🚀 go-pugleaf

> And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
language
> and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !

    The problem goes further than that.  Other than the fact that French is
the Official Second Language, what good is it the average Canadian?  I'm not
trying to be a prick, I'm serious.  I can't think of a single point in my
life where being fluent in French would have been beneficial.  We don't do
business in French, we don't socialize in French, we don't do anything in
French.  It's simply not a part of our lifestyle.  (Specifically in the
West)

    And what really annoys me is that the Federal Government feels that it's
so extremely important to know a second language, but there is virtually no
support for anything other than French.  I've spent thousands over the past
couple of years on private Spanish classes, but there is no support
whatsoever from the Federal Government.  If the classes are through a
certified college or university you can claim Tuition, however school
doesn't fit my lifestyle as I am in mid-career.  Instead, I found a
certified teacher (A university professor) and do regular night classes.  I
understand fully that French is our country's second language, but it just
doesn't make that much sense to me to be pumpin 750 Million into French, and
*nothing* into languages like Spanish or Chinese.  At the risk of
infuriating any native French speakers reading this, I see speaking French
as more of a novelty than a useful skill.  I've never been in a situation
where knowing French would have been helpful, with the exception of French
Class in High School!!  But I use my Spanish on a pretty regular
basis....especially when dealing with clients in the United States.  Maybe
my rant is pointless.....but I just wish there was a little more support for
"Languages" as a whole, and not just "French".

> And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
language,
> french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> those french books.

    If you're good with French, try out Spanish.  It should be "Easy" for
you.  I know that I can understand a lot more written/spoken French now than
before I started taking Spanish classes.  And then move onto the "Romance
Languages" retarded stepchild.....German.  I've never heard such a brutal
sounding language, although there are a few very interesting characterictics
to it.

You are funny! You do business with Americans in.....spanish!!! lolol....

I do business with French in...arabic!

As we say in french: une poignée dans le dos?

News a écrit :

> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
>
>     The problem goes further than that.  Other than the fact that French is
> the Official Second Language, what good is it the average Canadian?  I'm not
> trying to be a prick, I'm serious.  I can't think of a single point in my
> life where being fluent in French would have been beneficial.  We don't do
> business in French, we don't socialize in French, we don't do anything in
> French.  It's simply not a part of our lifestyle.  (Specifically in the
> West)
>
>     And what really annoys me is that the Federal Government feels that it's
> so extremely important to know a second language, but there is virtually no
> support for anything other than French.  I've spent thousands over the past
> couple of years on private Spanish classes, but there is no support
> whatsoever from the Federal Government.  If the classes are through a
> certified college or university you can claim Tuition, however school
> doesn't fit my lifestyle as I am in mid-career.  Instead, I found a
> certified teacher (A university professor) and do regular night classes.  I
> understand fully that French is our country's second language, but it just
> doesn't make that much sense to me to be pumpin 750 Million into French, and
> *nothing* into languages like Spanish or Chinese.  At the risk of
> infuriating any native French speakers reading this, I see speaking French
> as more of a novelty than a useful skill.  I've never been in a situation
> where knowing French would have been helpful, with the exception of French
> Class in High School!!  But I use my Spanish on a pretty regular
> basis....especially when dealing with clients in the United States.  Maybe
> my rant is pointless.....but I just wish there was a little more support for
> "Languages" as a whole, and not just "French".
>
> > And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
> language,
> > french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> > those french books.
>
>     If you're good with French, try out Spanish.  It should be "Easy" for
> you.  I know that I can understand a lot more written/spoken French now than
> before I started taking Spanish classes.  And then move onto the "Romance
> Languages" retarded stepchild.....German.  I've never heard such a brutal
> sounding language, although there are a few very interesting characterictics
> to it.

"News" <news456789@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jIika.669287$Yo4.52421433@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
>
>     The problem goes further than that.  Other than the fact that French
is
> the Official Second Language, what good is it the average Canadian?

Indeed, French is quite useless.
Just like art, philosophy, history, music...

"Basilic" <basilic@basilic.pot> wrote in message
news:3e92f7bc_2@aeinews....
>
>
> > Actually, we are not all Canadians. There are Canadians and there
are
> French
> > Canadians. The French Canadians are a warm hearted wonderful group.
But
> they are
> > a group, and what my seventy odd years of working beside and with
them has
> shown
> > me, is that their history has taught them to look after their
brothers,
> sisters,
> > cousins, community, region and province to the exclusion of all
else. In a
> word
> > they exhibit a siege mentality. They are for anything French
Canadian and
> > against anything not French Canadian. It's a wonderful trait but it
is the
> basis
> > of systemic racism.
>
> Walt,
>
> Systemic racism is everywhere. Within all kinds of communities (you
call
> them groups) there is favouritism. Look at other
> communities/cultures/groups, for example Jews stick with Jews, whether
they
> speak French English Russian Chinese, they will hire thier own kind.
Same
> could be said during the European influx to Canada after WW2, the
Italians,
> Germans, Irish, etc. stuck together and hired each other just on the
basis
> of where they came from and what language they spoke. Today it is
other
> cultures like, Chinese, Arab, Mexican which are the highest immigrants
and
> if any of them get into a position of hiring power, well chances are
that
> they will choose thier own. It's cultures who stick together, like
families,
> who else is going to look out for you in this day and age?
>
> It also happens outside of any, as you call it systemic rasism. If a
friend
> of mine is in a hiring position, don't you think that I will have a
better
> chance of getting hired over you?
>
> Speaking multiple languages is an asset in todays world, although
French is
> not going to be the worlds second language, it's a good base for other
> languages such as Latin, Italian, Portugese and especially Spanish. So
why
> don't we make Canada truly bilingual and then the whole country will
be 1
> big happy group and then we could get on with more important business
such
> as getting the economy out of the crapper. Plus, we could create our
own
> little language called Franglais.
>
> Basilic

I think it's important to understand that this is a major
cultural-political difference between Canadians and Americans.  The U.S.
has the concept / principle of a "melting pot", where there's an
assumption that eventually, you will have a hybridized / mongrelized
(this is NOT an insult) where ultimately there is a homogenous society.
On the other hand, from it's earliest days, Canada has avoided this
principle.  We have cultural enclaves all over the country, and expect
the cultures to provide a synergistic boost to our nation (originally
called bi-culturalism, and in recent decades multi-culturalism).  As
Canadians we are not for homogenization of cultures.

Thanks for letting me know.  Glad I don't know everything :)
I also didn't include the Yukon & territories etc (so, I'll apologize in
advance)

Dan


"Basilic" <basilic@basilic.pot> wrote in message
news:3e92f073$1_1@aeinews....
>
> > 4) There are significant French speaking communities from Newfoundland
to
> > Manitoba(which was also officially bilingual until not very long ago)
>
> Correction, Newfoundland to BC, there is a French language University in
BC.
>
>

"Bidou" <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote in message news:3E9221A7.8F41C83A@yahoo.fr...
You are funny! You do business with Americans in.....spanish!!! lolol....

    Beleive what you want.  It's Usenet.....I'm not overly bothered by what
anyone has to say.  It's easy to be tough behind a keyboard.  But Spanish
has turned out to be a very useful tool for me.  I recommend learning a
second language to many people, I think it's a very great skill to have and
can have great effects on your ability to comprehend concepts and ideas.  As
a (assuming) native French Speaker, don't you think that learning English
has had beneficial effect on your overall life?  More than simply being able
to communicate with others?  Oh and by the way, I may not attend meetings
that are held in Spanish, but being able to carry on a general prolonged
conversation in someone else's mother tounge has always been greatly
appreciated.  And with offices in the Southern US and South America I tend
to use my new found skill on a pretty regular basis.

I do business with French in...arabic!

    Boy, that sounds really arrogant.  An arrogant Frenchman?
Nah.....that's just a stereotype.

As we say in french: une poign�e dans le dos?

    As we say in English:  Really?  That's Nice.

"Max Power" <max@power.cc> wrote in message
news:impka.3762$N94.347071@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "News" <news456789@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jIika.669287$Yo4.52421433@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> > > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares
if
> > > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> > language
> > > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
> >
> >     The problem goes further than that.  Other than the fact that French
> is
> > the Official Second Language, what good is it the average Canadian?
>
> Indeed, French is quite useless.
> Just like art, philosophy, history, music...

