🚀 go-pugleaf

rec.org.mensa trimmed out - what the hell was that doing there?

In article <DrBL7p.BKt@world.std.com>,
John Cooley <jcooley@world.std.com> wrote:
>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known for
>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been going out
>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said no
>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some weight.
>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try dating
>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her.  Over
>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For the 
>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend tells
>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they *never*
>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those pricey
>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she still
>can't get a second date!

Wrong again, sir.  I married someone that size.  We are no longer
married, but her size has nothing to do with the divorce.  There are
lots of men who like big women.  I happen to know two, besides myself,
who either dated for a respectable period of time or married big
women.  You just don't happen to know any.

Our approaches are clearly quite different.  When I'm looking, I find
plenty of dates with women of all sizes.  Size doesn't matter very
much to me, you see.  Brains and personality do.  And, just in case
you want to ask, yes, these women *do* get second dates.  And third
and fourth and fifth if we find we have something to talk about.

I do not know how your aquaintance is approaching the dating aspect of
her life.  And since you don't know her very well at all, her being a
friend of a friend, you aren't qualified to say that it's merely her
size that makes the difference.  Now, if you had personal knowledge of
how she talks with people, what her personality is, you might not say
what you did above.

Frankly, I find your comments amazing because you assume so much.  You
would be well advised to speak from personal experience only.

Lastly, I think you're posting outrageous remarks like the above
merely to start a topic.

					Robert
-- 
--------------------------
Robert Becker                                      robertb@world.std.com
Erstwhile bicyclist, avid father, longtime breather

In <DrBL7p.BKt@world.std.com> jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley)
writes: 
>
>Bogbody <bogbody@aol.com> wrote:
>>I, too, am impressed when I hear that a man has a nice car or owns
his own
>>house. I am not overly impressed when I hear that a man lives with
five
>>roommates in a run-down flat and rides a second-hand scooter. As
several
>>women have pointed out, however, it is not the WEALTH that is
impressive,
>>it is the indication that the man is a responsible, stable adult.

This is so true.  I do like a man who owns a home or even rents his own
apt.  This is because I take care of myself and I like to know a man
can take care of himself. 

 If
>>wealth were the issue, then I would be impressed by men who drive
Ferari's
>>(spelling, sorry) - as it is, I wouldn't be interested in a man who
drove
>>such a vulgar, flashy thing. If a man is too wealthy, I might become
>>uneasy. (I'm not sure why.) However, if a man has a NICE car and a
DECENT
>>place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might
just
>>turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very
least,
>>even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that
this
>>guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.

I've been involved with men who hadn't left home yet and I won't get
involved with them because they don't know how to be responsible.  If I
life with a man I don't want to take over the role of "mom"
>
>
>That's funny: these are almost the exact same words my fireman friend
said
>when he got the house on Cape Cod and the Jeep.  (I went to his
wedding
>yesterday.)  He used to say he could almost hear the women go into
this
>"maternal mode" when they saw his car and heard he owned a house.  He
>got a hell of a lot of dates and really enjoyed himself this way!
>
>
>>I hope that men are using similar, parrallel criteria when they are
>>evaluating a woman they have just met...
>
>That's a little more complicated these days, Katy.  It used to be that
>men were purely judged as "success objects" and women as "sex objects"
>(to very grossly oversimplfy things)...  but with women's equality and
the
>economic pressures we're all under, it's gotten kind of muddied.   I
must
>admit that most guys still have to be physically attracted (at first)
>for a relationship to even begin and I don't think this is really
going
>to change much....

This goes both ways.
>
>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known
for
>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been
going out
>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said
no
>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some
weight.
>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try
dating
>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her. 
Over
>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For
the 
>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend
tells
>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they
*never*
>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those
pricey
>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she
still
>can't get a second date!
>
>  - John
>
When your overwieght I don't think dating services are the way to go. 
She needs to meet men and let them get to know her.  These men aren't
getting a chance to see her personality.  It's like going on a blind
date.  The only way any of us will do it, is if the person is
attractive.  When you meet someone for the first time and your even a
little disappointed that sets the stage for the rest of the date.  You
don't allow yourself to relax and get to know the person from the
inside out.  I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just how it is in
most cases.

Just my opinion

Jen

In article <DrBL7p.BKt@world.std.com>, John Cooley <jcooley@world.std.com> wrote:
>Bogbody <bogbody@aol.com> wrote:
>>I, too, am impressed when I hear that a man has a nice car or owns his own
>>house. I am not overly impressed when I hear that a man lives with five
>>roommates in a run-down flat and rides a second-hand scooter. As several
>>women have pointed out, however, it is not the WEALTH that is impressive,
>>it is the indication that the man is a responsible, stable adult. If
>>wealth were the issue, then I would be impressed by men who drive Ferari's
>>(spelling, sorry) - as it is, I wouldn't be interested in a man who drove
>>such a vulgar, flashy thing. If a man is too wealthy, I might become
>>uneasy. (I'm not sure why.) However, if a man has a NICE car and a DECENT
>>place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might just
>>turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very least,
>>even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that this
>>guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.
>
>That's funny: these are almost the exact same words my fireman friend said
>when he got the house on Cape Cod and the Jeep.  (I went to his wedding
>yesterday.)  He used to say he could almost hear the women go into this
>"maternal mode" when they saw his car and heard he owned a house.  He
>got a hell of a lot of dates and really enjoyed himself this way!

If I weren't engaged now, that's what I'd be shooting for.  I'm almost
close enough financially to get a good car and a modest flat (hell, I
coulda taken one in Santa Monica but the rent controls were just lifted -
oops, that's not owning, that's renting... owning's the point here :).
Game over.  No more "you're a nice guy, BUT!" bullshit.


>>I hope that men are using similar, parrallel criteria when they are
>>evaluating a woman they have just met...
>
>That's a little more complicated these days, Katy.  It used to be that
>men were purely judged as "success objects" and women as "sex objects"
>(to very grossly oversimplfy things)...  but with women's equality and the
>economic pressures we're all under, it's gotten kind of muddied.   I must
>admit that most guys still have to be physically attracted (at first)
>for a relationship to even begin and I don't think this is really going
>to change much....

