never be passed over in silence
 but be continually publicly attacked, and that is corruption of 
 the language..." -- W.H. Auden

> Excuse me?  You've seen my picture; I doubt I'm much, if at all,
> older than you are.  Besides, I don't take issue with the way
> you used "troll," i.e., as a verb.  My objection regarding that
> word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
> "troll"; he's a *troller.*

Another esoteric use of troll as a noun is among cops and it predates the
internet. Many urban police departments use "trolling" as a verb meaning an
undercover [pun?] activity of obtaining solicitations from street whores,
also at times, street drug dealers. The undercover officer who does
"trolling" is referred to a "troll."

Ciccio

Geoff Miller wrote:

> 
> Here's an analogy: someone who hacks is a hacker.  Any given example
> of that thing that he does is a hack.  Similarly, someone who trolls
> is a troller.  The provocative post intended to spark emotional res-
> ponses, and not the guy who wrote it, is the troll.

Therefore god is an iron. Look up the reference.


   Trolling, however, is
> more specialized knowledge.  

Almost everyone in Europe has more knowledge of fishing than the average 
Joe in the USA. What makes you think that trolling is better known in 
the USA? On top of that, what makes you think that your knowledge of 
English and the underlying causes of the anomalies of a language with 
only three regular verbs, has anything to do with the evolution of the 
usage of a computer term?

JJ

On 2006-04-05, Geoff Miller <geoffm@u1.netgate.net> wrote:
>
>
> Meg Worley <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> writes:
>
>> [1] Pace, Geoffski.  Language has changed a bit since the
>> corset days when you learned English.

> My objection regarding that
> word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
> "troll"; he's a *troller.*

Ah, but it is a noun.  As in, Meg executed a splendid troll.

nb

In article <aQ9Zf.66201$bn3.51085@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Ciccio <francescod@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Excuse me?  You've seen my picture; I doubt I'm much, if at all,
> > older than you are.  Besides, I don't take issue with the way
> > you used "troll," i.e., as a verb.  My objection regarding that
> > word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
> > "troll"; he's a *troller.*
> 
> Another esoteric use of troll as a noun is among cops and it predates the
> internet. Many urban police departments use "trolling" as a verb meaning an
> undercover [pun?] activity of obtaining solicitations from street whores,
> also at times, street drug dealers. The undercover officer who does
> "trolling" is referred to a "troll."



And yet another (related) use of "troll" is for one of the beggars on
the street, the drifters, winos, layabouts, petty criminals,
Rastafarian bums, shopping cart pushers, and other lowlifes who infest
our cities.

Here in Santa Cruz, there have been various "troll-busting" campaigns.
In one famous case, in 1982, a troll was blown off a bridge
(appropriately)  over the river with a home-made bazooka. 

(The case was never solved, fortunately. Not much pressure to.)

--Tim May

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:45:26 GMT, Ciccio <francescod@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Excuse me?  You've seen my picture; I doubt I'm much, if at all,
>> older than you are.  Besides, I don't take issue with the way
>> you used "troll," i.e., as a verb.  My objection regarding that
>> word is people using it as a noun.  A person who trolls isn't a
>> "troll"; he's a *troller.*
>
> Another esoteric use of troll as a noun is among cops and it predates the
> internet. 

	When I was a youth in the 60s, trolling was a term used
about homosexual men out looking for sex, often by kerb crawling,
or lurking in toilets.



-- 
The coke habit in the US alone was worth $35 billion in 2000 - about $10
billion more than Microsoft brought in that year. - Joshua Davis, Wired Mag

Tim May wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet another (related) use of "troll" is for one of the beggars on
> the street, the drifters, winos, layabouts, petty criminals,
> Rastafarian bums, shopping cart pushers, and other lowlifes who infest
> our cities.
> 
> Here in Santa Cruz, there have been various "troll-busting" campaigns.
> In one famous case, in 1982, a troll was blown off a bridge
> (appropriately)  over the river with a home-made bazooka. 
> 
> (The case was never solved, fortunately. Not much pressure to.)
> 
> --Tim May

   Bet you masturbated over that event for a week saving you the cost of 
the Beach Flats hookers that you frequent.