    Wow, you're really good with English.  So good you even add words to
other people's statements.

    What I think the Feds should do now is make Art, Philosophy, History and
Music mandatory for all Canadians.  In fact, you shouldn't be able to work
unless you have mastered all the concepts of each of those things.  <Tounge
in Cheek>  Afterall, having a knowledge of fine wines or history may one day
help you, just like being fluent in French might.

    You didn't even come close to answering the question.  Heck, you didn't
even try.  Wanna give it another shot?  What good is knowing French to the
average Canadian?  Give me a realistic scenario that a large number of
Canadians could have in which speaking French will be of major importance?
What the Feds should be doing is making French accessible to anyone who
wishes to learn it.  That I support.  I love the idea of studying and
learning additional languages.  But to have it forced on someone is a
complete waste.  When I was in Junior/Senior High it was madatory to take
French Classes from grades 6-9 or 10.  (Can't quite recall)  I'd suggest
that only a handful of the 30+ students in the class actually wanted to be
there, and the effort/grades/long lasting results show it.  Had they offered
German or Spanish or Italian there would have been more students interested
in learning.  Quite frankly the whole experience put me off the idea of
learning a language for a long time.

> > before I started taking Spanish classes.  And then move onto the
"Romance
> > Languages" retarded stepchild.....German.  I've never heard such a
brutal
> > sounding language, although there are a few very interesting
> characterictics
> > to it.
> >
> Look, you just commented on your top rant with the bottom and answered
your
> own question.
>
> If you would have learned French in your youth, you would have saved
> thousands of dollars today learning Spanish, it would have taken a
fraction
> of time to learn.

    Or the Government could have made it possible for me to learn Spanish or
German or Italian instead.  Languages that I am actually interested in.  I
have never had any real desire to learn French.  What's the cost of putting
30 kids into a French class......with only 10 of them actually wanting to be
there?  It's a huge waste of money in my opinion.  Many people don't even
want to learn a second language.  (Or third, or fourth....)  I would guess
that with the money being put into French Classes across Canada, schools
could teach a fairly wide variety of languages to students who actually want
to learn them.  Opt in, Opt out.

> But alas, in your minds French is useless.

    Nope, not really.  All languages can be useful.  But forcing them onto
people who really don't want to learn IS a waste.

> I know what you mean, growing up I hated the French classes and found them
> to be useless, which they were. But now, I could speak, read and write it
> and the funny thing is that I learnt it on the street, not bored out of my
> skull in school.
> I've always been different when it came down to learning other languages,
> I'd learn to speak before reading and writing - that always came later on.
> Perhaps that is the problem in learning another language, to learn reading
> and writing before speaking.

    That's funny because Spanish was the opposite for me.  Reading and
Writing is a breeze for me, but I always get a little tense when I have to
speak.  Or at least for the first minute or so of a conversation.  Then when
I realize that I do actually know what I'm doing, things go smoothly!

Andrewbestfrenn@hotmail.com (Andrew Bestfrenn) wrote in message news:<c499781f.0304050425.47fd67db@posting.google.com>...
> Global National News with Kevin Newman audio link
> 
> Hear audio of Global Television News story confirming
> that 71% of all new hirings in the massive federal 
> public service are going to Francophones, and that 68% of
> all job promotions are going to Francophones. Due to official 
> bilingualism, while Quebec is allowed to remain officially unilingual
> French.  Francophones make up only a tiny fraction of the population
> outside Quebec, yet we are allowing them to take over our federal 
> government.

So what?   The better paying jobs are in the private sector.

Do YOU really want to work for the federal government?

"Hassen bin Lai" <impro6t9@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3815ce29.0304101645.2e62ed47@posting.google.com...
> Andrewbestfrenn@hotmail.com (Andrew Bestfrenn) wrote in message
news:<c499781f.0304050425.47fd67db@posting.google.com>...
> > Global National News with Kevin Newman audio link
> >
> > Hear audio of Global Television News story confirming
> > that 71% of all new hirings in the massive federal
> > public service are going to Francophones, and that 68% of
> > all job promotions are going to Francophones. Due to official
> > bilingualism, while Quebec is allowed to remain officially unilingual
> > French.  Francophones make up only a tiny fraction of the population
> > outside Quebec, yet we are allowing them to take over our federal
> > government.
>
> So what?   The better paying jobs are in the private sector.
>
> Do YOU really want to work for the federal government?

    I don't know.  Sure you can make a lot of money in the private sector,
but a lot of government jobs pay well, have excellent benefits, good
pensions and in some cases significant tax benefits.  A CEO type is
obviously better off in the private sector but a "Joe Schmoe" is probably
pretty well off in Government Service.

> I know what you mean, growing up I hated the French classes and found them
> to be useless, which they were. But now, I could speak, read and write it
> and the funny thing is that I learnt it on the street, not bored out of my
> skull in school.
> I've always been different when it came down to learning other languages,
> I'd learn to speak before reading and writing - that always came later on.
> Perhaps that is the problem in learning another language, to learn reading
> and writing before speaking.


    For what it's worth, the company I work for just expanded again.....this
time into Quebec.  All of a sudden French is useful to me!

Maybe knowledge of at least 2 languages should be required for
employment.

Examples:  French, Chinese;  English, German;  English, Arabic; 
French, Japanese;  etc.  Any two except English and American. 
Considering that unless you are 4th or more generation Canadian, you
probably know at least 2 languages anyway.

Don't know why so many here are anti learning French.  Do you want to
be just as stupid as an ordinary American?  Even the best liberal arts
colleges in the US still require studying a second language.

"News" <news456789@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<rWGka.80760$vs.6390323@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>...


> 
>     Or the Government could have made it possible for me to learn Spanish or
> German or Italian instead.  Languages that I am actually interested in.  I
> have never had any real desire to learn French.  What's the cost of putting
> 30 kids into a French class......with only 10 of them actually wanting to be
> there?  It's a huge waste of money in my opinion.  Many people don't even
> want to learn a second language.  (Or third, or fourth....)  I would guess
> that with the money being put into French Classes across Canada, schools
> could teach a fairly wide variety of languages to students who actually want
> to learn them.  Opt in, Opt out.
> 
> > But alas, in your minds French is useless.
> 
>     Nope, not really.  All languages can be useful.  But forcing them onto
> people who really don't want to learn IS a waste.

Are you saying that other languages are not offered in public schools?
 I was under the impression children in Vancouver have the opportunity
to learn Chinese.

Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.

Hassen bin Lai wrote:

> Are you saying that other languages are not offered in public schools?
>  I was under the impression children in Vancouver have the opportunity
> to learn Chinese.
> 
> Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
> learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
> your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
> their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
> teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.

Teaching languages and music early results in easier learning of other 
subjects.



-- 
Marko Jotic
"Common sense is anything but common".
 From the notebooks of Lazarus Long. Robert A. Heinlein.
Handmade knives, antique designs, exotic materials at 
http://www.knifeforging.com/

Marko wrote:

> Hassen bin Lai wrote:
>
> > Are you saying that other languages are not offered in public schools?
> >  I was under the impression children in Vancouver have the opportunity
> > to learn Chinese.
> >
> > Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
> > learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
> > your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
> > their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
> > teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.
>
> Teaching languages and music early results in easier learning of other
> subjects.

We are talking about providing jobs to both linguistic groups on an
equitable basis so that both groups have a proportionally fair number of
jobs so that they can both feed and educate their kids well enough to get
decent jobs. Government should also be proportionally staffed by each
linguistic group in order to ensure that all the contracts are not given to
Quebec / French firms.

impro6t9@hotmail.com (Hassen bin Lai) wrote:
HL> Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
HL> learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
HL> your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
HL> their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
HL> teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.

Except the French is primarily on the curriculum to fulfill a political
consideration, not a practical one!

&, yes, algebra, it can be argued, is needed to drive a car. . .

My car gets x km/100l fuel efficiency, I'm planning a trip of x,xxx km, and my
gas credit card has an available balance of $xxx.00 -- how many litres must I
purchase of the lowest grade, rather than Supreme, if I want to make it home
okay?

