🚀 go-pugleaf

We are about a week away from being live on a totally new server, so if
you have suggestions, start getting them to me (and Dave) real soon. 
It's easier to configure something if the something isn't live yet. :)

As for NFS mounts and limited access uploading, that's a cool plan by
me.  Only problem I can forsee is abuse of system, etc... but mostly the
AQ2 crowd are pretty cool (well, the ones I play with are), so I doubt
that'd be an issue.

	Paul
	[LSoG]R-Storm

David Blackburn wrote:
> 
> Hi you seem to like to change your maps fairly often.  Would it be a good
> Idea to get a load of unziped maps.  NFS mount the NFS server with the maps
> on then give certain ppl access so they can upload a new map list.  This
> would ensure you always have a new varity of maps and Paul would not have to
> upload maps all the time and reconfig the map list on his own.
> 
> Dave
> 
> TreeFrog <treefrog@REMOVABLE.kenly.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:MPG.11d74738c47bc09d989c39@news.demon.co.uk...
> > Right, 2 things that have pissed me off today.
> >
> > First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the
> > major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last
> > October. What's the fucking score? Is Paul Marshall the only server admin
> > with any imagination in this godforsaken country? BarrysWorld still have
> > RUINS2 in their cycle - a map that was fucking rotten on its release
> > several BASTARD months ago! Never mind subway. It's not too bad in terms
> > of gameplay, if you ignore the shitty lighting and delete the annoying
> > "music" wav files, but come ON! It's been around for aeons! What the hell
> > is wrong with subway99? Is it too much to expect people to download the
> > odd map from time to time? I realise some of the old maps are genuine
> > classics, but the majority are complete fucking dross. Christ.
> >
> > Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of
> > strategy to clan matches, but it has absolutely no bloody place on pick-
> > up servers. Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time,
> > a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna. Well, isn't
> > that just an ass-load of fucking fun. Getting creamed because some poor
> > bastard didn't know that the server had some pointless switch turned on.
> > Alternatively, some lamer takes a dislike to the rest of his team, or
> > "forgets" that FF is on, and tries to shoot through you with his rifle.
> > Loads of fucking entertainment for the whole bloody family. Get a grip,
> > people - it's a nice idea, but in the big bad world it's just a royal
> > pain in the backside.
> >
> > Right, that's me for the moment. Thoughts, anyone?
> >
> > --
> > [Ronin]TreeFrog
> > treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                        ICQ No. 2657698
> > My e-mail address is munged.     Everybody needs a fucking good kicking.

-- 
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++
     Paul Marshall  =B)
     paul@ronin.pass.theplanet.co.uk
     "Because I can't afford to be misread one more time."
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++

Hi you seem to like to change your maps fairly often.  Would it be a good
Idea to get a load of unziped maps.  NFS mount the NFS server with the maps
on then give certain ppl access so they can upload a new map list.  This
would ensure you always have a new varity of maps and Paul would not have to
upload maps all the time and reconfig the map list on his own.

Dave


TreeFrog <treefrog@REMOVABLE.kenly.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.11d74738c47bc09d989c39@news.demon.co.uk...
> Right, 2 things that have pissed me off today.
>
> First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the
> major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last
> October. What's the fucking score? Is Paul Marshall the only server admin
> with any imagination in this godforsaken country? BarrysWorld still have
> RUINS2 in their cycle - a map that was fucking rotten on its release
> several BASTARD months ago! Never mind subway. It's not too bad in terms
> of gameplay, if you ignore the shitty lighting and delete the annoying
> "music" wav files, but come ON! It's been around for aeons! What the hell
> is wrong with subway99? Is it too much to expect people to download the
> odd map from time to time? I realise some of the old maps are genuine
> classics, but the majority are complete fucking dross. Christ.
>
> Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of
> strategy to clan matches, but it has absolutely no bloody place on pick-
> up servers. Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time,
> a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna. Well, isn't
> that just an ass-load of fucking fun. Getting creamed because some poor
> bastard didn't know that the server had some pointless switch turned on.
> Alternatively, some lamer takes a dislike to the rest of his team, or
> "forgets" that FF is on, and tries to shoot through you with his rifle.
> Loads of fucking entertainment for the whole bloody family. Get a grip,
> people - it's a nice idea, but in the big bad world it's just a royal
> pain in the backside.
>
> Right, that's me for the moment. Thoughts, anyone?
>
> --
> [Ronin]TreeFrog
> treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                        ICQ No. 2657698
> My e-mail address is munged.     Everybody needs a fucking good kicking.

> First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the
> major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last
> October. What's the fucking score? Is Paul Marshall the only server admin
> with any imagination in this godforsaken country? BarrysWorld still have
> RUINS2 in their cycle - a map that was fucking rotten on its release
> several BASTARD months ago! Never mind subway. It's not too bad in terms
> of gameplay, if you ignore the shitty lighting and delete the annoying
> "music" wav files, but come ON! It's been around for aeons! What the hell
> is wrong with subway99? Is it too much to expect people to download the
> odd map from time to time? I realise some of the old maps are genuine
> classics, but the majority are complete fucking dross. Christ.

I was getting close to doing another poll to see if people wanted any
new maps up.  I haven't had chance to look over anything new recently,
but I'm getting to know the rotation rather well now, so it's probably
time for a change to spice things up some.  Of course, I could just be
saying that because of this rant, but honestly it's nice to have
variety.

Oh, and thanks TreeFrog. :)

> Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of
> strategy to clan matches, but it has absolutely no bloody place on pick-
> up servers. Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time,
> a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna. Well, isn't
> that just an ass-load of fucking fun. Getting creamed because some poor
> bastard didn't know that the server had some pointless switch turned on.
> Alternatively, some lamer takes a dislike to the rest of his team, or
> "forgets" that FF is on, and tries to shoot through you with his rifle.
> Loads of fucking entertainment for the whole bloody family. Get a grip,
> people - it's a nice idea, but in the big bad world it's just a royal
> pain in the backside.

