🚀 go-pugleaf

The commie left is not in opposition to this program!

Both parties are involved and both parties apparently do not care
about the limitations of the US Consitution and Bill of RIghts.

SPD 51, a new directive from the White House, makes any president a
total dictator!

SPD : Special Directive  51

What is happening to my country?  Why are both parties now one?

Trace wrote:
>> From WorldNetDaily on May 30 2007 5:40pm

<snip of idiot.drivel>

Amazing...

Almost the very minute someone mentions he's moved on, here is the 
Travidiot, back and posting asinine nonsense from WorldNutDaily, no less...

David, you're still an idiot. As long as you're around, poor, dumb George, 
as stupid as he is, will just have to wait to inherit the title of Global 
Village Idiot.

-- 
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
� 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile
on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the
12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. 

On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
> facilities in the event of a national emergency.

Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating at 
least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we believe 
this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?

-- 
John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA

On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:

> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
> 
> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating 
> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we 
> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?

Because some of the stories are REAL.

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a plan by the United 
States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers 
of American citizens in case of massive civil unrest or national 
emergency. Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen periodically.[1] Plans 
for roundups of persons in the United States in times of crisis are 
constructed during periods of increased political repression such as 
the Palmer Raids and the McCarthy Era. For example, from 1967 to 1971 
the FBI kept a list of persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed 
the "ADEX" list.[2]
According to scholar Diana Reynolds:
The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan), 
[otherwise known as a continuity of government plan], indicates that 
FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and 
agencies conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. 
It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs 
exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise 
(including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency 
scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, 
Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and 
departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret 
Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the 
Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military 
assistance in civil defense.
The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and 
strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource 
mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization 
for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian 
populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain 
unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial 
rule.[3]
Existence of a master military contingency plan, "Garden Plot" and a 
similar earlier exercise, "Lantern Spike" were originally revealed by 
alternative journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in 
"Garden Plot and the New Action Army."[4]
Rex 84 was mentioned during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and 
subsequently reported on by the Miami Herald on July 5th, 1987. [5]A 
number of websites and alternative publications that span the political 
spectrum have hypothesized upon the basic material about Rex 84, and in 
many cases hyperbolized it into a form of urban legend or conspiracy 
theory. Nonetheless, the basic facts about Rex 84 and other contingency 
planning readiness exercises--and the potential threat they pose to 
civil liberties if fully implemented in a real operation--are taken 
seriously by scholars and civil liberties activists.



-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:

>On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>
>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>> 
>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating 
>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we 
>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>
>Because some of the stories are REAL.

It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
exists.  Fuck them.

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>
>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>> 
>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating 
>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we 
>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>
>>Because some of the stories are REAL.
>
>It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>exists.  Fuck them.

And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave the
vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting them? Is
there anyone actually staying on the dark side and considering the
failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?  Damage done to our
freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
action by the terrorists.  How about actually looking at the
candidates this next election and thinking of the republic as a whole
and not your own hole as a republic.  

Bat T Ball wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating 
>>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we 
>>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>> exists.  Fuck them.
> 
> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave the
> vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting them? Is
> there anyone actually staying on the dark side and considering the
> failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?  Damage done to our
> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
> action by the terrorists.  How about actually looking at the
> candidates this next election and thinking of the republic as a whole
> and not your own hole as a republic.  
> 

You said:

	"Damage done to our
	 freedom was far worse than was done physically after the 			 criminal 
action by the terrorists."

Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO* freedoms, 
nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I did before the 
current administration. After all, I have lived through the 
administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, 
Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague generalities will not 
be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through both WWII and the Korean 
War where I served.  I was deployed to a combat area longer than Senator 
Kerry and also earned a few minor decorations, so if you are talking 
about "rights" for our detainees, you will have to explain why we didn't 
give equivalent rights to the Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans 
and Chinese captured in those wars.

Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked carefully at 
  ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have found *none* 
that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a number in both 
parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show little understanding 
of even Economics 101, much less larger issues of macroeconomics.  They 
actually seem to assume that price controls and excess profits taxes 
will *help*.  Apparently, they don't remember the Carter 
administration's results during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. 
Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the service stations?

They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and 
Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same problems 
of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my wife and I were 
under either of their systems, we would both likely be dead now.  We 
both have been successfully treated for cancer starting in 1999 and 2000 
and we're both still here.  With cancer, prompt treatment is essential.

I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business 
assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where my 
wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care and the 
Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem much too 
theocratic for my taste.

I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored, and I 
will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or profanity.

It is your choice.

Regards...

Tom

tom spillman wrote:

> Bat T Ball wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been 
>>>>> circulating at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  
>>>>> Why should we believe this one any more than the dozens that have 
>>>>> come before it?
>>>>
>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>>
>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>>> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>>> exists.  Fuck them.
>>
>>
>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave the
>> vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting them? Is
>> there anyone actually staying on the dark side and considering the
>> failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?  Damage done to our
>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>> action by the terrorists.  How about actually looking at the
>> candidates this next election and thinking of the republic as a whole
>> and not your own hole as a republic. 
> 
> 
> You said:
> 
>     "Damage done to our
>      freedom was far worse than was done physically after 
> the              criminal action by the terrorists."
> 
> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO* freedoms, 
> nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I did before the 
> current administration. After all, I have lived through the 
> administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, 
> Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague generalities will not 
> be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through both WWII and the Korean 
> War where I served.  I was deployed to a combat area longer than Senator 
> Kerry and also earned a few minor decorations, so if you are talking 
> about "rights" for our detainees, you will have to explain why we didn't 
> give equivalent rights to the Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans 
> and Chinese captured in those wars.
> 
> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked carefully at 
>  ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have found *none* 
> that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a number in both 
> parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show little understanding 
> of even Economics 101, much less larger issues of macroeconomics.  They 
> actually seem to assume that price controls and excess profits taxes 
> will *help*.  Apparently, they don't remember the Carter 
> administration's results during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. Remember 
> the gasoline shortages and long lines at the service stations?
> 

The Arab boycott occurred during the Nixon administration shortly after 
the Six Day War (I believe in 1973).

I believe the shortage you are describing was the result of Iranian cut 
off of supplies following the Islamic revolution in 1978 which was 
during the Carter administration which I consider by far the worst in 
modern history.


> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and 
> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same problems 
> of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my wife and I were 
> under either of their systems, we would both likely be dead now.  We 
> both have been successfully treated for cancer starting in 1999 and 2000 
> and we're both still here.  With cancer, prompt treatment is essential.
> 
> I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business 
> assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where my 
> wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care and the 
> Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem much too 
> theocratic for my taste.
> 

I think that it would be nuts NOT to have contingency plans to cope with 
internal civil unrest/terrorism as this is a real and increasing threat 
which has been illustrated by recent events such as the planned attacks 
on Ft. Dix and just this weekend the revelation of sabotage at JFK 
International airport.

Oh, I do find the possibly of one bright face on the horizon in the 
persona of Fred Thompson...

JT

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> 
>>  Apparently, they don't remember the 
>> Carter administration's results during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. 
>> Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the service stations?
>>
> 
> The Arab boycott occurred during the Nixon administration shortly after 
> the Six Day War (I believe in 1973).
> 
> I believe the shortage you are describing was the result of Iranian cut 
> off of supplies following the Islamic revolution in 1978 which was 
> during the Carter administration which I consider by far the worst in 
> modern history.
> 

You're correct.  I shouldn't have been careless on my time line. 
However, it doesn't change my comment that price controls and excess 
profits taxes are counter productive.

> 
> Oh, I do find the possibly of one bright face on the horizon in the 
> persona of Fred Thompson...
> 
> 

Certainly a possibility.  However, I'll need to know more about *actual* 
proposed policies and *accomplishments* than I know now.  His senate 
record was unspectacular.  If he decides to run, you can be sure between 
the media and his opponents we'll learn much more...

Regards...