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

        (Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity.  -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

I understand all that
just adding a point:
its a good thing

Walt Strauss wrote:
> 
> Marko wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hassen bin Lai wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Are you saying that other languages are not offered in public schools?
>>> I was under the impression children in Vancouver have the opportunity
>>>to learn Chinese.
>>>
>>>Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
>>>learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
>>>your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
>>>their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
>>>teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.
>>
>>Teaching languages and music early results in easier learning of other
>>subjects.
> 
> 
> We are talking about providing jobs to both linguistic groups on an
> equitable basis so that both groups have a proportionally fair number of
> jobs so that they can both feed and educate their kids well enough to get
> decent jobs. Government should also be proportionally staffed by each
> linguistic group in order to ensure that all the contracts are not given to
> Quebec / French firms.
> 


-- 
Marko Jotic
"Common sense is anything but common".
 From the notebooks of Lazarus Long. Robert A. Heinlein.
Handmade knives, antique designs, exotic materials at 
http://www.knifeforging.com/

> >     Nope, not really.  All languages can be useful.  But forcing them
onto
> > people who really don't want to learn IS a waste.
>
> Are you saying that other languages are not offered in public schools?
>  I was under the impression children in Vancouver have the opportunity
> to learn Chinese.

    In the small town I grew up in (Near Calgary) it was French or German.
And German was *only* taught through correspondence, and only if a class
size of about 10 was made.  In a total population of 30 or so in the grade,
getting 10 to want to learn *any* language was tough, let alone compete for
French or German.

> Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
> learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
> your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
> their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
> teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.

    I agree completely.  But forcing them to learn a language isn't always
the most effective way to do it.  Without trying to get people pissed at me,
how many "Shop Class" kids wanted to learn French?  Some people just simply
do not want to, or don't have the capacity to.  One guy I went to high
school with could hardly speak English properly.  (Seriously)  What were his
chances of learning French?  And yet other courses he excelled in......like
Shop Class.  The arguement used in these NG quite often is that you can't
paint too broad of a stroke.  And yet the Feds seem to have done just that,
assumed that all kids are the same, and that everyone can/wants/will learn
French.

I just don't see the point in screwing up the lives of the majority of our
citizens in order to make work and give power to the 25% minority. Most of whom
live in a racist province that has seen fit to invoke the not withstanding
clause in order push as many non francos out of their province as possible.

News wrote:

> > >     Nope, not really.  All languages can be useful.  But forcing them
> onto
> > > people who really don't want to learn IS a waste.
> >
> > Are you saying that other languages are not offered in public schools?
> >  I was under the impression children in Vancouver have the opportunity
> > to learn Chinese.
>
>     In the small town I grew up in (Near Calgary) it was French or German.
> And German was *only* taught through correspondence, and only if a class
> size of about 10 was made.  In a total population of 30 or so in the grade,
> getting 10 to want to learn *any* language was tough, let alone compete for
> French or German.
>
> > Forcing kids to learn French is no different than forcing them to
> > learn algebra.  You certainly don't need algerbra to drive a car, do
> > your taxes, use plastic, etc.  Who do you know that actually used
> > their math or science or much of any other subjects?  The point is to
> > teach the kids to use and exercise their brains.
>
>     I agree completely.  But forcing them to learn a language isn't always
> the most effective way to do it.  Without trying to get people pissed at me,
> how many "Shop Class" kids wanted to learn French?  Some people just simply
> do not want to, or don't have the capacity to.  One guy I went to high
> school with could hardly speak English properly.  (Seriously)  What were his
> chances of learning French?  And yet other courses he excelled in......like
> Shop Class.  The arguement used in these NG quite often is that you can't
> paint too broad of a stroke.  And yet the Feds seem to have done just that,
> assumed that all kids are the same, and that everyone can/wants/will learn
> French.

"Walt Strauss" <ws.hra@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3E9DA434.BDC6BE77@sympatico.ca...
> I just don't see the point in screwing up the lives of the majority of our
> citizens in order to make work and give power to the 25% minority. Most of
whom
> live in a racist province that has seen fit to invoke the not withstanding
> clause in order push as many non francos out of their province as
possible.

    I think we're on the same side here, for the most part.  I support the
idea of making resources available for students to learn second languages,
but I don't think that language should be so explicitly limited towards
French.  If German, Spanish or even Chinese were offered in school rather
than French (Or as well as French) we would see a significantly higher
percentage of the population being multilingual.  But not necessarily in the
French language.

News wrote:

> "Walt Strauss" <ws.hra@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3E9DA434.BDC6BE77@sympatico.ca...
> > I just don't see the point in screwing up the lives of the majority of our
> > citizens in order to make work and give power to the 25% minority. Most of
> whom
> > live in a racist province that has seen fit to invoke the not withstanding
> > clause in order push as many non francos out of their province as
> possible.
>
>     I think we're on the same side here, for the most part.  I support the
> idea of making resources available for students to learn second languages,
> but I don't think that language should be so explicitly limited towards
> French.  If German, Spanish or even Chinese were offered in school rather
> than French (Or as well as French) we would see a significantly higher
> percentage of the population being multilingual.  But not necessarily in the
> French language.

If only this were *just* about learning to speak a second language.

"Walt Strauss" <ws.hra@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3E9DD9CB.9F49C02E@sympatico.ca...
>
>
> News wrote:
>
> > "Walt Strauss" <ws.hra@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3E9DA434.BDC6BE77@sympatico.ca...
> > > I just don't see the point in screwing up the lives of the majority of
our
> > > citizens in order to make work and give power to the 25% minority.
Most of
> > whom
> > > live in a racist province that has seen fit to invoke the not
withstanding
> > > clause in order push as many non francos out of their province as
> > possible.
> >
> >     I think we're on the same side here, for the most part.  I support
the
> > idea of making resources available for students to learn second
languages,
> > but I don't think that language should be so explicitly limited towards
> > French.  If German, Spanish or even Chinese were offered in school
rather
> > than French (Or as well as French) we would see a significantly higher
> > percentage of the population being multilingual.  But not necessarily in
the
> > French language.
>
> If only this were *just* about learning to speak a second language.

    Ah yes.  Thank You, I almost forgot that langauge and learning really
has very little to do with the situation.  Thanks for the reminder.

"Basilic" <basilic@basilic.pot> wrote in message news:3e9ec203_4@aeinews....
> Guys, doesn't it make this country a bit more interesting than, say, the
> USA. Do we want to loose any kind of special identity? People around the
> world find it amazing the we have a bilingual country and repect and
admire
> this about us.
> If we were to let go of this second language, won't we become like the
> Americans in a few generations? I don't hate the Americans but the public
> schooling there is of poor quality, many people cannot even name the 50
> states or find Canada on a map.

    It is a good point, although (I'll admit) I don't really care about the
distinction.  It's kind of cool to be living in a country known for speaking
two official languages, but I think I'd rather have the world think of us
differently in exchange for a few more schools, hospitals etc.  $750,000,000
is a lot of coin, just for impressing your friends.

The English should vote with one voice (like the French) for an English
Prime Minister - the French liberals are controlling the English through
Bilingualism and allowing the French a disproportionate number of votes,
senators and unearned power!  Paul Martin like Mulroney is French and will
cater to Quebec!