For the moment, the POL AQ2 TP server isn't running AQ:E, as I get to
grips with it on the DM server.  It's an easy upgrade when I do switch,
but it'll be a couple of days yet, I suspect.



-- 
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++
     Paul Marshall  =B)
     paul@ronin.pass.theplanet.co.uk
     "Because I can't afford to be misread one more time."
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++

TreeFrog sez:

>Right, 2 things that have pissed me off today.
>
>First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the 
>major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last 
>October. What's the fucking score? Is Paul Marshall the only server admin 
>with any imagination in this godforsaken country? BarrysWorld still have 
>RUINS2 in their cycle - a map that was fucking rotten on its release 
>several BASTARD months ago! Never mind subway. It's not too bad in terms 
>of gameplay, if you ignore the shitty lighting and delete the annoying 
>"music" wav files, but come ON! It's been around for aeons! What the hell 
>is wrong with subway99? Is it too much to expect people to download the 
>odd map from time to time? I realise some of the old maps are genuine 
>classics, but the majority are complete fucking dross. Christ.

I agree with this except to say that I *really* hate Subway99, and still
like the original.  Thats the problem - everyone likes different maps!  
The best way to sort it is to either go with whatever the admin wants,
or to discuss and vote on our choices.  
Thing is, we tried a vote in here, and no-one bothered to vote!
You can't win.

>Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of 
>strategy to clan matches, but it has absolutely no bloody place on pick-
>up servers. Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time, 
>a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna. Well, isn't 
>that just an ass-load of fucking fun. Getting creamed because some poor 
>bastard didn't know that the server had some pointless switch turned on. 
>Alternatively, some lamer takes a dislike to the rest of his team, or 
>"forgets" that FF is on, and tries to shoot through you with his rifle. 
>Loads of fucking entertainment for the whole bloody family. Get a grip, 
>people - it's a nice idea, but in the big bad world it's just a royal 
>pain in the backside.

I really like FF, but there are too many childish cretins that spoil it.
Major shame really - we tried vote-kicking one such dickhead last night,
but he must have had two connections, as he kept coming back.

Best to leave FF for clan games, if possible. :(

>Right, that's me for the moment. Thoughts, anyone?

Can you handicap mapvoting?  
The Fury servers are ruined at the moment, because everytime a level
comes on that the majority dislikes (or even just a bigmouthed
minority), we end up with Urban or Urban3.  AGAIN.  Presumably because
everyone can spell 'Urban'.
I mean, OK, Urban is an interesting level, but it comes up every two
minutes - enough is enough!  There *are* another hundred or so levels,
you know.

Please put mapvoting to 75% votes required, admins...


-- 
TragedyTrousers.

[SNIP]
>Right, that's me for the moment. Thoughts, anyone?


Drink less coffee. ;)

--
BladeRider
aka [SPKs]-BladeH-
ICQ: 18561944
www.quake2.com/skinemp

p.s. Good points...funny rant too :)

TreeFrog,

> First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the
> major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last
> October. What's the fucking score? Is Paul Marshall the only server admin
> with any imagination in this godforsaken country? BarrysWorld still have

Two points:

1) I gave up trying out AQ twice because of the unpredictable map rotation.
I expected to download the 2 official map packs and then get on with it as
you do with every other mod I've tried. ....Ooops.

2) If regular map changes are so important, how come there aren't lots of
complaints about q2dmx and q2ctfx? To many people the map is just a
backdrop, they want to learn it and then forget about it so they can
concentrate on playing against the people rather than the environment.
Personally I see your point, which is why I play servers like EasyNet now
and again, but most people seem to be perfectly happy with an endless diet
of q2dm1 (I loathe that map ...along with q2dm7).

> Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of
> strategy to clan matches, but it has absolutely no bloody place on pick-
> up servers.

Personally I think friendly fire is a good idea (based on playing a bit of
CTF) as without it you get really silly random firefights which might just
as well be settled by tossing a coin. However I take you point about
fuckwits.

> Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time,
> a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna.
> Well, isn't  that just an ass-load of fucking fun.

Does it matter? The whole point of Quake (in all it's incarnations) is to:

1) Kill

2) Die

...preferably in that order. The WT always has FF switched on (so to speak)
and it doesn't seem to cause a problem most of the time (and when it does,
it's corrected real fast).

> Alternatively, some lamer takes a dislike to the rest of his team, or
> "forgets" that FF is on, and tries to shoot through you with his rifle.

Fuckwits are highly adaptable creatures ...they will exploit any niche
available to them but you can guarantee they will *always* find a niche. If
this sort of thing is such a problem perhaps AQ needs a function to allow a
team member to be kicked by 75% voting from the rest of the team (or
something like that).

Eryk

In a secret laboratory far, far away, TreeFrog <treefrog@REMOVABLE.kenly
.demon.co.uk> said:

>Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of 
>strategy to clan matches, but it has absolutely no bloody place on pick-
>up servers. Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time, 
>a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna. Well, isn't 
>that just an ass-load of fucking fun. Getting creamed because some poor 
>bastard didn't know that the server had some pointless switch turned on. 
>Alternatively, some lamer takes a dislike to the rest of his team, or 
>"forgets" that FF is on, and tries to shoot through you with his rifle. 
>Loads of fucking entertainment for the whole bloody family. Get a grip, 
>people - it's a nice idea, but in the big bad world it's just a royal 
>pain in the backside.
>
>Right, that's me for the moment. Thoughts, anyone?