Tom

tom spillman wrote:

> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> 
>>
>>>  Apparently, they don't remember the Carter administration's results 
>>> during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline 
>>> shortages and long lines at the service stations?
>>>
>>
>> The Arab boycott occurred during the Nixon administration shortly 
>> after the Six Day War (I believe in 1973).
>>
>> I believe the shortage you are describing was the result of Iranian 
>> cut off of supplies following the Islamic revolution in 1978 which was 
>> during the Carter administration which I consider by far the worst in 
>> modern history.
>>
> 
> You're correct.  I shouldn't have been careless on my time line. 
> However, it doesn't change my comment that price controls and excess 
> profits taxes are counter productive.
> 
>>
>> Oh, I do find the possibly of one bright face on the horizon in the 
>> persona of Fred Thompson...
>>
>>
> 
> Certainly a possibility.  However, I'll need to know more about *actual* 
> proposed policies and *accomplishments* than I know now.  His senate 
> record was unspectacular.  If he decides to run, you can be sure between 
> the media and his opponents we'll learn much more...
>


A six year stint in the Senate could not be more than mediocre and you 
might recall his reason for not running for reelection was "boredom."

I don't think that I could last even that long dealing with idiots.

So far, I reflect favorably on every position expressed so far...

JT

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:20:29 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
<Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:

>
>
>tom spillman wrote:
>
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>>>  Apparently, they don't remember the Carter administration's results 
>>>> during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline 
>>>> shortages and long lines at the service stations?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Arab boycott occurred during the Nixon administration shortly 
>>> after the Six Day War (I believe in 1973).
>>>
>>> I believe the shortage you are describing was the result of Iranian 
>>> cut off of supplies following the Islamic revolution in 1978 which was 
>>> during the Carter administration which I consider by far the worst in 
>>> modern history.
>>>
>> 
>> You're correct.  I shouldn't have been careless on my time line. 
>> However, it doesn't change my comment that price controls and excess 
>> profits taxes are counter productive.
>> 
>>>
>>> Oh, I do find the possibly of one bright face on the horizon in the 
>>> persona of Fred Thompson...
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> Certainly a possibility.  However, I'll need to know more about *actual* 
>> proposed policies and *accomplishments* than I know now.  His senate 
>> record was unspectacular.  If he decides to run, you can be sure between 
>> the media and his opponents we'll learn much more...
>>
>
>
>A six year stint in the Senate could not be more than mediocre and you 
>might recall his reason for not running for reelection was "boredom."


Do Obama and Clinton have six years between them? They're both
considered "viable" by the left.

On 2007-06-03 10:29:36 -0400, tom spillman <nospam@austin.rr.com> said:

> Bat T Ball wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating 
>>>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we 
>>>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>>> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>>> exists.  Fuck them.
>> 
>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave the
>> vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting them? Is
>> there anyone actually staying on the dark side and considering the
>> failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?  Damage done to our
>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>> action by the terrorists.  How about actually looking at the
>> candidates this next election and thinking of the republic as a whole
>> and not your own hole as a republic.
> 
> You said:
> 
> 	"Damage done to our
> 	 freedom was far worse than was done physically after the 			 criminal 
> action by the terrorists."
> 
> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO* freedoms, 
> nor do I know *anyone* who has.


You have lost your privacy.


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:29:36 -0600, tom spillman
<nospam@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>Bat T Ball wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating 
>>>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we 
>>>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>>> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>>> exists.  Fuck them.
>> 
>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave the
>> vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting them? Is
>> there anyone actually staying on the dark side and considering the
>> failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?  Damage done to our
>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>> action by the terrorists.  How about actually looking at the
>> candidates this next election and thinking of the republic as a whole
>> and not your own hole as a republic.  
>> 
>
>You said:
>
>	"Damage done to our
>	 freedom was far worse than was done physically after the 			 criminal 
>action by the terrorists."
>
>Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO* freedoms, 
>nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I did before the 
>current administration. After all, I have lived through the 
>administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, 
>Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague generalities will not 
>be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through both WWII and the Korean 
>War where I served.  I was deployed to a combat area longer than Senator 
>Kerry and also earned a few minor decorations, so if you are talking 
>about "rights" for our detainees, you will have to explain why we didn't 
>give equivalent rights to the Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans 
>and Chinese captured in those wars.
>
>Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked carefully at 
>  ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have found *none* 
>that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a number in both 
>parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show little understanding 
>of even Economics 101, much less larger issues of macroeconomics.  They 
>actually seem to assume that price controls and excess profits taxes 
>will *help*.  Apparently, they don't remember the Carter 
>administration's results during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. 
>Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the service stations?
>
>They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and 
>Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same problems 
>of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my wife and I were 
>under either of their systems, we would both likely be dead now.  We 
>both have been successfully treated for cancer starting in 1999 and 2000 
>and we're both still here.  With cancer, prompt treatment is essential.
>
>I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business 
>assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where my 
>wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care and the 
>Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem much too 
>theocratic for my taste.
>
>I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored, and I 
>will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or profanity.
>
>It is your choice.
>
>Regards...
>
>Tom


Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
stupid to know what's going on.

In news:ehs663h1takqro82ecp1q7resshvsje2ta@4ax.com,
Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:29:36 -0600, tom spillman
> <nospam@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Bat T Ball wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in
>>>>>>> place with the Department of Homeland Security to construct
>>>>>>> detention facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been
>>>>>> circulating at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).
>>>>>> Why should we believe this one any more than the dozens that
>>>>>> have come before it?
>>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing
>>>> their faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the
>>>> mortgage, exists.  Fuck them.
>>>
>>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave
>>> the vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting
>>> them? Is there anyone actually staying on the dark side and
>>> considering the failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?
>>> Damage done to our freedom was far worse than was done physically
>>> after the criminal action by the terrorists.  How about actually
>>> looking at the candidates this next election and thinking of the
>>> republic as a whole and not your own hole as a republic.
>>>
>>
>> You said:
>>
>> "Damage done to our
>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>> action by the terrorists."
>>
>> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO*
>> freedoms, nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I
>> did before the current administration. After all, I have lived
>> through the administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ,
>> Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague
>> generalities will not be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through
>> both WWII and the Korean War where I served.  I was deployed to a
>> combat area longer than Senator Kerry and also earned a few minor
>> decorations, so if you are talking about "rights" for our detainees,
>> you will have to explain why we didn't give equivalent rights to the
>> Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans and Chinese captured in
>> those wars.
>>
>> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked
>>  carefully at ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have
>> found *none* that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a
>> number in both parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show
>> little understanding of even Economics 101, much less larger issues
>> of macroeconomics.  They actually seem to assume that price controls
>> and excess profits taxes will *help*.  Apparently, they don't
>> remember the Carter administration's results during the Arab boycott
>> of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the
>> service stations?
>>
>> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and
>> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same
>> problems of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my
>> wife and I were under either of their systems, we would both likely
>> be dead now.  We both have been successfully treated for cancer
>> starting in 1999 and 2000 and we're both still here.  With cancer,
>> prompt treatment is essential.
>>
>> I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business
>> assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where
>> my wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care
>> and the Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem
>> much too theocratic for my taste.
>>
>> I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored, and I
>> will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or
>> profanity.
>>
>> It is your choice.
>>
>> Regards...
>>
>> Tom
>
>
> Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
> stupid to know what's going on.

are you to stupid to enlighten us?
here's your chance to show that you're smarter than a 5th grader and Rosie.
defend your claim of our loss of freedoms.
I'll even start the numbers for ya
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

I figure that 10 is way more than you can come up with, so I'll quit there. 

> 
> 
> Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
> stupid to know what's going on.
> 

Good bye.  Since you obviously don't care, P L O N K!

Regards...