As a former Qu�becois who is trilingual, I find your insensitive and naieve
point of view very disturbing.  Deep Blue had you grown up in Quebec where
English immersion is illegal, you would be unilingual French.  Are you
presuming that because you have had French parents and lived in Ontario that
you are superior to unilingual Quebecois, the English, the Chinese, Arabs,
Hatiians , Spanish, Ukranian and other unilingual Canadians. As an educator
who has taught French, the reality is that the vast majority of supposed
Bilingual assimilated Franco-Ontarions cannot speak or Write French
properly.  The poor quality of Joyal French  is quite honestly atrocious
compared to true Quebecois or French from France. Franco-Ontarions Work in
English speaking 4 words of French and 3 words of English (worse then
Acadian French).  Many don't even speak French in their homes so what kind
of nonsense is this 57 billion  (Canadian Tax payer statistics since
conception) french bilingual mythology (6 billion a year or more)
Franco-Ontarion french is similar to the English spoken by some Southern
Americans. The French language is meant to show that the mastery of French
can often only be achieved by the most skilled and well educated
aristocrats. French is a melodious language designed to confuse. The French
who know their language well, who are flawless find English to be more
expedient, clear and faster to use. Very few French truly master their own
language. French is an impractical language for modern times. French is an
intolerant language and a beautiful luxury for those who have time to show
it off.  Many Franco Ontarions can barely draft a French letter and most
times send it to translators (at great cost to mostly English Canadians
footing the bill for this atrocious illiteracy)! Jean Chretien himself can
speak neither French nor English properly.  When traveling through France,
the French have difficulty understanding Quebecers and an even worse time
with Ontario Francophones! I challenge Deep blue to learn a language the
hard way (not through his parents and local community but in a school) like
most of us who understand what it actually takes to learn languages.  Deep
Blue take a German course, then never get to practice German (as most
English NEVER EVER get to practice French) and then see if you actually
learn German!  Or take flying lessons but never fly a plane, would you be a
pilot?   Shame on you for perpetuating a myth that the English are somehow
NOT trying to learn French.  The 400,000 English etc. forced out of Quebec
(National Geographic Nov 97) were the unwanted Bilingual forced out  with
the abusive and illegal racist , ethnic cleansing Bill C 101 , a United
Nations violation.  However since they don't have a French name in this
Bilingualism  undemocratic French CLASS system, even if they pass the
ridiculous Kurdish exam, and French exam, within the Government and
military, they cannot get promoted!  English students competing against
Franco-Ontarions who force their way into English High School French
Immersion programs (where these French students are bored, increase class
sizes to an unnecessary 36 or more) , then demand a Higher level of French
rather then having these children in a French High school to begin with (the
reason is the French child CANNOT master French i.e. their marks would be in
the low 50's or 60's! Meanwhile the English child faces a French teacher
that ignores them , focuses on the French children and refuses to help the
English children in any way until the English quit so they can actually get
an education.  I've tutored these High School students who've worked hard
learning French which they NEVER get to REALLY use and spoken to these
teachers who could care less about their English students because the
English are the enemy! There is a shortage of French teachers and many are
incompetent, speak Creole (a French haitian dialect) and could care less
about teaching French for the love of the language.  French learning English
in Quebec (when they are able to get private tutors) whether children or
adults generally learn English in 6 to 12 months simply because ENGLISH IS
EASIER PERIOD and they hear it on television and use it on the internet and
in 9 other provinces + Florida!! Chinese learn English, Yugoslavians learn
English, etc.  Some French who travel to Florida think the Americans even
should learn French!  The French aren't getting married and aren't having
children.  If you don't include Quebec (where English is illegal and the
majority are unilingual) ONLY 3.2% outside Quebec are french.  The Montfort
Hospital in Ottawa thinks it's in Quebec and DOESN't have to offer English
including SARS signs or speak English for its MOSTLY English patients.
Maybe the English should refuse to go there until it closes down.  Air
Canada in ruins (maybe if we didn't spend so much on Bilingualism, we'd have
an air line, an Armed Forces that isn't a joke , Health Care that isn't in
crisis, a decent Education system (the bottom line is children should be
literate and bilingualism is a failure according to studies done on it!
There are many Anglophones who were forced out of Quebec with sentiments
like Vauten Chez Vous Maudit Anglais (go home stupid English) , Ferme ta
Yelle Tetu (shut your muzzle sucker)  told constantly that they were 2nd
class citizens, Rheal Mathieu getting only 6 months as an FLQ terrorist who
bombed 2nd cup (oh yes Deep Blue) I forgot he's a Quebec hero!  400,000
forced out of Quebec due to ethnic cleansing  and racism (National
Geographic Nov 1997) The English losing their jobs in Quebec city for daring
to speak English to a family member.  After all Quebec with it's illegal
United Nations violation Bill C101  (article 20) : any advocacy of national
, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination,
hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law. meanwhile our 35 years of
French politicians has allowed this hatred of the English, perpetuated it.
How about the King of France 1759 when he abandoned the French and created
fear (guess he like the others who got executed during the French revolution
was a saint), What about the French Catholic church (I am Catholic), I guess
they were innocent forcing the French to have 13 to 24 unwanted children and
NOT allowing them to get an education (they could be priests, doctors,
lawyers and very little else) Premier Duplesis from the 1930's to the 1960's
also CONTROLED the French. (including abusing Orphans falsely saying they
were mentally challenged or giving them labotomies along with the french
catholic church!  With Bill C101 , language Police , the Government to this
day promotes Hatred of the English and CONTROLS the french by NOT allowing
them to learn English. Quebec is a Police State two new books called le
candien noir and l'americain noir (The ugly English canadian and the Ugly
American!  So much for Pride in being of French decent or promoting
Bilingualism

The English should vote with one voice (like the French) for an English
Prime Minister - the French liberals are controling the English through
Bilingualism and allowing the French a disproportionate number of votes,
senators and unearned power!  Paul Martin like Mulroney is French and will
cater to Quebec!  End the 36 year reign of French prime ministers!


CC

Deep Blue <nobody@igs.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deep Blue" <nobody@igs.net>
Newsgroups: mtl.general,can.politics,tor.general,van.general,calgary.general
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: Federal hirings: 71% francophone, promotions: 68% francophone


> Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the same
> efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> stats would be more fair for you.
>
> And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
language
> and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
>
> And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
language,
> french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> those french books.
>
>

"Deep Blue" <nobody@igs.net> wrote in message
news:f2643490a599d002feeeebc0106a8fac@news.teranews.com...
> Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the same
> efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> stats would be more fair for you.
>
> And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
language
> and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
>
> And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
language,
> french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> those french books.
>
>
>
> ~Deep Blue~
>
> "Andrew Bestfrenn" <Andrewbestfrenn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c499781f.0304050425.47fd67db@posting.google.com...
> > Global National News with Kevin Newman audio link
> >
> > Hear audio of Global Television News story confirming
> > that 71% of all new hirings in the massive federal
> > public service are going to Francophones, and that 68% of
> > all job promotions are going to Francophones. Due to official
> > bilingualism, while Quebec is allowed to remain officially unilingual
> > French.  Francophones make up only a tiny fraction of the population
> > outside Quebec, yet we are allowing them to take over our federal
> > government.
> >
> > to hear the Global News audio
> > click here:
> > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/global.mp3
> >
> > to hear a tape of human rights expert Dr. Ritchie on this
> > topic go to:
> >
> > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/CFRA-Part1.mp3
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/3minclipDrRitchie04.mp3
> >
> > for further information:
> >
> >
> > www.languagefairness.org
>
>

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:30:27 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an english accent and
>makes a lot of mistakes
>
And your english is perfect???
But let's talk about where the majority of Quebec rejected the fear
mongering tactics of seperatists and voted them out of power.

Fucking idiot! Majority of seats in Quebec belongs to the Bloc!

Those who voted for Chrétien thru Canada are ethnic people of big town

Concerned Canadian a écrit :