I *like* friendly fire. 

What I don't like is people who show up on one of the few FF servers and
start whining about how they want it turned off. There are a
considerable number more non-FF servers than FF, so it shouldn't be too
hard for them to find one they're happy playing on. Learn how to use
Gamespy filters!

Secondly, yes, it's a pig when people get shot by mistake (or by
design), but after you've killed about 3 you automatically die when you
shoot a team-member. In addition to this, there's always the Votekick
command. It is your friend. :)

But enough on FF, on to the maps. One of the things I *don't* like about
the new code is the votemap facility. Why? Because it tends to
degenerate into Urban3/subway/bxtrain2 or similar and just cycle between
them, plus you'll get someone spamming away with "Vote for MAPX" in the
console.

A solution to this might be to not allow going back to a map until all
the others had been played through (kinda like CD shuffle). This would
mean you could still skip the ones you didn't like and play it whatever
order you wanted, but eliminate the "We only know 3 maps" scenario.

YMMV.


Hatchet >:)
-- 
**************************************************************************
*"The graveyard pallor was mandatory, and Gothick hair was by definition *
*black. Bobby knew that the few who couldn't warp their bodies to fit the*
*subcultural template were best avoided; a short Gothick was trouble, a  *
*fat Gothick homicidal."   Count Zero  -  William Gibson                 *
**************************************************************************

In message <929920308.7519.0.nnrp-01.d4e45bc8@news.demon.co.uk>
          "Eryk" <eryk@eryk.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Personally I see your point, which is why I play servers like EasyNet now
> and again, but most people seem to be perfectly happy with an endless diet
> of q2dm1 (I loathe that map ...along with q2dm7).

I loathe q2dm1 on the basis that you spend sooo much time on the bloody
thing playing demon (it's up'n'down with the regularity of a $5 whores
trolleys!) but dm7 is good for a frantic fraggin session.

> > Secondly - friendly fire. Now, I can see this adding an extra element of
> 
> Personally I think friendly fire is a good idea (based on playing a bit of
> CTF) as without it you get really silly random firefights which might just

Totally agree. When you take away FF you also take away half the skill
of the game.

-- 
   |              |            ICQ: 35614336  [FF]Leeloo    Fraggin Forever
   |     -_)  -_) |  _ \  _ \                 [XES]Leeloo   Just For Fun
  ____|\___|\___|_|\___/\___/                 UK}Hellraiser Yank Spankin
... Those of you who believe in telekinesis, raise MY hand!

Glyn,

> I loathe q2dm1 on the basis that you spend sooo much time on the bloody
> thing playing demon (it's up'n'down with the regularity of a $5 whores

CIX is even worse for that IME, though at least you don't get those [RAT]
pillocks crashing the server.

> trolleys!) but dm7 is good for a frantic fraggin session.

With a 240 ping I can't play it with more than about 6 people before it
degenerates into pseudo-random grenade/rocket spamming and with weapstay off
it's completely unplayable except perhaps as 1 vs. 1.

> Totally agree. When you take away FF you also take away half the skill
> of the game.

The two most common complaints I see on CTF are BFG abuse and quad whoring
...FF would stop both at a stroke (or at least make quadded player use a bit
of skill rather than random rocket barrages).

Eeeek ...I'm hi-jacking an AQ thread by talking about CTF!!!! ....Sorry,
I'll shut-up <g>

Eryk

For the map rotation:

Why not make a point of on one day in the week Paul/dave posts a message to
this group.  Say a Friday.  Then anyone hos not happy with the rotation just
adds the map name/names that they want in the reply, nothing else.

Then come Sunday night count all the votes, and add/remove/change or
whatever the maps for the following week.

If people dont reply and put in the opinion then hard shit, they miss out
dont they, and shouldnt really complain about the map.

Its nice I think to have the odd classic map in the list too though, and
changing the maps too often will make it harder for new players to get good
at it.

Personally I love the fact that Jungle 1 and Cracked have been up for so
long, and also Lighthouse.  They are probably my 3 fav maps, as well as Cov
City etc.  But then I dont really mind.

At the end of the day Quake isnt about 1: Kill and 2: Die, as mentioned
above, thats just what tends to happen in the game.  Surely the real thing
that we all enjoy about it is that its FUN.  Even when someone kills you,
its a laugh, it just makes you go after them. lol.

So, why not all calm down, take a pill or something.  Lets sort out a way of
changing the rotation everynow and then, maybe every 2 weeks or something,
this would give new players a chance to learn the maps, and not just be
cannon fodder for the rest of us, established players, and also give some
variety for people who are getting bored.

Also, how about rather than completely changing it, just a a couple of new
ones, and remove a couple of older ones, then the WHOLE rotation isnt
changed too drastically!

Just my opinion anyway!  Feel free to call me a twat etc as I'm sure you all
will! lol

--
Respectfully

[MrE]Robbie Boy

[MrE]Robbie Boy rdm@rdm-computers.freeserve.co.uk wrote in
<7klmsf$i2m$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>: 

>For the map rotation:
>
>Why not make a point of on one day in the week Paul/dave posts a message
>to this group.  Say a Friday.  Then anyone hos not happy with the
>rotation just adds the map name/names that they want in the reply,
>nothing else. 

sounds pretty good idea - Paul gets veto anyways and I trust his
judgement. 

>Its nice I think to have the odd classic map in the list too though, and
>changing the maps too often will make it harder for new players to get
>good at it.
Good point

>Personally I love the fact that Jungle 1 and Cracked have been up for so
>long, 

Oh god I looooove Cracked. I liked it from my first play but ever since I
pulled a blinder about a mointh back where i got the sniper rifle and got
on the roof and just *slaughtered* every one. It was sooo good I was
making instictive 'turn and shoot' shots over the edge of the building
and cleaned out the level (with about 8 people on it) soo fast. This
happens very rarely to me so I loved this. Cracked can stay on DM as long
as you want. 