To hell with that.  The best position to be in, is an affluent man who
ISN'T attracted to a woman just for her looks.  A man who keeps a firm
reign on his hormones (and general impulses), is both fairly hard to crack
(the usual feminine charms can't break open his wallet), and also attractive
because, despite a few predictably clueless thoughts to the contrary, a man
with self-control is, to the degree of his proficiency, highly popular dating
material.  So basically he attracts the worldly women (the easiest to
attract if you've got what it takes), but they find it hard to leech off of
him. :)

Assuming, of course, that you're into that scene.


>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known for
>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been going out
>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said no
>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some weight.
>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try dating
>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her.  Over
>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For the 
>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend tells
>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they *never*
>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those pricey
>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she still
>can't get a second date!

She's a real rarity.


-- Steve

John Cooley (jcooley@world.std.com) wrote:
: Bogbody <bogbody@aol.com> wrote:
: >I, too, am impressed when I hear that a man has a nice car or owns his own
: >house. I am not overly impressed when I hear that a man lives with five
: >roommates in a run-down flat and rides a second-hand scooter. As several
: >women have pointed out, however, it is not the WEALTH that is impressive,
: >it is the indication that the man is a responsible, stable adult. If

More the flaunting of wealth.
Taking up excessive living space and generating air pollution are hardly
the most socially responsible of actions :-)

: >wealth were the issue, then I would be impressed by men who drive Ferari's
: >(spelling, sorry) - as it is, I wouldn't be interested in a man who drove
: >such a vulgar, flashy thing. If a man is too wealthy, I might become
: >uneasy. (I'm not sure why.) However, if a man has a NICE car and a DECENT
: >place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might just
: >turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very least,
: >even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that this
: >guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.
: 

The way I heard it is that men look for younger women who are more likely to 
bear him children, and women look for successfull men who are more likely to 
provide for them. 

Gus

In article <DrBL7p.BKt@world.std.com>, jcooley@world.std.com says...
>
>Bogbody <bogbody@aol.com> wrote:
>>I, too, am impressed when I hear that a man has a nice car or owns his own
>>house. I am not overly impressed when I hear that a man lives with five
>>roommates in a run-down flat and rides a second-hand scooter. As several
>>women have pointed out, however, it is not the WEALTH that is impressive,
>>it is the indication that the man is a responsible, stable adult. If
>>wealth were the issue, then I would be impressed by men who drive Ferari's
>>(spelling, sorry) - as it is, I wouldn't be interested in a man who drove
>>such a vulgar, flashy thing. If a man is too wealthy, I might become
>>uneasy. (I'm not sure why.) However, if a man has a NICE car and a DECENT
>>place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might just
>>turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very least,
>>even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that this
>>guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.
>
>
>That's funny: these are almost the exact same words my fireman friend said
>when he got the house on Cape Cod and the Jeep.  (I went to his wedding
>yesterday.)  He used to say he could almost hear the women go into this
>"maternal mode" when they saw his car and heard he owned a house.  He
>got a hell of a lot of dates and really enjoyed himself this way!
>
>
>>I hope that men are using similar, parrallel criteria when they are
>>evaluating a woman they have just met...
>
>That's a little more complicated these days, Katy.  It used to be that
>men were purely judged as "success objects" and women as "sex objects"
>(to very grossly oversimplfy things)...  but with women's equality and the
>economic pressures we're all under, it's gotten kind of muddied.   I must
>admit that most guys still have to be physically attracted (at first)
>for a relationship to even begin and I don't think this is really going
>to change much....
>
>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known for
>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been going 
out
>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said no
>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some 
weight.
>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try dating
>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her.  Over
>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For the 
>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend tells
>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they *never*
>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those pricey
>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she still
>can't get a second date!
>
>  - John
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>  __))    "Glass ceilings?  Name ANY ex-goat farmer who's made management!"
> /_ oo  
>  (_ \   Holliston Poor Farm                                   - John 
Cooley
>%//  \"  Holliston, MA 01746-6222           part time Sheep & ex-Goat 
Farmer
>%%%  $   jcooley@world.std.com       full time contract ASIC & FPGA 
Designer
>

In article <DrBsHI.Gz3@world.std.com>, Robert Becker <robertb@world.std.com> wrote:
>rec.org.mensa trimmed out - what the hell was that doing there?
>
>In article <DrBL7p.BKt@world.std.com>,
>John Cooley <jcooley@world.std.com> wrote:
>>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known for
>>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been going out
>>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said no
>>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some weight.
>>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try dating
>>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her.  Over
>>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For the 
>>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend tells
>>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they *never*
>>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those pricey
>>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she still
>>can't get a second date!
>
>Wrong again, sir.  I married someone that size.  We are no longer
>married, but her size has nothing to do with the divorce.  There are
>lots of men who like big women.  I happen to know two, besides myself,
>who either dated for a respectable period of time or married big
>women.  You just don't happen to know any.

NOT wrong again.  He even stated he was grossly oversimplifying things
(something you snipped) which means it doesn't apply to ALL men and women,
that looks is what draws a man's attention.  The situation does exist where
men will reject women for looks; it is not a denial of all other
possibilities.  How to deal with that situation is indeed a very important
issue.


>I do not know how your aquaintance is approaching the dating aspect of
>her life.  And since you don't know her very well at all, her being a
>friend of a friend, you aren't qualified to say that it's merely her
>size that makes the difference.  Now, if you had personal knowledge of
>how she talks with people, what her personality is, you might not say
>what you did above.

Then again he might still.  These people and situations do exist - yours is
not the only reality, nor is his.


>Frankly, I find your comments amazing because you assume so much.  You
>would be well advised to speak from personal experience only.

That was what he was doing.  Learn to read.


>Lastly, I think you're posting outrageous remarks like the above
>merely to start a topic.

The outrage was in what YOU depicted of his remarks.  The topic is quite
valid, as is your point about how you (and, assuming many men who you know)
treat women.  But there is a chance that she may not be among men as
enlightened as you, and as such it is a valid point to discuss what their
mental outlook is, and how to deal with it.