Geoff Miller <geoffm@netgate.net> wrote:

>My beef isn't with back formations per se, but with inaccuracy.  

>Here's an analogy: someone who hacks is a hacker.  Any given example
>of that thing that he does is a hack.  Similarly, someone who trolls
>is a troller.  

Surely trolls lived under bridges for decades if not centuries
before modern usages of troll, troller, etc.

Steve

jeremy writes:
>However, if you feel that you are correct in your cultural context, 
>you are, but I disagree.

Hey, Geoffski, $5 says that he pleads "intentional mistake to see if 
anyone was educated enough to notice."


ObFood:  Basix, at the corner of Santa Monica and Flores, for
supper last night.  Despite the precious orthography, we liked
very much.  Service was fast and friendly, and when the waiter
forgot our appetizer, he was apologetic without being Heepish.

The Resident Lurker had the turkey meatloaf, which was Italianate,
down to an aromatic sauce ladled over the slices.  I had the
hanger steak, which was served with a chimichurri-like sauce
of garlic, herbs, and capers (there's a name for it, but I'm
blanking on it right now).  The steak was excellent (and, for
once in my life, as rare as I ordered it), and the sauce was
even better.

Both plates came with mashed potatoes and steamed broccoli.
The RL clucked that the potatoes had "been beat within an inch
of their lives," but at least they hadn't been food-processed
(breaking all the starch molecules and yielding a gluey puree).
The broccoli was done just right.  Everything was washed down
with a Sierra Nevada and a Rosemount Shiraz.

The one serious downside to Basix, aside from nomenclature,
is parking:  There are about three legal parking spaces within
trekking distance.  We were lucky enough to get one, but only
after spending a quarter of an hour driving around and swearing.
Our space only hove into view once we had agreed we were going
back to Northkoreatown for bibimbap and panchan.



Rage away,

meg

-- 

Meg Worley  _._  meg@steam.stanford.edu  _._  Comparatively Literate

On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:39:36 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley 
<meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>
> The one serious downside to Basix, aside from nomenclature,
> is parking:  


	West of La Brea, parkinmg sucks.

	Of course, San Francisco is worse. But Frisco hates cars
and has all the attraction of a third world city, without the
exotic weaponry.

-- 
"We tend to forget. Ours is a society where things are like instant, so 
therefore, history almost is like so far back it doesn't count."
-- GW Bush, 3/29/06

Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:39:36 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley 
> <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>> The one serious downside to Basix, aside from nomenclature,
>> is parking:  
> 
> 
> 	West of La Brea, parkinmg sucks.
> 
> 	Of course, San Francisco is worse. But Frisco hates cars
> and has all the attraction of a third world city, without the
> exotic weaponry.
> 
   I rarely have trouble finding free or cheap evening  parking here but 
you have to know where to look.

-- 
   To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell

Julian Macassey <julian@tele.com> wrote in 
news:slrne3gln5.hc5.julian@bongo.tele.com:

    	[snip]

>      West of La Brea, parkinmg sucks.
> 
>      Of course, San Francisco is worse. But Frisco hates cars
> and has all the attraction of a third world city, without the
> exotic weaponry.

    	The addition of which would be something of an improvement.

    	IBM

Julian Macassey wrote:

>	Of course, San Francisco is worse. But Frisco hates cars
>and has all the attraction of a third world city, without the
>exotic weaponry.

That depends on what you mean by "exotic." A friend of mine who lives
on Russian Hill recently let me try out his Tanfoglio 10mm, which is
fairly exotic by my 9mm standards.

