🚀 go-pugleaf

I think you were supposed to exchange it for a good one not get your money back.

 
> Worked on it all weekend, and part of last week and couldn't make it
> work. After numerous calls to both the original manufacturer and
> CompUSA support, I finally gave up. The manufacturer concluded that
> one or more of the parts were failing, and suggested I take it back to
> the store.
>

NoSpam@Antartica.net <NoSpam@Antartica.net> wrote in misc.consumers:


>When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
>boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
>to do the math. 
>
>How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
>defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.


The 15% "box opened" fee is not unreasonable if the customer has 
simply changed her mind and doesn't want the item. Did you make it 
clear that you were returning it because it had never worked?

There's no justification at all for charging you to make the 
exchange. Go back and insist on talking to the manager.

Unless of course you didn't try to make an exchange but demanded a 
refund. If you did demand a straight return, you are in the position 
of the customer who merely changed her mind. It's maybe not very 
customer-friendly to charge the fee in that case, but it's not 
legally unreasonable.

[Followups directed to misc.consumers. Crossposting to lots of 
newsgroups is generally a bad idea.]

-- 
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
                                   http://oakroadsystems.com

<NoSpam@Antartica.net> wrote in message
news:3ccce709.59073152@news.easynews.com...
> Last week, I purchased a wireless Ethernet kit from CompUSA here in
> Redlands, Calif, for a total of approximately $280.
>
> This is a rather high price since the same kit goes for about $200
> from online stores. However, I didn't want to wait for shipping, so I
> just drove to my local CompUSA and got it there.
>
> Worked on it all weekend, and part of last week and couldn't make it
> work. After numerous calls to both the original manufacturer and
> CompUSA support, I finally gave up. The manufacturer concluded that
> one or more of the parts were failing, and suggested I take it back to
> the store.
>
> When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> to do the math.
>
> How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.

Wow! Did you talk with a manager? I have been doing business with a
variety of CompUSA stores in the Philadelphia area for many years. I
return an average of one or two items a year there and not once have I
ever received a hassle with a return or been charged a restocking fee.
For example, three months ago, I returned an opened printer that just
did not work. I didn't even pack up the printer properly. I just dumped
the pieces in the original box, presented my receipt and ask for a return
and told the clerk it did not work. Fine, no problem.

About a year ago, I bought at Netgear cable modem router. It would
not work with both my computers; only one. After 12 weeks, I finally
got around to returning it. I got my $120 back, turned around and bought
a Linksys router from CompUSA on that same visit. I then found the
same router at Best Buy for $20 less so I returned the router an hour
later to CompUSA and they cheerfully returned my cash, no problem.

<NoSpam@Antartica.net> wrote in message
news:3ccce709.59073152@news.easynews.com...
> Last week, I purchased a wireless Ethernet kit from CompUSA here in
> Redlands, Calif, for a total of approximately $280.
>
> This is a rather high price since the same kit goes for about $200
> from online stores. However, I didn't want to wait for shipping, so I
> just drove to my local CompUSA and got it there.
>
> Worked on it all weekend, and part of last week and couldn't make it
> work. After numerous calls to both the original manufacturer and
> CompUSA support, I finally gave up. The manufacturer concluded that
> one or more of the parts were failing, and suggested I take it back to
> the store.
>
> When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> to do the math.
>
> How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>
> Needless to say, I will not be setting foot in another CompUSA, if
> it's the last computer store on Earth.
>
> Buyer beware!! I feel sorry for anyone who buys a high-end piece of
> equipment and then decides to return it.
>
> Signed: Raped in Redlands

      I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said that
the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue a
credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
refused because she would not give out her last name.
     I found some lacky near the back of the store where the offices were. I
asked him to please go find the manager and tell him that I am a disatisfied
customer and that I will be waiting for the manager at the front of the
store. That the manage will know who I am because I will be standing on top
of the counter at the return counter. Some customers looked at me and
wouldn't make eye contact. All employees behind the counter scooted away.
Some customers smiled at me and figured I was a disatisfied customer and
gave me a thumbs up. In no time the manager was at the counter writing about
my credit and signing his name and printing it out since I could not read
his signature.

Remember a few short years ago when CrampUSA went bankrupt?

It was bought by the Mexican company that operates the Mexican telephone
network -- Telefonicos de Mexico.

Even though It made for a good fit, you still don't get refried beans with
your bend-over job.
--
Steve
www.ApacheTrail.com
Mesa, AZ
(remove -scalp-the-spammers- to reply)



<NoSpam@Antartica.net> wrote in message
news:3ccce709.59073152@news.easynews.com...
: Last week, I purchased a wireless Ethernet kit from CompUSA here in
: Redlands, Calif, for a total of approximately $280.
<snip>
: When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
: boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
: to do the math.
:
: How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
: defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
:
: Needless to say, I will not be setting foot in another CompUSA, if
: it's the last computer store on Earth.
:
: Buyer beware!! I feel sorry for anyone who buys a high-end piece of
: equipment and then decides to return it.
:
: Signed: Raped in Redlands

Rancy Snyder wrote:


> asked him to please go find the manager and tell him that I am a
> disatisfied customer and that I will be waiting for the manager at the
> front of the store. That the manage will know who I am because I will be
> standing on top of the counter at the return counter. Some customers
> looked at me and wouldn't make eye contact. All employees behind the
> counter scooted away. Some customers smiled at me and figured I was a
> disatisfied customer and gave me a thumbs up. In no time the manager was
> at the counter writing about my credit and signing his name and printing
> it out since I could not read his signature.

Did you actually stand on the counter?? I would love to have seen that! 
heheh
I am sometimes tempted to take a large hat with me when I go shopping, and 
have several signs to stick in the top - "Irate customer", "waiting for 
help", "need manager", etc.. :) 

-- 
This email address is a spam dump.

rubbishbin wrote:
> 
> I am sometimes tempted to take a large hat with me when I go shopping, and
> have several signs to stick in the top - "Irate customer", "waiting for
> help", "need manager", etc.. :)

LOL!  Great idea!  

Of course, since this CompUSA you would be expected to have some sort of
electronic sign on the hat that you programmed yourself ....

Just wondering, what does this have to do with your house,
or your homeowner's association ???  Could you please 
explain that???

A lot of places charge a fee, nowadays, when you simply return
an electronic item.  More typically, one OPENS THE BOX and finds 
the item to be defective, they return for it NEW ONE; not a refund.  
The fee, really relates to something more like a "rental fee"
since places like CompUSA are faced with a lot of people who
buy something just to use for a few days, and planned all along
to return it back when done.

BTW, I can say that with over 20 years of PC hardware experience,
installing my wireless 802.11b stuff was the most difficult and
challenging thing I had to do.  I, too, was sure it was defective,
but I took a break, a deep breath, thought about it a bit, and
was able to get it to work OK the next day. 