> The English should vote with one voice (like the French) for an English
> Prime Minister - the French liberals are controlling the English through
> Bilingualism and allowing the French a disproportionate number of votes,
> senators and unearned power!  Paul Martin like Mulroney is French and will
> cater to Quebec!
>
> As a former Québecois who is trilingual, I find your insensitive and naieve
> point of view very disturbing.  Deep Blue had you grown up in Quebec where
> English immersion is illegal, you would be unilingual French.  Are you
> presuming that because you have had French parents and lived in Ontario that
> you are superior to unilingual Quebecois, the English, the Chinese, Arabs,
> Hatiians , Spanish, Ukranian and other unilingual Canadians. As an educator
> who has taught French, the reality is that the vast majority of supposed
> Bilingual assimilated Franco-Ontarions cannot speak or Write French
> properly.  The poor quality of Joyal French  is quite honestly atrocious
> compared to true Quebecois or French from France. Franco-Ontarions Work in
> English speaking 4 words of French and 3 words of English (worse then
> Acadian French).  Many don't even speak French in their homes so what kind
> of nonsense is this 57 billion  (Canadian Tax payer statistics since
> conception) french bilingual mythology (6 billion a year or more)
> Franco-Ontarion french is similar to the English spoken by some Southern
> Americans. The French language is meant to show that the mastery of French
> can often only be achieved by the most skilled and well educated
> aristocrats. French is a melodious language designed to confuse. The French
> who know their language well, who are flawless find English to be more
> expedient, clear and faster to use. Very few French truly master their own
> language. French is an impractical language for modern times. French is an
> intolerant language and a beautiful luxury for those who have time to show
> it off.  Many Franco Ontarions can barely draft a French letter and most
> times send it to translators (at great cost to mostly English Canadians
> footing the bill for this atrocious illiteracy)! Jean Chretien himself can
> speak neither French nor English properly.  When traveling through France,
> the French have difficulty understanding Quebecers and an even worse time
> with Ontario Francophones! I challenge Deep blue to learn a language the
> hard way (not through his parents and local community but in a school) like
> most of us who understand what it actually takes to learn languages.  Deep
> Blue take a German course, then never get to practice German (as most
> English NEVER EVER get to practice French) and then see if you actually
> learn German!  Or take flying lessons but never fly a plane, would you be a
> pilot?   Shame on you for perpetuating a myth that the English are somehow
> NOT trying to learn French.  The 400,000 English etc. forced out of Quebec
> (National Geographic Nov 97) were the unwanted Bilingual forced out  with
> the abusive and illegal racist , ethnic cleansing Bill C 101 , a United
> Nations violation.  However since they don't have a French name in this
> Bilingualism  undemocratic French CLASS system, even if they pass the
> ridiculous Kurdish exam, and French exam, within the Government and
> military, they cannot get promoted!  English students competing against
> Franco-Ontarions who force their way into English High School French
> Immersion programs (where these French students are bored, increase class
> sizes to an unnecessary 36 or more) , then demand a Higher level of French
> rather then having these children in a French High school to begin with (the
> reason is the French child CANNOT master French i.e. their marks would be in
> the low 50's or 60's! Meanwhile the English child faces a French teacher
> that ignores them , focuses on the French children and refuses to help the
> English children in any way until the English quit so they can actually get
> an education.  I've tutored these High School students who've worked hard
> learning French which they NEVER get to REALLY use and spoken to these
> teachers who could care less about their English students because the
> English are the enemy! There is a shortage of French teachers and many are
> incompetent, speak Creole (a French haitian dialect) and could care less
> about teaching French for the love of the language.  French learning English
> in Quebec (when they are able to get private tutors) whether children or
> adults generally learn English in 6 to 12 months simply because ENGLISH IS
> EASIER PERIOD and they hear it on television and use it on the internet and
> in 9 other provinces + Florida!! Chinese learn English, Yugoslavians learn
> English, etc.  Some French who travel to Florida think the Americans even
> should learn French!  The French aren't getting married and aren't having
> children.  If you don't include Quebec (where English is illegal and the
> majority are unilingual) ONLY 3.2% outside Quebec are french.  The Montfort
> Hospital in Ottawa thinks it's in Quebec and DOESN't have to offer English
> including SARS signs or speak English for its MOSTLY English patients.
> Maybe the English should refuse to go there until it closes down.  Air
> Canada in ruins (maybe if we didn't spend so much on Bilingualism, we'd have
> an air line, an Armed Forces that isn't a joke , Health Care that isn't in
> crisis, a decent Education system (the bottom line is children should be
> literate and bilingualism is a failure according to studies done on it!
> There are many Anglophones who were forced out of Quebec with sentiments
> like Vauten Chez Vous Maudit Anglais (go home stupid English) , Ferme ta
> Yelle Tetu (shut your muzzle sucker)  told constantly that they were 2nd
> class citizens, Rheal Mathieu getting only 6 months as an FLQ terrorist who
> bombed 2nd cup (oh yes Deep Blue) I forgot he's a Quebec hero!  400,000
> forced out of Quebec due to ethnic cleansing  and racism (National
> Geographic Nov 1997) The English losing their jobs in Quebec city for daring
> to speak English to a family member.  After all Quebec with it's illegal
> United Nations violation Bill C101  (article 20) : any advocacy of national
> , racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination,
> hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law. meanwhile our 35 years of
> French politicians has allowed this hatred of the English, perpetuated it.
> How about the King of France 1759 when he abandoned the French and created
> fear (guess he like the others who got executed during the French revolution
> was a saint), What about the French Catholic church (I am Catholic), I guess
> they were innocent forcing the French to have 13 to 24 unwanted children and
> NOT allowing them to get an education (they could be priests, doctors,
> lawyers and very little else) Premier Duplesis from the 1930's to the 1960's
> also CONTROLED the French. (including abusing Orphans falsely saying they
> were mentally challenged or giving them labotomies along with the french
> catholic church!  With Bill C101 , language Police , the Government to this
> day promotes Hatred of the English and CONTROLS the french by NOT allowing
> them to learn English. Quebec is a Police State two new books called le
> candien noir and l'americain noir (The ugly English canadian and the Ugly
> American!  So much for Pride in being of French decent or promoting
> Bilingualism
>
> The English should vote with one voice (like the French) for an English
> Prime Minister - the French liberals are controling the English through
> Bilingualism and allowing the French a disproportionate number of votes,
> senators and unearned power!  Paul Martin like Mulroney is French and will
> cater to Quebec!  End the 36 year reign of French prime ministers!
>
> CC
>
> Deep Blue <nobody@igs.net>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deep Blue" <nobody@igs.net>
> Newsgroups: mtl.general,can.politics,tor.general,van.general,calgary.general
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Federal hirings: 71% francophone, promotions: 68% francophone
>
> > Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the same
> > efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> > stats would be more fair for you.
> >
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
> >
> > And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
> language,
> > french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> > those french books.
> >
> >
>
> "Deep Blue" <nobody@igs.net> wrote in message
> news:f2643490a599d002feeeebc0106a8fac@news.teranews.com...
> > Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the same
> > efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> > stats would be more fair for you.
> >
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
> >
> > And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
> language,
> > french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> > those french books.
> >
> >
> >
> > ~Deep Blue~
> >
> > "Andrew Bestfrenn" <Andrewbestfrenn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:c499781f.0304050425.47fd67db@posting.google.com...
> > > Global National News with Kevin Newman audio link
> > >
> > > Hear audio of Global Television News story confirming
> > > that 71% of all new hirings in the massive federal
> > > public service are going to Francophones, and that 68% of
> > > all job promotions are going to Francophones. Due to official
> > > bilingualism, while Quebec is allowed to remain officially unilingual
> > > French.  Francophones make up only a tiny fraction of the population
> > > outside Quebec, yet we are allowing them to take over our federal
> > > government.
> > >
> > > to hear the Global News audio
> > > click here:
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/global.mp3
> > >
> > > to hear a tape of human rights expert Dr. Ritchie on this
> > > topic go to:
> > >
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/CFRA-Part1.mp3
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/3minclipDrRitchie04.mp3
> > >
> > > for further information:
> > >
> > >
> > > www.languagefairness.org
> >
> >

Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an english accent and
makes a lot of mistakes

Concerned Canadian a écrit :

