🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Elektrify wrote:

> Firestarter wrote in message <6pigjn$inj29@scotty.tinet.ie>...
> >finally someone who agrees with me
> >i have read lots about AIDS being invented,and try to stick with the
> >evidence,in this case their isnt much
> 
> I thought that AIDS is a metamorphosis of a disease carried by a specific
> bread of monkey in Africa somewhere.  I can remember where I heard but it
> was something to do with contact between these monkeys and humans,  someone
> said sexual but I doubt it.  Aids is apparently only deadly to humans and
> this one bread of monkeys.  NOT apes..Monkeys.

Hmmm it's a possibility, but SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) probably
would not be able to infect human cells under normal circumstances.
Zoonotic diseases (ie ones which transmit across the species barrier) are
rare.  Influenza is one that does and which has a transmission pattern :

ducks <---->pigs<---->humans

This is a pain, becuase it allows great diversity of the virus - and one
reason why it is particularly hard to eliminate.  This is obviously made
easier by it's transmission through droplets as opposed to exchange of
body fluids as in HIV, but if HIV could freely cross species barriers, we
would be facing a longer, harder battle.

Another point : wasn't the first known AIDS related death in the
late 1950's?  I'm sure I saw a program that had some research institution
analysing old tissue sections for traces of HIV, and found some candidate
who died of an 'unknown disease' ie AIDS.

keeping ph.uk off topic and crossposting wildly,

dan

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On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:

> we are capable of making biological viruses that invect only one particular
> sub race of people,if you know what i mean.
> so it is very possible that he is right.

With all due respect that is utter nonsense.  THe only place that is
possible is in the plot of a sci-fi book.  Whilst I don't disagree that we
could create a virus (after all it's just DNA/RNA in a protein shell),
there is nothing you could really do to get it to target one race or
another.. unless of course you can find some great antigenic, cell surface
recognition molecule that I lack and say an ekimo has..

Verrrrrrrrrrry unlikely.  Protein engineering just isn't that great yet...

dan

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Cameron Dorey wrote:
> 
> Dave wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm..
> >
> > That's not all..
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> > Makes you think though, does'nt it.  How many more secrets has the
> > government kept from us over the years.  Why are they so afraid of ppl
> > like ourselves, are they afraid we might uncover something we should'nt.
> >
> > I think we all might have the idea that all this shit about secret bases
> > in Nevada could be rumoured by the government themselves to cover up
> > something a bit more sinister.
> 
> Dave, you don't know just how right you are. I have found out by some
> careful sleuthing over back roads which *aren't on any map* that there
> is something a _lot_ more sinister here. There aren't any secret bases
> in Nevada, this was just a red herring. There IS a whole secret STATE,
> just east of Nevada, which covers approximately 40,000 square miles, in
> which all of these government/alien shenanigans are taking place. The
> state goes by the code name "Hartegamus" (which is actually the home
> planet for one of the first alien ships which landed here). It doesn't
> have any representation in Congress or the Senate, but does all its
> (little) communicating through the CIA's "blue-denim" teams.
> 
> This is why the weather in the Southwest has been so screwed up this
> summer, to make more land available for the Hartegamians, who are
> crowded in their little area and need to take over some of Texas and
> Oklahoma. IF you don't believe the US government can control the
> weather, how do you explain that just 1 hour before the President was to
> commission a new aircraft carrier in Virginia last week, a severe
> thunderstorm which had been drenching the area with rain and strong
> winds just suddenly was blown offshore, so that the ceremony could be
> held in the sunshine? Anti-government protesters didn't have enough time
> to set up, and the President didn't even get a bit wet. Coincidence?
> I'll let you decide.
> 
> And, furthermore, a couple of years ago, when the bus full oa asdioh
> a'foi aweasdi329854na w[padwefnhaw0afdweMNQW'987y32'kl;fd  a[IORWEBUaqwp
> adweiouh asd98qwern a asdif asdo asd]p3w409324
> asw09 nasdf0hja ['dfkj82wmad.c9iu12wld a-pq32lo;cv
> -029UC A'[WEP950IGB Q'Q2        J38POV QW[O3EIOJ V [0IOJ        J 8y yaqwe98y5432
> q[p99845................ !!! What do you think about that??? Pretty
> convincing, huh?
> 
> Cameron

<flame intensity=%102>

dude, you are so full of shit that it's hard to explain.
and that BS in the end? I bet you are gonna try to convince everybody
that the FBI/CIA *blue denim teams* tried not to let this info out
and screwed your msg. "how did they do it?" people will ask you and you 
will say that if the US govt can change meteorological conditions then why 
can't they change something in a NG msg, too? BULLSHIT.
"Hartegamus"? isn't that a new sci-fi book by John Steakly?
sure, dude, everything you said is convincing... convincing in that 
you are a complete imbecile on steroids who needs a proffecional help!
get a life, looser..

</flame>
-- 
An amature thinks it's�funny if you dress a man
up as an old lady, put him in a� wheelchair, and
give the wheelchair a push that sends it spinning
down a slope towards a stone wall.

For a pro it's got to be a real old lady.

������������������������������     -- Grucho Marx

just read a thing here:
In July 1969,the US Army was given a $10 million budget to develop a
synthetic biological agent targeting the immune saystem.By 1990 a quietly
declassified Nation Security Memo (MSN 200) written by Henry
Kissinger,Nixon's National Security advisor,outlined the US's concern over
Third World population.It states "Reduction of the popluation in these
states is a matter of vital US national security"
This has led some observers to conclude that the AIDS virus may have been
designed as part of this covert BW project.

The dates dont appear to be correct,i imagine AIDS was around a bit before
69.
althought lots of scientists think that it first came about in the early 70s
because a infected monkey bit a human,so mabye the first story is true?


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dan the man wrote in message ...
>On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Elektrify wrote:
>
>> Firestarter wrote in message <6pigjn$inj29@scotty.tinet.ie>...
>> >finally someone who agrees with me
>> >i have read lots about AIDS being invented,and try to stick with the
>> >evidence,in this case their isnt much
>>
>> I thought that AIDS is a metamorphosis of a disease carried by a specific
>> bread of monkey in Africa somewhere.  I can remember where I heard but it
>> was something to do with contact between these monkeys and humans,
someone
>> said sexual but I doubt it.  Aids is apparently only deadly to humans and
>> this one bread of monkeys.  NOT apes..Monkeys.
>
>Hmmm it's a possibility, but SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) probably
>would not be able to infect human cells under normal circumstances.
>Zoonotic diseases (ie ones which transmit across the species barrier) are
>rare.  Influenza is one that does and which has a transmission pattern :
>
>ducks <---->pigs<---->humans
>
>This is a pain, becuase it allows great diversity of the virus - and one
>reason why it is particularly hard to eliminate.  This is obviously made
>easier by it's transmission through droplets as opposed to exchange of
>body fluids as in HIV, but if HIV could freely cross species barriers, we
>would be facing a longer, harder battle.
>
>Another point : wasn't the first known AIDS related death in the
>late 1950's?  I'm sure I saw a program that had some research institution
>analysing old tissue sections for traces of HIV, and found some candidate
>who died of an 'unknown disease' ie AIDS.
>
>keeping ph.uk off topic and crossposting wildly,
>
>dan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>| dan@hole-in-the.net AntiArchangel#28 on newbie.darkridge.com |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>|For PGP v5.0 Key please see: black.hole-in-the.net/dan/pgp.txt|
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>

all down to genes really.


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Mark Stang wrote in message <6pkog8$ooa$1@usenet1.interramp.com>...
>One question.  how the hell does the virus know who to infect?  what is so
>different about the races biologically that a virus could only infect one
>and not another?
>
>
>Firestarter wrote in message <6pj1p9$gen24@scotty.tinet.ie>...
>>we are capable of making biological viruses that invect only one
particular
>>sub race of people,if you know what i mean.
>>so it is very possible that he is right.
>>
>>
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>>IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>>
>>s l a / s h wrote in message <35BD02C6.70DE6652@dis.org>...
>>>Dave wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm..
>>>>
>>>> That's not all..
>>>>
>>>> How many ppl in the group are willing to believe the fact that the AIDS
>>>> virus was NOT ACCIDENTAL.  After reading a txt file recently of a
>>>> supposed interview that took place in America, it was revealed that the
>>>> AIDS virus could either be the result of chemical warfare research gone
>>>> wrong or a attempt at population control by the US Government......
>>>
>>>chemical warfare has much more sufficient ways of *controlling
population*
>>>then spreading a virus that might/might not cause an immune deficit in an
>>>organism.
>>>back in the middle 1970's my father, while being a student in a Medical
>>>School in Kiev (former USSR), had lectures on AIDS (SPID in russian
>>>abbreviation) and by that time extensive research on it was already done.
>>>
>>>> Makes you think though, does'nt it.  How many more secrets has the
>>>> government kept from us over the years.  Why are they so afraid of ppl
>>>> like ourselves, are they afraid we might uncover something we
should'nt.
>>>> I think we all might have the idea that all this shit about secret
bases
>>>> in Nevada could be rumoured by the government themselves to cover up
>>>> something a bit more sinister.
>>>>
>>>> I am now going to shutup before this posting begins to sound like some
>>>> bad episode of the X-Files...
>>>
>>>you sure do sound like a bad episode from the X-Files series.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>An amature thinks it's funny if you dress a man
>>>up as an old lady, put him in a wheelchair, and
>>>give the wheelchair a push that sends it spinning
>>>down a slope towards a stone wall.
>>>
>>>For a pro it's got to be a real old lady.
>>>
>>>      -- Grucho Marx
>>
>>
>
>