This also makes me wonder why you didn't bother to ask for help
in one of the other, more appropriate for 802.11b, newsgroups???

NoSpam@Antartica.net wrote:
> 
> When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> to do the math.
> 
> How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.

Walt wrote:
> 
> Just wondering, what does this have to do with your house,
> or your homeowner's association ???  Could you please
> explain that???
> 
> A lot of places charge a fee, nowadays, when you simply return
> an electronic item.  More typically, one OPENS THE BOX and finds
> the item to be defective, they return for it NEW ONE; not a refund.
> The fee, really relates to something more like a "rental fee"
> since places like CompUSA are faced with a lot of people who
> buy something just to use for a few days, and planned all along
> to return it back when done.

Agreed, which is why even stores that don't typically charge a
restocking fee do for items such as laptops (of if they do not,
they have stricter time frames for them).

> BTW, I can say that with over 20 years of PC hardware experience,
> installing my wireless 802.11b stuff was the most difficult and
> challenging thing I had to do.  I, too, was sure it was defective,
> but I took a break, a deep breath, thought about it a bit, and
> was able to get it to work OK the next day.

I was going to say that I installed my wireless network without
problems, but then I remembered back to the hassles I had and I
have to agree with you. However, in this case he did appear to
have the word of the manufacturer saying that something appeared
to be wrong and that he should exchange it.
 
> This also makes me wonder why you didn't bother to ask for help
> in one of the other, more appropriate for 802.11b, newsgroups???

Well, that is easy. This is a consumer issue! Lots of people
seem to think that any appliance, computer, etc., problem they
have belongs in the consumer newsgroups because it's all about
stuff you bought. Never mind that you'd have a good chance of
actually SOLVING your technical problem if you asked in a
computer group. That is obviously why the homeowner association
newsgroup was included, because it starts with misc.consumers.

The whole problem here is that the original poster does not
understand the difference between an exchange and a refund.
Unless he was convinced that a second item would not work
because the first one didn't, he should not be getting a refund.

Bill
 
> NoSpam@Antartica.net wrote:
> >
> > When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> > boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> > to do the math.
> >
> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.

I don't like CompUSA's return fee too, but it's their
policy so you can't really complain.

Personally, due to CompUSA's return fee, I hardly buy
anything from them (and there's a store about 300 yards
from where I live).  It's a sad store, hardly shoppers
in it (must be their return policy :)

Here's my set of rules:
1. Buy things from cheapest store that does not
   charge for returns.
2. If a return-fee store (e.g. CompUSA) sells the
   same item at >=20% cheaper than the no-return-fee
   stores, I'd return the item to the no-return-fee
   store and buy it from the return-fee store.
3. If the return-fee store sells the same item at
   less than 20% of my purchase price, I go back to
   the no-return-fee store and ask for a price match.

This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
a return fee.

However, I live in silicon valley where there are
many no-return-fee stores that is also cheap.

Walt wrote:
> A lot of places charge a fee, nowadays, when you simply return
> an electronic item.  More typically, one OPENS THE BOX and finds

More typically, one sees something interesting, but don't know
if he/she will find it useful (ok, to each his/her own frugal
definition) and buys the item.  So he/she buys it to try it
out.

> the item to be defective, they return for it NEW ONE; not a refund.
> The fee, really relates to something more like a "rental fee"
> since places like CompUSA are faced with a lot of people who
> buy something just to use for a few days, and planned all along
> to return it back when done.

Yes, that's a problem.  Walmart and Kmart (I sure wish they stay
around) probably shouldn't let people return items for the same
reasons.

I mean, is there really a car dealer that lets you return?

Seriously, its a shame for stores to charge a return fee w/o
lowering prices... like CompUSA.

> BTW, I can say that with over 20 years of PC hardware experience,
> installing my wireless 802.11b stuff was the most difficult and
> challenging thing I had to do.  I, too, was sure it was defective,
> but I took a break, a deep breath, thought about it a bit, and
> was able to get it to work OK the next day.
> 
> This also makes me wonder why you didn't bother to ask for help
> in one of the other, more appropriate for 802.11b, newsgroups???

Hmm, installing my 802.11b took less then 1 hour.  I powered
up the Linksys router+wireless access point thing and plugged
in the SMC PC card, and everything just worked.  Then I crossed
my fingers and enabled WIP... and everything still worked fine.
(I was a bit concerned about buying 2 different brands since
when WiFi first came out nobody would work w/ nobody else's.)

> > When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> > boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> > to do the math.
> >
> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.

I think CompUSA will exchange (for the same item) for free.  So, if
your item is broken, they shouldn't charge you the 15% for an exchange.

Me ? I'd never buy it from CompUSA in the first place, unless they
are way cheaper, which they are not.  In fact, CompUSA around my
house seems to be consistently more expensive than stores that
charge no return fees and selling the same stuff.

I'm always amazed that CompUSA is still in business.

> Me ? I'd never buy it from CompUSA in the first place, unless they
> are way cheaper, which they are not.  In fact, CompUSA around my
> house seems to be consistently more expensive than stores that
> charge no return fees and selling the same stuff.
> 
> I'm always amazed that CompUSA is still in business.

You have to remember that you're in Silicon Valley where computer stores
are on every corner.  Out here, CompUSA is just about the only thing
around.  There are a couple of independent computer stores that are only
open 10-5 M-F, and places like Best Buy and Circuit City that don't
really have much selection.  CompUSA doesn't stay in business by virtue
of being wonderful, they stay in business because they exist in all the
places where there are no other computer stores.  (And no one is exactly
rushing to compete with them here, other than those independents that
shut off the lights at 5 pm).  

Karen

Ching Tai wrote:
> 
> I don't like CompUSA's return fee too, but it's their
> policy so you can't really complain.
> 
> Personally, due to CompUSA's return fee, I hardly buy
> anything from them (and there's a store about 300 yards
> from where I live).  It's a sad store, hardly shoppers
> in it (must be their return policy :)
> 
> Here's my set of rules:
> 1. Buy things from cheapest store that does not
>    charge for returns.
> 2. If a return-fee store (e.g. CompUSA) sells the
>    same item at >=20% cheaper than the no-return-fee
>    stores, I'd return the item to the no-return-fee
>    store and buy it from the return-fee store.
> 3. If the return-fee store sells the same item at
>    less than 20% of my purchase price, I go back to
>    the no-return-fee store and ask for a price match.
> 
> This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> a return fee.
> 
> However, I live in silicon valley where there are
> many no-return-fee stores that is also cheap.

Are you saying that you return opened items to places that don't
charge a restocking fee and buy it at CompUSA or some other
store that DOES charge a restocking fee once you've decided that
you want to keep the item, if they are cheaper? Or am I
misinterpreting your rule #2? I am sure that all of the stores
you grace with your business are so thrilled to have it.