Re: parking, tonight I parked _in front_ of Le Charm on 5th at Folsom.
This was for a spontaneous unreserved walk-in dinner a few minutes
after 6:00. Of course, if I had planned the meal and reserved a table,
I'd have had to park many blocks away.
--

In article <Xns979FC3436B765ibmsvpalorg@216.196.97.131>, Ian MacLure
<ibm@svpal.org> wrote:

> Julian Macassey <julian@tele.com> wrote in 
> news:slrne3gln5.hc5.julian@bongo.tele.com:
> 
>        [snip]
> 
> >      West of La Brea, parkinmg sucks.
> > 
> >      Of course, San Francisco is worse. But Frisco hates cars
> > and has all the attraction of a third world city, without the
> > exotic weaponry.
> 
>        The addition of which would be something of an improvement.
> 


Isn't this about the time that Friscans were required to turn in all of
their handguns, even with the "review extension"?

(Not applicable to illegal aliens, who would have their Constitutional
rights violated if they incriminated themselves by turning in handguns.
Not applicable to negroes, because gun registration or forfeiture is
not a black thang.)


--Tim May, a felon who has refused to register any of his guns

Meg Worley wrote:

>ObFood:  Basix, at the corner of Santa Monica and Flores, for
>supper last night.  Despite the precious orthography,

Dammit Meg, that's two words I had to check on. Basix is the brand
name of my immersion blender, or so I thought until I checked and
discovered it's "Bamix." And orthography, it turns out, has nothing to
do with birth control.

Do you ever go to the Japanese places around Sawtelle and Olympic?
More Americanized than you might like, but you can get some very good
noodles there, and if Hide (I think it was called) on Sawtelle is
still around, they had great sushi. My shrink's office was on Olympic
near there, and it was always a great comfort to eat a bowl of noodles
after therapy.

Oh, and if you're gardening these days, check out the Japanese
nurseries in that same neighborhood.
--

Meg Worley wrote:

> ObFood:  Basix, at the corner of Santa Monica and Flores, for
> supper last night.

Kibbles and Bits would have been better.  Why the hell did you settle on
Basix?

Ugh.  Ack.  Ptui.

You do realize, dolls, doncha, that I've lived within a 20-minute walk
of SM and Flores for over 25 years and I've actually eaten at Basix.
More than once.

Ugh.  Ack.  Ptui.


> The one serious downside to Basix, aside from nomenclature,
> is parking:

Oh, please.  There is 24-hour public transportation available that will
drop you off within 10 feet of Basix's front door.  But I guess the
Hummer with Meg's name and likeness stenciled on the doors was too much
to keep her silenced-- she wanted to show them WeHo homos just what a
radbitch she can be.

Still, Basix?  Shiver.

Arne
adolfsen@earthlink.net

"Julian Macassey" <julian@tele.com> wrote in message 
news:slrne3gln5.hc5.julian@bongo.tele.com...
> On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:39:36 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley
> <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>
Isn't there a City of WeHo parking structure about a block west of Basix on 
Santa Monca Blvd.?  If I'm not mistaken there is plenty of relatively cheep 
parking within easy walking distance.

>> The one serious downside to Basix, aside from nomenclature,
>> is parking:
>
>
> West of La Brea, parkinmg sucks.
>
> Of course, San Francisco is worse. But Frisco hates cars
> and has all the attraction of a third world city, without the
> exotic weaponry.
>
> -- 
> "We tend to forget. Ours is a society where things are like instant, so
> therefore, history almost is like so far back it doesn't count."
> -- GW Bush, 3/29/06
> 

Julian writes:
>	West of La Brea, parking sucks.
>
>	Of course, San Francisco is worse. 

Well, Schroedinger's cat and all that, but I beg to differ.  Our
worst parking experiences in LA make a North Beach parking hunt
look like a driving lesson in a school parking lot on a sunday
morning in 1976.

ObFood: Camilo's in Eagle Rock.  A decent breakfast, but
not worth a trip if you don't live in the nabe.  (And if 
you do, there's the Coffee Table.)  Aside from the anemic
coffee, the low point was the spinach in the omelet and
eggs florentine, which was 1) raw and julienned (odd but
not offensive), and 2) treated with rosewater (odd *and*
offensive).  

If I were in the vicinity, I'd certainly give them a try
for lunch or supper.  Plus: abundant parking!