Sorry had to get that off my chest.

-- 
Matt Hope "come get some!"

Good point, well made it is too. :) But also complaining about BarrysWorld
which is run in its spare time doesn't really add up to much.
-- 
Delboy

TreeFrog <treefrog@REMOVABLE.kenly.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<MPG.11d74738c47bc09d989c39@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Right, 2 things that have pissed me off today.
> 
> First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the 
> major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last

>

>We are about a week away from being live on a totally new server, so if
>you have suggestions, start getting them to me (and Dave) real soon.
>It's easier to configure something if the something isn't live yet. :)


Hehehe, so whats it going up as? Teamplay? Could it possibly be Capture the
Breifcase??? OoOh please put that on :-)

>As for NFS mounts and limited access uploading, that's a cool plan by
>me.  Only problem I can forsee is abuse of system, etc... but mostly the
>AQ2 crowd are pretty cool (well, the ones I play with are), so I doubt
>that'd be an issue.


Yeah, it does seem like a good idea,  though as you say it would need
careful thought as to who gets access....

>2) If regular map changes are so important, how come there aren't lots of
>complaints about q2dmx and q2ctfx? To many people the map is just a
>backdrop, they want to learn it and then forget about it so they can
>concentrate on playing against the people rather than the environment.
>Personally I see your point, which is why I play servers like EasyNet now
>and again, but most people seem to be perfectly happy with an endless diet
>of q2dm1 (I loathe that map ...along with q2dm7).


I think it's because with AQ2 the maps play a HUGE role in the style of game
that is played, some maps encourage sniping some more mad styles of play.
Thats the thing with AQ2 play is dependant on map really, so new maps every
so often is SOOO much nicer

Hatchet sez:

>I *like* friendly fire. 

I like it in theory.

>What I don't like is people who show up on one of the few FF servers and
>start whining about how they want it turned off. There are a
>considerable number more non-FF servers than FF, so it shouldn't be too
>hard for them to find one they're happy playing on. Learn how to use
>Gamespy filters!

That is irritating, but I find the following more irritating: some idiot
comes onto a server, and shoots as many of his own team as he can.  He
keeps on doing it until the players vote to kick him, by which time
several rounds have been completely ruined.  Two mins after being kicked
he comes back and starts again with the same shit, but under a different
name to confuse people.  Kicked again, but more games ruined.
The same person continues doing this for several hours, making normal
play impossible.
Thats what happened last night, and it totally ended all sensible play,
with most players panicking whenever they saw a teammate.
Thats why I would prefer not to play FF.

>Secondly, yes, it's a pig when people get shot by mistake (or by
>design), but after you've killed about 3 you automatically die when you
>shoot a team-member. In addition to this, there's always the Votekick
>command. It is your friend. :)
>
>But enough on FF, on to the maps. One of the things I *don't* like about
>the new code is the votemap facility. Why? Because it tends to
>degenerate into Urban3/subway/bxtrain2 or similar and just cycle between
>them, plus you'll get someone spamming away with "Vote for MAPX" in the
>console.

Totally agree. Usually I put them on my ignore list for a few mins and
they get the message.  Still, I'm fed up of missing a good map because
some twat decides its not as good as ActCity2 (FFS!) and won't shut up
till everyone votes for it.

>A solution to this might be to not allow going back to a map until all
>the others had been played through (kinda like CD shuffle). This would
>mean you could still skip the ones you didn't like and play it whatever
>order you wanted, but eliminate the "We only know 3 maps" scenario.

Just put the vote requirement to 80-100%.  And make sure there are no
reallly unbalanced maps like ActCity3 on the list.


-- 
TragedyTrousers.

In article <7km1ja$p7f$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Rabid declared...
> >We are about a week away from being live on a totally new server, so if
> >you have suggestions, start getting them to me (and Dave) real soon.
> >It's easier to configure something if the something isn't live yet. :)
> 
> 
> Hehehe, so whats it going up as? Teamplay? Could it possibly be Capture the
> Breifcase??? OoOh please put that on :-)

I'd forgotten about that until half an hour ago. I'm still well up for a 
bit of CTB. No servers in the UK yet, remember...

:)
-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

In article <7kjn1g$drm$1@lure.pipex.net>, BladeRider declared...
> TreeFrog said:
> [SNIP]
> >Right, that's me for the moment. Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> 
> Drink less coffee. ;)

Believe it or not, I never touch the stuff - I just happened to be 
extremely pissed off yesterday, as some poor bastards who ran into me on 
the servers can testify.

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

In article <LgUavPAUOYb3Ew$x@outrider.demon.co.uk>, Hatchet declared...

> Secondly, yes, it's a pig when people get shot by mistake (or by
> design), but after you've killed about 3 you automatically die when you
> shoot a team-member. In addition to this, there's always the Votekick
> command. It is your friend. :)

My main point concerning this dealt with the problem of new people 
connecting and *accidentally* putting several rounds through your head 
before they realise what's going on. The consistent lamers are much fewer 
in number than those caught unawares. Kicking _them_ isn't really fair.

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

In article <01bebc01$9d4e5be0$5ca414ac@pc-220120.scot.bbc.co.uk>, Delboy 
declared...
> Good point, well made it is too. :) But also complaining about BarrysWorld
> which is run in its spare time doesn't really add up to much.

If no-one complains, the people running it think everything is fine and 
dandy and don't alter anything. We need to bitch and whine every now and 
then to effect positive change. That's how people got Zoid to release 3 
more CTF maps, remember.