Bill

"Bill Rubin" <billrubin@prodigy.net> wrote

> Are you saying that you return opened items to places that
> don't charge a restocking fee and buy it at CompUSA or
> some other store that DOES charge a restocking fee once
> you've decided that you want to keep the item, if they are
> cheaper?

That is what they said. I certainly hope it's not what they meant...

> I am sure that all of the stores you grace with your business
> are so thrilled to have it.

Well, you see, just like how some people are genetically
predisposed to become alcoholics, some folks are genetically
programmed to be selfish asswipes.

If this is news for you then you're obviously too young to
remember "Reaganomics."

Hi Bill,

Yes, I would return the item to the no-return-fee store and
buy it from CompUSA IFF CompUSA is _way_ cheaper.  _way_
cheaper for me is at least 20% or more off.  Otherwise, I'd
just ask the no-return-fee store to do a price match.

This cost me the same amount of work, since I usually only
find out about CompUSA's price when I'm in their store, and
to do a price match or return, I would have to go back to the
no-return-fee store anyway.

However, because I hardly every go into a CompUSA, I've not
done the above too often.  Last time I did it was w/ a
digital camera where CompUSA was 25% cheaper, but that was
months ago.  (I only went into CompUSA because it was next
to this hair cutting place.)  But, that was an exception,
I'd say 99% of the time, CompUSA is more expensive.

-Ching

Bill Rubin wrote:
> 
> Ching Tai wrote:
> >
> > Here's my set of rules:
> > 1. Buy things from cheapest store that does not
> >    charge for returns.
> > 2. If a return-fee store (e.g. CompUSA) sells the
> >    same item at >=20% cheaper than the no-return-fee
> >    stores, I'd return the item to the no-return-fee
> >    store and buy it from the return-fee store.
> > 3. If the return-fee store sells the same item at
> >    less than 20% of my purchase price, I go back to
> >    the no-return-fee store and ask for a price match.
> >
> > This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> > stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> > go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> > a return fee.
> >
> 
> Are you saying that you return opened items to places that don't
> charge a restocking fee and buy it at CompUSA or some other
> store that DOES charge a restocking fee once you've decided that
> you want to keep the item, if they are cheaper? Or am I
> misinterpreting your rule #2? I am sure that all of the stores
> you grace with your business are so thrilled to have it.
> 
> Bill

> Ching Tai wrote:
> >
> > I don't like CompUSA's return fee too, but it's their
> > policy so you can't really complain.
> >
> > Personally, due to CompUSA's return fee, I hardly buy
> > anything from them (and there's a store about 300 yards
> > from where I live).  It's a sad store, hardly shoppers
> > in it (must be their return policy :)
> >
> > Here's my set of rules:
> > 1. Buy things from cheapest store that does not
> >    charge for returns.
> > 2. If a return-fee store (e.g. CompUSA) sells the
> >    same item at >=20% cheaper than the no-return-fee
> >    stores, I'd return the item to the no-return-fee
> >    store and buy it from the return-fee store.
> > 3. If the return-fee store sells the same item at
> >    less than 20% of my purchase price, I go back to
> >    the no-return-fee store and ask for a price match.
> >
> > This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> > stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> > go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> > a return fee.
> >
> > However, I live in silicon valley where there are
> > many no-return-fee stores that is also cheap.


Are you Robinhood ?

> Ching Tai wrote:
> >
> > I don't like CompUSA's return fee too, but it's their
> > policy so you can't really complain.
> >
> > Personally, due to CompUSA's return fee, I hardly buy
> > anything from them (and there's a store about 300 yards
> > from where I live).  It's a sad store, hardly shoppers
> > in it (must be their return policy :)
> >
> > Here's my set of rules:
> > 1. Buy things from cheapest store that does not
> >    charge for returns.
> > 2. If a return-fee store (e.g. CompUSA) sells the
> >    same item at >=20% cheaper than the no-return-fee
> >    stores, I'd return the item to the no-return-fee
> >    store and buy it from the return-fee store.
> > 3. If the return-fee store sells the same item at
> >    less than 20% of my purchase price, I go back to
> >    the no-return-fee store and ask for a price match.
> >
> > This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> > stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> > go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> > a return fee.
> >
> > However, I live in silicon valley where there are
> > many no-return-fee stores that is also cheap.


Are you Robinhood ?

So you want the store that is being generous and not charging a
restocking fee to give you a free equipment rental so you can
determine if you want it? It's people like you who cause
restocking fees to be implemented in the first place!

Bill

Ching Tai wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Yes, I would return the item to the no-return-fee store and
> buy it from CompUSA IFF CompUSA is _way_ cheaper.  _way_
> cheaper for me is at least 20% or more off.  Otherwise, I'd
> just ask the no-return-fee store to do a price match.
> 
> This cost me the same amount of work, since I usually only
> find out about CompUSA's price when I'm in their store, and
> to do a price match or return, I would have to go back to the
> no-return-fee store anyway.
> 
> However, because I hardly every go into a CompUSA, I've not
> done the above too often.  Last time I did it was w/ a
> digital camera where CompUSA was 25% cheaper, but that was
> months ago.  (I only went into CompUSA because it was next
> to this hair cutting place.)  But, that was an exception,
> I'd say 99% of the time, CompUSA is more expensive.
> 
> -Ching
> 
> Bill Rubin wrote:
> >
> > Ching Tai wrote:
> > >
> > > Here's my set of rules:
> > > 1. Buy things from cheapest store that does not
> > >    charge for returns.
> > > 2. If a return-fee store (e.g. CompUSA) sells the
> > >    same item at >=20% cheaper than the no-return-fee
> > >    stores, I'd return the item to the no-return-fee
> > >    store and buy it from the return-fee store.
> > > 3. If the return-fee store sells the same item at
> > >    less than 20% of my purchase price, I go back to
> > >    the no-return-fee store and ask for a price match.
> > >
> > > This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> > > stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> > > go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> > > a return fee.
> > >
> >
> > Are you saying that you return opened items to places that don't
> > charge a restocking fee and buy it at CompUSA or some other
> > store that DOES charge a restocking fee once you've decided that
> > you want to keep the item, if they are cheaper? Or am I
> > misinterpreting your rule #2? I am sure that all of the stores
> > you grace with your business are so thrilled to have it.
> >
> > Bill

Nice touch to have him write out his name.