no-one said they would have time machines
its cler that *if* the are coming here,they either dont use the frequencies
we are looking for with SETI or else use some other way of getting here,
this is a hard thing to grasp but if you know anything about quantum Physics
you will of heard of the "many worlds" theory,it says that we live in a
Multiverse,multiple universe's,people then begin to say ok...then where are
the other universes and what separates the,,thats because we are so used to
3D,left right up down forward and backward,what if their are alot more
dimensions than that,life changes depending on the decision's we make in
live (unless our lives are mapped out for us) so what if their is another
version of you somewhere except s/he made a slightly different decision in
his/her life?
so its not a matter or each universe being beside each other its a different
universe for a different time and different actions made change that
universe?
its hard to explain cos as big as the english language is it isnt big
enough,but tell me if you understand or think im talking through my arse,and
ill try again,so back to the time machine thing,what if they werent as far
away from us as we think? what if they just found a way to slip in and out
of these dimensions and universe's?


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Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmlpf$le8$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
>The Lion King <AVLEENSINGHVIG@nospammy.msn.com> wrote:
>>The SR-71 used a large number of microprocessors or a level which we have
>>only just achieved in the last few years. The design of the SR-71 in
itself
>>was revolutionary.
>
>These have got to be the most boring aliens ever. It's like if aliens
landed
>tomorrow and offered to give me a videotape of next week's episode of
>Urkel. I mean, who are they expecting to impress?
>
>Come on now. At the very least, the aliens could have given us the secret
of
>immortality or a time machine or something. I mean, these guys are barely
>any more effective than a heavily-funded defense research facility... hey,
>wait a sec!
>
>miguel

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okay,try again :)


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    Elektrify wrote in message <6pljhm$o4r$1@heliodor.xara.net>...
    I am sorry, is it the font or the grammar as both are abysmal I =
know.
        Firestarter wrote in message <6pj1p3$gen20@scotty.tinet.ie>...
        i dont fully understand your post,sorry
        =20
       =20
        --=20
        ICQ UIN: 6036731
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       =20
            Elektrify wrote in message =
<6piich$plq$1@heliodor.xara.net>...
           =20

----------------------------------------------------------------         =
      =20
                I cannot say as a fact as I have only been as far as the =
signs,  I didn't want to get shot. but I saw a proggie on discovery =
about UFO's and they speculated that a disc shaped parabolic object with =
a large capaciter in the centre could create a degree of lift,  this is =
fact!  however we do not know how to control these things as yet.  A51 =
could be trying along these lines.  there is no conspiracy just =
undisclosed science.

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML =
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>okay,try =
again=20
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR>-- =
<BR></FONT>ICQ=20
UIN: 6036731<BR>phie site: <A=20
href=3D"http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html">http://dac.org/users/phie/r=
ight.html</A><BR>phie=20
zine: <A=20
href=3D"http://phiezine.zeris.net/">http://phiezine.zeris.net/</A><BR>IRC=
:=20
#hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV>Elektrify<ELEKTRIFY@RICKNN.GLOBALNET.CO.UK> wrote in message =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:6pljhm$o4r$1@heliodor.xara.net">6pljhm$o4r$1@heliodor.xara=
.net</A>&gt;...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>I am sorry, is it =
the font or the=20
    grammar as both are abysmal I know.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
        <DIV>Firestarter<MAJESTIK_12@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message =
&lt;<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:6pj1p3$gen20@scotty.tinet.ie">6pj1p3$gen20@scotty.tinet.ie=
</A>&gt;...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>i =
dont fully=20
        understand your post,sorry</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
        size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2><BR>--=20
        <BR></FONT>ICQ UIN: 6036731<BR>phie site: <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html">http://dac.org/users/phie/r=
ight.html</A><BR>phie=20
        zine: <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://phiezine.zeris.net/">http://phiezine.zeris.net/</A><BR>IRC=
:=20
        #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.<BR></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE=20
        style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
            <DIV>Elektrify<ELEKTRIFY@RICKNN.GLOBALNET.CO.UK> wrote in =
message=20
            &lt;<A=20
            =
href=3D"mailto:6piich$plq$1@heliodor.xara.net">6piich$plq$1@heliodor.xara=
.net</A>&gt;...</DIV>
            <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV align=3Dcenter>
            <BLOCKQUOTE=20
            style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
                <DIV>
                <HR>
                <FONT face=3DHaettenschweiler size=3D2>I cannot say as a =
fact as I=20
                have only been as far as the signs,&nbsp; I didn't want =
to get=20
                shot. but I saw a proggie on discovery about UFO's and =
they=20
                speculated that a disc shaped parabolic object with a =
large=20
                capaciter in the centre could create a degree of =
lift,&nbsp;=20
                this is fact!&nbsp; however we do not know how to =
control these=20
                things as yet.&nbsp; A51 could be trying along these=20
                lines.&nbsp; there is no conspiracy just undisclosed=20
                =
science.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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as i said hitler was an example,i meant some 90s madman such as sadam or
Fidel,well we dont know enough about clonwing at the moment to know wether
they will be born with the talents we try to give them or have to aquire
them
wait a few years and we willfind out if dolly was born with an adults
deteriorating genes.


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Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmm5i$lm5$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
>Firestarter <majestik_12@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> that stuff about using cloneing for medical reasons is all very good but
can
>> you imagine the bad things that can be done?
>> think what hitler would do if he had that capability?
>> millions and millions of the perfect fighter!
>
>How on earth is Hitler going to use cloning technology to make millions of
>perfect fighters? It's not like some Calvin-n-Hobbes thing where one
soldier
>walks in with all his equipment and infinite numbers of full-grown clones
>start goosestepping out the other end.
>
>Each of these millions of perfect fighters would have had to be raised from
>birth at great expense to the state (as opposed to the normal system, where
>governments let families pay for raising their own children, THEN claim
them
>for the army). They'd all have to be trained and equipped and moved around,
>which brings us to Germany's real problems at the end of the war (as
opposed
>to a lack of cloned ubersoldiers).
>
>miguel

I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any noise,i
think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes and
we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can* use
it.


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Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmmb3$m3a$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
>Elektrify <Elektrify@ricknn.globalneta.co.uk> wrote:
>> I cannot say as a fact as I have only been as far as the signs,  I didn't
>> want to get shot. but I saw a proggie on discovery about UFO's and they
>> speculated that a disc shaped parabolic object with a large capaciter in
>> the centre could create a degree of lift, this is fact!
>
>It is a fact that you saw a program on Discovery, or it is a fact that
>someone speculated on camera about the flying potential of a flying disc?
>
>Either way, WOW!
>
>miguel

On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:

> hmmm,mabye they can be made to operate on a genetic level.....will get back
> to ya on that one.

??  They do work at a genetic level, how do you think they reproduce  ??
Retroviridae actually integrate into your DNA, which is why they are used
in genetic engineering and potential future gene therapy.  Still the virus
has to get into the cell first!

Or are you suggesting a non-selective cellular infection followed by
selective genomic integration based on DNA sequence specificity?
Of course that kind of sequence specific integration can be achieved in
certain systems (re: homologous recombination in yeast and homologous
recombination in the targetting of embryonic stem cells to produce
transgenic mice), but it's too messy.

If all the suppositions postulated here about virus creation (there isn't
a Virus Creation Lab of the biological world!) then we would have the
perfect system for gene-therapy, a cure for cancer and the ability to
specifically deliver drugs to the point of action.  Which would be very
nice, but doesn't EXIST!

dan

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Firestarter wrote in message <6pmt9h$q9o15@scotty.tinet.ie>...
>I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any noise,i
>think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes and
>we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can* use
>it.


I actually saw this as well, it didn't have much control, but it definately
worked. Can't remember whether the film came with sound or not though, that
might be the reason it was so quiet! ;)

--
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dan the woman wrote in message ...
>On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:

>Or are you suggesting a non-selective cellular infection followed by
>selective genomic integration based on DNA sequence specificity?
>Of course that kind of sequence specific integration can be achieved in
>certain systems (re: homologous recombination in yeast and homologous
>recombination in the targetting of embryonic stem cells to produce
>transgenic mice), but it's too messy.


You almost sound like you know something about genetics ;)


g.

yeah it was a piece of shit,their was no sound but the voice over said it
was soundless if you were right their.