You have no idea if it's their attitude, or hers, that's causing her
problems.  But he has a right to start a topic and at least HOPE that he
can learn some advice to help him discern which; or to start a topic and
fuck it up, or do something in between.  People say outrageous shit around
here all the time to start topics.


-- Steve

John Cooley <jcooley@world.std.com> wrote:
>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known for
>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been going out
>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said no
>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some weight.
>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try dating
>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her.  Over
>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For the 
>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend tells
>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they *never*
>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those pricey
>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she still
>can't get a second date!

Robert Becker <robertb@world.std.com> wrote:
>Wrong again, sir.  I married someone that size.  We are no longer
>married, but her size has nothing to do with the divorce.  There are
>lots of men who like big women.  I happen to know two, besides myself,
>who either dated for a respectable period of time or married big
>women.  You just don't happen to know any.
>
>Our approaches are clearly quite different.  When I'm looking, I find
>plenty of dates with women of all sizes.  Size doesn't matter very
>much to me, you see.  Brains and personality do.  And, just in case
>you want to ask, yes, these women *do* get second dates.  And third
>and fourth and fifth if we find we have something to talk about.


Robert, what do you do for a living?  How old are you?   I'm asking because
I may be able to set up a date between you & "Barb".  (You seemed to have
made a great deal about how you don't care about a woman's weight here.  I
don't know if this is some sort of Internet persona you're using in hopes
of attracting dates by showing how sensitive & caring you are (there are
guys who try this) or the real you.  If you really don't care about a woman's
weight, perhaps you should go out with Barb.  It would be good for her and
evidently good for you.....   Do you live near Boston or what?)

  - John

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  __))    "Glass ceilings?  Name ANY ex-goat farmer who's made management!"
 /_ oo  
  (_ \   Holliston Poor Farm                                   - John Cooley
%//  \"  Holliston, MA 01746-6222           part time Sheep & ex-Goat Farmer
%%%  $   jcooley@world.std.com       full time contract ASIC & FPGA Designer

Jennifer R Lind  <betzl@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>When your overwieght I don't think dating services are the way to go. 
>She needs to meet men and let them get to know her.  These men aren't
>getting a chance to see her personality.  It's like going on a blind
>date.  The only way any of us will do it, is if the person is
>attractive.  When you meet someone for the first time and your even a
>little disappointed that sets the stage for the rest of the date.  You
>don't allow yourself to relax and get to know the person from the
>inside out.  I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just how it is in
>most cases.

Jen, what I was trying tp point out is that in our youth-oriented culture
overweight women are treated very differently compared to slim women.
I think it more than just the dating scene; I'm talking in all sorts of
situations.  (This reminds me of when I was in college of how I went
to visit a female friend I had known from high school at her all girls
Catholic college.  We were friends, not romantic.  After noting how
well dressed and well groomed all the girls were all the time (even
when they were "bumming" around) I asked my friend Michelle what was
up.  (This was after one girl had refused to go to Sunday morning
breakfast because she didn't want to take all the time to "make herself
up" even though there were only other women around at this cafeteria
on a Sunday morning.)  She said: "We don't dress up and put on all
the make-up for guys -- it's mostly for the other women!  It's
how we judge each other.")

  - John

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  __))    "Glass ceilings?  Name ANY ex-goat farmer who's made management!"
 /_ oo  
  (_ \   Holliston Poor Farm                                   - John Cooley
%//  \"  Holliston, MA 01746-6222           part time Sheep & ex-Goat Farmer
%%%  $   jcooley@world.std.com       full time contract ASIC & FPGA Designer

In article <DrGArq.L33@world.std.com>,
John Cooley <jcooley@world.std.com> wrote:
>John Cooley <jcooley@world.std.com> wrote:
>>I have an aquaintance (more like a friend of a friend) who I've known for
>>the past three years whose name I'll say is "Barb".  Barb has been going out
>>with Ben for over 9 years and desperately wants to marry him.  He said no
>>because of a mix of reasons plus the fact he wanted her to lose some weight.
>>Barb was kind of bullshit about the whole thing so started to try dating
>>other men.  She has a fairly good job, her own condo, but she was 5'6"
>>and wore size 22 clothes.  She couldn't get any guys to date her.  Over
>>about 6 months she lost about 30 lbs and plateaued at size 18.  For the 
>>past 1 1/2 years she's been doing everything to get a steady
>>boyfriend -- stuff like paying big bucks to answer personal ads and
>>joining dating services.  And every weekend the friend of a friend tells
>>me how poor Barb had a great date with some new guy -- but they *never*
>>call her back for a second date.  Barb's even joined one of those pricey
>>dating services where it worked out to $120.00 per date -- and she still
>>can't get a second date!
>
>Robert Becker <robertb@world.std.com> wrote:
>>Wrong again, sir.  I married someone that size.  We are no longer
>>married, but her size has nothing to do with the divorce.  There are
>>lots of men who like big women.  I happen to know two, besides myself,
>>who either dated for a respectable period of time or married big
>>women.  You just don't happen to know any.
>>
>>Our approaches are clearly quite different.  When I'm looking, I find
>>plenty of dates with women of all sizes.  Size doesn't matter very
>>much to me, you see.  Brains and personality do.  And, just in case
>>you want to ask, yes, these women *do* get second dates.  And third
>>and fourth and fifth if we find we have something to talk about.
>
>
>Robert, what do you do for a living?  How old are you?   I'm asking because
>I may be able to set up a date between you & "Barb".  (You seemed to have
>made a great deal about how you don't care about a woman's weight here.  I
>don't know if this is some sort of Internet persona you're using in hopes
>of attracting dates by showing how sensitive & caring you are (there are
>guys who try this) or the real you.  If you really don't care about a woman's
>weight, perhaps you should go out with Barb.  It would be good for her and
>evidently good for you.....   Do you live near Boston or what?)

In another thread, Steve wrote that it was outrageous that I flamed
you.  After a couple days of thinking, I think he is right about that.
I apologize.  The topic of weight and dating is important.