"Rancy Snyder" <rancy@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fQTy8.56969$EK.36600363@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
>
> <NoSpam@Antartica.net> wrote in message
> news:3ccce709.59073152@news.easynews.com...
> > Last week, I purchased a wireless Ethernet kit from CompUSA here in
> > Redlands, Calif, for a total of approximately $280.
> >
> > This is a rather high price since the same kit goes for about $200
> > from online stores. However, I didn't want to wait for shipping, so I
> > just drove to my local CompUSA and got it there.
> >
> > Worked on it all weekend, and part of last week and couldn't make it
> > work. After numerous calls to both the original manufacturer and
> > CompUSA support, I finally gave up. The manufacturer concluded that
> > one or more of the parts were failing, and suggested I take it back to
> > the store.
> >
> > When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> > boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> > to do the math.
> >
> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
> >
> > Needless to say, I will not be setting foot in another CompUSA, if
> > it's the last computer store on Earth.
> >
> > Buyer beware!! I feel sorry for anyone who buys a high-end piece of
> > equipment and then decides to return it.
> >
> > Signed: Raped in Redlands
>
>       I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however
they
> would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said that
> the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue a
> credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
> credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
> refused because she would not give out her last name.
>      I found some lacky near the back of the store where the offices were.
I
> asked him to please go find the manager and tell him that I am a
disatisfied
> customer and that I will be waiting for the manager at the front of the
> store. That the manage will know who I am because I will be standing on
top
> of the counter at the return counter. Some customers looked at me and
> wouldn't make eye contact. All employees behind the counter scooted away.
> Some customers smiled at me and figured I was a disatisfied customer and
> gave me a thumbs up. In no time the manager was at the counter writing
about
> my credit and signing his name and printing it out since I could not read
> his signature.
>
>
>
>

On Mon, 6 May 2002 23:18:25 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
<goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
>> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>> >
>>I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
>> would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said that
>> the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue a
>> credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
>> credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
>> refused because she would not give out her last name.

Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.  I bought a printer, asked the
salesperson if I needed a cable, he said I did and handed me a cable
to buy.  Turned out he gave me the wrong cable.  (I hooked up the
printer with another cable from a different store.)

So I took the original cable back.  Counter girl gave me a bitchy hard
time, at first refused to take the return (and I had the original
receipt) because the UPC on the package was ripped from opening the
package, and would not scan.  I suggested she scan a package of the
same product which stood nearby, but NO she insisted she had to scan
*my* package and since it wouldn't scan I could not get my money back.


She then told me I was wrong for having allowed the UPC to be ripped
because it must be preserved for a return and I should know never to
allow the UPC to be ripped.  For cryin' out loud I had the receipt.

Finally a more senior manager came over and told her to just give the
credit to get rid of me.

-v.

v wrote:

> On Mon, 6 May 2002 23:18:25 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
> <goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
>>>>defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
>>>would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said that
>>>the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue a
>>>credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
>>>credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
>>>refused because she would not give out her last name.
>>>
> 
> Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.  I bought a printer, asked the
> salesperson if I needed a cable, he said I did and handed me a cable
> to buy.  Turned out he gave me the wrong cable.  (I hooked up the
> printer with another cable from a different store.)
> 
> So I took the original cable back.  Counter girl gave me a bitchy hard
> time, at first refused to take the return (and I had the original
> receipt) because the UPC on the package was ripped from opening the
> package, and would not scan.  I suggested she scan a package of the
> same product which stood nearby, but NO she insisted she had to scan
> *my* package and since it wouldn't scan I could not get my money back.
> 
> 
> She then told me I was wrong for having allowed the UPC to be ripped
> because it must be preserved for a return and I should know never to
> allow the UPC to be ripped.  For cryin' out loud I had the receipt.
> 
> Finally a more senior manager came over and told her to just give the
> credit to get rid of me.
> 
> -v.


This sucks.

Great, now we all know to shop at the CompUSA in Philly but it seems the
prevailing policy, though technicaly legit, is employed harshly.

I, also, have had my share of trouble and hassle free returns with them.  If
you read their returns policy (posted in the lobby of both of the local
stores here so perhaps elsewhere as well) you will find a serveral things
that would make you question shopping there.

My old boss used to say, "The fish stinks from the head."  meaning that as
does the boss so do the employees.  Since you clearly do not need to know
anything about computers to work there, what must the qualifications for
management be.  Beyond a bad attitude.



"Me" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZjRy8.156654$XV5.14542021@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>
> <NoSpam@Antartica.net> wrote in message
> news:3ccce709.59073152@news.easynews.com...
> > Last week, I purchased a wireless Ethernet kit from CompUSA here in
> > Redlands, Calif, for a total of approximately $280.
> >
> > This is a rather high price since the same kit goes for about $200
> > from online stores. However, I didn't want to wait for shipping, so I
> > just drove to my local CompUSA and got it there.
> >
> > Worked on it all weekend, and part of last week and couldn't make it
> > work. After numerous calls to both the original manufacturer and
> > CompUSA support, I finally gave up. The manufacturer concluded that
> > one or more of the parts were failing, and suggested I take it back to
> > the store.
> >
> > When I tried to get my money back CompUSA charged me 15% because the
> > boxes had been opened. This is a total of $42 for those who don't want
> > to do the math.
> >
> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>
> Wow! Did you talk with a manager? I have been doing business with a
> variety of CompUSA stores in the Philadelphia area for many years. I
> return an average of one or two items a year there and not once have I
> ever received a hassle with a return or been charged a restocking fee.
> For example, three months ago, I returned an opened printer that just
> did not work. I didn't even pack up the printer properly. I just dumped
> the pieces in the original box, presented my receipt and ask for a return
> and told the clerk it did not work. Fine, no problem.
>
> About a year ago, I bought at Netgear cable modem router. It would
> not work with both my computers; only one. After 12 weeks, I finally
> got around to returning it. I got my $120 back, turned around and bought
> a Linksys router from CompUSA on that same visit. I then found the
> same router at Best Buy for $20 less so I returned the router an hour
> later to CompUSA and they cheerfully returned my cash, no problem.
>
>
>

v <v.viverrid@verizon.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.  I bought a printer, asked the
>salesperson if I needed a cable, he said I did and handed me a cable
>to buy.  Turned out he gave me the wrong cable.  (I hooked up the
>printer with another cable from a different store.)

Under the Uniform Commercial Code (which is law in most states), 
this creates an implied "warranty of fitness for a particular 
purpose". The idea is that _if_ you ask the salesperson for help in 
making a purchasing decision, _and_ you rely on the help you get, 
_and_ the salesperson knows you're relying on his/her help, _then_ 
if the thing isn't right for the purpose described they have to take 
it back.

If you can't reasonably find out that it's wrong for the stated 
purpose until after you've opened it, that's their problem and not 
yours. The Uniform Commercial Code also gives consumers a right of 
inspection before accepting purchased goods.

See /Bad Software/ by Cem Kaner. While his focus is software, the 
principles he explains are rooted in the UCC and are not specific to 
software.