> The English should vote with one voice (like the French) for an English
> Prime Minister - the French liberals are controlling the English through
> Bilingualism and allowing the French a disproportionate number of votes,
> senators and unearned power!  Paul Martin like Mulroney is French and will
> cater to Quebec!
>
> As a former Québecois who is trilingual, I find your insensitive and naieve
> point of view very disturbing.  Deep Blue had you grown up in Quebec where
> English immersion is illegal, you would be unilingual French.  Are you
> presuming that because you have had French parents and lived in Ontario that
> you are superior to unilingual Quebecois, the English, the Chinese, Arabs,
> Hatiians , Spanish, Ukranian and other unilingual Canadians. As an educator
> who has taught French, the reality is that the vast majority of supposed
> Bilingual assimilated Franco-Ontarions cannot speak or Write French
> properly.  The poor quality of Joyal French  is quite honestly atrocious
> compared to true Quebecois or French from France. Franco-Ontarions Work in
> English speaking 4 words of French and 3 words of English (worse then
> Acadian French).  Many don't even speak French in their homes so what kind
> of nonsense is this 57 billion  (Canadian Tax payer statistics since
> conception) french bilingual mythology (6 billion a year or more)
> Franco-Ontarion french is similar to the English spoken by some Southern
> Americans. The French language is meant to show that the mastery of French
> can often only be achieved by the most skilled and well educated
> aristocrats. French is a melodious language designed to confuse. The French
> who know their language well, who are flawless find English to be more
> expedient, clear and faster to use. Very few French truly master their own
> language. French is an impractical language for modern times. French is an
> intolerant language and a beautiful luxury for those who have time to show
> it off.  Many Franco Ontarions can barely draft a French letter and most
> times send it to translators (at great cost to mostly English Canadians
> footing the bill for this atrocious illiteracy)! Jean Chretien himself can
> speak neither French nor English properly.  When traveling through France,
> the French have difficulty understanding Quebecers and an even worse time
> with Ontario Francophones! I challenge Deep blue to learn a language the
> hard way (not through his parents and local community but in a school) like
> most of us who understand what it actually takes to learn languages.  Deep
> Blue take a German course, then never get to practice German (as most
> English NEVER EVER get to practice French) and then see if you actually
> learn German!  Or take flying lessons but never fly a plane, would you be a
> pilot?   Shame on you for perpetuating a myth that the English are somehow
> NOT trying to learn French.  The 400,000 English etc. forced out of Quebec
> (National Geographic Nov 97) were the unwanted Bilingual forced out  with
> the abusive and illegal racist , ethnic cleansing Bill C 101 , a United
> Nations violation.  However since they don't have a French name in this
> Bilingualism  undemocratic French CLASS system, even if they pass the
> ridiculous Kurdish exam, and French exam, within the Government and
> military, they cannot get promoted!  English students competing against
> Franco-Ontarions who force their way into English High School French
> Immersion programs (where these French students are bored, increase class
> sizes to an unnecessary 36 or more) , then demand a Higher level of French
> rather then having these children in a French High school to begin with (the
> reason is the French child CANNOT master French i.e. their marks would be in
> the low 50's or 60's! Meanwhile the English child faces a French teacher
> that ignores them , focuses on the French children and refuses to help the
> English children in any way until the English quit so they can actually get
> an education.  I've tutored these High School students who've worked hard
> learning French which they NEVER get to REALLY use and spoken to these
> teachers who could care less about their English students because the
> English are the enemy! There is a shortage of French teachers and many are
> incompetent, speak Creole (a French haitian dialect) and could care less
> about teaching French for the love of the language.  French learning English
> in Quebec (when they are able to get private tutors) whether children or
> adults generally learn English in 6 to 12 months simply because ENGLISH IS
> EASIER PERIOD and they hear it on television and use it on the internet and
> in 9 other provinces + Florida!! Chinese learn English, Yugoslavians learn
> English, etc.  Some French who travel to Florida think the Americans even
> should learn French!  The French aren't getting married and aren't having
> children.  If you don't include Quebec (where English is illegal and the
> majority are unilingual) ONLY 3.2% outside Quebec are french.  The Montfort
> Hospital in Ottawa thinks it's in Quebec and DOESN't have to offer English
> including SARS signs or speak English for its MOSTLY English patients.
> Maybe the English should refuse to go there until it closes down.  Air
> Canada in ruins (maybe if we didn't spend so much on Bilingualism, we'd have
> an air line, an Armed Forces that isn't a joke , Health Care that isn't in
> crisis, a decent Education system (the bottom line is children should be
> literate and bilingualism is a failure according to studies done on it!
> There are many Anglophones who were forced out of Quebec with sentiments
> like Vauten Chez Vous Maudit Anglais (go home stupid English) , Ferme ta
> Yelle Tetu (shut your muzzle sucker)  told constantly that they were 2nd
> class citizens, Rheal Mathieu getting only 6 months as an FLQ terrorist who
> bombed 2nd cup (oh yes Deep Blue) I forgot he's a Quebec hero!  400,000
> forced out of Quebec due to ethnic cleansing  and racism (National
> Geographic Nov 1997) The English losing their jobs in Quebec city for daring
> to speak English to a family member.  After all Quebec with it's illegal
> United Nations violation Bill C101  (article 20) : any advocacy of national
> , racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination,
> hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law. meanwhile our 35 years of
> French politicians has allowed this hatred of the English, perpetuated it.
> How about the King of France 1759 when he abandoned the French and created
> fear (guess he like the others who got executed during the French revolution
> was a saint), What about the French Catholic church (I am Catholic), I guess
> they were innocent forcing the French to have 13 to 24 unwanted children and
> NOT allowing them to get an education (they could be priests, doctors,
> lawyers and very little else) Premier Duplesis from the 1930's to the 1960's
> also CONTROLED the French. (including abusing Orphans falsely saying they
> were mentally challenged or giving them labotomies along with the french
> catholic church!  With Bill C101 , language Police , the Government to this
> day promotes Hatred of the English and CONTROLS the french by NOT allowing
> them to learn English. Quebec is a Police State two new books called le
> candien noir and l'americain noir (The ugly English canadian and the Ugly
> American!  So much for Pride in being of French decent or promoting
> Bilingualism
>
> The English should vote with one voice (like the French) for an English
> Prime Minister - the French liberals are controling the English through
> Bilingualism and allowing the French a disproportionate number of votes,
> senators and unearned power!  Paul Martin like Mulroney is French and will
> cater to Quebec!  End the 36 year reign of French prime ministers!
>
> CC
>
> Deep Blue <nobody@igs.net>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deep Blue" <nobody@igs.net>
> Newsgroups: mtl.general,can.politics,tor.general,van.general,calgary.general
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 5:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Federal hirings: 71% francophone, promotions: 68% francophone
>
> > Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the same
> > efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> > stats would be more fair for you.
> >
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
> >
> > And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
> language,
> > french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> > those french books.
> >
> >
>
> "Deep Blue" <nobody@igs.net> wrote in message
> news:f2643490a599d002feeeebc0106a8fac@news.teranews.com...
> > Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the same
> > efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> > stats would be more fair for you.
> >
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
> language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
> >
> > And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
> language,
> > french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read all
> > those french books.
> >
> >
> >
> > ~Deep Blue~
> >
> > "Andrew Bestfrenn" <Andrewbestfrenn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:c499781f.0304050425.47fd67db@posting.google.com...
> > > Global National News with Kevin Newman audio link
> > >
> > > Hear audio of Global Television News story confirming
> > > that 71% of all new hirings in the massive federal
> > > public service are going to Francophones, and that 68% of
> > > all job promotions are going to Francophones. Due to official
> > > bilingualism, while Quebec is allowed to remain officially unilingual
> > > French.  Francophones make up only a tiny fraction of the population
> > > outside Quebec, yet we are allowing them to take over our federal
> > > government.
> > >
> > > to hear the Global News audio
> > > click here:
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/global.mp3
> > >
> > > to hear a tape of human rights expert Dr. Ritchie on this
> > > topic go to:
> > >
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/CFRA-Part1.mp3
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/3minclipDrRitchie04.mp3
> > >
> > > for further information:
> > >
> > >
> > > www.languagefairness.org
> >
> >

Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!

Paul Morgan a écrit :

> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:30:27 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an english accent and
> >makes a lot of mistakes
> >
> And your english is perfect???
> But let's talk about where the majority of Quebec rejected the fear
> mongering tactics of seperatists and voted them out of power.

Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote in news:3EA0F706.3F4060FB@yahoo.fr:

> Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!
> 

And about 60,000 fewer people voted than in 1998.  At least Landry had
the class to show up at the concession speech sober and not bitching
about money and the ethnic vote. 

K


> Paul Morgan a �crit :
> 
>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:30:27 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>> >Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an
>> >english 
> accent and
>> >makes a lot of mistakes
>> >
>> And your english is perfect???
>> But let's talk about where the majority of Quebec rejected the fear
>> mongering tactics of seperatists and voted them out of power.
> 
> 



-- 
To reply by email remove the two copies of spam in my return address

Bidou wrote:

> Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!

The point is:-  Quebecers democratically elected a Liberal government.  Their choice.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:13:10 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!


And he still won?

>
>Paul Morgan a �crit :
>
>> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:30:27 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>> >Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an english accent and
>> >makes a lot of mistakes
>> >
>> And your english is perfect???
>> But let's talk about where the majority of Quebec rejected the fear
>> mongering tactics of seperatists and voted them out of power.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:41:44 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!
>
>Ralph Pippey a �crit :
>
>> Bidou wrote:
>>
>> > Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!
>>
>> The point is:-  Quebecers democratically elected a Liberal government.  Their choice.


So all the seperatists finally discovered that they are backing a
losing cause and stayed home.

Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:42:42 GMT, Paul Morgan <here@home.net> a �crit
:

>So all the seperatists finally discovered that they are backing a
>losing cause and stayed home.