At another time I might be interested in dating.  Unfortunately, right
now I'm not.  My willingness to date has nothing to do with being put
on the spot; it has everything to do with getting over a divorce and
trying to build myself a future.

On the other hand, I have no problem meeting people socially in
groups.  When the next singles gathering is posted, let her know when
and where it is.

On the weight issue, though, it's more important to me *why* the
person is overweight.  Eating habits are some of the hardest to break,
so becomming overweight might be a matter of not being as active as
one used to be, or simply a matter of enjoying food a lot.  It could
be stress related, or it could also just be that person's metabolism.

Sometimes being large is a sign of personality disorder (eating
compulsively), and that's the only situation that really concerns me.

					Robert
-- 
--------------------------
Robert Becker                                      robertb@world.std.com
Erstwhile bicyclist, avid father, longtime breather

On Wed, 15 May 1996, John Cooley wrote:
...snip
> breakfast because she didn't want to take all the time to "make herself
> up" even though there were only other women around at this cafeteria
> on a Sunday morning.)  She said: "We don't dress up and put on all
> the make-up for guys -- it's mostly for the other women!  It's
> how we judge each other.")
...snip

Oh so THAT's what went wrong. I went to Oberlin College, where we learned
how to think. Damn the bad luck! I should've gone to Our Lady Of Perpetual
Makeup to prepare for life in the real world. 

;-)

--Louise

Steve Chaney wrote:

<all kinds of context snipped>

> To hell with that.  The best position to be in, is an affluent man who
> ISN'T attracted to a woman just for her looks.  A man who keeps a firm
> reign on his hormones (and general impulses), is both fairly hard to crack

I always love a challenge.

> (the usual feminine charms can't break open his wallet), 

Oh.  Nevermind.  Wasn't paying attention to the prize between door number
three.  


and it's close enough to midnight so that I'm in the wrong thread anyway.

-Allison
(who never really was a night owl, and gets kinda foggy at this time of
night, just in case you were wondering why this makes so little sense).

jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley) wrote:
> Robert, what do you do for a living?  How old are you?   I'm asking because
> I may be able to set up a date between you & "Barb".  

If those are the first two questions "Barb" asks a man, no wonder she's
still single...

Mark

Mark Sobolewski wrote:
> 
> jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley) wrote:
> > Robert, what do you do for a living?  How old are you?   I'm asking because
> > I may be able to set up a date between you & "Barb".
> 
> If those are the first two questions "Barb" asks a man, no wonder she's
> still single...
> 
> Mark



Mark, being single is not a punishment or disgraceful or a hardship of 
any kind.  I know we are programmed to want to propagate but some of us 
have learned, with out big brains, how not to because we don't feel the 
need to -- there are enough folks in this world mindlessly popping out 
kids galore to insure the human race continues.  Being single doesn't 
mean being alone, or lonely, anymore than being "mated" means you never 
get lonely or are alone.  And, as hard as it may seem to you, some women 
actually choose to remain single -- which doesn't mean we don't have 
people who love us and enjoy our company and are in our lives constantly 
and make love with us and share our time here on earth.

[note followups set to just the singles groups from the earlier post]

Mark Sobolewski <mark@flashpoint.com> wrote:
>jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley) wrote:
>> Robert, what do you do for a living?  How old are you?   I'm asking because
>> I may be able to set up a date between you & "Barb".  
>
>If those are the first two questions "Barb" asks a man, no wonder she's
>still single...
>

OK, Mark, you've inspired a new thread.

For Mark specifically, and anyone else who cares to answer:

What are the first two questions *you* would ask a third party
(e.g. a mutual acquaintance) about someone you might be interested
in meeting?



	Bob O`Bob
--

> : Bogbody <bogbody@aol.com> wrote:
> : >I, too, am impressed when I hear that a man has a nice car or owns his own
> : >house. I am not overly impressed when I hear that a man lives with five
> : >roommates in a run-down flat and rides a second-hand scooter. As several
> : >women have pointed out, however, it is not the WEALTH that is impressive,
> : >it is the indication that the man is a responsible, stable adult. If
> : >wealth were the issue, then I would be impressed by men who drive Ferari's
> : >(spelling, sorry) - as it is, I wouldn't be interested in a man who drove
> : >such a vulgar, flashy thing. If a man is too wealthy, I might become
> : >uneasy. (I'm not sure why.) However, if a man has a NICE car and a DECENT
> : >place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might just
> : >turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very least,
> : >even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that this
> : >guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.
> : 

Hey, I resemble that remark! I live in a *nice* group house and I
drive a '65 Ford Falcon by CHOICE! See, I _enjoy_ messing with that
car on occasion, driving down the highway with my arm on the window,
wind in my hair, playing kooky music on it's 8-track player. I wear
thrift shop clothes on occasion, jeans & t-shirts, and Converse All-
Stars, but I also look damn fine in a suit. 

Oh, but this all demonstrates my lack of responsibility!?! Never mind
that I'm saving to start a business, saving for my retirement NOW,
saving for my future family if I have one, saving for my real passions
like travelling and music. It's the 'look' that matters!

I have a good job with good pay that've I've been working for 5 years.
Everyone I know with children tells me I'm great with kids. I cook I
clean I sew. I can cut a rug, understand opera, speak furrin' languages,
mix a mean martini and play Devil's Advocate with the best of 'em. But
the fact that I paid $400 for my car, fixed it up, have driven it
EVERY DAY for almost 3 years and sock away the $200/month I COULD
be spending on a generic rice rocket "proves" I'm unstable? Boo hoo,
I thought it proved I had my priorities straight. 

I and many young men like me are in a state of flux. I want to find
the right person and settle down, but I don't know where I want that
to be yet. So why buy a house? If I save money now on cars and clothes
and mortgages I'll have that much more to start a family off right. If
I found Ms Right in a far off city, I could pack up my stuff in a 
small van and bring my friggin' Bank Account with me! So don't judge
a book by it's cover!

-- 
cheers,

Brendan Perry

B David < bruce@lee.house.gov, bbows@hr.house.gov> wrote:

Okay folks, why not cross post to comp.lang.c while you're at it or
alt.hairy.ass or spam all of the newsgroups in the world.