But since fortunately you actually did get your refund, you don't 
have a grievance as far as the law is concerned. Aggravation and 
inconvenience are generally not items the law compensates you for.

-- 
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
                                   http://oakroadsystems.com

On Tue, 07 May 2002 16:49:04 GMT, v.viverrid@verizon.net (v) wrote:

>On Mon, 6 May 2002 23:18:25 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
><goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
>>> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>>> >
>>>I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
>>> would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said that
>>> the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue a
>>> credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
>>> credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
>>> refused because she would not give out her last name.
>
>Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.   

Since we're telling CompUSA stories...
 
Many years ago I was in a store listening to a salesperson lie to
someone.  The customer and his son wanted to run Windows 95 on a P90,
upgrading from Win 3.1.  I listened to the salesman lie and lie and
lie, trying to talk him into buying a new PC, and finally could stand
it no longer.  I interrupted.  

"Excuse me sir, but I've been doing computer support for fifteen years
and what this guy is telling you is wrong.  Win 95 will run just fine
on your PC, as long as you have enough hard drive space and enough
memory.  Your best bet is to format your hard drive..."  The salesman
tried to interrupt and I held up my hand - "Excuse me, we're talking,
and you are obviously unfamiliar with the software and hardware
combination we're discussing.  I, on the other hand, have run it for
years."  

That was one pissed off salesman!  And the customer left without
buying anything, probably going off to buy from someone who wasn't
going to lie to him.  



----
Should Congress Kill the Computer Industry? 
http://www.davehitt.com/march02/fritz.html

Dave Hitt wrote:

> On Tue, 07 May 2002 16:49:04 GMT, v.viverrid@verizon.net (v) wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Mon, 6 May 2002 23:18:25 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
>><goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
>>>>>defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
>>>>would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said that
>>>>the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue a
>>>>credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
>>>>credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
>>>>refused because she would not give out her last name.
>>>>
>>Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.   
>>
> 
> Since we're telling CompUSA stories...
>  
> Many years ago I was in a store listening to a salesperson lie to
> someone.  The customer and his son wanted to run Windows 95 on a P90,
> upgrading from Win 3.1.  I listened to the salesman lie and lie and
> lie, trying to talk him into buying a new PC, and finally could stand
> it no longer.  I interrupted.  
> 
> "Excuse me sir, but I've been doing computer support for fifteen years
> and what this guy is telling you is wrong.  Win 95 will run just fine
> on your PC, as long as you have enough hard drive space and enough
> memory.  Your best bet is to format your hard drive..."  The salesman
> tried to interrupt and I held up my hand - "Excuse me, we're talking,
> and you are obviously unfamiliar with the software and hardware
> combination we're discussing.  I, on the other hand, have run it for
> years."  
> 
> That was one pissed off salesman!  And the customer left without
> buying anything, probably going off to buy from someone who wasn't
> going to lie to him.  


Boy, you sure have gotten THAT figured out!

I quit going to CompUSA, except when absolutely necessary. They are the only
ones here who have a restocking fee and their prices aren't any lower than
Best Buy.

"v" <v.viverrid@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3cd803ba.17428172@news.bellatlantic.net...
> On Mon, 6 May 2002 23:18:25 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
> <goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
> >> > defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
> >> >
> >>I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
> >> would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said
that
> >> the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue
a
> >> credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
> >> credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
> >> refused because she would not give out her last name.
>
> Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.  I bought a printer, asked the
> salesperson if I needed a cable, he said I did and handed me a cable
> to buy.  Turned out he gave me the wrong cable.  (I hooked up the
> printer with another cable from a different store.)
>
> So I took the original cable back.  Counter girl gave me a bitchy hard
> time, at first refused to take the return (and I had the original
> receipt) because the UPC on the package was ripped from opening the
> package, and would not scan.  I suggested she scan a package of the
> same product which stood nearby, but NO she insisted she had to scan
> *my* package and since it wouldn't scan I could not get my money back.
>
>
> She then told me I was wrong for having allowed the UPC to be ripped
> because it must be preserved for a return and I should know never to
> allow the UPC to be ripped.  For cryin' out loud I had the receipt.
>
> Finally a more senior manager came over and told her to just give the
> credit to get rid of me.
>
> -v.

Ben Hoff wrote:

> I quit going to CompUSA, except when absolutely necessary. They are the only
> ones here who have a restocking fee and their prices aren't any lower than
> Best Buy.
> 
> "v" <v.viverrid@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3cd803ba.17428172@news.bellatlantic.net...
> 
>>On Mon, 6 May 2002 23:18:25 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
>><goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>How in God's name are you supposed to find out whether a part is
>>>>>defective unless you OPEN THE BOX, is beyond me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I once made a return to CompUSA. I wasn't charged extra, however they
>>>>would not issue a credit on my credit card there and then. They said
>>>>
> that
> 
>>>>the paper work has to go to the office the next day and they will issue
>>>>
> a
> 
>>>>credit. I asked the person to just note this, that I would be getting a
>>>>credit, and to sign their name on the back of my paper work. The girl
>>>>refused because she would not give out her last name.
>>>>
>>Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.  I bought a printer, asked the
>>salesperson if I needed a cable, he said I did and handed me a cable
>>to buy.  Turned out he gave me the wrong cable.  (I hooked up the
>>printer with another cable from a different store.)
>>
>>So I took the original cable back.  Counter girl gave me a bitchy hard
>>time, at first refused to take the return (and I had the original
>>receipt) because the UPC on the package was ripped from opening the
>>package, and would not scan.  I suggested she scan a package of the
>>same product which stood nearby, but NO she insisted she had to scan
>>*my* package and since it wouldn't scan I could not get my money back.
>>
>>
>>She then told me I was wrong for having allowed the UPC to be ripped
>>because it must be preserved for a return and I should know never to
>>allow the UPC to be ripped.  For cryin' out loud I had the receipt.
>>
>>Finally a more senior manager came over and told her to just give the
>>credit to get rid of me.
>>
>>-v.
>>
> 
> 

Goog idea.

On Wed, 8 May 2002 23:53:18 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
<goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:

>-:I quit going to CompUSA, except when absolutely necessary. They are the only
>-:ones here who have a restocking fee and their prices aren't any lower than
>-:Best Buy.


If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
ALSO has a restocking fee.


--
This space left intentionally blank

In misc.consumers.frugal-living Bob Ward <bob.ward@verizon.net> wrote:


> If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
> what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
> ALSO has a restocking fee.

Bestbuy only has a restocking fee on opened notebook computers,
camcorders, digital cameras, and radar detectors.  This is to prevent
scumsucking looser cusutomers from using the store as a free rental
service on items where this is a likely possibility.  There is no
restocking fee if the item is defective.