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Zomba wrote in message <6pn67f$bj$1@heliodor.xara.net>...
>Firestarter wrote in message <6pmt9h$q9o15@scotty.tinet.ie>...
>>I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any noise,i
>>think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes
and
>>we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can*
use
>>it.
>
>
>I actually saw this as well, it didn't have much control, but it definately
>worked. Can't remember whether the film came with sound or not though, that
>might be the reason it was so quiet! ;)
>
>--
>Zomba - http://zomba.home.ml.org/
>http://etg.cjb.net/ - ETG Homepage (#ETG on DALnet)
>
>

he sure does,im gonna have to read a fair bit before ansewering his email :)


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Guy wrote in message
<901718236.13879.0.nnrp-09.c3ad037c@news.demon.co.uk>...
>
>dan the woman wrote in message ...
>>On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:
>
>>Or are you suggesting a non-selective cellular infection followed by
>>selective genomic integration based on DNA sequence specificity?
>>Of course that kind of sequence specific integration can be achieved in
>>certain systems (re: homologous recombination in yeast and homologous
>>recombination in the targetting of embryonic stem cells to produce
>>transgenic mice), but it's too messy.
>
>
>You almost sound like you know something about genetics ;)
>
>
>g.
>
>

I don't mean to sound as if I do not believe everything is a conspiracy
but....

Has anyone here ever thought that maybe we are where we are and what happens
does not cause new universes or is pre-planned,  maybe it just is?

as for aliens? did anyone see Starship troupers?

Elektrify.

yeah mabye everything is preplanned
but who the hell plans it? (another big Q)
no havent seen that movie,id say it is funny,shame how their are little
serious movie's like that.


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Elektrify wrote in message <6pnofd$g0c$2@heliodor.xara.net>...
>I don't mean to sound as if I do not believe everything is a conspiracy
>but....
>
>Has anyone here ever thought that maybe we are where we are and what
happens
>does not cause new universes or is pre-planned,  maybe it just is?
>
>as for aliens? did anyone see Starship troupers?
>
>Elektrify.
>
>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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well ya know that plane the bluebird and darkstar?
well they make the stealth look normal
they are about 40+ years old so it would be interesting to know what we =
are doing now.


--=20
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IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.

    Elektrify wrote in message <6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net>...
   =20
        Firestarter wrote in message <6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie>...
        okay,try again :)
        =20
        The point is that the technology exists just in a form too =
primitive to be used,  or too new to have been shown to be used.
        =20
        EL.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML =
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML =
PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>well ya =
know that plane=20
the bluebird and darkstar?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>well they make the stealth look=20
normal</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>they are about 40+ years =
old so it=20
would be interesting to know what we are doing now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR>-- =
<BR></FONT>ICQ=20
UIN: 6036731<BR>phie site: <A=20
href=3D"http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html">http://dac.org/users/phie/r=
ight.html</A><BR>phie=20
zine: <A=20
href=3D"http://phiezine.zeris.net/">http://phiezine.zeris.net/</A><BR>IRC=
:=20
#hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV>Elektrify<ELEKTRIFY@RICKNN.GLOBALNET.CO.UK> wrote in message =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net">6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara=
.net</A>&gt;...</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
        <DIV>Firestarter<MAJESTIK_12@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message =
&lt;<A=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie">6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie=
</A>&gt;...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>okay,try again=20
        :)</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
        size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>The point is =
that the=20
        technology exists just in a form too primitive to be used,&nbsp; =
or too=20
        new to have been shown to be used.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>EL.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BDBB29.D1BB2CC0--

ahh found it:
"considerable concern has been raised over "gene-specific biological
weapons".These are said to be able to attack specific races.Little is known
about them publicly,but a 1994 US "Military Affairs and Conflicts Short of
War",sketched out a fictional war set in 2010.The authors,US military
theoriticians,Steven Metz and James Kievit,state that "certain biotechnical
weapons-considered by some to violatethe biological warfare convention to
which the United States is a signatory -also may transgress American
values".
Metz and Kievit continue by discussing the public reaction to these weapons
that could target "Africans,Jews,Koreans,Hispanics,etc.The authors so not
include any Anglo-Saxons in their "ethnic cleansing" targetting list."

their ya go,unfortunatly it isnt as specific as you were,and dosent say
actually *how* they are constructed to infect only one particular group.
AIDS dosent seem to care who it infects so i would have to say i think it
was just a mistake,my mind is still open though,so tell me what you all
think.


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dan the man wrote in message ...
>On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:
>
>> hmmm,mabye they can be made to operate on a genetic level.....will get
back
>> to ya on that one.
>
>??  They do work at a genetic level, how do you think they reproduce  ??
>Retroviridae actually integrate into your DNA, which is why they are used
>in genetic engineering and potential future gene therapy.  Still the virus
>has to get into the cell first!
>
>Or are you suggesting a non-selective cellular infection followed by
>selective genomic integration based on DNA sequence specificity?
>Of course that kind of sequence specific integration can be achieved in
>certain systems (re: homologous recombination in yeast and homologous
>recombination in the targetting of embryonic stem cells to produce
>transgenic mice), but it's too messy.
>
>If all the suppositions postulated here about virus creation (there isn't
>a Virus Creation Lab of the biological world!) then we would have the
>perfect system for gene-therapy, a cure for cancer and the ability to
>specifically deliver drugs to the point of action.  Which would be very
>nice, but doesn't EXIST!
>
>dan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>| dan@hole-in-the.net AntiArchangel#28 on newbie.darkridge.com |
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>|For PGP v5.0 Key please see: black.hole-in-the.net/dan/pgp.txt|
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>

The Lion King <AVLEENSINGHVIG@nospammy.msn.com> wrote:
>The SR-71 used a large number of microprocessors or a level which we have
>only just achieved in the last few years. The design of the SR-71 in itself
>was revolutionary.

These have got to be the most boring aliens ever. It's like if aliens landed
tomorrow and offered to give me a videotape of next week's episode of
Urkel. I mean, who are they expecting to impress?

Come on now. At the very least, the aliens could have given us the secret of
immortality or a time machine or something. I mean, these guys are barely
any more effective than a heavily-funded defense research facility... hey,
wait a sec!

miguel

Firestarter <majestik_12@hotmail.com> wrote:
> that stuff about using cloneing for medical reasons is all very good but can
> you imagine the bad things that can be done?
> think what hitler would do if he had that capability?
> millions and millions of the perfect fighter!

How on earth is Hitler going to use cloning technology to make millions of
perfect fighters? It's not like some Calvin-n-Hobbes thing where one soldier
walks in with all his equipment and infinite numbers of full-grown clones
start goosestepping out the other end.

Each of these millions of perfect fighters would have had to be raised from
birth at great expense to the state (as opposed to the normal system, where
governments let families pay for raising their own children, THEN claim them
for the army). They'd all have to be trained and equipped and moved around,
which brings us to Germany's real problems at the end of the war (as opposed
to a lack of cloned ubersoldiers).

miguel

Elektrify <Elektrify@ricknn.globalneta.co.uk> wrote:
> I cannot say as a fact as I have only been as far as the signs,  I didn't
> want to get shot. but I saw a proggie on discovery about UFO's and they
> speculated that a disc shaped parabolic object with a large capaciter in
> the centre could create a degree of lift, this is fact!

It is a fact that you saw a program on Discovery, or it is a fact that
someone speculated on camera about the flying potential of a flying disc? 

Either way, WOW!

miguel

Where is this film...Any https for it...?

Zomba wrote:

> Firestarter wrote in message <6pmt9h$q9o15@scotty.tinet.ie>...
> >I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any noise,i
> >think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes and
> >we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can* use
> >it.
>
> I actually saw this as well, it didn't have much control, but it definately
> worked. Can't remember whether the film came with sound or not though, that
> might be the reason it was so quiet! ;)
>
> --
> Zomba - http://zomba.home.ml.org/
> http://etg.cjb.net/ - ETG Homepage (#ETG on DALnet)

im sure you could find some MOV files of it somewhere but its a needle in a
haystack if you dont know where to look.
ive got it on tape beside me now but thats not much good to you.


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AdDanA! wrote in message <35C02586.2F28F823@usa.net>...
>Where is this film...Any https for it...?
>
>Zomba wrote:
>
>> Firestarter wrote in message <6pmt9h$q9o15@scotty.tinet.ie>...
>> >I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any
noise,i
>> >think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes
and
>> >we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can*
use
>> >it.
>>
>> I actually saw this as well, it didn't have much control, but it
definately
>> worked. Can't remember whether the film came with sound or not though,
that
>> might be the reason it was so quiet! ;)
>>
>> --
>> Zomba - http://zomba.home.ml.org/
>> http://etg.cjb.net/ - ETG Homepage (#ETG on DALnet)
>
>
>
>
>

AdDanA! wrote in message <35C02586.2F28F823@usa.net>...
>Where is this film...Any https for it...?


Not that I know of, I saw it on Discovery or something, it was a TV
documentary anyway. It was mainly about Roswell IIRC.

--
Zomba - http://zomba.home.ml.org/
http://etg.cjb.net/ - ETG Homepage (#ETG on DALnet)

IIRC???