Tom

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 00:24:12 -0500, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:

>In news:ehs663h1takqro82ecp1q7resshvsje2ta@4ax.com,
>Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:29:36 -0600, tom spillman
>> <nospam@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bat T Ball wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in
>>>>>>>> place with the Department of Homeland Security to construct
>>>>>>>> detention facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been
>>>>>>> circulating at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).
>>>>>>> Why should we believe this one any more than the dozens that
>>>>>>> have come before it?
>>>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing
>>>>> their faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the
>>>>> mortgage, exists.  Fuck them.
>>>>
>>>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>>>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave
>>>> the vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting
>>>> them? Is there anyone actually staying on the dark side and
>>>> considering the failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?
>>>> Damage done to our freedom was far worse than was done physically
>>>> after the criminal action by the terrorists.  How about actually
>>>> looking at the candidates this next election and thinking of the
>>>> republic as a whole and not your own hole as a republic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You said:
>>>
>>> "Damage done to our
>>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>>> action by the terrorists."
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO*
>>> freedoms, nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I
>>> did before the current administration. After all, I have lived
>>> through the administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ,
>>> Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague
>>> generalities will not be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through
>>> both WWII and the Korean War where I served.  I was deployed to a
>>> combat area longer than Senator Kerry and also earned a few minor
>>> decorations, so if you are talking about "rights" for our detainees,
>>> you will have to explain why we didn't give equivalent rights to the
>>> Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans and Chinese captured in
>>> those wars.
>>>
>>> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked
>>>  carefully at ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have
>>> found *none* that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a
>>> number in both parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show
>>> little understanding of even Economics 101, much less larger issues
>>> of macroeconomics.  They actually seem to assume that price controls
>>> and excess profits taxes will *help*.  Apparently, they don't
>>> remember the Carter administration's results during the Arab boycott
>>> of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the
>>> service stations?
>>>
>>> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and
>>> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same
>>> problems of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my
>>> wife and I were under either of their systems, we would both likely
>>> be dead now.  We both have been successfully treated for cancer
>>> starting in 1999 and 2000 and we're both still here.  With cancer,
>>> prompt treatment is essential.
>>>
>>> I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business
>>> assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where
>>> my wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care
>>> and the Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem
>>> much too theocratic for my taste.
>>>
>>> I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored, and I
>>> will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or
>>> profanity.
>>>
>>> It is your choice.
>>>
>>> Regards...
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>>
>> Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
>> stupid to know what's going on.
>
>are you to stupid to enlighten us?
>here's your chance to show that you're smarter than a 5th grader and Rosie.
>defend your claim of our loss of freedoms.
>I'll even start the numbers for ya
>1.
>2.
>3.
>4.
>5.
>6.
>7.
>8.
>9.
>10.
>
>I figure that 10 is way more than you can come up with, so I'll quit there. 
>

What are you doing????

Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. 
All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
be valid in their minds...

Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
incapable of doing... 

Mike Smith

On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> 
> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
> be valid in their minds...
> 
> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
> incapable of doing...
> Mike Smith


Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
a way our right to privacy.

From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.

Now tell me there is no such right.

You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
phrase, " I have nothing to hide."

Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
spying on us.

-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On Jun 3, 10:29 am, tom spillman <nos...@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO* freedoms,
> nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I did before the
> current administration. After all, I have lived through the
> administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Ford,
> Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague generalities will not
> be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through both WWII and the Korean
> War where I served.  I was deployed to a combat area longer than Senator
> Kerry and also earned a few minor decorations, so if you are talking
> about "rights" for our detainees, you will have to explain why we didn't
> give equivalent rights to the Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans
> and Chinese captured in those wars.
>
> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked carefully at
>   ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have found *none*
> that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a number in both
> parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show little understanding
> of even Economics 101, much less larger issues of macroeconomics.  They
> actually seem to assume that price controls and excess profits taxes
> will *help*.  Apparently, they don't remember the Carter
> administration's results during the Arab boycott of the 1970's.
> Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the service stations?

Excellent post.  Keep in mind that price controls are hardly exclusive
to Democrats.  Nixon favored price controls on oil, for example.  More
recently, during the 2004 election, Democrats and Republicans were, in
principle, in full agreement that an expansion of Medicare should take
place under a new prescription drug program.  Expanding Medicare to
include a prescription drug program not only represents a vast new
increase in government spending, but, in today's managed care
environment, it is the perfect Trojan Horse for government to impose
price controls on the drug industry

> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and
> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same problems
> of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my wife and I were
> under either of their systems, we would both likely be dead now.  We
> both have been successfully treated for cancer starting in 1999 and 2000
> and we're both still here.  With cancer, prompt treatment is essential.

Glad to see you are doing well, and that you received prompt
treatment.  It's important to note that in Britain and Canada, many
individuals choose private health coverage if they can afford it.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:

>On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>
>> 
>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>> be valid in their minds...
>> 
>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>> incapable of doing...
>> Mike Smith
>
>
>Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>a way our right to privacy.
>
>From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>
>Now tell me there is no such right.
>
>You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>
>Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>spying on us.

You're a fuckin moron, slim.

Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
feds.


Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.

Mike Smith

Je Mon, 04 Jun 2007 10:53:59 -0700, rms1@my-deja.com skribis:

>Excellent post.  Keep in mind that price controls are hardly exclusive
>to Democrats.  Nixon favored price controls on oil, for example.  More

It wasn't just oil.  He imposed wage and price controls on the entire
economy, for example. 

http://www.econreview.com/events/wageprice1971b.htm

I was working in my dad's office for the summer and it covered
everything, even industrial products.  To his credit, he was reluctant
to do it, the first phase was only for 90 days, and the whole thing
was abandoned by early 1974.



-- 
Steven M - spam_no@hal-pc.orgwax.invalid
(remove wax and invalid to reply)

  "I have the heart of a little boy, and I keep it in a
   jar in my desk."  -- speech by Stephen King

Slim wrote:

> 
> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
> a way our right to privacy.
>

When?

>  From monitoring our library book checkouts, 

I have been checking out books from libraries for over sixty years, 
occasionally even on controversial subjects and I have had no indication 
of any such surveillance.  As i understand it, the government has the 
right that has never been used IIRC, to check such records if their is 
sufficient cause.  I also frequent bookstores regularly, so perhaps I 
should be worried <G>

> to tapping our phones and 
> email.

The NSA has been doing such surveillance since its inception in 1952. 
This is hardly a new development.  I had a friend who worked on some of 
the original computer systems involved.  Since it began, they have been 
looking for key phrases, words and the like, to see if more surveillance 
is justified.  Which administration are you going to blame?  DDE was 
President in 1952, IIRC, and there have been a number other presidents 
of both parties since then.
> 
> Now tell me there is no such right.

Where is such a right spelled out?  It is *not* in the constitution.
> 
> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
> 

*I* don't have anything to hide and I have never been bothered by such 
surveillance nor do I know anyone who has been victimized.  How have you 
been harmed?  The NSA has been monitoring communications for more years 
than you have been alive.

> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check out 
> books, and send email and make phone calls without the government spying 
> on us.
>

This is a scary attitude, to me.  I have no problem with the government 
trying to prevent terrorists from succeeding in another 9/11 attack.

Obviously, you feel differently.  That is your right and it is my right 
to oppose political parties and candidates that agree with you.

Regards...

Tom

rms1@my-deja.com wrote:

> 
> Excellent post.  

Thanks for the kind words.

> Keep in mind that price controls are hardly exclusive
> to Democrats.  Nixon favored price controls on oil, for example.  

Price controls were also tried in both WWI and WWII.  Here's some info 
on WWII:

	"The effectiveness of OPA's measures is subject to some debate. While 
OPA pointed to an overall 31-percent rise in retail prices in World War 
II compared to a 62-percent rise in World War I (1914�1918), undoubtedly 
a black market developed in response to price controls. Maintenance of 
product quality was a constant concern. OPA even colorfully noted in its 
Twelfth Quarterly Report "a renaissance of cattle rustlers in the West." 
Reports from OPA's Enforcement Division show that 650,000 investigations 
were conducted for all of 1943, with 280,000 violations found. In 1944, 
a total of 338,029 violations were reported, with 205,779 administrative 
warning letters sent out. Court proceedings were initiated in almost 
29,000 cases."

The preceding is from:

	http://www.answers.com/topic/office-of-price-administration

Price controls almost never are successful, IMNSHO...

> 
> Glad to see you are doing well, and that you received prompt
> treatment.  It's important to note that in Britain and Canada, many
> individuals choose private health coverage if they can afford it.
> 

We knew many in both countries who went to private coverage that way. 
Toronto is right across the lake fro Buffalo, NY.  You can see it from 
the top of the CN tower.  We knew many who needed elective surgery, such 
as a hip replacement, who went to Buffalo for their treatment rather 
than wait many months or, in some cases, years.  Here is an example of 
the *benefits* of the Canadian system:

	http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/660-a

That is too long to wait for treatment, and experiences like that are 
what prompted my remarks.

Regards...