If you had a better memory you would remember that Quebec sovereignty
reached its highs when liberals were in power.

Sovereignty on hold
The idea of an independent Quebec may have receded with Jean Charest's
crushing election win. But it could be merely dormant, one analyst
says
  
KEVIN DOUGHERTY  
The Gazette. Saturday, April 19, 2003
http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id=B1268743-A2B6-4EE2-8E57-5502A7BE99DC

(...) Maurice Pinard, professor emeritus of sociology at McGill
University and an adviser to the Council for Canadian Unity, agrees.

"The future of the sovereignist movement is far from being resolved,"
Pinard said. "It will be impossible for them to hold a referendum for
four or five years, maybe more, but it is far from dead.

"It could be in a period of hibernation," he added, noting that
support for Quebec sovereignty - which soared higher than 60 per cent
at the time - peaked in 1990, the last time the Quebec Liberals were
in power. (...)
-------------------------------------------

Paul Rodgers
~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ��L'histoire de la Conf�d�ration canadienne, c'est la s�rie lamentable 
   de nos d�ch�ances et de nos d�faites par la fausse conciliation.��

                                               Henri Bourassa
                                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bidou wrote:
> Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!

There's been a consistent downward trend in voter turnout all over North
America over the past few decades - nothing out of the ordinary.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:11:36 -0400, Videotron.ca@RdGp wrote:

>Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:42:42 GMT, Paul Morgan <here@home.net> a �crit
>:
>
>>So all the seperatists finally discovered that they are backing a
>>losing cause and stayed home.
>
>If you had a better memory you would remember that Quebec sovereignty
>reached its highs when liberals were in power.

And then they elected a party that was supposed to bring about
nationhood, instead it made Quebec what it is today, something to be
pitied and used as an example.

Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!

Ralph Pippey a écrit :

> Bidou wrote:
>
> > Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!
>
> The point is:-  Quebecers democratically elected a Liberal government.  Their choice.

Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:34:42 GMT, Paul Morgan <here@home.net> a �crit
:

>On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:11:36 -0400, Videotron.ca@RdGp wrote:
>
>>Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:42:42 GMT, Paul Morgan <here@home.net> a �crit
>>:
>>
>>>So all the seperatists finally discovered that they are backing a
>>>losing cause and stayed home.
>>
>>If you had a better memory you would remember that Quebec sovereignty
>>reached its highs when liberals were in power.
>
>And then they elected a party that was supposed to bring about
>nationhood, instead it made Quebec what it is today, something to be
>pitied and used as an example.

Wrong analyst. The Quebec liberal party was elected by default as was
the case in 1985. In both cases, not to bring about nationhood. Quebec
does not need to : we constitute a NATION. 

If the ROC is still chasing the same "National Unity" it claims to be
after since 1841, it suffers from a chronic problem no mercenary like
Trudeau, Chr�tien and much less Charest can resolve. It is your very
own to solve.

Paul Rodgers
~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ��L'histoire de la Conf�d�ration canadienne, c'est la s�rie lamentable 
   de nos d�ch�ances et de nos d�faites par la fausse conciliation.��

                                               Henri Bourassa
                                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:33:54 -0400, "stewacide"
<stewacide@hotmail.com> a �crit :

>Bidou wrote:
>> Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!
>
>There's been a consistent downward trend in voter turnout all over North
>America over the past few decades - nothing out of the ordinary.

Which downward trend Quebec's democracy had resisted successfully
since last week down fall. What will be your explanation should we
return to our recorded average up above 80 % participation as early as
the next general election...? It would confirm the ever decreasing
favor of the federalist option at both level of governments.

Paul Rodgers
~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ��L'histoire de la Conf�d�ration canadienne, c'est la s�rie lamentable 
   de nos d�ch�ances et de nos d�faites par la fausse conciliation.��

                                               Henri Bourassa
                                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bidou wrote:

> Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!
>

I don't always like the election results in elections I've voted in, but it was still the
bottom line of everybody's choice of who to vote for.

By the way, Bidou, did you vote?

Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:56:17 GMT, Ralph Pippey <pippey@nbnet.nb.ca> a
�crit :

>Bidou wrote:
>
>> Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!
>>
>I don't always like the election results in elections I've voted in, but it was still the
>bottom line of everybody's choice of who to vote for.

Not to be discarded is the fact that the lowest turn-outs were
recorded in hard-core federalist electoral districts. Most PQ MNA were
elected around Quebec's average participation rate. Where, in the
Outaouais, for example, the participation rates went from 62 % down to
58 % in Hull. That speaks volumes. So much that it becomes easier to
understand why so many did not vote than it is to understand why
others did and the way they did...