[followups set to talk.origins where I read this.]


Richard Harter at cri@tiac.net | All staff happy and working hard
The Concord Research Institute | All projects under control
http://www.tiac.net/users/cri  | All deadlines being met
1-508-369-3911                 | All pigs fed and ready to fly

perry@lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brendan Perry) wrote:

>> : Bogbody <bogbody@aol.com> wrote:
>> : >I, too, am impressed when I hear that a man has a nice car or owns his own
>> : >house. I am not overly impressed when I hear that a man lives with five
>> : >roommates in a run-down flat and rides a second-hand scooter. As several
>> : >women have pointed out, however, it is not the WEALTH that is impressive,
>> : >it is the indication that the man is a responsible, stable adult. If
>> : >wealth were the issue, then I would be impressed by men who drive Ferari's
>> : >(spelling, sorry) - as it is, I wouldn't be interested in a man who drove
>> : >such a vulgar, flashy thing. If a man is too wealthy, I might become
>> : >uneasy. (I'm not sure why.) However, if a man has a NICE car and a DECENT
>> : >place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might just
>> : >turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very least,
>> : >even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that this
>> : >guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.
>> : 

>Hey, I resemble that remark! I live in a *nice* group house and I
>drive a '65 Ford Falcon by CHOICE! See, I _enjoy_ messing with that
>car on occasion, driving down the highway with my arm on the window,
>wind in my hair, playing kooky music on it's 8-track player. I wear
>thrift shop clothes on occasion, jeans & t-shirts, and Converse All-
>Stars, but I also look damn fine in a suit. 

>Oh, but this all demonstrates my lack of responsibility!?! Never mind
>that I'm saving to start a business, saving for my retirement NOW,
>saving for my future family if I have one, saving for my real passions
>like travelling and music. It's the 'look' that matters!

>I have a good job with good pay that've I've been working for 5 years.
>Everyone I know with children tells me I'm great with kids. I cook I
>clean I sew. I can cut a rug, understand opera, speak furrin' languages,
>mix a mean martini and play Devil's Advocate with the best of 'em. But
>the fact that I paid $400 for my car, fixed it up, have driven it
>EVERY DAY for almost 3 years and sock away the $200/month I COULD
>be spending on a generic rice rocket "proves" I'm unstable? Boo hoo,
>I thought it proved I had my priorities straight. 

>I and many young men like me are in a state of flux. I want to find
>the right person and settle down, but I don't know where I want that
>to be yet. So why buy a house? If I save money now on cars and clothes
>and mortgages I'll have that much more to start a family off right. If
>I found Ms Right in a far off city, I could pack up my stuff in a 
>small van and bring my friggin' Bank Account with me! So don't judge
>a book by it's cover!

>-- 
>cheers,

>Brendan Perry

Hey, Brendan: got any gifs of that Falcon?

_____________________________________________________________________________
|Respectfully, Sheila          ~~~Word Warrior~~~         green@pipeline.com|
|Obligatory tribute to the founding fathers of the United States of America:|
| This is not to be read by anyone under 18 years of age, who should read up|
| on history and the First Amendment to the Constitution, as an alternative.|
| *Animals, including humans, fart, piss, shit, masturbate, fuck and abort.*|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 However, if a man has a NICE car and a DECENT
>>>place to live, then my weird female instincts say "Ah! Now, he might
just
>>>turn out to be a wonderful father for my children." At the very
least,
>>>even if I'm not looking to have babies, I still feel re-assured that
this
>>>guy might not be the type to borrow money and be flighty.
>>

    There is something scary about the way a woman lays in waiting,
spining a web, like a predatory spider. Who else but a pasive predator
will weight my value according to some future plan for MY LIFE. It
seems a man is being valued solely as a tool of this already completed
vision. The man is not a participant, but a mere provider for the
accomplisment of some dream that was formed previously even to his
selection, totally in his absence. This women have decided long
ago(possibly with the help of their mothers) how our life is going to
be shaped. By doing this they(unbecomingly) are an important element in
the repressive regulatory side of western society.
    It is troubling how little self-criticism some woman may have. A
real gentleman on the other hand, is always sensitive to the needs of
others.

(snipped to include what Bruce@lee.house.gov posted to my comments)

In <4nqoll$cpm@neon.house.gov> B David < bruce@lee.house.gov,
bbows@hr.house.gov> writes: 
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>---------------------------------226462360129028
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> 
>betzl@ix.netcom.com(Jennifer R Lind ) wrote:
> 
>>This is so true.  I do like a man who owns a home or even rents his
own
>>apt.  This is because I take care of myself and I like to know a man
>>can take care of himself. 
> 
>This may sound very insightful. Do you know that sometimes 
>very bad things must be done in order to own a home or rent 
>an apt ???  As a result, you must not be suprised if you find 
>yourself in a bad relationship with a man who owns a home or 
>rents and apt. 

I will admit however that the last guy I dated did own a home and he
was the most irresponsible guy I ever met.  He didn't take care of his
house, his yard or pay any of his bills on time.

>
>>
>>I've been involved with men who hadn't left home yet and I won't get
>>involved with them because they don't know how to be responsible.  
>
>You base his responsibility upon his living at home (and saving,
>what, $400 - $900 dollars a month) ???

As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I went
out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
> 

>>Jen

Jennifer R Lind (betzl@ix.netcom.com) wrote:


: I will admit however that the last guy I dated did own a home and he
: was the most irresponsible guy I ever met.  He didn't take care of his
: house, his yard or pay any of his bills on time.

: >
: >>
: >>I've been involved with men who hadn't left home yet and I won't get
: >>involved with them because they don't know how to be responsible.  
: >
: >You base his responsibility upon his living at home (and saving,
: >what, $400 - $900 dollars a month) ???

: As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
: responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
: responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I went
: out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
: how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
: cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
: take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
: lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
: > 

: >>Jen

	could you list the things that a man suppose to do to be
	considered as a responsible man? or maybe list the things
	that a woman should do as a wife?

	one question for your men out there, how many times that your
	partner initiate sex? and how many times you have to beg for 
	it? the successful rate, or the unsuccessful rate, please.