Tom

In news:k73863leicaihbrfp1g2pkb76u2ihbbrdb@4ax.com,
Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 00:24:12 -0500, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:
>
>> In news:ehs663h1takqro82ecp1q7resshvsje2ta@4ax.com,
>> Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
>>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:29:36 -0600, tom spillman
>>> <nospam@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bat T Ball wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in
>>>>>>>>> place with the Department of Homeland Security to construct
>>>>>>>>> detention facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been
>>>>>>>> circulating at least since the early 90's (and probably
>>>>>>>> sooner). Why should we believe this one any more than the
>>>>>>>> dozens that have come before it?
>>>>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>>>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who
>>>>>> get their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve
>>>>>> stuffing their faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or
>>>>>> paying the mortgage, exists.  Fuck them.
>>>>>
>>>>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power
>>>>> to the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you
>>>>> gave the vote of confidence to the current legislature by
>>>>> reelecting them? Is there anyone actually staying on the dark
>>>>> side and considering the failure from NYC as a presidential
>>>>> candidate? Damage done to our freedom was far worse than was done
>>>>> physically after the criminal action by the terrorists.  How
>>>>> about actually looking at the candidates this next election and
>>>>> thinking of the republic as a whole and not your own hole as a
>>>>> republic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You said:
>>>>
>>>> "Damage done to our
>>>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>>>> action by the terrorists."
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO*
>>>> freedoms, nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I
>>>> did before the current administration. After all, I have lived
>>>> through the administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ,
>>>> Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague
>>>> generalities will not be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through
>>>> both WWII and the Korean War where I served.  I was deployed to a
>>>> combat area longer than Senator Kerry and also earned a few minor
>>>> decorations, so if you are talking about "rights" for our
>>>> detainees, you will have to explain why we didn't give equivalent
>>>> rights to the Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans and
>>>> Chinese captured in those wars.
>>>>
>>>> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked
>>>>  carefully at ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I
>>>> have found *none* that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have
>>>> found a number in both parties I would vote AGAINST.  The
>>>> Democrats show little understanding of even Economics 101, much
>>>> less larger issues of macroeconomics.  They actually seem to
>>>> assume that price controls and excess profits taxes will *help*.
>>>> Apparently, they don't remember the Carter administration's
>>>> results during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. Remember the
>>>> gasoline shortages and long lines at the service stations?
>>>>
>>>> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and
>>>> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same
>>>> problems of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my
>>>> wife and I were under either of their systems, we would both likely
>>>> be dead now.  We both have been successfully treated for cancer
>>>> starting in 1999 and 2000 and we're both still here.  With cancer,
>>>> prompt treatment is essential.
>>>>
>>>> I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business
>>>> assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto
>>>> where my wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath
>>>> care and the Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a
>>>> group, seem much too theocratic for my taste.
>>>>
>>>> I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored,
>>>> and I will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or
>>>> profanity.
>>>>
>>>> It is your choice.
>>>>
>>>> Regards...
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
>>> stupid to know what's going on.
>>
>> are you to stupid to enlighten us?
>> here's your chance to show that you're smarter than a 5th grader and
>> Rosie. defend your claim of our loss of freedoms.
>> I'll even start the numbers for ya
>> 1.
>> 2.
>> 3.
>> 4.
>> 5.
>> 6.
>> 7.
>> 8.
>> 9.
>> 10.
>>
>> I figure that 10 is way more than you can come up with, so I'll quit
>> there.
>>
>
> What are you doing????
>
> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
> be valid in their minds...
>
> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
> incapable of doing...
>
> Mike Smith

Gee, I guess he's *not* smarter than a 5th grader, then.<g> 

In news:gcl863tbccjmkitflum7q2r1n526uusike@4ax.com,
Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>
>>>
>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
>>> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>
>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>> incapable of doing...
>>> Mike Smith
>>
>>
>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has
>> taken
>> a way our right to privacy.
>>
>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones
>> and email.
>>
>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>
>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the
>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>
>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check
>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government
>> spying on us.
>
> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>
> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
> feds.
>
>
> Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.
>
> Mike Smith

It was probably 8-9 yrs ago when Clinton started Carnivore. 

IDIOT!
"Mike Smith" <mws@wt.net> wrote in message 
news:k73863leicaihbrfp1g2pkb76u2ihbbrdb@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 00:24:12 -0500, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:
>
>>In news:ehs663h1takqro82ecp1q7resshvsje2ta@4ax.com,
>>Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
>>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:29:36 -0600, tom spillman
>>> <nospam@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bat T Ball wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in
>>>>>>>>> place with the Department of Homeland Security to construct
>>>>>>>>> detention facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been
>>>>>>>> circulating at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).
>>>>>>>> Why should we believe this one any more than the dozens that
>>>>>>>> have come before it?
>>>>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>>>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>>>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing
>>>>>> their faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the
>>>>>> mortgage, exists.  Fuck them.
>>>>>
>>>>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>>>>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave
>>>>> the vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting
>>>>> them? Is there anyone actually staying on the dark side and
>>>>> considering the failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?
>>>>> Damage done to our freedom was far worse than was done physically
>>>>> after the criminal action by the terrorists.  How about actually
>>>>> looking at the candidates this next election and thinking of the
>>>>> republic as a whole and not your own hole as a republic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You said:
>>>>
>>>> "Damage done to our
>>>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>>>> action by the terrorists."
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO*
>>>> freedoms, nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I
>>>> did before the current administration. After all, I have lived
>>>> through the administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ,
>>>> Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague
>>>> generalities will not be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through
>>>> both WWII and the Korean War where I served.  I was deployed to a
>>>> combat area longer than Senator Kerry and also earned a few minor
>>>> decorations, so if you are talking about "rights" for our detainees,
>>>> you will have to explain why we didn't give equivalent rights to the
>>>> Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans and Chinese captured in
>>>> those wars.
>>>>
>>>> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked
>>>>  carefully at ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have
>>>> found *none* that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a
>>>> number in both parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show
>>>> little understanding of even Economics 101, much less larger issues
>>>> of macroeconomics.  They actually seem to assume that price controls
>>>> and excess profits taxes will *help*.  Apparently, they don't
>>>> remember the Carter administration's results during the Arab boycott
>>>> of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the
>>>> service stations?
>>>>
>>>> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and
>>>> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same
>>>> problems of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my
>>>> wife and I were under either of their systems, we would both likely
>>>> be dead now.  We both have been successfully treated for cancer
>>>> starting in 1999 and 2000 and we're both still here.  With cancer,
>>>> prompt treatment is essential.
>>>>
>>>> I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business
>>>> assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where
>>>> my wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care
>>>> and the Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem
>>>> much too theocratic for my taste.
>>>>
>>>> I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored, and I
>>>> will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or
>>>> profanity.
>>>>
>>>> It is your choice.
>>>>
>>>> Regards...
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
>>> stupid to know what's going on.
>>
>>are you to stupid to enlighten us?
>>here's your chance to show that you're smarter than a 5th grader and 
>>Rosie.
>>defend your claim of our loss of freedoms.
>>I'll even start the numbers for ya
>>1.
>>2.
>>3.
>>4.
>>5.
>>6.
>>7.
>>8.
>>9.
>>10.
>>
>>I figure that 10 is way more than you can come up with, so I'll quit 
>>there.
>>
>
> What are you doing????
>
> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
> be valid in their minds...
>
> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
> incapable of doing...
>
> Mike Smith 

bo_dacious@mactan.org wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:20:29 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
> <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>tom spillman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Apparently, they don't remember the Carter administration's results 
>>>>>during the Arab boycott of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline 
>>>>>shortages and long lines at the service stations?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Arab boycott occurred during the Nixon administration shortly 
>>>>after the Six Day War (I believe in 1973).
>>>>
>>>>I believe the shortage you are describing was the result of Iranian 
>>>>cut off of supplies following the Islamic revolution in 1978 which was 
>>>>during the Carter administration which I consider by far the worst in 
>>>>modern history.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You're correct.  I shouldn't have been careless on my time line. 
>>>However, it doesn't change my comment that price controls and excess 
>>>profits taxes are counter productive.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oh, I do find the possibly of one bright face on the horizon in the 
>>>>persona of Fred Thompson...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Certainly a possibility.  However, I'll need to know more about *actual* 
>>>proposed policies and *accomplishments* than I know now.  His senate 
>>>record was unspectacular.  If he decides to run, you can be sure between 
>>>the media and his opponents we'll learn much more...
>>>
>>
>>
>>A six year stint in the Senate could not be more than mediocre and you 
>>might recall his reason for not running for reelection was "boredom."
> 
> 
> 
> Do Obama and Clinton have six years between them? They're both
> considered "viable" by the left.