They were shite, but that's another matter.

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

In article <7klmsf$i2m$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, [MrE]Robbie Boy 
declared...
> For the map rotation:
> 
> Why not make a point of on one day in the week Paul/dave posts a message to
> this group.  Say a Friday.  Then anyone hos not happy with the rotation just
> adds the map name/names that they want in the reply, nothing else.

<snip a bit>
 
> Also, how about rather than completely changing it, just a a couple of new
> ones, and remove a couple of older ones, then the WHOLE rotation isnt
> changed too drastically!

Probably the most sensible reply I've read. I think this is a very good 
idea indeed, and negates the need for in-game map voting. What do you 
think, Mr. Marshall?

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

In article <929920308.7519.0.nnrp-01.d4e45bc8@news.demon.co.uk>, Eryk 
declared...
> TreeFrog,
> 
> > First one is map cycles. We're halfway through the year and most of the
> > major servers are STILL running the same cycles they have been since last
> > October. What's the fucking score? Is Paul Marshall the only server admin
> > with any imagination in this godforsaken country? BarrysWorld still have
> 
> Two points:
> 
> 1) I gave up trying out AQ twice because of the unpredictable map rotation.
> I expected to download the 2 official map packs and then get on with it as
> you do with every other mod I've tried. ....Ooops.

Yes, we're all aware of the extra download requirements of AQ. It's an 
argument for consistent maps, but not a very strong one IMO.

> 2) If regular map changes are so important, how come there aren't lots of
> complaints about q2dmx and q2ctfx?

Two possibilities.
1) The q2dmx and q2ctfx maps are generally of higher quality, therefore 
   there's bound to be less bitching.

I think this one is unarguable - AQ maps still aren't a patch on the 
better id-created CTF ones. Apart from Q2CTF5, which is shit :)

2) Perhaps the people who got tired of them just fucked off to a 
   different mod.

I know I did. Playing the same 5 CTF maps all the time pissed me 
off, and the extra 3 were poor quality, so I gave it up. There are many 
excellent third-party CTF maps out there, and it saddened me that so few 
server admins had the balls to give them a shot.

> Personally I see your point, which is why I play servers like EasyNet now
> and again, but most people seem to be perfectly happy with an endless diet
> of q2dm1 (I loathe that map ...along with q2dm7).

Good luck to them. It would bore me shitless.

> > Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time,
> > a couple of their shots go wild and it's Goodnight Vienna.
> > Well, isn't  that just an ass-load of fucking fun.
> 
> Does it matter? The whole point of Quake (in all it's incarnations) is to:
> 
> 1) Kill
> 
> 2) Die
> 
> ...preferably in that order.

You've never spent 5 minutes as an AQ teamplay spectator waiting for the 
next round to start, then. It alters your viewpoint, drastically.

> The WT always has FF switched on (so to speak)
> and it doesn't seem to cause a problem most of the time (and when it does,
> it's corrected real fast).

One shot in AQ TP doesn't just put a dent in your armour - it either 
cripples you, forcing you to hide and bandage, or just outright kills you 
until the next round starts. The comparison with vanilla DM is inaccurate 
and misleading.

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

In a secret laboratory far, far away, [LSoG]TragedyTrousers <erik@kmount
.NOSPAMTODAY.globalnet.co.uk> said:

>>I *like* friendly fire. 
>
>I like it in theory.

Of course as the saying goes, there's no such thing as "friendly" fire.

>That is irritating, but I find the following more irritating: some idiot
>comes onto a server, and shoots as many of his own team as he can.  He
>keeps on doing it until the players vote to kick him, by which time
>several rounds have been completely ruined.  Two mins after being kicked
>he comes back and starts again with the same shit, but under a different
>name to confuse people.  Kicked again, but more games ruined.
>The same person continues doing this for several hours, making normal
>play impossible.

Always a pain. The trouble is, the best code in the world isn't going to
remove llamas from the game, not unless they start doing force feedback
mice that are wired to the mains anyway...

(Llama found beaten to death by own mouse, film at 11)

>Thats what happened last night, and it totally ended all sensible play,
>with most players panicking whenever they saw a teammate.

Actually, most of my games are like that. I should really get round to
memorising what team I'm on.

>Thats why I would prefer not to play FF.

Fair enough, but you have that option when your looking for somewhere to
play. Admittedly, it cuts down your choice of servers slightly, but not
by very much. 

>Just put the vote requirement to 80-100%.  And make sure there are no
>reallly unbalanced maps like ActCity3 on the list.

There are ways around this of course, assuming you're that bored you
could always make multiple connections until you had enough people to
vote in your favour, but I think this might be taking things a little
bit far. :)

On a completely unrelated note, anyone played about with Roger Wilco? I
got everything working after a while, but don't have any addresses.
Anyone want to set up an AQ2 base station, and does anyone have any
experience of how it impacts on bandwidth/gameplay?


Hatchet >:)
-- 
**************************************************************************
*"The graveyard pallor was mandatory, and Gothick hair was by definition *
*black. Bobby knew that the few who couldn't warp their bodies to fit the*
*subcultural template were best avoided; a short Gothick was trouble, a  *
*fat Gothick homicidal."   Count Zero  -  William Gibson                 *
**************************************************************************

TreeFrog,

> Yes, we're all aware of the extra download requirements of AQ. It's an
> argument for consistent maps, but not a very strong one IMO.

If you want to maintain the loyalty of the current AQ devotees then I agree
it's pretty much a non-issue however if you want to increase the popularity
of the mod (and hence the number of servers/opponents) then it becomes more
significant.