In article <4nv4l6$b86@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> yng@firefly.prairienet.org (Y Ng) writes:
>
>Jennifer R Lind (betzl@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>
>: I will admit however that the last guy I dated did own a home and he
>: was the most irresponsible guy I ever met.  He didn't take care of his
>: house, his yard or pay any of his bills on time.
>
>: >
>: >>
>: >>I've been involved with men who hadn't left home yet and I won't get
>: >>involved with them because they don't know how to be responsible.  
>: >
>: >You base his responsibility upon his living at home (and saving,
>: >what, $400 - $900 dollars a month) ???
>
>: As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
>: responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
>: responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I went
>: out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
>: how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
>: cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
>: take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
>: lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
>: > 
>
>: >>Jen
>
>	could you list the things that a man suppose to do to be
>	considered as a responsible man? or maybe list the things
>	that a woman should do as a wife?
>
>	one question for your men out there, how many times that your
>	partner initiate sex? and how many times you have to beg for 
>	it? the successful rate, or the unsuccessful rate, please.
 
And while you're at it could you describe in detail the actual act
so that we can make an informed determination as to whether it's better
when the man initiates or the woman.  

-- 
John Fereira
fereira@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY

In <4nu2jj$mon@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> betzl@ix.netcom.com(Jennifer R
Lind ) writes: 
 t, $400 - $900 dollars a month) ???
>
>As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
>responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
>responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I
went
>out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
>how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
>cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
>take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
>lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
>> 
>
>>>Jen
>

A son is a son until he gets a wife,
but a daughter is a daughter forever!

Old American Proverb

Simbah

Jennifer R Lind wrote:
- 
- In <4o2c2d$9gg@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> rusti@ix.netcom.com(RUSS
- RODRIGUEZ) writes:
- >
- >A son is a son until he gets a wife,
- >but a daughter is a daughter forever!
- >
- >Old American Proverb
- >
- >Simbah
- 
- Can someone please tell me how this ties into my above comments.

Can someone please tell me how this ties into talk.origins?

t.o. removed, as well as a host of other groups,
soc.culture.african.american being listed twice.

Chris Carrell

In article <4nviv4$ck5@transfer.stratus.com>, fereira@isis.com (John Fereira) says:
>
>In article <4nv4l6$b86@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> yng@firefly.prairienet.org (Y Ng) writes:
>>
>>Jennifer R Lind (betzl@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>
>>
>>: I will admit however that the last guy I dated did own a home and he

>>: As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
>>: responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
>>: responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I went
>>: out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
>>: how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
>>: cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
>>: take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
>>: lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
>>: 
I rent a small house from my betters, but it still somewhat comes to
the same thing 'living at home'.  And much as I hate to admit it,
I am afraid your right on this one.  Although I pretty much run my
little place as an independent entity now, for a long time 'ol Ma
and Pa wanted to keep taking care of me like I was a teenager.  [I'm
the youngest in the family-*danger danger danger*]
This made my own responsibility a bit slow in coming.

Usually the old folks wanna keep there last lil' darling around for ever,
even though the do it subconciously.  Always finding reasons why 'junior'
should stick around.  And often these reasons are very *good* reasons,
at least financially...except junior, already being the youngest and
not having had to carry quite as responsibility as his/her senior
siblings, is still kept from learning the full rigors of independent
life...
>>: >>Jen
>>
>>       could you list the things that a man suppose to do to be
>>       considered as a responsible man? or maybe list the things
>>       that a woman should do as a wife?
>>
>>       one question for your men out there, how many times that your
>>       partner initiate sex? and how many times you have to beg for 
>>       it? the successful rate, or the unsuccessful rate, please.
> 
>And while you're at it could you describe in detail the actual act
>so that we can make an informed determination as to whether it's better
>when the man initiates or the woman.  
>
>-- 
>John Fereira
>fereira@isis.com
>Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY

On behalf of Grolm everywhere,
We of the Grolm pack give you the standard farewell
and blessing:
--------------------------------------------------------
We already know what the d*mn grolm have to say, now tell
the buggers to keep their beaks shut!
--------------------------------------------------------
Just call me a pchyzophrenic self-flaming grolm :)

On 23 May 1996, Geryon wrote:
> I rent a small house from my betters, but it still somewhat comes to
> the same thing 'living at home'.  And much as I hate to admit it,
> I am afraid your right on this one.  Although I pretty much run my
> little place as an independent entity now, for a long time 'ol Ma
> and Pa wanted to keep taking care of me like I was a teenager.  [I'm
> the youngest in the family-*danger danger danger*]
> This made my own responsibility a bit slow in coming.
> 
> Usually the old folks wanna keep there last lil' darling around for ever,
> even though the do it subconciously.  Always finding reasons why 'junior'
> should stick around.  And often these reasons are very *good* reasons,
> at least financially...except junior, already being the youngest and
> not having had to carry quite as responsibility as his/her senior
> siblings, is still kept from learning the full rigors of independent
> life...

Um. Not necessarily. I moved out at age 22, travelled 500 miles away to my
new job, supported both myself and the guy I was with, and never went back
home. I bought a house at age 26 and was STILL the main income. 

Sometimes the youngest (of 4, in my case) is really royally sick of having
people try to run his/her life. And I am glad I did. I don't have the 
built-in social fallback of having my family in the area. But I can look 
down and see my feet under me.

I think we've regressed evolutionarily. Birds have no trouble denesting 
their young. That old clawed foot on the butt trick - works every time. 
Much better for the young than wrapping them in cotton (or duct tape).

--L

>fereira@isis.com (John Fereira) wrote:

>In article <4nv4l6$b86@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> yng@firefly.prairienet.org (Y Ng) writes:
>>
>>Jennifer R Lind (betzl@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>
>>
>>: I will admit however that the last guy I dated did own a home and he
>>: was the most irresponsible guy I ever met.  He didn't take care of his
>>: house, his yard or pay any of his bills on time.
>>
>>: >
>>: >>
>>: >>I've been involved with men who hadn't left home yet and I won't get
>>: >>involved with them because they don't know how to be responsible.  
>>: >
>>: >You base his responsibility upon his living at home (and saving,
>>: >what, $400 - $900 dollars a month) ???
>>
>>: As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
>>: responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
>>: responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I went
>>: out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
>>: how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
>>: cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
>>: take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
>>: lived with and I'm not doing it again.   