Sure, they're professional politicians and have practiced little else.

BTW, after Thompson, my choice would be Hillary...

JT

tom spillman wrote:

> Slim wrote:
> 
>>
>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has 
>> taken a way our right to privacy.
>>
> 
> When?
> 
>>  From monitoring our library book checkouts, 
> 
> 
> I have been checking out books from libraries for over sixty years, 
> occasionally even on controversial subjects and I have had no indication 
> of any such surveillance.  As i understand it, the government has the 
> right that has never been used IIRC, to check such records if their is 
> sufficient cause.  I also frequent bookstores regularly, so perhaps I 
> should be worried <G>
> 
>> to tapping our phones and email.
> 
> 
> The NSA has been doing such surveillance since its inception in 1952. 
> This is hardly a new development.  I had a friend who worked on some of 
> the original computer systems involved.  Since it began, they have been 
> looking for key phrases, words and the like, to see if more surveillance 
> is justified.  Which administration are you going to blame?  DDE was 
> President in 1952, IIRC, and there have been a number other presidents 
> of both parties since then.
> 

Er, did you mean HST (Harry S. Truman)?

Eisenhower was elected in '52 but didn't take office until 1/53.




>>
>> Now tell me there is no such right.
> 
> 
> Where is such a right spelled out?  It is *not* in the constitution.
> 
>>
>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>
> 
> *I* don't have anything to hide and I have never been bothered by such 
> surveillance nor do I know anyone who has been victimized.  How have you 
> been harmed?  The NSA has been monitoring communications for more years 
> than you have been alive.
> 
>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>> spying on us.
>>
> 
> This is a scary attitude, to me.  I have no problem with the government 
> trying to prevent terrorists from succeeding in another 9/11 attack.
> 
> Obviously, you feel differently.  That is your right and it is my right 
> to oppose political parties and candidates that agree with you.
> 
> Regards...
> 
> Tom
> 


One should bear in mind that the country has never faced a greater peril 
than is the case currently.

Even with my disdain of the guv'ment, I don't expect the black 
helicopters to bother with the likes of me.

JT

On 2007-06-04 14:12:35 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>> be valid in their minds...
>>> 
>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>> incapable of doing...
>>> Mike Smith
>> 
>> 
>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>> a way our right to privacy.
>> 
>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>> 
>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>> 
>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>> 
>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>> spying on us.
> 
> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
> 
> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
> feds.


When one innocent person has been violated, we all are.



FBI demands library records
Request in Connecticut, allowed by Patriot Act, is first of its kind
Eric Lichtblau, New York Times
Friday, August 26, 2005
(08-26) 04:00 PDT Washington -- The FBI, using its expanded authority 
under the anti-terrorism law known as the Patriot Act, is demanding 
library records from a Connecticut institution as part of an 
intelligence investigation, the American Civil Liberties Union said 
Thursday.
The demand is the first confirmed instance in which the FBI has used 
the law in this way, federal officials and the ACLU said. The 
government's power to demand access to library borrowing records and 
other material showing reading habits has been the single most divisive 
issue in the debate over whether Congress should extend key elements of 
the Patriot Act after this year.
Because of federal secrecy requirements, the ACLU said it was barred 
from disclosing the identity of the institution or other details of the 
FBI's demand, but court papers indicate the target is a library in the 
Bridgeport, Conn., area.
The ACLU, which has been one of the leading critics of the Bush 
administration over the Patriot Act and its anti-terrorism policies, 
brought a lawsuit Aug. 9 in U.S. District Court in Bridgeport on behalf 
of the Connecticut institution.
The ACLU said it would seek an emergency order allowing it to discuss 
details of the case publicly. A hearing has been set for Wednesday in 
federal court in Bridgeport.
In the debate over the future of the Patriot Act, the Bush 
administration has said that it has never used the library provision, 
which falls under section 215, to demand records from libraries or 
booksellers. The ACLU said that in the Connecticut case, the FBI is 
using a separate investigative tool, a type of administrative subpoena 
known as a national security letter, to get records related to library 
patrons, reading materials and Internet use by patrons.
The FBI's power to use national security letters to demand records 
without a judge's approval was expanded under the Patriot Act.
Last year, a federal judge in Manhattan struck down part of the 
subpoena provision as unconstitutional, in part because it allowed for 
no judicial oversight, but the Justice Department is appealing.
Officials at the Justice Department and the FBI refused to comment on 
the issue, because it involves pending litigation.
While the Patriot Act is awaiting final reauthorization by Congress, 
both the Senate and the House moved last month to extend at least 
temporarily the government's power to demand library records in 
terrorism investigations.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/26/MNG4PEDMKC1.DTL
This article appeared on page A - 5 of the San�Francisco�Chronicle



-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-04 15:23:19 -0400, tom spillman <nospam@austin.rr.com> said:

> Slim wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>> 
> 
> *I* don't have anything to hide and I have never been bothered by such 
> surveillance

OK...just remember that the America you fought for is long gone.

"State authority must provide for peace and order, and peace and order 
in turn must conversely make possible the existence of state authority. 
Within these two poles all life must now revolve...Ideas of 'freedom,' 
mostly of a misunderstood nature, inject themselves into the state 
conceptions of these circles." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.

Berlin, Monday, Aug. 20, 1934 -- Eighty-nine and nine-tenths percent of 
the German voters endorsed in yesterday's plebiscite Chancellor 
Hitler's assumption of greater power than has ever been possessed by 
any other ruler in modern times. Nearly 10 per cent indicated their 
disapproval. The result was expected.




-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-04 20:28:34 -0400, Grumpy AuContraire 
<Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> said:
> 
> tom spillman wrote:
> 
>> Slim wrote:
>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> One should bear in mind that the country has never faced a greater 
> peril than is the case currently.
> 
> Even with my disdain of the guv'ment, I don't expect the black 
> helicopters to bother with the likes of me.


" - FREEDOM IS NOT A CONCEPT IN WHICH PEOPLE CAN DO ANYTHING
THEY WANT, BE ANYTHING THEY CAN BE. FREEDOM IS ABOUT AUTHORITY.
FREEDOM IS ABOUT THE WILLINGNESS OF EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING
TO CEDE TO LAWFUL AUTHORITY A GREAT DEAL OF DISCRETION ABOUT
WHAT YOU DO AND HOW YOU DO IT."
- Mayor Giuliani, quoted in the New York Times, March 17, 1994.

"State authority must provide for peace and order, and peace and order 
in turn must conversely make possible the existence of state authority. 
Within these two poles all life must now revolve...Ideas of 'freedom,' 
mostly of a misunderstood nature, inject themselves into the state 
conceptions of these circles." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.

Berlin, Monday, Aug. 20, 1934 -- Eighty-nine and nine-tenths percent of 
the German voters endorsed in yesterday's plebiscite Chancellor 
Hitler's assumption of greater power than has ever been possessed by 
any other ruler in modern times. Nearly 10 per cent indicated their 
disapproval. The result was expected.

-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

Don't bother with them, Slim.  As they call me and others stupid, they
are actually too blind to realize what's been going on.  You can hit
'em in the head with a hammer and they still won't admit what the
government has done.  

Sad, indeed, as I suspect many of these stupid asses proudly served
our country in the armed forces.  You would think that they would have
gotten the grasp of why they were needed to serve, but no, they chose
to remain ignorant rather than advance their minds and philosophy.

Don't forget to wash your "W" bumper sticker, it shows the rest of the
world who you are! 