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Zomba wrote in message <6pplps$6sd$1@heliodor.xara.net>...
>AdDanA! wrote in message <35C02586.2F28F823@usa.net>...
>>Where is this film...Any https for it...?
>
>
>Not that I know of, I saw it on Discovery or something, it was a TV
>documentary anyway. It was mainly about Roswell IIRC.
>
>--
>Zomba - http://zomba.home.ml.org/
>http://etg.cjb.net/ - ETG Homepage (#ETG on DALnet)
>
>

In article <6ppudr$6g417@scotty.tinet.ie>, Firestarter
<majestik_12@hotmail.com> writes
>IIRC???
if i recall correctly

                   Defiant,

        defiant@cyberdefiant.demon.co.uk
         www.cyberdefiant.demon.co.uk 
   -Life is just a dream on the way to death-

Really so humanity is in still in it's kill everyone phase.  Interesting since
Communism collapsed, and recently there have been more movements toward peace
instead of war.  For instance NATO is now getting more countries from the
Eastern Block to sign up.  China just recently had a visit from President
Clinton.  The only threats to peace now (aside from terrorists, etc.) is the
Pakistan vs. India showdown (both countries with nukes who dislike each other)
and the conflict of China vs. Taiwan (China says it's a rebel district of China
and Taiwan says it is it's own nation.).  Anything I miss?  Oh as for the Hitler
Story, well power is what you make of it.  One can use it for bad things and
another can use it for good things.  You see you keep talking about Genetic
technology (specifically cloning) is such a deadly power, what about nuclear
power?? I mean Nuclear technology can be devastating.  Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
remember the Manhattan Project??  And where are we today? With NUCLEAR reactors
powering our cities.  So homecome we can't say the same about genetic
technology.  Maybe 50 years from now, genetics is used everyday to SAVE people
from all kinds of problems.  Burn victims, victims of ogran failure, victims of
chronic illnesses could be saved and restored to tip top condition.  So instead
of being so negative try to lighten up.  There are several good reasons why
genetic technology should be developed more.

Firestarter wrote:

> where are you disagreeing with me?
> you have summed up everything ive already said,the hitler story was an
> egsample of how power can fall in the wrong hands,i wasnt hinting for a
> moment that he actually had cloneing technology.
> and when you look into the history you tend to see alot of negative
> things,sure their are good things,but its important to think that cloneing
> can be used for bad things too,considering we dont seem to be coming out of
> our destructive: kill everyone phase
> it is worth thinking about.
>
> --
> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>
> Nobody wrote in message <6piur3$661@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >So just because you and I think it is wrong, does it stop anyone from
> conducting
> >the research??  If one is determined and has the resources they can easily
> do
> >it.  Besides, must you look at the worst case scenarios?  Through genetics
> many
> >advances have been made to AID humankind.  Take for instance common plants
> that
> >grow medicine that you can I use.  Cows that make certain types of milk for
> >people with medical alliments to drink.  And what about crops that produce
> more
> >food per acre?  Geez look on the bright side of things.  Oh and all this
> talk
> >about giving power to a baby... well you're right genetic power is
> something
> >more deadly than anything else.  Biological weapons are indeed more deadly
> than
> >nuclear weapons.  The problem is that the risks out wiegh any possible
> gains
> >that one could have in using genetics to create a weapon.  The risk of that
> >biological weapon to go wrong and backfire is too high.  And finally all
> this
> >talk about Hitler.  Ok if and I do mean if, Hitler had the capability of
> cloning
> >then everyone else would too.  It would come down to a battle of who had
> the
> >most resources.  Just a little history for you.  Hitler relied on a quick
> >decisive war.  Swift and stunning.  Germany never had the resources to pull
> a
> >long war. Just like back in the American Civil War. The South could never
> had
> >fought a long war. If anything, the South need a quick war.  And that is
> why in
> >both cases, those sides lost.  Of course there were other factors, but I
> really
> >don't have the time nor the energy to go into that.
> >
> >Firestarter wrote:
> >
> >> that stuff about using cloneing for medical reasons is all very good but
> can
> >> you imagine the bad things that can be done?
> >> think what hitler would do if he had that capability?
> >> millions and millions of the perfect fighter!
> >> then theirs the moral aspect but this dosent matter because its going to
> be
> >> done anyway,its like giving a child a toy and telling him he cant use it.
> >> mabye its been done already?,the fact is nobody knows!
> >> i saw a program a while back about a guy who wanted to clone humans,he
> wasnt
> >> allowed by the goverment,but in texas it is still legal,he said he would
> >> move his research to texas and do it their if he had to and was not
> giving
> >> up.
> >>
> >> --
> >> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> >> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> >> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> >> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
> >>
> >> Nobody wrote in message <6pgq6h$lvm@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >> >I agree completely. Just like the research in non-lethal weapons.
> >> Ultrasonic,
> >> >Vortex, and Laser research done my our government is very important.  As
> >> for
> >> >corporations doing research like this, well it all depends on the
> >> corporation.  I
> >> >mean if a corporation where to research genetics and cloning, I sure
> they
> >> could get
> >> >a lot of profit.  I mean useable organs are very costly and if a
> >> corporation where
> >> >able to mass produce, let's take hearts, hearts then they could make a
> lot
> >> of
> >> >money.  Now if you are going to say that such a feat is impossible, then
> >> look at
> >> >the mice they cloned recently.  24 clones and some where clones of
> clones.
> >> >Interesting ain't it.
> >> >
> >> >- wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Nobody <somewhere@over.the.rainbow> Said this:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Let me guess this place out in Nevada. It was an old abandon base
> which
> >> also
> >> >> >known as Area 51???!!??
> >> >>
> >> >> Exactly, another flaw in the whole story - they abandoned that
> >> >> facility at least 2 years ago after they finally figured it's cover
> >> >> was completely blown.  I believe the skunk works and all the other
> >> >> black projects are in Colorado or New Mexico now.
> >> >>
> >> >> And oh yeah.... black projects aren't all the big a deal.  I for one
> >> >> am glad they exist - I can't imagine how some commercial and "real
> >> >> world" technologies would become available if the government didn't
> >> >> fund this sort of advanced, almost surreal research.  I can't see a
> >> >> GM, or a GE, or a Microsoft funding the same kind of research, since
> >> >> most of the projects probably get scrapped after a few years and a few
> >> >> hundred million dollars.  Corporations can't afford such "frivolous"
> >> >> research, they need ROI (return on Investment).
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Daniel (dS=dQ/T) Key wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> blowclinton@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> >> >> >> <6pc4eu$32r$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >> >> >> >Okay...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >A friend of mine, whose identity must remain anonymous has agreed
> for
> >> me to
> >> >> >> >let everyone know what she has seen.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

Let me break this into various parts.
1-D a Line
2-D a Square, Circle, etc.
3-D a Box, Sphere, etc.
4-D Us.
We are in a 4-D dimension.  Even though we are 3-D we must factor in time which
leads to the 4-D.
As for multiple universes, do you mean Parallel Dimensions??  'Cause that ain't
as hard to explain.  Parallel Dimensions - other dimensions that may or may not
be similar to ours and different due to every single choice/action we take.
Example: You woke up and got up on the right side of your bed (This Dimension).
You woke up and got up on the left side of your bed (Parallel Dimension).  As
for time machines.  Have any of you heard about the you-are-your-own-family-tree
theory??  Aliens would have to be pretty dumb to give us a time machine.  Any
fool that went back in time could destory the present by merely doing something.

Firestarter wrote:

> no-one said they would have time machines
> its cler that *if* the are coming here,they either dont use the frequencies
> we are looking for with SETI or else use some other way of getting here,
> this is a hard thing to grasp but if you know anything about quantum Physics
> you will of heard of the "many worlds" theory,it says that we live in a
> Multiverse,multiple universe's,people then begin to say ok...then where are
> the other universes and what separates the,,thats because we are so used to
> 3D,left right up down forward and backward,what if their are alot more
> dimensions than that,life changes depending on the decision's we make in
> live (unless our lives are mapped out for us) so what if their is another
> version of you somewhere except s/he made a slightly different decision in
> his/her life?
> so its not a matter or each universe being beside each other its a different
> universe for a different time and different actions made change that
> universe?
> its hard to explain cos as big as the english language is it isnt big
> enough,but tell me if you understand or think im talking through my arse,and
> ill try again,so back to the time machine thing,what if they werent as far
> away from us as we think? what if they just found a way to slip in and out
> of these dimensions and universe's?
>
> --
> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>
> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmlpf$le8$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
> >The Lion King <AVLEENSINGHVIG@nospammy.msn.com> wrote:
> >>The SR-71 used a large number of microprocessors or a level which we have
> >>only just achieved in the last few years. The design of the SR-71 in
> itself
> >>was revolutionary.
> >
> >These have got to be the most boring aliens ever. It's like if aliens
> landed
> >tomorrow and offered to give me a videotape of next week's episode of
> >Urkel. I mean, who are they expecting to impress?
> >
> >Come on now. At the very least, the aliens could have given us the secret
> of
> >immortality or a time machine or something. I mean, these guys are barely
> >any more effective than a heavily-funded defense research facility... hey,
> >wait a sec!
> >
> >miguel
>

Why would somebody advertise a Virus Creation Lab anyway??? Besides it is always
easier to destroy than to build.  Just because you don't know about it doesn't
mean it doesn't exists.  I bet some natives living in the Brazilian Rain Forest
doesn't know about space shuttles or vehicles that travel in space, but they
exist don't they?

dan the man wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:
>
> > hmmm,mabye they can be made to operate on a genetic level.....will get back
> > to ya on that one.
>
> ??  They do work at a genetic level, how do you think they reproduce  ??
> Retroviridae actually integrate into your DNA, which is why they are used
> in genetic engineering and potential future gene therapy.  Still the virus
> has to get into the cell first!
>
> Or are you suggesting a non-selective cellular infection followed by
> selective genomic integration based on DNA sequence specificity?
> Of course that kind of sequence specific integration can be achieved in
> certain systems (re: homologous recombination in yeast and homologous
> recombination in the targetting of embryonic stem cells to produce
> transgenic mice), but it's too messy.
>
> If all the suppositions postulated here about virus creation (there isn't
> a Virus Creation Lab of the biological world!) then we would have the
> perfect system for gene-therapy, a cure for cancer and the ability to
> specifically deliver drugs to the point of action.  Which would be very
> nice, but doesn't EXIST!
>
> dan
>
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
> | dan@hole-in-the.net AntiArchangel#28 on newbie.darkridge.com |
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
> |For PGP v5.0 Key please see: black.hole-in-the.net/dan/pgp.txt|
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
>

Actually antigravity is a force.  Just like gravity is a force.  There's a
physics website somewhere that says that.  Plus a Duke University Professor who
teaches at the NC School of Science and Math reaffirmed that fact as well.