Paul Rodgers
~~~~~~~~~~~~

 ��L'histoire de la Conf�d�ration canadienne, c'est la s�rie lamentable 
   de nos d�ch�ances et de nos d�faites par la fausse conciliation.��

                                               Henri Bourassa
                                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:00:18 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>He won! Like Chr�tien won with 40% of the votes! Like Bush won with less votes than
>Gore. Our democracies are sick

Should have went to 20%, then your side would have won.  LOL


>
>Paul Morgan a �crit :
>
>> On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:13:10 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>> >Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!
>>
>> And he still won?
>>
>> >
>> >Paul Morgan a �crit :
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:30:27 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an english accent and
>> >> >makes a lot of mistakes
>> >> >
>> >> And your english is perfect???
>> >> But let's talk about where the majority of Quebec rejected the fear
>> >> mongering tactics of seperatists and voted them out of power.

Right! But those who keep on to vote are liberals clientele like the old
people

stewacide a écrit :

> Bidou wrote:
> > Their choice.....lowest turn over since 1927!
>
> There's been a consistent downward trend in voter turnout all over North
> America over the past few decades - nothing out of the ordinary.

He won! Like Chrétien won with 40% of the votes! Like Bush won with less votes than
Gore. Our democracies are sick

Paul Morgan a écrit :

> On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:13:10 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >Charest got 20,000 votes less than in 1998!!
>
> And he still won?
>
> >
> >Paul Morgan a écrit :
> >
> >> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 22:30:27 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Fucking idiot! Paul Martin is anglo! He speaks french with an english accent and
> >> >makes a lot of mistakes
> >> >
> >> And your english is perfect???
> >> But let's talk about where the majority of Quebec rejected the fear
> >> mongering tactics of seperatists and voted them out of power.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:11:36 -0400, Videotron.ca@RdGp wrote:

>Le Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:42:42 GMT, Paul Morgan <here@home.net> a �crit
>:
>
>>So all the seperatists finally discovered that they are backing a
>>losing cause and stayed home.
>
>If you had a better memory you would remember that Quebec sovereignty
>reached its highs when liberals were in power.

It then takes the reality of a seppie government to put them off the
idea.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:59:14 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>Right! But those who keep on to vote are liberals clientele like the old
>people

Ah so now it is not just the ethnics and the anglophones who are not
"true" Quebeckers, it's the old people as well. Well you will have to
wait a little longer until you can build your "utopia" where
non-francophonies and old people can be excluded from the democratic
process because they refuse to think the way you do. In most societies
the old folk are respected for their wisdom, I see that idea is alien
to Quebeck?

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:00:18 -0400, Bidou <bidou@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>He won! Like Chr�tien won with 40% of the votes! Like Bush won with less votes than
>Gore. Our democracies are sick

Yes, I remember that in the last Quebeck election the seppies won with
fewer votes than the liberals. I don't recall your refusing to take up
the government because of that. This time it took a 10% lead on the
popular vote to overcome the advantage that the system gives to the
seppies.

Videotron.ca@RdGp wrote:
> we constitute a NATION. 


And what is a "nation"?

A people? a country? its both and the two don't have anything legal to 
do with each other.

-- 
Marko Jotic
"Common sense is anything but common".
 From the notebooks of Lazarus Long. Robert A. Heinlein.
Handmade knives, antique designs, exotic materials at 
http://www.knifeforging.com/

Bidou wrote:
> Right! But those who keep on to vote are liberals clientele like the old
> people

So if you can't get "your" vote out, maybe its because what you are 
offering is crap.



-- 
Marko Jotic
"Common sense is anything but common".
 From the notebooks of Lazarus Long. Robert A. Heinlein.
Handmade knives, antique designs, exotic materials at 
http://www.knifeforging.com/

I agree.  When the Honorable Lucienne Robillard  our French Treasury Board
minister with her 2/3 French staff controling our tax dollars giving grants
to the over 77 French Self Interest groups in Ontario alone, is now eyeing
the 68% government positions that will become available, this has absolutely
nothing to do with learning languages. Dyan Adam Minister of Official
Languages (French languages actually) an unelected official ignores abused
French seniors in Long Term Care has 75% French staff, then the minority who
are baracudas want raw power!  I've already learned French and German but
mostly NEVER get to use either unless I'm with immigrants - Franco-Ontarions
unfortunately are assimilated English and switch to English constantly.
However, since  I don't have a French  cousin etc. working  in government
and since my spouse passed the year long French course but they are English,
neither of us can think about getting promoted in this French CLASS system.
First they bully their own people in Quebec for decades or centuries.  Then
they blame the English for everything.  Then they whine and threaten
Separation because they are misunderstood.  According to an article in the
Citizen it has cost 200 billion since 1961 for French votes.  Then Franco
Ontarions cry about their French and Green flag which cannot be put up ALL
over English Ontario.  Worse are the separatist teachers - one who taught my
child and nearly destroyed her self esteem (an unbelievable bully who played
the Charles Degaulle tape to the students told them anyone with a French
name who did NOT speak English is a traitor - advising students that parents
could do nothing . She was right, this separatist got  to teach and abuse
students for years (claiming discrimination etc. if a parent dared
complain)!  French members on English school boards!   The traitors are the
ones running our government for a minority while the majority pay for that.
Also having Francophones teaching English in an English school is the height
of arrogance and now a make work project for French teachers (meanwhile
there is a shortage of French teachers in Immersion) The reality is these
Franco- Ontarions like their brainwashed cousins in Quebec CANNOT think for
themselves, they've lived within a patriarchal society for so long, they
think that 26 million Canadians who DO NOT speak French should also be under
a police state - controlled through language for political gain!

cc

==============================================
The requirement to speak French, however useless, is a nice neat high jump
with
> which to prevent all but the only ones that speak French from holding
office.
> The only reason the requirement is there is because it works just the way
it is
> supposed to. It gives a totally disproportionate number of jobs and all
the jobs
> with power to the French. All the politicians know that.  None has had the
> courage to stand against the enactment of these seemingly harmless laws
that
> simply accommodate linguistic fairness in the workplace.
>
> >
> >
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
>
> Who cares? Well one might not think that it would not matter, but it does!
>
>  Bilingualism is a French Canadian creation devised by a succession of
French
> Prime Ministers, to strip Anglos of all power. Canada was an English
country
> with a French province. The language of the land was that of the majority
and
> the language of the French province was that of the majority of that
province.
> The arrangement was quite reasonable. Both majorities used their own
language
> (so to speak).
>
> Actually, we are not all Canadians. There are Canadians and there are
French
> Canadians. The French Canadians are a warm hearted wonderful group. But
they are
> a group, and what my seventy odd years of working beside and with them has
shown
> me, is that their history has taught them to look after their brothers,
sisters,
> cousins, community, region and province to the exclusion of all else. In a
word
> they exhibit a siege mentality. They are for anything French Canadian and
> against anything not French Canadian. It's a wonderful trait but it is the
basis
> of systemic racism.
>
> As wonderful a society as they are, if you are not French, these are not
the
> people you want looking after your country. You might wake up some morning
and
> find that the language of the majority was no longer the language of the
> country. You might wake up and find that all the jobs in your federal
service
> are filled with Frenchmen and all their unqualified cousins ants and
uncles and
> worse yet, they were locked into those jobs for life with guaranteed
government
> pensions that you will have to pay for until they die and their survivors
> ta-boot. You might wake up to find that all the government contracting is
> directed into Quebec. You might wake up to find out that the job you have
had
> for years has been designated BILINGUAL. You might wake up to find that
your
> town has been amalgamated and is suddenly BILINGUAL. You might wake up
some
> morning and take note that nothing new is ever being built in your city
but
> oddly enough the town opposite you, in Quebec, has more new buildings and
> construction that it can handle and that BILINGUALS are moving into it
from all
> over it to take advantage of the French prosperity.
"Walt Strauss" <ws.hra@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3E90080B.4D6CD430@sympatico.ca...
>
>
> Deep Blue wrote:
>
> > Well, it's all your fault, english people! If only you were doing the
same
> > efforts to speak french that us french people do to speak english, those
> > stats would be more fair for you.
>
> Well fancy that, the man's saying that it's the English who are at fault
because
> the French language is used so little by any but the French that learning
it and
> retaining it are almost impossible for any but themselves. Christ! They
even had
> to use a racist law (bill 101) to try to force their own people to retain
their
> language.  How or why would or could anyone else want to use it?
>
> The requirement to speak French, however useless, is a nice neat high jump
with
> which to prevent all but the only ones that speak French from holding
office.
> The only reason the requirement is there is because it works just the way
it is
> supposed to. It gives a totally disproportionate number of jobs and all
the jobs
> with power to the French. All the politicians know that.  None has had the
> courage to stand against the enactment of these seemingly harmless laws
that
> simply accommodate linguistic fairness in the workplace.
>
> >
> >
> > And we're all still Canadians (no i'm not a separatist). So who cares if
> > there's more francophones than anglophones??? Just learn the french
language
> > and be bilingual and get hired / promoted too !
>
> Who cares? Well one might not think that it would not matter, but it does!
>
>  Bilingualism is a French Canadian creation devised by a succession of
French
> Prime Ministers, to strip Anglos of all power. Canada was an English
country
> with a French province. The language of the land was that of the majority
and
> the language of the French province was that of the majority of that
province.
> The arrangement was quite reasonable. Both majorities used their own
language
> (so to speak).
>
> Actually, we are not all Canadians. There are Canadians and there are
French
> Canadians. The French Canadians are a warm hearted wonderful group. But
they are
> a group, and what my seventy odd years of working beside and with them has
shown
> me, is that their history has taught them to look after their brothers,
sisters,
> cousins, community, region and province to the exclusion of all else. In a
word
> they exhibit a siege mentality. They are for anything French Canadian and
> against anything not French Canadian. It's a wonderful trait but it is the
basis
> of systemic racism.
>
> As wonderful a society as they are, if you are not French, these are not
the
> people you want looking after your country. You might wake up some morning
and
> find that the language of the majority was no longer the language of the
> country. You might wake up and find that all the jobs in your federal
service
> are filled with Frenchmen and all their unqualified cousins ants and
uncles and
> worse yet, they were locked into those jobs for life with guaranteed
government
> pensions that you will have to pay for until they die and their survivors
> ta-boot. You might wake up to find that all the government contracting is
> directed into Quebec. You might wake up to find out that the job you have
had
> for years has been designated BILINGUAL. You might wake up to find that
your
> town has been amalgamated and is suddenly BILINGUAL. You might wake up
some
> morning and take note that nothing new is ever being built in your city
but
> oddly enough the town opposite you, in Quebec, has more new buildings and
> construction that it can handle and that BILINGUALS are moving into it
from all
> over it to take advantage of the French prosperity.
>
> >
> >
> > And while I love english because it's a very practical and direct
language,
> > french is so beautiful and poetic! It's worth to learn it just to read
all
> > those french books.
>
> That means so, so much to me.
>
> >
> >
> > ~Deep Blue~
> >
> > "Andrew Bestfrenn" <Andrewbestfrenn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:c499781f.0304050425.47fd67db@posting.google.com...
> > > Global National News with Kevin Newman audio link
> > >
> > > Hear audio of Global Television News story confirming
> > > that 71% of all new hirings in the massive federal
> > > public service are going to Francophones, and that 68% of
> > > all job promotions are going to Francophones. Due to official
> > > bilingualism, while Quebec is allowed to remain officially unilingual
> > > French.  Francophones make up only a tiny fraction of the population
> > > outside Quebec, yet we are allowing them to take over our federal
> > > government.
> > >
> > > to hear the Global News audio
> > > click here:
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/global.mp3
> > >
> > > to hear a tape of human rights expert Dr. Ritchie on this
> > > topic go to:
> > >
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/CFRA-Part1.mp3
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > http://www.languagefairness.org/mp3/3minclipDrRitchie04.mp3
> > >
> > > for further information:
> > >
> > >
> > > www.languagefairness.org
>