 On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:

>On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>
>> 
>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>> be valid in their minds...
>> 
>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>> incapable of doing...
>> Mike Smith
>
>
>Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>a way our right to privacy.
>
>From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>
>Now tell me there is no such right.
>
>You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>
>Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>spying on us.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 00:24:12 -0500, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote:

>In news:ehs663h1takqro82ecp1q7resshvsje2ta@4ax.com,
>Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:29:36 -0600, tom spillman
>> <nospam@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bat T Ball wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:27 GMT, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in
>>>>>>>> place with the Department of Homeland Security to construct
>>>>>>>> detention facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been
>>>>>>> circulating at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).
>>>>>>> Why should we believe this one any more than the dozens that
>>>>>>> have come before it?
>>>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing
>>>>> their faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the
>>>>> mortgage, exists.  Fuck them.
>>>>
>>>> And which one of you gave this awesome and unconstitutional power to
>>>> the Feds while jerking your knee after 9-11? Which one of you gave
>>>> the vote of confidence to the current legislature by reelecting
>>>> them? Is there anyone actually staying on the dark side and
>>>> considering the failure from NYC as a presidential candidate?
>>>> Damage done to our freedom was far worse than was done physically
>>>> after the criminal action by the terrorists.  How about actually
>>>> looking at the candidates this next election and thinking of the
>>>> republic as a whole and not your own hole as a republic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You said:
>>>
>>> "Damage done to our
>>> freedom was far worse than was done physically after the criminal
>>> action by the terrorists."
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can enlighten me.  I, personally, have lost *NO*
>>> freedoms, nor do I know *anyone* who has.  I feel as free now, as I
>>> did before the current administration. After all, I have lived
>>> through the administrations of FDR, HST, Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ,
>>> Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II.  Vague
>>> generalities will not be accepted, at least by me.  I lived through
>>> both WWII and the Korean War where I served.  I was deployed to a
>>> combat area longer than Senator Kerry and also earned a few minor
>>> decorations, so if you are talking about "rights" for our detainees,
>>> you will have to explain why we didn't give equivalent rights to the
>>> Germans, Japanese, Italians, North Koreans and Chinese captured in
>>> those wars.
>>>
>>> Likewise, what candidates would you suggest?  I have looked
>>>  carefully at ALL of the candidates in both major parties and I have
>>> found *none* that I would be willing to vote FOR.  I have found a
>>> number in both parties I would vote AGAINST.  The Democrats show
>>> little understanding of even Economics 101, much less larger issues
>>> of macroeconomics.  They actually seem to assume that price controls
>>> and excess profits taxes will *help*.  Apparently, they don't
>>> remember the Carter administration's results during the Arab boycott
>>> of the 1970's. Remember the gasoline shortages and long lines at the
>>> service stations?
>>>
>>> They also have not learned from the mistakes of the British and
>>> Canadians on health care and seem to want to bring those same
>>> problems of rationing of care and long waiting lists here.  If my
>>> wife and I were under either of their systems, we would both likely
>>> be dead now.  We both have been successfully treated for cancer
>>> starting in 1999 and 2000 and we're both still here.  With cancer,
>>> prompt treatment is essential.
>>>
>>> I have lived for an extended period in the UK while on business
>>> assignments and also was a manager on a new project in Toronto where
>>> my wife and I were exposed the the realities of the UK heath care
>>> and the Canadian system. Likewise, the Republicans, as a group, seem
>>> much too theocratic for my taste.
>>>
>>> I will await your enlightenment.  BTW, flaming will be ignored, and I
>>> will listen to reasoned discourse.  I will *plonk* flames or
>>> profanity.
>>>
>>> It is your choice.
>>>
>>> Regards...
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>>
>> Then go ahead and plonk, nitwit.  You're either too blind or too
>> stupid to know what's going on.
>
>are you to stupid to enlighten us?
>here's your chance to show that you're smarter than a 5th grader and Rosie.
>defend your claim of our loss of freedoms.
>I'll even start the numbers for ya
>1.
>2.
>3.
>4.
>5.
>6.
>7.
>8.
>9.
>10.
>
>I figure that 10 is way more than you can come up with, so I'll quit there. 
>

It appears that ONE is WAY more than any of the liberal buffoons are
capable of producing.

Why am I not surprised...

Mike Smith

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

> 
> Er, did you mean HST (Harry S. Truman)?
> 
> Eisenhower was elected in '52 but didn't take office until 1/53.
> 
>

You are correct, of course.  I *remembered* Eisenhower's election in 
1952, but didn't think it through!  I had been discharged from the US 
Navy in the spring of 1952 and was attending the first of a number of 
universities, the University of Missouri.  I was in engineering school 
there at that time.

Regards...

Tom

On 2007-06-05 06:45:51 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 23:56:05 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-04 14:12:35 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>>>>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>> 
>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>>>> 
>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>> 
>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>> 
>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>>>> spying on us.
>>> 
>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>> 
>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>> feds.
>> 
>> 
>> When one innocent person has been violated, we all are.
>> 
> 
> Thanks for letting us know that....
> 
> 
> BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAahahahahaahhaahah
> 
> Way stupid and oh so funny! Just about what I would expect from the
> slim buffoon.


I you asked a question and I answered it with facts.

You then proceed to put your head up your ass.

Typical.


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

Slim wrote:

> On 2007-06-04 15:23:19 -0400, tom spillman <nospam@austin.rr.com> said:
> 
>> Slim wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>
>>
>> *I* don't have anything to hide and I have never been bothered by such 
>> surveillance
> 
> 
> OK...just remember that the America you fought for is long gone.
> 
> "State authority must provide for peace and order, and peace and order 
> in turn must conversely make possible the existence of state authority. 
> Within these two poles all life must now revolve...Ideas of 'freedom,' 
> mostly of a misunderstood nature, inject themselves into the state 
> conceptions of these circles." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.
> 
> Berlin, Monday, Aug. 20, 1934 -- Eighty-nine and nine-tenths percent of 
> the German voters endorsed in yesterday's plebiscite Chancellor Hitler's 
> assumption of greater power than has ever been possessed by any other 
> ruler in modern times. Nearly 10 per cent indicated their disapproval. 
> The result was expected.
> 
> 

Ain't this cause to invoke godwin's law?

JT

On 2007-06-05 11:26:57 -0400, Grumpy AuContraire 
<Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> said:

> 
> 
> Slim wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-04 15:23:19 -0400, tom spillman <nospam@austin.rr.com> said:
>> 
>>> Slim wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> *I* don't have anything to hide and I have never been bothered by such 
>>> surveillance
>> 
>> 
>> OK...just remember that the America you fought for is long gone.
>> 
>> "State authority must provide for peace and order, and peace and order 
>> in turn must conversely make possible the existence of state authority. 
>> Within these two poles all life must now revolve...Ideas of 'freedom,' 
>> mostly of a misunderstood nature, inject themselves into the state 
>> conceptions of these circles." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.
>> 
>> Berlin, Monday, Aug. 20, 1934 -- Eighty-nine and nine-tenths percent of 
>> the German voters endorsed in yesterday's plebiscite Chancellor 
>> Hitler's assumption of greater power than has ever been possessed by 
>> any other ruler in modern times. Nearly 10 per cent indicated their 
>> disapproval. The result was expected.
>> 
>> 
> 
> Ain't this cause to invoke godwin's law?

Go right the fuck ahead. Then claim "I have nothing to hide" and let 
the government take all your freedoms. Its a slippery slope, my friend, 
and Bush and Cheney are Calvin and Hobbes in a box going downhill fast.

Read it and weep, bucko, you and your ilk voted for the assholes in the 
White House who have destroyed a soverign nation, killed hundreds of 
thousands on innocent people, created untold number of martyrs and 
enemies who want us dead...all for a pack of lies, uttered to make a 
few bucks.


"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in 
England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after 
all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it 
is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a 
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist 
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to 
the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL 
THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of 
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY 
COUNTRY."
�
--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-04 18:33:41 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:

> In news:gcl863tbccjmkitflum7q2r1n526uusike@4ax.com,
> Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
>>>> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>> 
>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>> Mike Smith
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has
>>> taken
>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>> 
>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones
>>> and email.
>>> 
>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>> 
>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the
>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>> 
>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check
>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government
>>> spying on us.
>> 
>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>> 
>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>> feds.
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.
>> 
>> Mike Smith
> 
> It was probably 8-9 yrs ago when Clinton started Carnivore.

We beat Germany AND Japan in less time than the Invasion and Occupation 
of Iraq,

In 2003, Bush’s father indicated to him that he disagreed with his 
son’s invasion of Iraq.