Dan

-- 

COTS / Grimstari - Separating the "Crazy, haha" from the "Crazy, ohoh"

		--BHZ

People are worried about piddly restocking fees and defective computer
merchandise when you all should be worried about likely your biggest
purchase ever, your home.  If you bought a home located in a homeowners
association, you just bought the most expensive defective consumer product
ever!!    And you can't just return it.   And you have no say whatsoever in
those ever increasing HOA dues and unexpected and unlimited special
assessments.  Forget about the store managers - the HOA managers are brutal.
They will claim they sent you late fee, lien and foreclosure notices without
you ever having seen them!  And there is no mandatory disclosure about the
defects in this HOA housing product.  None!

Buyer beware takes on a whole new dimension when you buy into housing with a
homeowners association.

check out the following website where every banner and logo will link you to
another dimension of HOA related news and information.  Don't miss it.
Better yet, don't miss paying those monthly HOA dues...within 90 days, an
HOA can begin foreclosure proceedings on your home.

THE HOMEOWNERS GATEWAY
http://members.cox.net/terracewatch/HomeownerActivism.htm


"STENDEC" <dan@angband.org> wrote in message
news:abekn4$oeh$1@news-int.gatech.edu...
> In misc.consumers.frugal-living Bob Ward <bob.ward@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> > If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
> > what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
> > ALSO has a restocking fee.
>
> Bestbuy only has a restocking fee on opened notebook computers,
> camcorders, digital cameras, and radar detectors.  This is to prevent
> scumsucking looser cusutomers from using the store as a free rental
> service on items where this is a likely possibility.  There is no
> restocking fee if the item is defective.
>
> Dan
>
> --
>
> COTS / Grimstari - Separating the "Crazy, haha" from the "Crazy, ohoh"
>
> --BHZ
>

Bob Ward wrote:

> On Wed, 8 May 2002 23:53:18 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
> <goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>-:I quit going to CompUSA, except when absolutely necessary. They are the only
>>-:ones here who have a restocking fee and their prices aren't any lower than
>>-:Best Buy.
>>
> 
> 
> If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
> what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
> ALSO has a restocking fee.
> 
> 
> --
> This space left intentionally blank
> 

Good point.

STENDEC wrote:

> In misc.consumers.frugal-living Bob Ward <bob.ward@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
>>what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
>>ALSO has a restocking fee.
>>
> 
> Bestbuy only has a restocking fee on opened notebook computers,
> camcorders, digital cameras, and radar detectors.  This is to prevent
> scumsucking looser cusutomers from using the store as a free rental
> service on items where this is a likely possibility.  There is no
> restocking fee if the item is defective.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 

That makes sense.

Rico wrote:
> 
> STENDEC wrote:
> 
> > In misc.consumers.frugal-living Bob Ward <bob.ward@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
> >>what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
> >>ALSO has a restocking fee.
> >>
> >
> > Bestbuy only has a restocking fee on opened notebook computers,
> > camcorders, digital cameras, and radar detectors.  This is to prevent
> > scumsucking looser cusutomers from using the store as a free rental
> > service on items where this is a likely possibility.  There is no
> > restocking fee if the item is defective.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> 
> That makes sense.

Hey Rico, you've made 3 posts in this thread and all of them
have been 2-3 word posts which simply say that you think that
someone else had a good idea. How about just nodding your head
in agreement the next time and not telling the rest of the word
that you agree with someone's post, ok?

Thanks...

maybe this will help you both.  there are a lot more than just a few words
here and if you live in or a planning to buy a house, condo, whatever, with
a homeowners association, you better think twice!!!  read these thousands of
words very very carefully.................

You are Now Leaving the American Zone.......

http://members.cox.net/concernedhomeowners/concernedhomeowners.htm
http://members.cox.net/terracewatch/HomeownerActivism.htm
http://ahrc.com




<invalid@ no.net> wrote in message
news:ad7qdu8t1pisjv37bdmjj7pu4gcrud2ao9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 May 2002 07:44:30 GMT, Bill Rubin <billrubin@prodigy.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Rico wrote:
> >>
> >> STENDEC wrote:
> >>
> >> > In misc.consumers.frugal-living Bob Ward <bob.ward@verizon.net>
wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
> >> >>what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
> >> >>ALSO has a restocking fee.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Bestbuy only has a restocking fee on opened notebook computers,
> >> > camcorders, digital cameras, and radar detectors.  This is to prevent
> >> > scumsucking looser cusutomers from using the store as a free rental
> >> > service on items where this is a likely possibility.  There is no
> >> > restocking fee if the item is defective.
> >> >
> >> > Dan
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> That makes sense.
> >
> >Hey Rico, you've made 3 posts in this thread and all of them
> >have been 2-3 word posts which simply say that you think that
> >someone else had a good idea. How about just nodding your head
> >in agreement the next time and not telling the rest of the word
> >that you agree with someone's post, ok?
> >
> >Thanks...
>
> That is typical for 'RICO' s/he seldom if ever makes any substantial
> contribution to ANY discussion they participate in regardless of the
> subject matter - if they are not making a two or three word comment of
> endorsement or agreement, they will cut and paste a URL and offer it
> without comment.
>
> RICO is incapable of original thought!

"P.Flamingo" wrote:
> 
> maybe this will help you both.  there are a lot more than just a few words
> here and if you live in or a planning to buy a house, condo, whatever, with
> a homeowners association, you better think twice!!!  read these thousands of
> words very very carefully.................
> 
> You are Now Leaving the American Zone.......
> 
> http://members.cox.net/concernedhomeowners/concernedhomeowners.htm
> http://members.cox.net/terracewatch/HomeownerActivism.htm
> http://ahrc.com

I've never felt too much sympathy towards people who sign HOAs and then
get pissed when they try to weasel out of them and fail.  After looking
through a couple of those web sites I feel even less sympathy.

Read the contract carefully before you sign.  Don't sign if you don't
think you can live under the restrictions.  Don't sign if you don't
understand the contract.  Get legal advice if you have any questions.

invalid@ wrote:

> On Sat, 11 May 2002 07:44:30 GMT, Bill Rubin <billrubin@prodigy.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Rico wrote:
>>
>>>STENDEC wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In misc.consumers.frugal-living Bob Ward <bob.ward@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
>>>>>what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
>>>>>ALSO has a restocking fee.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Bestbuy only has a restocking fee on opened notebook computers,
>>>>camcorders, digital cameras, and radar detectors.  This is to prevent
>>>>scumsucking looser cusutomers from using the store as a free rental
>>>>service on items where this is a likely possibility.  There is no
>>>>restocking fee if the item is defective.
>>>>
>>>>Dan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>That makes sense.
>>>
>>Hey Rico, you've made 3 posts in this thread and all of them
>>have been 2-3 word posts which simply say that you think that
>>someone else had a good idea. How about just nodding your head
>>in agreement the next time and not telling the rest of the word
>>that you agree with someone's post, ok?
>>
>>Thanks...
>>
> 
> That is typical for 'RICO' s/he seldom if ever makes any substantial
> contribution to ANY discussion they participate in regardless of the
> subject matter - if they are not making a two or three word comment of
> endorsement or agreement, they will cut and paste a URL and offer it
> without comment.
> 
> RICO is incapable of original thought!