You're absolute correct here.  Owning any thing, home, business, Prosche,
Ferrari doesn't mean responsibility.  It only means the guy know how
to make the $$$$$$$$!
>>: > 
>>
>>: >>Jen
>>
>>	could you list the things that a man suppose to do to be
>>	considered as a responsible man? or maybe list the things
>>	that a woman should do as a wife?
>>
>>	one question for your men out there, how many times that your
>>	partner initiate sex? and how many times you have to beg for 
>>	it? the successful rate, or the unsuccessful rate, please.
> 
>And while you're at it could you describe in detail the actual act
>so that we can make an informed determination as to whether it's better
>when the man initiates or the woman.  

No need to go into detail, unless all involving parties wanted to.
Some netters might object and cry foul here. (I don't care. I can talk
about anything. )

It's perfectly okay that either the male or the female to initiate sex.
I believe either side should try to initiate sex if / when he/she feels
the needs to have it. And the other side should try to accommodate
whenever it is possible. 

I believe some do, but please don't use sex as a weapon to get 
what you want; or you'll be degrading yourself to street walkers' level!


Alex Lam.
>-- 
>John Fereira
>fereira@isis.com
>Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY


--
//Alex Lam's Virtual Studio.  http://www.alexlam.com/users/lampas/ 
// U.S. Air Power :  http://www.alexlam.com/users/lampas/airpower.htm/
// Looking for original art, story, etc to be published on my web site.
// Please reply by email to <lampas@alexlam.com> if interested. 
//Think For Yourself.Question Authority(T. Leary)-Give Peace A Chance.(J. Lennon)//
 

Alex Lam (lampas@alexlam.com) wrote:

: It's perfectly okay that either the male or the female to initiate sex.
: I believe either side should try to initiate sex if / when he/she feels
: the needs to have it. And the other side should try to accommodate
: whenever it is possible. 


	alex, you must be a regular reader of Ann Landers or watching
	too many infor-mercial TV on how to make a marriage like second
	honeymoon. did you spend $29.99 on those tapes? :) try to put
	the theory into practice is a different story. i do hope you
	will find your self a dream mate who will accommodate your
	sexual needs whenever possible. keep dreaming!!!!
	when you become old and unable to erect and she wants three
	times a day, can you accommodate?


: I believe some do, but please don't use sex as a weapon to get 
: what you want; or you'll be degrading yourself to street walkers' level!

	by the way, if you don't get it, do you masturbate?
	would the partner feel offended?  i hope Joan would answer
	this question.


: Alex Lam.

>I and many young men like me are in a state of flux. I want to find
>the right person and settle down, but I don't know where I want that
>to be yet. 
>
>Brendan Perry

    Stop dreaming immediately Brendam, she gets very upset when people
refuse to fit the mold.(Unconventional people threaten the mental peace
of insecure humans with limited intelligence)

RUSS RODRIGUEZ (rusti@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: In <4nu2jj$mon@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> betzl@ix.netcom.com(Jennifer R
: Lind ) writes: 

I'm leaving in Jenny Lind's attribution line just to piss her off.

Hope it works.

: A son is a son until he gets a wife,
: but a daughter is a daughter forever!

A son is a son until he takes a wife,
But a daughter's a daughter for all of her life.

: Old American Proverb

American provebs rhyme.

Silly rule, I know, but there you have it.

-rw

>yng@firefly.prairienet.org (Y Ng) wrote:

>:Alex Lam (lampas@alexlam.com) wrote:

>: It's perfectly okay that either the male or the female to initiate sex.
>: I believe either side should try to initiate sex if / when he/she feels
>: the needs to have it. And the other side should try to accommodate
>: whenever it is possible. 


>	alex, you must be a regular reader of Ann Landers or watching
>	too many infor-mercial TV on how to make a marriage like second
>	honeymoon. did you spend $29.99 on those tapes? :) try to put
>	the theory into practice is a different story. i do hope you
>	will find your self a dream mate who will accommodate your
>	sexual needs whenever possible. keep dreaming!!!!
>	when you become old and unable to erect and she wants three
>	times a day, can you accommodate?

I do not process, or have seen any of the video tape you mentioned. 
In fact, I don't even know who Ann Landers is! No, I don't watch that
much t.v.

I understand that it's not always possible to get it everytime you want it.
But, it doesn't mean it is impossible either. No, I'm not dreaming. But it
doesn't hurt to try either ! As long as either one of the partner does not
turning down the request/initiation on a regular basis, then I think they'll
be alright afterall.

Sorry. I'm not that old yet ! : )

It's all up to the involving parties.  It's entirely THEIRS decision in
how to approach sex.  But either gender do the initiation should be
fine.

When you get older, and when physical ability is becoming an issue,
then the couple SHOULD work out other means to satisfy the other
partner.  Again, they should both do fine IF they are both open minded
people, and are willing to try alternative means.

>: I believe some do, but please don't use sex as a weapon to get 
>: what you want; or you'll be degrading yourself to street walkers' level!

>	by the way, if you don't get it, do you masturbate?
>	would the partner feel offended?  i hope Joan would answer
>	this question.

I haven't encounter this problem yet.  
But I'll let you know when I do.

Hey Joan.  Where are you? : )
We need your med opinion here!

Alex Lam.
>: Alex Lam.