Rage away,

meg

-- 

Meg Worley  _._  meg@steam.stanford.edu  _._  Comparatively Literate

DaveLA writes:
>Isn't there a City of WeHo parking structure about a block west of Basix on 
>Santa Monca Blvd.?  If I'm not mistaken there is plenty of relatively cheep 
>parking within easy walking distance.

We certainly didn't see it, but we'll look for it next time.  We
checked out the City Hall lot (along with several hundred of our
closest friends) to no avail.

I understand completely the neighborhood's desire to control street
parking, but nothing darkens your temper like block upon block of
those signs reading NO PARKING BETWEEN 6PM AND 6AM.  And the one
time that we pretended we hadn't seen the sign (in Sawtelle), the
coppers nailed us within 45 minutes.


Rage away,

meg


-- 

Meg Worley  _._  meg@steam.stanford.edu  _._  Comparatively Literate

Gene writes:
>Do you ever go to the Japanese places around Sawtelle and Olympic?
>More Americanized than you might like, but you can get some very good
>noodles there, and if Hide (I think it was called) on Sawtelle is
>still around, they had great sushi. 

Heh -- we were just there the other day.  Everywhere was packed,
however, with people crowding out the door, and it was starting to
pour, so we ended up at the Giant Robot eatery (can't call it a
restaurant, really), gr/eats.  The ohitashi (spinach with sesame
seeds was good, and the okra-and-prosciutto maki was tastier than
it sounds, but the soups and paella were poor stuff.

We need to head back there, possibly with r-r-reservations, but
it's quite a trek.

>My shrink's office was on Olympic
>near there, and it was always a great comfort to eat a bowl of noodles
>after therapy.

What an advanced individual you are -- the RL and I are still
stagnating at the stage where a bowl of noodles *is* therapy.



Rage away,

meg


-- 

Meg Worley  _._  meg@steam.stanford.edu  _._  Comparatively Literate

Meg Worley wrote:
>What an advanced individual you are -- the RL and I are still
>stagnating at the stage where a bowl of noodles *is* therapy.

Your method has two advantages: if your issues aren't resolved in 50
minutes, you can just order another bowl. And it's easy to change
treatment modalities -- if ramen is ineffective, you can switch to
udon. On the other hand, transference would present certain
challenges.
--

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:58:52 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> ObFood: Camilo's in Eagle Rock.  A decent breakfast, but
> not worth a trip if you don't live in the nabe.  (And if 
> you do, there's the Coffee Table.)

	I have always liked it. My one exception was when some
unfunny Hollywood comedian was in the booth nect to me. With all
the fawning over the self important wanker who works in Hollywood
because his parents used to be funny, I could have starved to
death.

	But having been fawned over in restaurants I must admit
it is nice to be the fawnee.

>  Aside from the anemic coffee, 

	I recall their coffee was strong and tasty. Did a
disgruntled customer pee in it?

> the low point was the spinach in the omelet and
> eggs florentine, which was 1) raw and julienned (odd but
> not offensive), and 2) treated with rosewater (odd *and*
> offensive).  

	The breakfast burrito and chilaquiles have always been
good there. 

>
> If I were in the vicinity, I'd certainly give them a try
> for lunch or supper.  Plus: abundant parking!

	I have driven in from the far reaces of the San Fernando
valley to breakfast there.

	Parking in the rear as well as the street. 
-- 
"We tend to forget. Ours is a society where things are like instant, so 
therefore, history almost is like so far back it doesn't count."
-- GW Bush, 3/29/06

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:02:46 +0000 (UTC), Meg Worley 
<meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>
> I understand completely the neighborhood's desire to control street
> parking, but nothing darkens your temper like block upon block of
> those signs reading NO PARKING BETWEEN 6PM AND 6AM.  And the one
> time that we pretended we hadn't seen the sign (in Sawtelle), the
> coppers nailed us within 45 minutes.

	West Hollywood used to make over $10,000,000.00 a year in
parking fines. They love restricted and non existent parking, it
is good for revenue.