That's not true!

"Bill Seurer" <Bill@seurer.net> wrote in message
news:3CDE7AE9.288DD1EA@seurer.net...
> "P.Flamingo" wrote:
> >
> > maybe this will help you both.  there are a lot more than just a few
words
> > here and if you live in or a planning to buy a house, condo, whatever,
with
> > a homeowners association, you better think twice!!!  read these
thousands of
> > words very very carefully.................
> >
> > You are Now Leaving the American Zone.......
> >
> > http://members.cox.net/concernedhomeowners/concernedhomeowners.htm
> > http://members.cox.net/terracewatch/HomeownerActivism.htm
> > http://ahrc.com
>
> I've never felt too much sympathy towards people who sign HOAs and then
> get pissed when they try to weasel out of them and fail.  After looking
> through a couple of those web sites I feel even less sympathy.
>
> Read the contract carefully before you sign.  Don't sign if you don't
> think you can live under the restrictions.  Don't sign if you don't
> understand the contract.  Get legal advice if you have any questions.

where do the homeowners "sign" for this "contract" you refer to.....

show me one set of ccr's that requires homeowners to sign and initial every
page and to sign that they have read and understood what they have just
signed - that includes all applicable civil and corporate codes.

doesn't appear that you comprehend what you read.  there is often no
requirement that homeowners SIGN the hoa "contract" you refer to. sometimes
this so called contract just appears in the mail weeks later.  it can change
before you have even had a chance to move in.  but more than anything, there
is no guarantee in this "contract" that the "elected" board of neighbors
will follow the law.  and if they don't follow the law, they are backed by
multi millions of dollars in D&O liability insurance paid for by the
homeowners.   some contract.

so you advise prospective hoa homebuyers to get legal advice?  why the hell
do homeowners need legal advice before buying into an hoa. are there
problems there?  of course there are.

actually, that is great advice.

WARNING to homebuyers, before you buy into anything that even closely
resembles an association like condos, gated communities, retirement
villages, or anything where the street entrance to the neighborhood changes
suddenly from concrete city streets to cheap asphalt,  etc......demand a
copy of every page of the current ccr's, all recorded amendments,  the
applicable civil and corporate code, the rules by laws and regulations, two
years worth of minutes of meetings, five years worth of financials, take it
all to a lawyer, have them review it  (this will take hours and will cost
you a lot of money) and THEN, ask the lawyer if they think it is a good idea
to buy into a homeowners association.  ask the lawyer if there is any risk
involved.  ask the lawyer what happens if you lose your job, can't work, and
can't afford that $300 per month hoa dues.  ask if the hoa can fine, assess,
lien and foreclose on your home without your day in court....ask ask ask...

one thing for sure - in hard times  you would be better off to pay those
dues before you pay your mortgage because the hoa may be allowed to
non-judicially foreclose on your home long before the bank can.  sometimes
in as little as 90 days.

have fun in hoa life!!

The downside is that a store that makes it easy to return merchandise
has to resell that same merchandise as new.  So you increase your chances
of buying previously-handled-and-returned merchandise.  That's one of the
"benefits" of the liberal return policy.

Ching Tai wrote:

> This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> a return fee.
>
> However, I live in silicon valley where there are
> many no-return-fee stores that is also cheap.
>

Stan Brown wrote:

> v <v.viverrid@verizon.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
> 
>>Hey, I have a COMPUSA story also.  I bought a printer, asked the
>>salesperson if I needed a cable, he said I did and handed me a cable
>>to buy.  Turned out he gave me the wrong cable.  (I hooked up the
>>printer with another cable from a different store.)
>>
> 
> Under the Uniform Commercial Code (which is law in most states), 
> this creates an implied "warranty of fitness for a particular 
> purpose". The idea is that _if_ you ask the salesperson for help in 
> making a purchasing decision, _and_ you rely on the help you get, 
> _and_ the salesperson knows you're relying on his/her help, _then_ 
> if the thing isn't right for the purpose described they have to take 
> it back.
> 
> If you can't reasonably find out that it's wrong for the stated 
> purpose until after you've opened it, that's their problem and not 
> yours. The Uniform Commercial Code also gives consumers a right of 
> inspection before accepting purchased goods.


Housing consumers never find out what's wrong with common ownership 
developments until they've bought their 'own' home in one, and if 
they've bought one for the purpose of getting the protective 
insulation homebuyers expect to get with owning 'their own' 
home, they're in for a shock. Some of these places are advertised as 
carefree living. That's tantamount to consumer fraud, IMO.

There's more useful consumer information on a candy bar, than what COD 
homebuyers get. The real estate industry opposes timely, adequate 
disclosure on the grounds that "it would hurt sales," and 'your 
representatives' do what that industry tells them to.


> See /Bad Software/ by Cem Kaner. While his focus is software, the 
> principles he explains are rooted in the UCC and are not specific to 
> software.
> 
> But since fortunately you actually did get your refund, you don't 
> have a grievance as far as the law is concerned. Aggravation and 
> inconvenience are generally not items the law compensates you for.

Best Buy does not have a restocking fee in Las Vegas, except possibly for
hard drives and other like peripherals. They have refunded money to me on
opened software, but only during the period after Christmas.

"Bob Ward" <bob.ward@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:osdldu499lvmfgi2lea2c5pa5jqs857okf@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 May 2002 23:53:18 -0700, "Ben Hoff"
> <goodidea1950@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >-:I quit going to CompUSA, except when absolutely necessary. They are the
only
> >-:ones here who have a restocking fee and their prices aren't any lower
than
> >-:Best Buy.
>
>
> If CompUSA is the only store in your area that has a restocking fee,
> what is the point of comparing their prices with Best Buy?  Best Buy
> ALSO has a restocking fee.
>
>
> --
> This space left intentionally blank

A restocking fee indicates that they restock items and sell them again. If
they are defective they are returned but I see no evidence that CompUSA
doesn't sell as much not-perfectly-knew equipment as anyone else.

"Mike Berger" <berger@shout.net> wrote in message
news:3CDFF33F.AEFCD00F@shout.net...
> The downside is that a store that makes it easy to return merchandise
> has to resell that same merchandise as new.  So you increase your chances
> of buying previously-handled-and-returned merchandise.  That's one of the
> "benefits" of the liberal return policy.
>
> Ching Tai wrote:
>
> > This way, I reward the no-return-fee AND cheapest
> > stores.  I hate to have all those return-fee stores
> > go out-of-business :)  But I also hate to have to pay
> > a return fee.
> >
> > However, I live in silicon valley where there are
> > many no-return-fee stores that is also cheap.
> >
>

your problems with comp usa pale in comparison to the financial risk you
could encounter buying into and living in a homeowners association......
read this!