--
//Alex Lam's Virtual Studio.  http://www.alexlam.com/users/lampas/ 
// U.S. Air Power :  http://www.alexlam.com/users/lampas/airpower.htm/
// Looking for original art, story, etc to be published on my web site.
// Please reply by email to <lampas@alexlam.com> if interested. 
//Think For Yourself.Question Authority(T. Leary)-Give Peace A Chance.(J. Lennon)//
 

In <4o2c2d$9gg@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> rusti@ix.netcom.com(RUSS
RODRIGUEZ) writes: 
>
>In <4nu2jj$mon@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> betzl@ix.netcom.com(Jennifer R
>Lind ) writes: 
> t, $400 - $900 dollars a month) ???
>>
>>As I just said above, owning a house doesn't mean someone is
>>responsible, so yes I am changing my view here.  There is more to
>>responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I
>went
>>out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
>>how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
>>cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
>>take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
>>lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
>>> 
>>
>>>>Jen
>>
>
>A son is a son until he gets a wife,
>but a daughter is a daughter forever!
>
>Old American Proverb
>
>Simbah

Can someone please tell me how this ties into my above comments.

Jen

On 1996 May 23 Thursday, RUSS RODRIGUEZ wrote...
: In <4nu2jj$mon@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> betzl@ix.netcom.com(Jennifer R
: Lind ) writes: 
: >responsibilty than saving money though.  The proble with the men I
: went
: >out with is that since they never lived on there own they didn't know
: >how to take care of themselves.  Mother did laundry, bought food,
: >cooked, etc.  When I get married I'm not going to work full time and
: >take care of the house.  I already played that game with one guy I
: >lived with and I'm not doing it again.   
: >> 
: >
: >>>Jen

More proof that women are not good at parenting. Their inability to teach 
boys self-esteem, self-sufficience, plus their brainwashing of boys into 
believing they have to subordinate their needs to the needs of women,
have thoroughly damaged their self-esteem. Mothers' strong tendency to
smother and cling to male offspring stifles the males ability to seperate
and develop a sense of independence.

... and that folks is why this country is in such DEEP trouble: When 
someone comes on the net and says they do no know who Ann Landers is, 
it says they do not read very much. While I hardly ever read her ADVICE
COLUMM [that is for clueless Alex], even I know who she is. For Alex: 
pick up almost any newspaper, and you will find her advice column in it 
-- and if not hers, then her SISTER'S -- "DEAR ABBY".
-- 

Robert H Ruskin (ruskinr@aruba.ccit.arizona.edu) wrote:
" ... and that folks is why this country is in such DEEP trouble: When 
" someone comes on the net and says they do no know who Ann Landers is, 
" it says they do not read very much.

You can read a lot and still do not know who Ann Landers is. It's just
that what one reads is more valuable than the pathetic newspapers sold
in large numbers in this country, as you put it.

If someone had predicted to me that I was going to see Ann Landers
used as a gauge for reading levels I would have thought it a joke.

" While I hardly ever read her ADVICE
" COLUMM [that is for clueless Alex], even I know who she is.

Congratulations...

ruskinr@aruba.ccit.arizona.edu (Robert H Ruskin) wrote:
>... and that folks is why this country is in such DEEP trouble: When 
>someone comes on the net and says they do no know who Ann Landers is, 
>it says they do not read very much. While I hardly ever read her ADVICE

No, it says that they do not read the newspaer very much. I cannot blame 
them. The mass-media has become a corporate and govermental device used 
to color peoples beliefs. I do not feel that the information that I get 
from a newspaper is consistantly accurate, or unbiased. I also feel that 
they are a waste of paper. I would rather get my news from other sources.

And there are times... that I'd really rather not know.

On the other hand, I have a rather extensive library for someone of my 
age, and tend to read *something* each and every day.

Bright Blessings,
Scire

In <4o53au$a4c@explorer.csc.com> rwillia2@csc.com (Ross Williams)
writes: 
>
>RUSS RODRIGUEZ (rusti@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: In <4nu2jj$mon@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> betzl@ix.netcom.com(Jennifer
R
>: Lind ) writes: 
>
>I'm leaving in Jenny Lind's attribution line just to piss her off.
>
>Hope it works.

Hey Russ, it might have worked if I was the one who posted that. 
Someone else had posted that after I had posted a comment about momma's
boys expecting there wives to do all the work.  My question to the
poster was how does that tie into what I wrote.

Nice try though, you get an F for failed attemt.

Jen
>
>: A son is a son until he gets a wife,
>: but a daughter is a daughter forever!
>
>A son is a son until he takes a wife,
>But a daughter's a daughter for all of her life.
>
>: Old American Proverb
>
>American provebs rhyme.
>
>Silly rule, I know, but there you have it.
>
>-rw

> > Robert, what do you do for a living?  How old are you?   I'm asking because
> > I may be able to set up a date between you & "Barb".  

> If those are the first two questions "Barb" asks a man, no wonder she's
> still single...
> 
> Mark

but you know when I'm flustered, those are the only two questions I can answer.

-- 
"More and more these days, I find myself getting all choked up over a 
beautifully photographed and edited vignette about the meaning of life 
and love, and it turns out to be a pitch for Doritos." - Gary Kamiya
Allan Bonadio         bonadio@well.com

phyllosophy (mcps@grayfox.svs.com) wrote:
: In article <01bb4a14.065d4dc0$07ee2599@andover.earthlink.net>, yoipu
: <yoipu@pipe.net> wrote:

: > More proof that women are not good at parenting. Their inability to teach 
: > boys self-esteem, self-sufficience, plus their brainwashing of boys into 
: > believing they have to subordinate their needs to the needs of women,
: > have thoroughly damaged their self-esteem. Mothers' strong tendency to
: > smother and cling to male offspring stifles the males ability to seperate
: > and develop a sense of independence.

: 'Proof' that mothers as a whole suck?  Doesn't bode well for the human
: race.  Or could you overgeneralizing just a tad?  You evidently have some
: unresolved issues with your mom.  I suggest you write to Ann Landers
: immediately so that she can advise you to seek therapy.  I would, but
: that's not my place.  I prefer to let men run their own lives, like some
: women actually do.

But that's just a cop-out. You put all the burden for living one's life
on one's own shoulders.

That is NOT, my friend, Government's Way.

1) All that one is unable to do is someone else's fault.

2) If you can prove (1) above, you should get government assistance or
at least your own show.

What are you, some kind of <fill in group criteria>-ist?

GMS
http://www.svs.com/users/gmark