> Two possibilities.
> 1) The q2dmx and q2ctfx maps are generally of higher quality, therefore
>    there's bound to be less bitching.
> I think this one is unarguable - AQ maps still aren't a patch on the
> better id-created CTF ones. Apart from Q2CTF5, which is shit :)

So the issue isn't really one of map rotation but of dodgy quality? If so,
the map authors are the ones to target, not the server admins.

> 2) Perhaps the people who got tired of them just fucked off to a
>    different mod.
> I know I did. Playing the same 5 CTF maps all the time pissed me
> off, and the extra 3 were poor quality, so I gave it up. There are many
> excellent third-party CTF maps out there, and it saddened me that so few
> server admins had the balls to give them a shot.

OK, we agree to differ. *Sometimes* I like to try a new map but the vast
majority of the time I just get pissed off when I find myself in a 'blaster
vs. RL' (or AQ equivalent) situation just because my opponent knows where
the goodies are and I don't.

> > > Every time someone signs on to your team for the first time,
> > Does it matter? The whole point of Quake (in all it's incarnations) is
to:
> > 1) Kill
> > 2) Die
> You've never spent 5 minutes as an AQ teamplay spectator waiting for the
> next round to start, then. It alters your viewpoint, drastically.

Sure I have ....that's about all I *did* do when playing AQ! How the hell am
I supposed to get myself another drink if I'm alive all the time!!

> One shot in AQ TP doesn't just put a dent in your armour - it either
> cripples you, forcing you to hide and bandage, or just outright kills you
> until the next round starts.

Kevlar? IAC, 'one shot' in vanilla DM can seal your fate just as reliably.

> The comparison with vanilla DM is inaccurate
> and misleading.

The point I was to make is that if you can't have fun in Q2 just because you
die frequently then perhaps another game would be more appropriate. But then
it's probably easier to be relaxed about such things when you're as crap as
I am <g>.

Eryk

>> Hehehe, so whats it going up as? Teamplay? Could it possibly be Capture
the
>> Breifcase??? OoOh please put that on :-)

>I'd forgotten about that until half an hour ago. I'm still well up for a
>bit of CTB. No servers in the UK yet, remember...


YET being the operative word here :-)

TreeFrog wrote:
> 
> In article <7klmsf$i2m$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, [MrE]Robbie Boy
> declared...
> > For the map rotation:
> >
> > Why not make a point of on one day in the week Paul/dave posts a message to
> > this group.  Say a Friday.  Then anyone hos not happy with the rotation just
> > adds the map name/names that they want in the reply, nothing else.
> 
> <snip a bit>
> 
> > Also, how about rather than completely changing it, just a a couple of new
> > ones, and remove a couple of older ones, then the WHOLE rotation isnt
> > changed too drastically!
> 
> Probably the most sensible reply I've read. I think this is a very good
> idea indeed, and negates the need for in-game map voting. What do you
> think, Mr. Marshall?

After the original change a little while ago to switch to a
player-oriented map choice rather than an admin-oriented map choice,
I've not had any particular intention of doing a complete map switch. 
Partly due to the time involved (I -always- pre-play a map before
putting it up to the server, even if only by walking it through myself)
and partly because we're -really- low on disk space atm.

I like the idea of adding maps in, even individually, and I hope to make
that more of a reality now with having a dedicated server (IP and domain
name were sorted today - not up yet though as I'm considering options to
do with server power (I might be able to donate stuff to the server, and
we are looking at providing it with at least another 32MB of RAM)). 
That's kinda what's been happening already, a while back.  It all comes
down to my time, obviously, and I think that's what Dave was coming at
from a different post here about NFS mounts and limited access map list
uploads for "trusted" peoples.

I like the idea.  Please can someone find me the time to execute it!? 
I'm going to be up in 3 and a half hours to go into work to do some
maintenance work, for instance...

	Paul
	[LSoG]R-Storm

-- 
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++
     Paul Marshall  =B)
     paul@ronin.pass.theplanet.co.uk
     "Because I can't afford to be misread one more time."
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++

TreeFrog sez:

>In article <01bebc01$9d4e5be0$5ca414ac@pc-220120.scot.bbc.co.uk>, Delboy 
>declared...
>> Good point, well made it is too. :) But also complaining about BarrysWorld
>> which is run in its spare time doesn't really add up to much.
>
>If no-one complains, the people running it think everything is fine and 
>dandy and don't alter anything. We need to bitch and whine every now and 
>then to effect positive change. That's how people got Zoid to release 3 
>more CTF maps, remember.
>
>They were shite, but that's another matter.

Besides, who do you know around here that actually gets *paid* for doing
a Q2 server?

My main complaint with Barrys is the player limit of 16-14 on their
servers, which is too high for HPWs.


-- 
TragedyTrousers.

Hatchet sez:

>In a secret laboratory far, far away, [LSoG]TragedyTrousers <erik@kmount
>.NOSPAMTODAY.globalnet.co.uk> said:
>
>>>I *like* friendly fire. 
>>
>>I like it in theory.
>
>Of course as the saying goes, there's no such thing as "friendly" fire.

It comes from the same bloke who thought of  'collateral damage', I
think.  :)

>>That is irritating, but I find the following more irritating: some idiot
>>comes onto a server, and shoots as many of his own team as he can.  He
>>keeps on doing it until the players vote to kick him, by which time
>>several rounds have been completely ruined.  Two mins after being kicked
>>he comes back and starts again with the same shit, but under a different
>>name to confuse people.  Kicked again, but more games ruined.
>>The same person continues doing this for several hours, making normal
>>play impossible.
>
>Always a pain. The trouble is, the best code in the world isn't going to
>remove llamas from the game, not unless they start doing force feedback
>mice that are wired to the mains anyway...