Slick got a BJ....Bush destabilized the world.


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>
>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>
>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating
>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we
>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>
>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>
> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
> exists.  Fuck them.

Or maybe it's because these stories don't hold water?  There was supposed 
a "concentration camp" near Lake Okeechobee in the early 90's.  Since I 
was living in Florida at the time I went to check it out.  There was 
nothing there but sugar cane farms.

-- 
John Mayson <john@mayson.us>
Austin, Texas, USA

In news:4665e1cd$0$8947$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
Slim <slim@pickins.com>spewed forth:
> On 2007-06-04 18:33:41 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:
>
>> In news:gcl863tbccjmkitflum7q2r1n526uusike@4ax.com,
>> Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
>>>>> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it
>>>>> to be valid in their minds...
>>>>>
>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has
>>>> taken
>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>
>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones
>>>> and email.
>>>>
>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>
>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the
>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>
>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to
>>>> check out books, and send email and make phone calls without the
>>>> government spying on us.
>>>
>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>
>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>> feds.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.
>>>
>>> Mike Smith
>>
>> It was probably 8-9 yrs ago when Clinton started Carnivore.
>
> We beat Germany AND Japan in less time than the Invasion and
> Occupation of Iraq,
>
> In 2003, Bush's father indicated to him that he disagreed with his
> son's invasion of Iraq.
>
> Slick got a BJ....Bush destabilized the world.

And all these things have exactly what to do with you losing rights?
You can't answer the question so you insert things that have zero to do with 
the discussion.
Please just defend your claims of Bush destroying your rights and not how 
inept he is. 

On 2007-06-05 18:19:54 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:57:51 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-05 06:45:51 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 23:56:05 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-04 14:12:35 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>>>>>>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>>>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>>>>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>>>>>> spying on us.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>>>> feds.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> When one innocent person has been violated, we all are.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for letting us know that....
>>> 
>>> 
>>> BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAahahahahaahhaahah
>>> 
>>> Way stupid and oh so funny! Just about what I would expect from the
>>> slim buffoon.
>> 
>> 
>> I you asked a question and I answered it with facts.
> 
> No you didn't. Go back and re-read my question, moron.
> 
> {Free clue: Get someone that comprehends the English language to
> explain to you what "your" means.}

Oh...so even after if I proved to you that that the government has 
asked to the records of
library books checked out by individuals...its not true because it did 
not happen to me?

Hey Smith....check your meds.


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-05 19:56:30 -0400, Testor Grey <test@testland.net> said:

> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 23:56:05 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-04 14:12:35 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>>>>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>> 
>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>>>> 
>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>> 
>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>> 
>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>>>> spying on us.
>>> 
>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>> 
>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>> feds.
>> 
>> 
>> When one innocent person has been violated, we all are.
> 
> 
> Not really.

Ohhh, Its OK for the government to selectively fuck some people over?

You think its OK for the government to invade the privacy of innocent 
citizens as long as its not you?

Are you one the brianwashed lemmings "with nothing to hide"?

If you are, then you would be very happy living under Stalin, because 
if anyone was found out to have something to hide, they wound up in the 
gulag or dead, if you had nothing to hide, you were allowed to live.


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-05 21:45:45 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:

> On Sat, 2 Jun 2007, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>> 
>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating
>>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we
>>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>> 
>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>> 
>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>> exists.  Fuck them.
> 
> Or maybe it's because these stories don't hold water?  There was 
> supposed a "concentration camp" near Lake Okeechobee in the early 90's. 
>  Since I was living in Florida at the time I went to check it out.  
> There was nothing there but sugar cane farms.

Hey Cowboy, you personally checked how many acres of swamp?

-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-06 02:20:03 -0400, David Agnew <DavidAgnew@nospam.nul> said:

> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:49:55 GMT, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:20:25 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
>> <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bo_dacious@mactan.org wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:20:29 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
>>>> <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> tom spillman wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A six year stint in the Senate could not be more than mediocre and you 
>>>>> might recall his reason for not running for reelection was "boredom."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Do Obama and Clinton have six years between them? They're both
>>>> considered "viable" by the left.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sure, they're professional politicians and have practiced little else.
>>> 
>>> BTW, after Thompson, my choice would be -->Hillary<--...
>>> 
>>> JT
>>> 
>> 
>> Go see your doctor. You have something seriously wrong with your
>> brain. Could be an aneurysm or cancer.
>> 
>> Mike Smith
> 
> It's called "Thinking" and fortunately Mikey's parents gave him the
> cure for that when they had a partial birth abortion done on him by
> sucking out his brain...voila!  Another Republican born.

More like inbreeding. Poor bastard is the product of generations of 
pasty-skinned fascist idealogues who marry first cousins just so they 
don't have to change names!

-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-06 07:42:43 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 18:20:40 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-04 18:33:41 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:
>> 
>>> In news:gcl863tbccjmkitflum7q2r1n526uusike@4ax.com,
>>> Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
>>>>>> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has
>>>>> taken
>>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones
>>>>> and email.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the
>>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check
>>>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government
>>>>> spying on us.
>>>> 
>>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>> 
>>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>>> feds.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike Smith
>>> 
>>> It was probably 8-9 yrs ago when Clinton started Carnivore.
>> 
>> We beat Germany AND Japan in less time than the Invasion and Occupation 
>> of Iraq,
>> 
>> In 2003, Bush�s father indicated to him that he disagreed with his 
>> son�s invasion of Iraq.
>> 
>> Slick got a BJ....Bush destabilized the world.
> 
> Yes folks... Liberals do have this type of myopic world view. It's not 
> their fault. They're stupid.

We are still awaiting your tome as to your views of the Bushites 
misleading of the world, and the slaughter of innocents in Iraq beacuse 
of the invasion.

-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-06 10:22:37 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:

> In news:4665e1cd$0$8947$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
> Slim <slim@pickins.com>spewed forth:
>> On 2007-06-04 18:33:41 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:
>> 
>>> In news:gcl863tbccjmkitflum7q2r1n526uusike@4ax.com,
>>> Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
>>>>>> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it
>>>>>> to be valid in their minds...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has
>>>>> taken
>>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones
>>>>> and email.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the
>>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to
>>>>> check out books, and send email and make phone calls without the
>>>>> government spying on us.
>>>> 
>>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>> 
>>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>>> feds.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike Smith
>>> 
>>> It was probably 8-9 yrs ago when Clinton started Carnivore.
>> 
>> We beat Germany AND Japan in less time than the Invasion and
>> Occupation of Iraq,
>> 
>> In 2003, Bush's father indicated to him that he disagreed with his
>> son's invasion of Iraq.
>> 
>> Slick got a BJ....Bush destabilized the world.
> 
> And all these things have exactly what to do with you losing rights?
> You can't answer the question so you insert things that have zero to do 
> with the discussion.
> Please just defend your claims of Bush destroying your rights and not 
> how inept he is.

The Patriot Acts say it all.

Have you actually READ the documents?

No, you have not. Its easier to follow the jingoistic path of racism 
and hate than to see
what is actually happening to every single American, and the 
implications for our children.

Do you think that the three year olds of today will live in a "safer" 
world when they grow up thanks to Bush?


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-06 19:57:33 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:

> In news:44he6353f0no7rtf4kuu2dondjegfs2aka@4ax.com,
> Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:47:40 GMT, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 04:12:48 GMT, Bat T Ball
>>> <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Don't bother with them, Slim.  As they call me and others stupid,
>>>> they are actually too blind to realize what's been going on.  You
>>>> can hit 'em in the head with a hammer and they still won't admit
>>>> what the government has done.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Like blow up the WTC back on 9-11-01?
>>> 
>>> You morons are hilarious!
>>> 
>>> Mike Smith
>> 
>> Always the ass hole.
> 
> And when you and Slim come up with ACTUAL facts with what the "gvnmt" 
> has done, is doing, or going to do and not just spouting rhetoric that 
> you hear all day in the media. Then maybe someone "might" listen to 
> you. Evidently some of us can still think and deduce better than you 
> and slim, even after being hit with a hammer.


FUCK YOU. DON'T PLAY COY.