Firestarter wrote:

> I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any noise,i
> think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes and
> we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can* use
> it.
>
> --
> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>
> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmmb3$m3a$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
> >Elektrify <Elektrify@ricknn.globalneta.co.uk> wrote:
> >> I cannot say as a fact as I have only been as far as the signs,  I didn't
> >> want to get shot. but I saw a proggie on discovery about UFO's and they
> >> speculated that a disc shaped parabolic object with a large capaciter in
> >> the centre could create a degree of lift, this is fact!
> >
> >It is a fact that you saw a program on Discovery, or it is a fact that
> >someone speculated on camera about the flying potential of a flying disc?
> >
> >Either way, WOW!
> >
> >miguel
>

Either that or he just copied some stuff from a book. Not that I saying he
is, but just throwing in the possibility.

Guy wrote:

> dan the woman wrote in message ...
> >On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:
>
> >Or are you suggesting a non-selective cellular infection followed by
> >selective genomic integration based on DNA sequence specificity?
> >Of course that kind of sequence specific integration can be achieved in
> >certain systems (re: homologous recombination in yeast and homologous
> >recombination in the targetting of embryonic stem cells to produce
> >transgenic mice), but it's too messy.
>
> You almost sound like you know something about genetics ;)
>
> g.
>

And in a previous post by someone else, you would still have to raise the clones
and that would be a great price to a nation becuase the costs required to keep
it a secret.  Talents aren't genetic.  It's not like if my dad was a super
musician that I could be one too.  Go back and study some genetics.

Firestarter wrote:

> as i said hitler was an example,i meant some 90s madman such as sadam or
> Fidel,well we dont know enough about clonwing at the moment to know wether
> they will be born with the talents we try to give them or have to aquire
> them
> wait a few years and we willfind out if dolly was born with an adults
> deteriorating genes.
>
> --
> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>
> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmm5i$lm5$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
> >Firestarter <majestik_12@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> that stuff about using cloneing for medical reasons is all very good but
> can
> >> you imagine the bad things that can be done?
> >> think what hitler would do if he had that capability?
> >> millions and millions of the perfect fighter!
> >
> >How on earth is Hitler going to use cloning technology to make millions of
> >perfect fighters? It's not like some Calvin-n-Hobbes thing where one
> soldier
> >walks in with all his equipment and infinite numbers of full-grown clones
> >start goosestepping out the other end.
> >
> >Each of these millions of perfect fighters would have had to be raised from
> >birth at great expense to the state (as opposed to the normal system, where
> >governments let families pay for raising their own children, THEN claim
> them
> >for the army). They'd all have to be trained and equipped and moved around,
> >which brings us to Germany's real problems at the end of the war (as
> opposed
> >to a lack of cloned ubersoldiers).
> >
> >miguel
>

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How about Spy satellites that can read the license plate from a car in a
MEO orbit?

Firestarter wrote:


>
>
>  well ya know that plane the bluebird and darkstar?well they make the
> stealth look normalthey are about 40+ years old so it would be
> interesting to know what we are doing now.
>
>
> --
> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>
>      Elektrify wrote in message
>      <6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net>...
>
>           Firestarter wrote in message
>           <6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie>...okay,try again
>           :) The point is that the technology exists just in
>           a form too primitive to be used,  or too new to
>           have been shown to be used. EL.
>

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How about Spy satellites that can read the license plate from a car in
a MEO orbit?
<P>Firestarter wrote:
<BR>&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>well
ya know that plane the bluebird and darkstar?</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT SIZE=-1>well
they make the stealth look normal</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT SIZE=-1>they
are about 40+ years old so it would be interesting to know what we are
doing now.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P><BR><FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>--</FONT></FONT></FONT>
<BR>ICQ UIN: 6036731
<BR>phie site: <A HREF="http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html">http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html</A>
<BR>phie zine: <A HREF="http://phiezine.zeris.net/">http://phiezine.zeris.net/</A>
<BR>IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Elektrify<ELEKTRIFY@RICKNN.GLOBALNET.CO.UK>
wrote in message &lt;<A HREF="mailto:6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net">6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net</A>>...&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE 
    style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Firestarter<MAJESTIK_12@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote in message &lt;<A HREF="mailto:6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie">6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie</A>>...<FONT FACE="Times New Roman"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>okay,try
again :)</FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>The
point is that the technology exists just in a form too primitive to be
used,&nbsp; or too new to have been shown to be used.</FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT FACE="Arial"><FONT COLOR="#000000"><FONT SIZE=-1>EL.</FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

</BODY>
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--------------0D6617A8380727672135CEA8--

yes but what is it and what has it got to do with roswell???


--
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Defiant wrote in message ...
>In article <6ppudr$6g417@scotty.tinet.ie>, Firestarter
><majestik_12@hotmail.com> writes
>>IIRC???
>if i recall correctly
>
>                   Defiant,
>
>        defiant@cyberdefiant.demon.co.uk
>         www.cyberdefiant.demon.co.uk
>   -Life is just a dream on the way to death-

exactly,i found it hard to explain but you did it well
i was going to say that some people go to the toilet in the morning and
brush their teeth some dont
but that will go fine as a example.
explain this you are your own family theory i might know it but it dosent
ring a bell????


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Nobody wrote in message <35C0B628.FD6149B9@over.the.rainbow>...
>Let me break this into various parts.
>1-D a Line
>2-D a Square, Circle, etc.
>3-D a Box, Sphere, etc.
>4-D Us.
>We are in a 4-D dimension.  Even though we are 3-D we must factor in time
which
>leads to the 4-D.
>As for multiple universes, do you mean Parallel Dimensions??  'Cause that
ain't
>as hard to explain.  Parallel Dimensions - other dimensions that may or may
not
>be similar to ours and different due to every single choice/action we take.
>Example: You woke up and got up on the right side of your bed (This
Dimension).
>You woke up and got up on the left side of your bed (Parallel Dimension).
As
>for time machines.  Have any of you heard about the
you-are-your-own-family-tree
>theory??  Aliens would have to be pretty dumb to give us a time machine.
Any
>fool that went back in time could destory the present by merely doing
something.
>
>Firestarter wrote:
>
>> no-one said they would have time machines
>> its cler that *if* the are coming here,they either dont use the
frequencies
>> we are looking for with SETI or else use some other way of getting here,
>> this is a hard thing to grasp but if you know anything about quantum
Physics
>> you will of heard of the "many worlds" theory,it says that we live in a
>> Multiverse,multiple universe's,people then begin to say ok...then where
are
>> the other universes and what separates the,,thats because we are so used
to
>> 3D,left right up down forward and backward,what if their are alot more
>> dimensions than that,life changes depending on the decision's we make in
>> live (unless our lives are mapped out for us) so what if their is another
>> version of you somewhere except s/he made a slightly different decision
in
>> his/her life?
>> so its not a matter or each universe being beside each other its a
different
>> universe for a different time and different actions made change that
>> universe?
>> its hard to explain cos as big as the english language is it isnt big
>> enough,but tell me if you understand or think im talking through my
arse,and
>> ill try again,so back to the time machine thing,what if they werent as
far
>> away from us as we think? what if they just found a way to slip in and
out
>> of these dimensions and universe's?
>>
>> --
>> ICQ UIN: 6036731
>> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
>> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
>> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>>
>> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmlpf$le8$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
>> >The Lion King <AVLEENSINGHVIG@nospammy.msn.com> wrote:
>> >>The SR-71 used a large number of microprocessors or a level which we
have
>> >>only just achieved in the last few years. The design of the SR-71 in
>> itself
>> >>was revolutionary.
>> >
>> >These have got to be the most boring aliens ever. It's like if aliens
>> landed
>> >tomorrow and offered to give me a videotape of next week's episode of
>> >Urkel. I mean, who are they expecting to impress?
>> >
>> >Come on now. At the very least, the aliens could have given us the
secret
>> of
>> >immortality or a time machine or something. I mean, these guys are
barely
>> >any more effective than a heavily-funded defense research facility...
hey,
>> >wait a sec!
>> >
>> >miguel
>>
>

yes
gravity pushes down and anti gravity pushes up (to be as simplistic as
possible)

do you know the URL to the uni you mentioned?