You can't afford NOT TO BUY THIS BOOK!

SCROLL DOWN FOR THE ORDER FORM!!

Villa Appalling! is a MUST read for all those who own, live, are
about to buy, sell, or know someone who owns a deed-restricted
property in a common interest development, planned community, planned
development, master-planned community, etc.

It is a real "Behind the Scenes" look at all the topics you want to
know about -- it includes candid interviews and surprising candor.
Buyers, Sellers, and Homeowners => Learn how to protect yourself.

Just when you thought:

Your swimming pool was an "amenity" = Read section: Myth of
Amenities

Your condo, townhouse, house was an "investment" = Read section:
Myth of Investment

Your purchase in a CID was "carefree" = Read section: Myth of
Carefree Living

Your purchase was "affordable" = Read section: Myth of Affordability

Your purchase buys you "leisure time" = Read section: Myth of
Leisure and the Selling of Free Time

Ever wonder how apathy occurs? = Read section: Anatomy of Apathy

Ever wonder how your health is affected in a CID = Read section:
Dissecting the Cost of Perpetual Maintenance, Noise, Pollution,
Impediments, Inconvenience and Illness.

Ever wonder what happened to the "shared responsibilities" you
thought you were buying into when you bought your home in a CID? =
Read section: The Myth of Volunteering

Ever wonder why the industry insists on using the term "community?"
= Read section: The Myth of Community and Commonality-Mandatory
Sharing of Attitudes and Attributes

Wonder how all this affects YOU? = Read section: Toxic Turmoil and
section: Dissecting the Cost of Perpetual Maintenance, Noise,
Pollution, Impediments, Inconvenience and Illness

Wonder how it all got this way? = Read section: A Psychological
Autopsy of Common Interest Developments, Planned Communities and
Homeowner Associations

Read about Proxy Nullification.

Read about Enemies: Number One, Number Two and Number Three!

There is a difference if you own in a CID and die in one: Wonder
what happens when you die in a CID? Read sections: Dying With a
Renter or Roommate Still in Your House or Unit; Section: Charities;
Section: Dying Without a Will; Section: Dying With a Will;
Section: Dying With a Trust and Leaving Your House or Unit to a
Relative

Here are some other sections that might interest you:
Creative Accounting
The Myth of Enforcement
The Mistake of Mediation and/or Arbitration
The Myth of Oversight
The Myth of an Ombudsman
Homeowner Nullification
The Cost of Psychological Recognition: Applause and the Obligatory
Plaque

DO NOT MISS THIS SECTION: The Reality About Your New Appalling!
Neighbors

. . . and so much MORE!

copy and cut here to order VILLA APPALLING! at a special
pre-publication price
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ORDER FORM: PRE-PUBLICATION ONLY

NOTICE: THIS FORM AND PRICE EXPIRES: JUNE 15, 2002

Book Title: Villa Appalling! Destroying the Myth of Affordable
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By: Donie Vanitzian and Stephen Glassman
Authors of 'Common Interest Living' in the Los Angeles Times

A Textbook for Understanding Common Interest Developments,
Homeowner Associations and Planned Communities
----------------------------------------------------------------

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HOA'S? What the heck is that?

In article <ikVH8.104808$UV4.200459@rwcrnsc54>, suzn ruminated:
> HOA'S? What the heck is that?

"Home Owner's Association". The culmination of the Libertarian's pipe
dream of "voluntary associations". Forced down our throats by city
planning departments that demand common basins for handling "storm
water runoff" and HUD regulations that prohibit FHA financing unless
there is a "home owners association" to care for that common
ground. The problem with HOA's is that they invariably turn into
corrupt enterprises aimed more at enriching the cronies of the HOA
board than at doing the limited job they were chartered to do, causing
HOA fees to skyrocket far beyond what's necessary to cut the grass and
occasionally clean the drainage, and the papers you signed when you
bought the house say you must pay whatever they say you must pay -- or
else they shall bring down the full power and force of the law upon
you for breach of contract, including liens upon your house for
whatever "fines" they whip up out of thin air for whatever illusionary
"CC&R violations" they can invent for you (such as leaving your trash
can out in front of your house for one minute past 5:01PM on a trash
day). 

The problem is one of power, and the kinds of people who seek power,
and their ability to use the power of government to enforce contracts
that are not voluntary in any way (since city planning departments
require these commons for all new developments to handle storm water
runoff, and since HUD rules require an HOA for all developments with
commons). I was astounded to find that in one particular area of this
city, each and every home is assessed over $150 per month to cut a few
strips of grass and water a few trees and occasionally clean out a
storm drain and rake some rocks. Where does the money go? Nobody
knows. Home owner's associations are generally not covered by state
public records laws, since, though they were (indirectly) mandated by
government entities, they aren't "officially" government entities in
the eyes of the law. This ability to operate in secrecy is the
creepiest part of the whole "home owner's association" phenomenon.
And while the CC&R's say that they must announce HOA board meetings,
"official" meetings only happen once a year in some cases -- everything
else is handled informally via back alley deals and phone calls. 

And the fun part is that if you try to sue a corrupt home owner's
association board for wasting your money on cronies of the board
members (such as lawn contracts for vastly overbloated prices that
result in side-pocket deals and kickbacks to board members), you're
the one who ends up paying for it via increased assessments (not to
mention that they'll slap liens on your house for every imaginary
violation they can dream of before you can say "boo"). You see, you
"voluntarily" signed a contract that said that board members cannot be
directly sued because they are indemnified for any actions they take
in the name of the HOA. So you can only sue the HOA itself -- i.e.,
yourself. Isn't that nice?

-- 
Eric Lee Green       eric@badtux.org     http://badtux.org
    GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg

eric@badtux.org (Eric Lee Green) wrote in message news:<slrnaf0a9h.c36.eric@badtux.org>...
> In article <ikVH8.104808$UV4.200459@rwcrnsc54>, suzn ruminated:
> > HOA'S? What the heck is that?
> 
> 
> The problem is one of power, and the kinds of people who seek power,
> and their ability to use the power 

Eric,

The problem with homeowners associations, like all elected positions,
is that the only people who will run for office are those who
shouldn't.

Ken

threeriversguy_2000@yahoo.com (Ken) wrote in
news:971f0a.0205260830.493f8cb7@posting.google.com: 

> The problem with homeowners associations, like all elected positions,
> is that the only people who will run for office are those who
> shouldn't.

Yep.

-- 
Ro Wiijkejak
Nerp Herders of America