-- 
"We tend to forget. Ours is a society where things are like instant, so 
therefore, history almost is like so far back it doesn't count."
-- GW Bush, 3/29/06

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:08:53 +0000 (UTC), meg@steam.Stanford.EDU (Meg
Worley) wrote:
>>Do you ever go to the Japanese places around Sawtelle and Olympic?
>>More Americanized than you might like, but you can get some very good
>>noodles there, and if Hide (I think it was called) on Sawtelle is
>>still around, they had great sushi. 
>
>Heh -- we were just there the other day.  Everywhere was packed,
>however, with people crowding out the door, and it was starting to
>pour, so we ended up at the Giant Robot eatery (can't call it a
>restaurant, really), gr/eats.  The ohitashi (spinach with sesame
>seeds was good, and the okra-and-prosciutto maki was tastier than
>it sounds, but the soups and paella were poor stuff.
>
>We need to head back there, possibly with r-r-reservations, but
>it's quite a trek.

Unless something has changed recently, Hide takes no reservations, nor
credit cards.

But I could live on their yellowtail and scallion roll, however
pedestrian that's supposed to be.

J.

Meg,

This structure is on the same side of the street as Basix and one block to 
the west.  You will see and Aaron Brothers Art Mart on the first floor of 
the structure, the entrance is on the North / South block.

Enjoy.


"Meg Worley" <meg@steam.Stanford.EDU> wrote in message 
news:e1bi86$igk$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> DaveLA writes:
>>Isn't there a City of WeHo parking structure about a block west of Basix 
>>on
>>Santa Monca Blvd.?  If I'm not mistaken there is plenty of relatively 
>>cheep
>>parking within easy walking distance.
>
> We certainly didn't see it, but we'll look for it next time.  We
> checked out the City Hall lot (along with several hundred of our
> closest friends) to no avail.
>
> I understand completely the neighborhood's desire to control street
> parking, but nothing darkens your temper like block upon block of
> those signs reading NO PARKING BETWEEN 6PM AND 6AM.  And the one
> time that we pretended we hadn't seen the sign (in Sawtelle), the
> coppers nailed us within 45 minutes.
>
>
> Rage away,
>
> meg
>
>
> -- 
>
> Meg Worley  _._  meg@steam.stanford.edu  _._  Comparatively Literate 

Arne Adolfsen  <adolfsen@earthlink.net> writes:

> You do realize, dolls, doncha, that I've lived within a 20-minute walk
> of SM and Flores for over 25 years and I've actually eaten at Basix.
> More than once.


Well, isn't that special.

Stop crossposting to ba.food, you fucking hypocrite.



Geoff "Or I'll hit you with my purse" Miller

-- 
"Liberace was a great piano player, but he sucked on the organ." 
					-- Mike Oxbig

"Ciccio" <francescod@comcast.net> writes:

>"Arne Adolfsen" <adolfsen@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>> Take it up with La Bella who fucking crossposted this to ba-fucking-food
>> AND la-fucking-eats in the first fucking place.

>But you didn't delete a newsgroup to avoid the cross-posting. Sounds like
>you have a problem taking on personal responsibility.  Aren't you a tad too
>old for the"She made me do it" defense?

KEEP IT OUT OF SCI.HCEM FOOLS!

-- 
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch,    Joe
.. or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to        Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances."          Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution           University

Ciccio wrote:

> "Arne Adolfsen" <adolfsen@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> > Take it up with La Bella who fucking crossposted this to ba-fucking-food
> > AND la-fucking-eats in the first fucking place.
>
> But you didn't delete a newsgroup to avoid the cross-posting. Sounds like
> you have a problem taking on personal responsibility.  Aren't you a tad too
> old for the"She made me do it" defense?
>
> Ciccio

Give it a rest, please.  Twirls is a "respected" member of both the la.eats
and ba.food  "communities".  Besides, WHICH group would I have deleted?  Her
academic appointment (just see her email address) is in Southern California,
she's been posting stuff about the Bay Area and has discussed stuff about
spending extended time in the Bay Area for months, and now she's posting about
LA again though this time as though she's just visiting.  Obviously, if she'd
been crossposting to alt.binaries.erotica.pogo.sticks, I'd have deleted that
address line.

Love you anyway, Ceci.

Arne
adolfsen@earthlink.net