If it was just 'a pain' that would be fair enough.  Its not, though.
Its a game ruiner.  The best code in the world may not remove llamas
from the game, but it sure doesn't give them loaded weapons and point
them at the nearest nursery...

>(Llama found beaten to death by own mouse, film at 11)
>
>>Thats what happened last night, and it totally ended all sensible play,
>>with most players panicking whenever they saw a teammate.
>
>Actually, most of my games are like that. I should really get round to
>memorising what team I'm on.

Well in that case, you're the problem! :)

>>Thats why I would prefer not to play FF.
>
>Fair enough, but you have that option when your looking for somewhere to
>play. Admittedly, it cuts down your choice of servers slightly, but not
>by very much. 

But every public server that has FF on will be a server spoiled.  It
really can screw up the game, and there's nothing you can do.  
In a perfect world, without llamas and 'gee, I'll just test if FF is on'
morons, FF would be great.  
Very often, it doesn't work on the net though, where cretin to computer
ratio is close to  1:1 at times. :)))
I have to admit, I liked it at first, but far far far too many games
just decend into a farce with it on.

>>Just put the vote requirement to 80-100%.  And make sure there are no
>>reallly unbalanced maps like ActCity3 on the list.
>
>There are ways around this of course, assuming you're that bored you
>could always make multiple connections until you had enough people to
>vote in your favour, but I think this might be taking things a little
>bit far. :)

There's a *very* good reason why mapvoting should be off.
(I'll email Paul 'bout it when he's next got a moment).

>On a completely unrelated note, anyone played about with Roger Wilco? I
>got everything working after a while, but don't have any addresses.
>Anyone want to set up an AQ2 base station, and does anyone have any
>experience of how it impacts on bandwidth/gameplay?

Not me.  I need all the bandwidth I've got as it is!  :)


-- 
TragedyTrousers.

Hatchet Hatchet@outrider.demon.cute.uk wrote in 
<SDPsXFA5Vrb3Ewu1@outrider.demon.co.uk>:


>On a completely unrelated note, anyone played about with Roger Wilco? I
>got everything working after a while, but don't have any addresses.
>Anyone want to set up an AQ2 base station, and does anyone have any
>experience of how it impacts on bandwidth/gameplay?

I setup a RW server a while back on my JANet connection, it worked like a 
dream and I couldn't detect any slowdown due to connection or CPU hit.

I'd be happy to host it again but I leave Uni for the hols in 5 days time

next (academic) year? shouldn't be too much trouble - unless they start 
charging on a per Megabyte basis :(

-- 
Matt Hope "<click>you ^&"&$@~ I'm gonna kill you <click> seems to be quite 
popular :)"

Thanks for the kindly worded reply.  Most people think my ideas are crap!

lol

thanks again

--
Respectfully

[MrE]Robbie Boy

Shuggy wrote:
> 
> Hatchet Hatchet@outrider.demon.cute.uk wrote in
> <SDPsXFA5Vrb3Ewu1@outrider.demon.co.uk>:
> 
> >On a completely unrelated note, anyone played about with Roger Wilco? I
> >got everything working after a while, but don't have any addresses.
> >Anyone want to set up an AQ2 base station, and does anyone have any
> >experience of how it impacts on bandwidth/gameplay?
> 
> I setup a RW server a while back on my JANet connection, it worked like a
> dream and I couldn't detect any slowdown due to connection or CPU hit.
> 
> I'd be happy to host it again but I leave Uni for the hols in 5 days time
> 
> next (academic) year? shouldn't be too much trouble - unless they start
> charging on a per Megabyte basis :(
> 
> --
> Matt Hope "<click>you ^&"&$@~ I'm gonna kill you <click> seems to be quite
> popular :)"

While we're talking about hosting RW, I wonder if I could find space for
it somewhere...?

	Paul
	[LSoG]R-Storm

-- 
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++
     Paul Marshall  =B)
     paul@ronin.pass.theplanet.co.uk
     "Because I can't afford to be misread one more time."
  ++ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ++

In article <930002975.11646.0.nnrp-11.d4e45bc8@news.demon.co.uk>, Eryk 
declared...
> TreeFrog,
> 
> > Yes, we're all aware of the extra download requirements of AQ. It's an
> > argument for consistent maps, but not a very strong one IMO.
> 
> If you want to maintain the loyalty of the current AQ devotees then I agree
> it's pretty much a non-issue however if you want to increase the popularity
> of the mod (and hence the number of servers/opponents) then it becomes more
> significant.

Consider it a dedication test, then - those who are seriously interested 
will make the extra effort to find maps. And will be rewarded for it, as 
far as I'm concerned.

> > Two possibilities.
> > 1) The q2dmx and q2ctfx maps are generally of higher quality, therefore
> >    there's bound to be less bitching.
> > I think this one is unarguable - AQ maps still aren't a patch on the
> > better id-created CTF ones. Apart from Q2CTF5, which is shit :)
> 
> So the issue isn't really one of map rotation but of dodgy quality? If so,
> the map authors are the ones to target, not the server admins.

No, it's a side-issue. Relevant, but not my main concern.

> > 2) Perhaps the people who got tired of them just fucked off to a
> >    different mod.
> > I know I did. Playing the same 5 CTF maps all the time pissed me
> > off, and the extra 3 were poor quality, so I gave it up. There are many
> > excellent third-party CTF maps out there, and it saddened me that so few
> > server admins had the balls to give them a shot.
> 
> OK, we agree to differ. *Sometimes* I like to try a new map but the vast
> majority of the time I just get pissed off when I find myself in a 'blaster
> vs. RL' (or AQ equivalent) situation just because my opponent knows where
> the goodies are and I don't.

There is no AQ equivalent. The default weapon is _more_ lethal in many 
situations than some of the special ones.