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IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.

Nobody wrote in message <35C0B6B0.80700842@over.the.rainbow>...
>Actually antigravity is a force.  Just like gravity is a force.  There's a
>physics website somewhere that says that.  Plus a Duke University Professor
who
>teaches at the NC School of Science and Math reaffirmed that fact as well.
>
>Firestarter wrote:
>
>> I saw a declassified film of a made up UFO taking off without any noise,i
>> think it was in the 60s and was totally crap,but then tecnology changes
and
>> we are able to use anti gravity now,probably not very well,but we *can*
use
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> ICQ UIN: 6036731
>> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
>> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
>> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>>
>> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmmb3$m3a$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
>> >Elektrify <Elektrify@ricknn.globalneta.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> I cannot say as a fact as I have only been as far as the signs,  I
didn't
>> >> want to get shot. but I saw a proggie on discovery about UFO's and
they
>> >> speculated that a disc shaped parabolic object with a large capaciter
in
>> >> the centre could create a degree of lift, this is fact!
>> >
>> >It is a fact that you saw a program on Discovery, or it is a fact that
>> >someone speculated on camera about the flying potential of a flying
disc?
>> >
>> >Either way, WOW!
>> >
>> >miguel
>>
>

yes thats true but their will always be a few madmen.

what about the sadam V america thing?

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Nobody wrote in message <35C0B1A2.ADD027F8@over.the.rainbow>...
>Really so humanity is in still in it's kill everyone phase.  Interesting
since
>Communism collapsed, and recently there have been more movements toward
peace
>instead of war.  For instance NATO is now getting more countries from the
>Eastern Block to sign up.  China just recently had a visit from President
>Clinton.  The only threats to peace now (aside from terrorists, etc.) is
the
>Pakistan vs. India showdown (both countries with nukes who dislike each
other)
>and the conflict of China vs. Taiwan (China says it's a rebel district of
China
>and Taiwan says it is it's own nation.).  Anything I miss?  Oh as for the
Hitler
>Story, well power is what you make of it.  One can use it for bad things
and
>another can use it for good things.  You see you keep talking about Genetic
>technology (specifically cloning) is such a deadly power, what about
nuclear
>power?? I mean Nuclear technology can be devastating.  Hiroshima and
Nagasaki,
>remember the Manhattan Project??  And where are we today? With NUCLEAR
reactors
>powering our cities.  So homecome we can't say the same about genetic
>technology.  Maybe 50 years from now, genetics is used everyday to SAVE
people
>from all kinds of problems.  Burn victims, victims of ogran failure,
victims of
>chronic illnesses could be saved and restored to tip top condition.  So
instead
>of being so negative try to lighten up.  There are several good reasons why
>genetic technology should be developed more.
>
>Firestarter wrote:
>
>> where are you disagreeing with me?
>> you have summed up everything ive already said,the hitler story was an
>> egsample of how power can fall in the wrong hands,i wasnt hinting for a
>> moment that he actually had cloneing technology.
>> and when you look into the history you tend to see alot of negative
>> things,sure their are good things,but its important to think that
cloneing
>> can be used for bad things too,considering we dont seem to be coming out
of
>> our destructive: kill everyone phase
>> it is worth thinking about.
>>
>> --
>> ICQ UIN: 6036731
>> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
>> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
>> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>>
>> Nobody wrote in message <6piur3$661@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>> >So just because you and I think it is wrong, does it stop anyone from
>> conducting
>> >the research??  If one is determined and has the resources they can
easily
>> do
>> >it.  Besides, must you look at the worst case scenarios?  Through
genetics
>> many
>> >advances have been made to AID humankind.  Take for instance common
plants
>> that
>> >grow medicine that you can I use.  Cows that make certain types of milk
for
>> >people with medical alliments to drink.  And what about crops that
produce
>> more
>> >food per acre?  Geez look on the bright side of things.  Oh and all this
>> talk
>> >about giving power to a baby... well you're right genetic power is
>> something
>> >more deadly than anything else.  Biological weapons are indeed more
deadly
>> than
>> >nuclear weapons.  The problem is that the risks out wiegh any possible
>> gains
>> >that one could have in using genetics to create a weapon.  The risk of
that
>> >biological weapon to go wrong and backfire is too high.  And finally all
>> this
>> >talk about Hitler.  Ok if and I do mean if, Hitler had the capability of
>> cloning
>> >then everyone else would too.  It would come down to a battle of who had
>> the
>> >most resources.  Just a little history for you.  Hitler relied on a
quick
>> >decisive war.  Swift and stunning.  Germany never had the resources to
pull
>> a
>> >long war. Just like back in the American Civil War. The South could
never
>> had
>> >fought a long war. If anything, the South need a quick war.  And that is
>> why in
>> >both cases, those sides lost.  Of course there were other factors, but I
>> really
>> >don't have the time nor the energy to go into that.
>> >
>> >Firestarter wrote:
>> >
>> >> that stuff about using cloneing for medical reasons is all very good
but
>> can
>> >> you imagine the bad things that can be done?
>> >> think what hitler would do if he had that capability?
>> >> millions and millions of the perfect fighter!
>> >> then theirs the moral aspect but this dosent matter because its going
to
>> be
>> >> done anyway,its like giving a child a toy and telling him he cant use
it.
>> >> mabye its been done already?,the fact is nobody knows!
>> >> i saw a program a while back about a guy who wanted to clone humans,he
>> wasnt
>> >> allowed by the goverment,but in texas it is still legal,he said he
would
>> >> move his research to texas and do it their if he had to and was not
>> giving
>> >> up.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ICQ UIN: 6036731
>> >> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
>> >> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
>> >> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>> >>
>> >> Nobody wrote in message <6pgq6h$lvm@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>> >> >I agree completely. Just like the research in non-lethal weapons.
>> >> Ultrasonic,
>> >> >Vortex, and Laser research done my our government is very important.
As
>> >> for
>> >> >corporations doing research like this, well it all depends on the
>> >> corporation.  I
>> >> >mean if a corporation where to research genetics and cloning, I sure
>> they
>> >> could get
>> >> >a lot of profit.  I mean useable organs are very costly and if a
>> >> corporation where
>> >> >able to mass produce, let's take hearts, hearts then they could make
a
>> lot
>> >> of
>> >> >money.  Now if you are going to say that such a feat is impossible,
then
>> >> look at
>> >> >the mice they cloned recently.  24 clones and some where clones of
>> clones.
>> >> >Interesting ain't it.
>> >> >
>> >> >- wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Nobody <somewhere@over.the.rainbow> Said this:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Let me guess this place out in Nevada. It was an old abandon base
>> which
>> >> also
>> >> >> >known as Area 51???!!??
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Exactly, another flaw in the whole story - they abandoned that
>> >> >> facility at least 2 years ago after they finally figured it's cover
>> >> >> was completely blown.  I believe the skunk works and all the other
>> >> >> black projects are in Colorado or New Mexico now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And oh yeah.... black projects aren't all the big a deal.  I for
one
>> >> >> am glad they exist - I can't imagine how some commercial and "real
>> >> >> world" technologies would become available if the government didn't
>> >> >> fund this sort of advanced, almost surreal research.  I can't see a
>> >> >> GM, or a GE, or a Microsoft funding the same kind of research,
since
>> >> >> most of the projects probably get scrapped after a few years and a
few
>> >> >> hundred million dollars.  Corporations can't afford such
"frivolous"
>> >> >> research, they need ROI (return on Investment).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Daniel (dS=dQ/T) Key wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> blowclinton@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
>> >> >> >> <6pc4eu$32r$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> >> >> >> >Okay...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >A friend of mine, whose identity must remain anonymous has
agreed
>> for
>> >> me to
>> >> >> >> >let everyone know what she has seen.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

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yeah thats possible
probably not used unless it is very very iportant but yes its possible


--=20
ICQ UIN: 6036731
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IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.

    Nobody wrote in message <35C0B95F.9F6B168C@over.the.rainbow>...
    How about Spy satellites that can read the license plate from a car =
in a MEO orbit?=20
    Firestarter wrote:=20
     =20

         =20
         well ya know that plane the bluebird and darkstar?well they =
make the stealth look normalthey are about 40+ years old so it would be =
interesting to know what we are doing now.  =20

       =20
        --=20
        ICQ UIN: 6036731=20
        phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html=20
        phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/=20
        IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.=20

            Elektrify wrote in message =
<6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net>... =20
                Firestarter wrote in message =
<6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie>...okay,try again :) The point is that the =
technology exists just in a form too primitive to be used,  or too new =
to have been shown to be used. EL.