FBI demands library records
Request in Connecticut, allowed by Patriot Act, is first of its kind
Eric Lichtblau, New York Times
Friday, August 26, 2005
(08-26) 04:00 PDT Washington -- The FBI, using its expanded authority 
under the anti-terrorism law known as the Patriot Act, is demanding 
library records from a Connecticut institution as part of an 
intelligence investigation, the American Civil Liberties Union said 
Thursday.
The demand is the first confirmed instance in which the FBI has used 
the law in this way, federal officials and the ACLU said. The 
government's power to demand access to library borrowing records and 
other material showing reading habits has been the single most divisive 
issue in the debate over whether Congress should extend key elements of 
the Patriot Act after this year.
Because of federal secrecy requirements, the ACLU said it was barred 
from disclosing the identity of the institution or other details of the 
FBI's demand, but court papers indicate the target is a library in the 
Bridgeport, Conn., area.
The ACLU, which has been one of the leading critics of the Bush 
administration over the Patriot Act and its anti-terrorism policies, 
brought a lawsuit Aug. 9 in U.S. District Court in Bridgeport on behalf 
of the Connecticut institution.
The ACLU said it would seek an emergency order allowing it to discuss 
details of the case publicly. A hearing has been set for Wednesday in 
federal court in Bridgeport.
In the debate over the future of the Patriot Act, the Bush 
administration has said that it has never used the library provision, 
which falls under section 215, to demand records from libraries or 
booksellers. The ACLU said that in the Connecticut case, the FBI is 
using a separate investigative tool, a type of administrative subpoena 
known as a national security letter, to get records related to library 
patrons, reading materials and Internet use by patrons.
The FBI's power to use national security letters to demand records 
without a judge's approval was expanded under the Patriot Act.
Last year, a federal judge in Manhattan struck down part of the 
subpoena provision as unconstitutional, in part because it allowed for 
no judicial oversight, but the Justice Department is appealing.
Officials at the Justice Department and the FBI refused to comment on 
the issue, because it involves pending litigation.
While the Patriot Act is awaiting final reauthorization by Congress, 
both the Senate and the House moved last month to extend at least 
temporarily the government's power to demand library records in 
terrorism investigations.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/26/MNG4PEDMKC1.DTL
This article appeared on page A - 5 of the San�Francisco�Chronicle


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-06 20:00:13 -0400, Rich Corinthian Leather 
<inexplicable@mysterious.net> said:

> Testor Grey wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 23:56:05 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2007-06-04 14:12:35 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>>>>>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>> 
>>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>>>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>>>>> spying on us.
>>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>> 
>>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>>> feds.
>>> 
>>> When one innocent person has been violated, we all are.
>> 
>> 
>> Not really.
> 
> Yes, really. When one person's rights are violated, it sets precedent 
> and the "authorities" think they can do it to everyone else!

Once a single person is fucked over by the governement they "have 
precedent" to do it again.

And if the government has scared you....just remember......

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in 
England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after 
all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it 
is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a 
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist 
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to 
the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL 
THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of 
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY 
COUNTRY."
�
--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials



-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On 2007-06-06 20:11:14 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:00:13 -0500, Rich Corinthian Leather
> <inexplicable@mysterious.net> wrote:
> 
>> Testor Grey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 23:56:05 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-04 14:12:35 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance. All 
>>>>>>> they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it to
>>>>>>> be valid in their minds...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has taken 
>>>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones and email.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the 
>>>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to check 
>>>>>> out books, and send email and make phone calls without the government 
>>>>>> spying on us.
>>>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>>>> feds.
>>>> 
>>>> When one innocent person has been violated, we all are.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Not really.
>> 
>> Yes, really. When one person's rights are violated, it sets precedent 
>> and the "authorities" think they can do it to everyone else!
>> 
>> RCL
> 
> If that feeds your fantasy, then more power to ya, dude... Us normal
> folk will ignore your little delusion.

Never heard of "setting a precedent" for investigation, arrest or prosecution?

You are one delusional fuck.


-- 
"Hate Week is officially celebrated from April 4th to April 10th. The 
events during that time include waxwork displays, military parades, 
speeches and lectures. New slogans are also coined and new songs are 
written. The theme of the Hate Week is called the Hate Song. It is 
mentioned that a unit from the Fiction Department was assigned to make 
atrocity pamphlets (falsified reports of atrocities committed by 
Oceania's enemies against her) designed to stimulate Oceania's populace 
further into enraged frenzy against all enemies. The aggregate effect 
of Hate Week thus is to excite the populace to such a point that they 
"would unquestionably have torn to pieces" if given the opportunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_week
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1

On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:54:27 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:

>On 2007-06-05 21:45:45 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>
>> On Sat, 2 Jun 2007, bl@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 22:29:50 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-01 19:52:47 -0400, John Mayson <john@mayson.us> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, 30 May 2007, Trace wrote:
>>>>>> Houston-based KBR, formerly the engineering and construction
>>>>>> subsidiary of Halliburton Co., has a contingency contract in place
>>>>>> with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention
>>>>>> facilities in the event of a national emergency.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stories are federal detention/concetration camps have been circulating
>>>>> at least since the early 90's (and probably sooner).  Why should we
>>>>> believe this one any more than the dozens that have come before it?
>>>> 
>>>> Because some of the stories are REAL.
>>> 
>>> It's hard to convince the brain dead middle class assholes who get
>>> their news from AM that anything that doesn't involve stuffing their
>>> faces, celebrity gossip, filling up their cars or paying the mortgage,
>>> exists.  Fuck them.
>> 
>> Or maybe it's because these stories don't hold water?  There was 
>> supposed a "concentration camp" near Lake Okeechobee in the early 90's. 
>>  Since I was living in Florida at the time I went to check it out.  
>> There was nothing there but sugar cane farms.
>
>Hey Cowboy, you personally checked how many acres of swamp?

Hey, moron... You actually believe there was a camp by the lake?

{Yes, he is that stupid.}

Mike Smith

In news:46678546$0$9936$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
Slim <slim@pickins.com>spewed forth:
> On 2007-06-06 19:57:33 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:
>
>> In news:44he6353f0no7rtf4kuu2dondjegfs2aka@4ax.com,
>> Bat T Ball <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com>spewed forth:
>>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:47:40 GMT, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 04:12:48 GMT, Bat T Ball
>>>> <ballbat@rangerscantwin.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't bother with them, Slim.  As they call me and others stupid,
>>>>> they are actually too blind to realize what's been going on.  You
>>>>> can hit 'em in the head with a hammer and they still won't admit
>>>>> what the government has done.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Like blow up the WTC back on 9-11-01?
>>>>
>>>> You morons are hilarious!
>>>>
>>>> Mike Smith
>>>
>>> Always the ass hole.
>>
>> And when you and Slim come up with ACTUAL facts with what the "gvnmt"
>> has done, is doing, or going to do and not just spouting rhetoric
>> that you hear all day in the media. Then maybe someone "might"
>> listen to you. Evidently some of us can still think and deduce
>> better than you and slim, even after being hit with a hammer.
>
>
> FUCK YOU. DON'T PLAY COY.
>
> FBI demands library records
> Request in Connecticut, allowed by Patriot Act, is first of its kind
> Eric Lichtblau, New York Times
> Friday, August 26, 2005
> Because of federal secrecy requirements, the ACLU said it was barred
> from disclosing the identity of the institution or other details of
> the FBI's demand, but court papers indicate the target is a library
> in the Bridgeport, Conn., area.
> The ACLU said it would seek an emergency order allowing it to discuss
> details of the case publicly. A hearing has been set for Wednesday in
> federal court in Bridgeport.


Fuck you.
You come up with one case almost a year old with no current info or how the 
ACLU hearing came out.
I'd say you're grasping, especially without more details.
For all we know, it could have been completely justified.
Could've been the reading habits of the fucker they arrested for trying to 
blow up JFK.
How the fuck do you know? You just WANT to believe it's big bad Bush.
There obviously is no follow up story as to the outcome or you would have 
quoted it too.
Search carnivore and get back to me about who fucked your privacy first. You 
also must believe that a democrat would NEVER deny your privacy.
Tell that to all the people Hillary had the FBI investigate.
Sorry, I have to go now, a cloud just hit me in the head and I have to go 
find a shelter.