> > One shot in AQ TP doesn't just put a dent in your armour - it either
> > cripples you, forcing you to hide and bandage, or just outright kills you
> > until the next round starts.
> 
> Kevlar? IAC, 'one shot' in vanilla DM can seal your fate just as reliably.

The availability of kevlar is a lot more limited than armour in vanilla. 
I.E. there's only one vest to go round.
Death in vanilla does not entail a wait of several minutes for the next 
round.

> > The comparison with vanilla DM is inaccurate
> > and misleading.
> 
> The point I was to make is that if you can't have fun in Q2 just because you
> die frequently then perhaps another game would be more appropriate.

I have no problem with death in general. However, I have a problem with 
getting wasted by people I'm supposed to trust.

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

Paul Marshall paul@ronin.pass.theplanet.co.uk wrote in 
<376FC085.44FD1883@ronin.pass.theplanet.co.uk>:

>

>While we're talking about hosting RW, I wonder if I could find space for
>it somewhere...?

Oh yeah...

sounds good
-- 
Matt Hope "pretty please? with a grenade on top"

In article <3771d5c1.4606123@read.news.global.net.uk>, 
[LSoG]TragedyTrousers declared...

> My main complaint with Barrys is the player limit of 16-14 on their
> servers, which is too high for HPWs.

Too high for HPWs? It's too bloody high for a decent game. 7-a-side on 
actcity2? Bollocks to that.

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

> [LSoG]TragedyTrousers declared...
> 
> > My main complaint with Barrys is the player limit of 16-14 on their
> > servers, which is too high for HPWs.

TreeFrog wrote:
 
> Too high for HPWs? It's too bloody high for a decent game. 7-a-side on
> actcity2? Bollocks to that.

//smudge boot polish over face

aaaamen! to that sister, no erm, brother! haleujah!

:)

-- 

                                                  alex yates - (bobbins)
                                    http://www.bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk
                                 mailto:alexUK@bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk

In article <3770CB42.8DCAE4F3@bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk>, Alex Yates 
declared...
> > [LSoG]TragedyTrousers declared...
> > 
> > > My main complaint with Barrys is the player limit of 16-14 on their
> > > servers, which is too high for HPWs.
> 
> TreeFrog wrote:
>  
> > Too high for HPWs? It's too bloody high for a decent game. 7-a-side on
> > actcity2? Bollocks to that.
> 
> //smudge boot polish over face
> 
> aaaamen! to that sister, no erm, brother! haleujah!

I was wondering where you'd got to. What happened to that map you 
promised us? "Washing", wasn't it?

-- 
[Ronin]TreeFrog
treefrog@REMOVE.kenly.demon.co.uk                      ICQ No. 2657698
My e-mail address is munged.                   Everybody needs an MP5.

<snip>
> 
> I was wondering where you'd got to. What happened to that map you
> promised us? "Washing", wasn't it?
> 
> --
> [Ronin]TreeFrog

--
oh pap, that map again.
it has been at the mapdepot for several eons now.. the first time i
checked the matrix testing thingy-ma-bob it had passed all the
criteria..
weeks later i checked back again and it had magically been changed to a
fail :/

//dodgy gits

that's the last time i take the piss outta them.. possibly.

anyways i've got a new map out! yipee i hear you cry ( tears of joy or
pain? )
it's been submitted to the mapdepot, and the mapzone.
no idea, when it'll be 'official', it seems that you have to be called
gerbil or rusk prick to actually get a map released anymore.. 

//bows head..

here's a direct link if anyone's interested..

http://www.bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk/aq2/maps/tube/tube.zip

my sister said it had nice colours.. thumbs up from her then :P
-- 

                                                  alex yates - (bobbins)
                                    http://www.bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk
                                 mailto:alexUK@bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk

As an ex-map tested, I can humbly say that I did like your Washing map.

I'm just downloading Tube now to take a look.

Funny aint it.  There was me asking for all that help from you to make my
map etc, and there was me testing yours! LOL

--
Respectfully

[MrE]Robbie Boy

Alex Yates <alexUK@bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:37716391.77C67E7F@bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk...
> <snip>
> >
> > I was wondering where you'd got to. What happened to that map you
> > promised us? "Washing", wasn't it?
> >
> > --
> > [Ronin]TreeFrog
>
> --
> oh pap, that map again.
> it has been at the mapdepot for several eons now.. the first time i
> checked the matrix testing thingy-ma-bob it had passed all the
> criteria..
> weeks later i checked back again and it had magically been changed to a
> fail :/
>
> file://dodgy gits
>
> that's the last time i take the piss outta them.. possibly.
>
> anyways i've got a new map out! yipee i hear you cry ( tears of joy or
> pain? )
> it's been submitted to the mapdepot, and the mapzone.
> no idea, when it'll be 'official', it seems that you have to be called
> gerbil or rusk prick to actually get a map released anymore..
>
> file://bows head..
>
> here's a direct link if anyone's interested..
>
> http://www.bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk/aq2/maps/tube/tube.zip
>
> my sister said it had nice colours.. thumbs up from her then :P
> --
>
>                                                   alex yates - (bobbins)
>                                     http://www.bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk
>                                  mailto:alexUK@bobbinsUK.freeserve.co.uk

[MrE]Robbie Boy sez:

>As an ex-map tested, I can humbly say that I did like your Washing map.
>
>I'm just downloading Tube now to take a look.
>
>Funny aint it.  There was me asking for all that help from you to make my
>map etc, and there was me testing yours! LOL

I liked Washing too, although it could have been a bit brighter (I had
gl_modulate on 42 and I still kept falling off the roof).

I'll download Tube too, provided there aren't any WAV samples of Paula
Yates anywhere in it...


-- 
TragedyTrousers.