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>yeah thats=20
possible</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>probably not used unless it is very =
very iportant=20
but yes its possible</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><BR>-- =
<BR></FONT>ICQ=20
UIN: 6036731<BR>phie site: <A=20
href=3D"http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html">http://dac.org/users/phie/r=
ight.html</A><BR>phie=20
zine: <A=20
href=3D"http://phiezine.zeris.net/">http://phiezine.zeris.net/</A><BR>IRC=
:=20
#hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV>Nobody<SOMEWHERE@OVER.THE.RAINBOW> wrote in message &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:35C0B95F.9F6B168C@over.the.rainbow">35C0B95F.9F6B168C@over=
.the.rainbow</A>&gt;...</DIV>How=20
    about Spy satellites that can read the license plate from a car in a =
MEO=20
    orbit?=20
    <P>Firestarter wrote: <BR>&nbsp;=20
    <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE =3D CITE>&nbsp;=20
        <P>&nbsp;<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT =
color=3D#000000><FONT=20
        size=3D-1>well ya know that plane the bluebird and=20
        darkstar?</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><FONT=20
        size=3D-1>well they make the stealth look =
normal</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
        face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT size=3D-1>they are about 40+ =
years old so it=20
        would be interesting to know what we are doing=20
        now.</FONT></FONT>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        <P><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT =
color=3D#000000><FONT=20
        size=3D-1>--</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR>ICQ UIN: 6036731 <BR>phie =
site: <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html">http://dac.org/users/phie/r=
ight.html</A>=20
        <BR>phie zine: <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://phiezine.zeris.net/">http://phiezine.zeris.net/</A>=20
        <BR>IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.=20
        <BLOCKQUOTE=20
        style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Elektrify<ELEKTRIFY@RICKNN.GLOBALNET.CO.UK>=20
            wrote in message &lt;<A=20
            =
href=3D"mailto:6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara.net">6pnoff$g0c$3@heliodor.xara=
.net</A>&gt;...&nbsp;=20
           =20
            <BLOCKQUOTE=20
            style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Firestarter<MAJESTIK_12@HOTMAIL.COM>=20
                wrote in message &lt;<A=20
                =
href=3D"mailto:6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie">6pmt9g$q9o14@scotty.tinet.ie=
</A>&gt;...<FONT=20
                face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
                size=3D-1>okay,try again =
:)</FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT=20
                face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>The =
point is that=20
                the technology exists just in a form too primitive to be =

                used,&nbsp; or too new to have been shown to be=20
                used.</FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial><FONT =

                color=3D#000000><FONT=20
        =
size=3D-1>EL.</FONT></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BDBBF6.1FD45540--

yes but you are born with a better chance at excelling those particular
skills

do you understand?


--
ICQ UIN: 6036731
phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.

Nobody wrote in message <35C0B75A.688AA17@over.the.rainbow>...
>And in a previous post by someone else, you would still have to raise the
clones
>and that would be a great price to a nation becuase the costs required to
keep
>it a secret.  Talents aren't genetic.  It's not like if my dad was a super
>musician that I could be one too.  Go back and study some genetics.
>
>Firestarter wrote:
>
>> as i said hitler was an example,i meant some 90s madman such as sadam or
>> Fidel,well we dont know enough about clonwing at the moment to know
wether
>> they will be born with the talents we try to give them or have to aquire
>> them
>> wait a few years and we willfind out if dolly was born with an adults
>> deteriorating genes.
>>
>> --
>> ICQ UIN: 6036731
>> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
>> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
>> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>>
>> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmm5i$lm5$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
>> >Firestarter <majestik_12@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> that stuff about using cloneing for medical reasons is all very good
but
>> can
>> >> you imagine the bad things that can be done?
>> >> think what hitler would do if he had that capability?
>> >> millions and millions of the perfect fighter!
>> >
>> >How on earth is Hitler going to use cloning technology to make millions
of
>> >perfect fighters? It's not like some Calvin-n-Hobbes thing where one
>> soldier
>> >walks in with all his equipment and infinite numbers of full-grown
clones
>> >start goosestepping out the other end.
>> >
>> >Each of these millions of perfect fighters would have had to be raised
from
>> >birth at great expense to the state (as opposed to the normal system,
where
>> >governments let families pay for raising their own children, THEN claim
>> them
>> >for the army). They'd all have to be trained and equipped and moved
around,
>> >which brings us to Germany's real problems at the end of the war (as
>> opposed
>> >to a lack of cloned ubersoldiers).
>> >
>> >miguel
>>
>

Hey this guy is right on the mark.  So that's what it is called.  I've always
wondered.  But yeah that's the full story.  Pretty niffty, eh?

The Dark Ange1 wrote:

> Heres the text of that paradox as it appears in Stephen Hawkings, "A Brief
> History of Time" :
>
> �Jane� is left at an orphanage as a foundling. When �Jane� is a teenager, she
> falls in love with a drifter, who abandons her but leaves her pregnant. Then
> disaster strikes. She almost dies giving birth to a baby girl, who is then
> mysteriously kidnapped. The doctors find that Jane is bleeding badly, but, oddly
> enough, has both sex organs. So, to save her life, the doctors convert �Jane� to
> �Jim.�
>
>     �Jim� subsequently becomes a roaring drunk, until he meets a friendly
> bartender (actually a time traveler in disguise) who wisks �Jim� way back into
> the past. �Jim� meets a beautiful teenage girl, then accidentally gets her
> pregnant with a baby girl. Out of guilt, he kidnaps the baby girl and drops her
> off at the orphanage. Later, �Jim� joins the time travelers corps, leads a
> distinguished life, and has one last dream: to disguise himself as a bartender
> to meet a certain drunk named �Jim� in the past. So,  who is �Jane�s� mother,
> father, brother, sister, grandfather, grandmother, and grandchild?
>
> This is one of the reasons (according to Hawking), that time travel would be
> impossible, as a paradox of this kind would most probably "destroy" the
> space/time dimension structure.  Arguments to this theory include the Infinite
> universe theory, also known as the Parallel universe theory, which says that
> every time there is an occurence that has more than one possible outcome (and
> remember that nearly everything is possible, just some things are highly
> improbable) , a seperate "universe" branches off from the present for each
> outcome (including the movement of subatomic particles, this means there are a
> very, very large number of parallel universes).
> --
> The Dark Ange1 <the_darkange1@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
> Remove the NOSPAM to reply
>

In article <35C148A5.CD44A88@over.the.rainbow>, somewhere@over.the.rainbow 
says...
> To make a long theory short.  It goes like this. Person A grew up lonely and
> isolated, abandon at birth, person A was depressed. However, this gives Person A
> the advantage of not being tied down to anything.  So person A get's hired to do
> some time traveling (like Time Cop) to prevent alterations in the past.  In a
> particular mission he falls in love with someone and they have  a child. However
> the mother died while giving birth.  Now Person A has to return the future, but
> he can't take the kid with him so he abandons him. Not knowing that the kid is
> actually him.  See how this is a paradox.  Of course this is a very simplified
> version and I left out a lot of stuff because I don't have the time to write it
> all out.
> 
> Firestarter wrote:
> 
> > exactly,i found it hard to explain but you did it well
> > i was going to say that some people go to the toilet in the morning and
> > brush their teeth some dont
> > but that will go fine as a example.
> > explain this you are your own family theory i might know it but it dosent
> > ring a bell????
> >
> > --
> > ICQ UIN: 6036731
> > phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> > phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> > IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
> >
> > Nobody wrote in message <35C0B628.FD6149B9@over.the.rainbow>...
> > >Let me break this into various parts.
> > >1-D a Line
> > >2-D a Square, Circle, etc.
> > >3-D a Box, Sphere, etc.
> > >4-D Us.
> > >We are in a 4-D dimension.  Even though we are 3-D we must factor in time
> > which
> > >leads to the 4-D.
> > >As for multiple universes, do you mean Parallel Dimensions??  'Cause that
> > ain't
> > >as hard to explain.  Parallel Dimensions - other dimensions that may or may
> > not
> > >be similar to ours and different due to every single choice/action we take.
> > >Example: You woke up and got up on the right side of your bed (This
> > Dimension).
> > >You woke up and got up on the left side of your bed (Parallel Dimension).
> > As
> > >for time machines.  Have any of you heard about the
> > you-are-your-own-family-tree
> > >theory??  Aliens would have to be pretty dumb to give us a time machine.
> > Any
> > >fool that went back in time could destory the present by merely doing
> > something.
Heres the text of that paradox as it appears in Stephen Hawkings, "A Brief 
History of Time" :

�Jane� is left at an orphanage as a foundling. When �Jane� is a teenager, she 
falls in love with a drifter, who abandons her but leaves her pregnant. Then 
disaster strikes. She almost dies giving birth to a baby girl, who is then 
mysteriously kidnapped. The doctors find that Jane is bleeding badly, but, oddly 
enough, has both sex organs. So, to save her life, the doctors convert �Jane� to 
�Jim.�

    �Jim� subsequently becomes a roaring drunk, until he meets a friendly 
bartender (actually a time traveler in disguise) who wisks �Jim� way back into 
the past. �Jim� meets a beautiful teenage girl, then accidentally gets her 
pregnant with a baby girl. Out of guilt, he kidnaps the baby girl and drops her 
off at the orphanage. Later, �Jim� joins the time travelers corps, leads a 
distinguished life, and has one last dream: to disguise himself as a bartender 
to meet a certain drunk named �Jim� in the past. So,  who is �Jane�s� mother, 
father, brother, sister, grandfather, grandmother, and grandchild?
  
This is one of the reasons (according to Hawking), that time travel would be 
impossible, as a paradox of this kind would most probably "destroy" the 
space/time dimension structure.  Arguments to this theory include the Infinite 
universe theory, also known as the Parallel universe theory, which says that 
every time there is an occurence that has more than one possible outcome (and 
remember that nearly everything is possible, just some things are highly 
improbable) , a seperate "universe" branches off from the present for each 
outcome (including the movement of subatomic particles, this means there are a 
very, very large number of parallel universes).
-- 
The Dark Ange1 <the_darkange1@NOSPAM.yahoo.com>
Remove the NOSPAM to reply

In article <6pqfg4$iu08@scotty.tinet.ie>, majestik_12@hotmail.com says...
> yes but what is it and what has it got to do with roswell???

The program was about *aliens* and mainly involved Roswell (ie. "the 
program was mainly about Roswell"), they just showed that film clip as 
well.

--
Zomba - http://zomba.home.ml.org/
http://etg.cjb.net/ - ETG Homepage (#ETG on DALnet)

To make a long theory short.  It goes like this. Person A grew up lonely and
isolated, abandon at birth, person A was depressed. However, this gives Person A
the advantage of not being tied down to anything.  So person A get's hired to do
some time traveling (like Time Cop) to prevent alterations in the past.  In a
particular mission he falls in love with someone and they have  a child. However
the mother died while giving birth.  Now Person A has to return the future, but
he can't take the kid with him so he abandons him. Not knowing that the kid is
actually him.  See how this is a paradox.  Of course this is a very simplified
version and I left out a lot of stuff because I don't have the time to write it
all out.

Firestarter wrote:

> exactly,i found it hard to explain but you did it well
> i was going to say that some people go to the toilet in the morning and
> brush their teeth some dont
> but that will go fine as a example.
> explain this you are your own family theory i might know it but it dosent
> ring a bell????
>
> --
> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
>
> Nobody wrote in message <35C0B628.FD6149B9@over.the.rainbow>...
> >Let me break this into various parts.
> >1-D a Line
> >2-D a Square, Circle, etc.
> >3-D a Box, Sphere, etc.
> >4-D Us.
> >We are in a 4-D dimension.  Even though we are 3-D we must factor in time
> which
> >leads to the 4-D.
> >As for multiple universes, do you mean Parallel Dimensions??  'Cause that
> ain't
> >as hard to explain.  Parallel Dimensions - other dimensions that may or may
> not
> >be similar to ours and different due to every single choice/action we take.
> >Example: You woke up and got up on the right side of your bed (This
> Dimension).
> >You woke up and got up on the left side of your bed (Parallel Dimension).
> As
> >for time machines.  Have any of you heard about the
> you-are-your-own-family-tree
> >theory??  Aliens would have to be pretty dumb to give us a time machine.
> Any
> >fool that went back in time could destory the present by merely doing
> something.
> >
> >Firestarter wrote:
> >
> >> no-one said they would have time machines
> >> its cler that *if* the are coming here,they either dont use the
> frequencies
> >> we are looking for with SETI or else use some other way of getting here,
> >> this is a hard thing to grasp but if you know anything about quantum
> Physics
> >> you will of heard of the "many worlds" theory,it says that we live in a
> >> Multiverse,multiple universe's,people then begin to say ok...then where
> are
> >> the other universes and what separates the,,thats because we are so used
> to
> >> 3D,left right up down forward and backward,what if their are alot more
> >> dimensions than that,life changes depending on the decision's we make in
> >> live (unless our lives are mapped out for us) so what if their is another
> >> version of you somewhere except s/he made a slightly different decision
> in
> >> his/her life?
> >> so its not a matter or each universe being beside each other its a
> different
> >> universe for a different time and different actions made change that
> >> universe?
> >> its hard to explain cos as big as the english language is it isnt big
> >> enough,but tell me if you understand or think im talking through my
> arse,and
> >> ill try again,so back to the time machine thing,what if they werent as
> far
> >> away from us as we think? what if they just found a way to slip in and
> out
> >> of these dimensions and universe's?
> >>
> >> --
> >> ICQ UIN: 6036731
> >> phie site: http://dac.org/users/phie/right.html
> >> phie zine: http://phiezine.zeris.net/
> >> IRC: #hackers_ireland,#hackerzlair,#2600-uk.
> >>
> >> Miguel Cruz wrote in message <6pmlpf$le8$1@news.ycc.yale.edu>...
> >> >The Lion King <AVLEENSINGHVIG@nospammy.msn.com> wrote:
> >> >>The SR-71 used a large number of microprocessors or a level which we
> have
> >> >>only just achieved in the last few years. The design of the SR-71 in
> >> itself
> >> >>was revolutionary.
> >> >
> >> >These have got to be the most boring aliens ever. It's like if aliens
> >> landed
> >> >tomorrow and offered to give me a videotape of next week's episode of
> >> >Urkel. I mean, who are they expecting to impress?
> >> >
> >> >Come on now. At the very least, the aliens could have given us the
> secret
> >> of
> >> >immortality or a time machine or something. I mean, these guys are
> barely
> >> >any more effective than a heavily-funded defense research facility...
> hey,
> >> >wait a sec!
> >> >
> >> >miguel
> >>
> >
>

On 30 Jul 1998, Nobody wrote:

> Either that or he just copied some stuff from a book. Not that I saying he
> is, but just throwing in the possibility.

Hmm...

<CREDENTIALS>
BSc(Hons) Genetics
PhD Developmental Genetics
</CREDENTIALS>

That is not bmeant to be a brag, but to show I do *not* need to copy from
a book... this really is my bread and butter ;-)
Whilst I realise there may be technologies of which I am not aware... the
scientific research community is quite open - hence the publication of
results in research journals.  I think there are a few people following
this thread displaying an overly paranoid frame of mind especially with
regards to the biological capabilities of the government.  

Where were the details of the cloning of Dolly (and more recently mice)
published?  

A journal called Nature.. that you can pick up in any decent bookstore.
Not some super secret government document.

Another thing, the military (whilst having their own establishments for
research) farm a lot of their research work to University labs - hardly
the ultra classified environment you would expect.

Of course if you're really interested in what goes on behind the scenes..
get trained up and go work for the MOD at Porton Down... bring back your
findings to the group...

dan

 --------------------------------------------------------------
| dan@hole-in-the.net AntiArchangel#28 on newbie.darkridge.com |
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|For PGP v5.0 Key please see: black.hole-in-the.net/dan/pgp.txt|
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On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Firestarter wrote:

> yes but you are born with a better chance at excelling those particular
> skills
> 
> do you understand?

Now you're branching into the nature vs nurture argument.  Complex traits
say intelligence (if inherited at all) are going to be multifactorial (ie
the cumulative effect of many, many genes).  Genes interact with the
environment, you cannot provide even genetically identical individuals (ie
monozygotic or 'identical' twins) with a similar enough environment to
make them the 'same' in all respects.

I'm sure there is a wealth of information on the net about this.  Try
searching for 'Twin studies' and 'mental disorders' or 'disease'.

Multifactorial inheritance does not deal in the absolutes of black and
white, yes and no, 1 and 0.  It deals with percentages, possibilities and
chance.  So for the time being the kind of satisfactory breeding program
for the 'Superman' espoused is not a reality.

dan

 --------------------------------------------------------------
| dan@hole-in-the.net AntiArchangel#28 on newbie.darkridge.com |
 --------------------------------------------------------------
|For PGP v5.0 Key please see: black.hole-in-the.net/dan/pgp.txt|
 --------------------------------------------------------------

try blank slate theory.

Elektrify

try the blank slate theory.

Elektrify

Elektrify <Elektrify@ricknn.globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>try the blank slate theory.

Trying it won't make it true.

In any case, Saddan could clone all the soldiers he wants... he could piece
together the perfect genetic material from all the world's Olympic athletes
and Nobel Prize winners and hot-dog-eating championships... he could make
one million of them.

I would be surprised if he could come up with the resources to bring 5 of
them to the level of accomplishment that any of his inputs demonstrated. He
doesn't have the Olympic stadiums and coaches. He doesn't have the
universities and laboratories and professors. He doesn't have the food. For
that matter, he doesn't even have the logistical capability to feed a
decent-sized city, let alone determine and duplicate the circumstances that
would lead to anything but ignominy and eventual starvation for his cloned
army.

miguel

please, don't crossposting in es.comp.hackers. In theese group only in
spanish.

Boiled Animal By-Products  <sp@m.block> wrote:
>Miguel Cruz wrote:
>> In any case, Saddan could clone all the soldiers he wants... 
>
>Do you guys have any idea what "off topic" means - you're posting into
>comp.lang.perl.misc, and I don't think Saddam would be using Perl to clone soldiers

Sadly enough, of all those groups I only read clpm. I've long ago given up
on worrying about on vs off-topic; seems to me like spurious topics always
die off on their own eventually, and if not, there's always the newsreader
to solve the problem.

But I'll try to control myself. You have to admit you were reading it too.

miguel